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are the NOL's worth something to novelty capital? is that what's going on here?
$PRZM still has no cash but just gave away ~85% of the company for some amorphous metals patents--anyone know anything about the potential here? market doesn't seem to hate it as much as the prospects for the legacy patents?!
http://www.nasdaq.com/press-release/prism-technologies-group-enters-into-asset-purchase-agreement-with-amorphous-technologies-20171020-00224
@komani: so now i'm confused--this interpretation seems to indicate that sprint is completely off the hook??
https://www.law360.com/articles/952316/sprint-relieved-of-32-2m-judgment-after-prism-ip-axed?ts_pk=a611ad83-1c97-44bd-be3c-0d7abf4016ec
thanks @Komani.
a helpful perspective.
what about the rest of the patents?
nothing there at all that's worth litigating?
(or at least firing off a few letters?)
ps: i was under the impression there's a also a few million in interest,
as sprint has dragged this on for so long!
& i assume the interest on the first $16.5 million will also go to przm?!
@Komani--do you still expect przm to prevail against sprint despite the sell off today?
has anything really changed?
Law360, New York (July 25, 2017, 9:40 PM EDT) -- A Federal Circuit panel Monday declined Tuesday to recall a decision affirming a $30 million infringement verdict against Sprint Spectrum in a suit from Prism Technologies LLC over two network security patents, ruling that it would not impact Sprint’s motion at the district court level.
So how come przm didnt react to this?
caf posted the recording a week or so ago--thought the judge was a bit sceptical of t-mobile but not as conclusive ad sprint hearing
Cool. I like this. Obviously PRZM isnt going to go out of business, no matter how long Sprint stalls for time, because they will get the money eventually. But the finances are frail and the company has already wasted ~25cents/share on the micro-cap equivalent of payday loans in its necessary efforts to keep the lights on....
Thanks Alvato--agree with your points.
Hope that the court reacts accordingly and Sprint is forced to pay up!
Has PRZM filed motion seeking to collect the money yet?
Good.
So less of an advantage to going to supremes re delaying payment?!
(you saw the "going concern" statements in the przm 10k--Sprint must just be hoping they go bust).
Sprint may also have bigger issues for the supremes later and want to keep their powder dry??
Nice. Thanks for heads up.
Was there an additional interest finding?
Disappointing to see zero volume.
Potential will hopefully start to sink in over time.
Interesting.
So if they do try to escalate to the supremes does that mean they won't have to pay til there's a decision there?
@Alvato: interesting--are there even any avenues available to them to stay that issuance.
Havent they now definitively lost in that channel--ie is a plea to the supremes the last ditch defense for them?
@eharny: both will go live later in the year after Sprint has exhausted all avenues for appeal (ie Supremes).
Timing couldn't be better.
Over $0.90 today: I guess PRZM will continue to leak upwards towards (highly conservative) fair value of $2/share as the deadline continues to approach for receipt of the ~$35 million (including accrued interest pre and post judgement) from Sprint. However we still have outstanding lawsuits against Verizon (the BIG ONE), US Cellular & T-Mobile. Once the Supremes refuse Sprint's motion to appeal (well over 95% of those motions are denied & the majority of those that are heard are affirmed), the HUGE catalyst could well be a decent offer to settle from T-Mobile, granted that the Sprint judgement & judges opinion on the same patents T-Mobile is arguing as invalid has been ensconced as "precedential"....
If PRZM nails the trifecta of wireless carriers above, the stock is worth over $10/share with more patents to be monetized in inventory!
Pretty much what you said, @Alvato--with the added key date that Sprint has til August 7th to make the appeal to move the case to Supremes (though I think that the CAFC judgement was written in such a way to make that appeal d.o.a). Will the post judgement interest take us to $35 million? Guess we find out on May 15th?!
Prism Tech. reports Federal Circuit rejects Sprint's (S) request for rehearing
5:36 PM ET 5/8/17 | Briefing.com
Court of Appeals for the Federal Circuit rejected a request by Sprint Spectrum LP d/b/a Sprint PCS for a rehearing of Sprint's appeal of the patent infringement verdict in favor of its subsidiary, Prism Technologies. In June 2015, a jury in the United States District Court for the District of Nebraska found that the accused Sprint network systems and methods infringe multiple claims of U.S. Patent Nos. 8,387,155 and 8,127,345 and Prism LLC was awarded trial damages of $30 million. Prism LLC was also awarded $2 million in prejudgment interest and will be entitled to post-judgment interest in an amount to be determined. The Federal Circuit will issue its mandate on May 15, 2017, transferring jurisdiction of the case back to the District Court. Sprint, however, has until August 7, 2017 to appeal the case to the U.S. Supreme Court, which is not obligated to accept the appeal.
Perfect--thanks.
Love the way you're thinking @Alvato!
Great--thanks for the info. Looks like it was worth 10 cents on the stock price so far today--and a little more buying than usual!
Someone posted on stocktwits on May 3 that Sprint had filed a "confidential petition" on April 5 "for a rehearing or rehearing en banc". So i assume that this is the petition which was denied & that the screws are tightening.
Any more news about the T-Mobile appeal & whether Sprint will pay before then or not?
thanks--sounds good!
Question for wiser legal minds than me re upcoming T-Mobile vs PRZM oral arguments:
http://www.cafc.uscourts.gov/argument/upcoming-oral-arguments
Panel H: Wednesday, June 07, 2017, 10:00 A.M., Courtroom Courtroom 402
16-2031 DCT Prism Technologies LLC v. T-Mobile USA, Inc. [argued]
Is there any potential advantage (or disadvantage) to Sprint in waiting to see how this goes?
Or will they be flat out of time by then?
There is some risk & stranger things have happened.
But i'd say the odds of en banc or supreme reversal are low-mid single digits at best
Especially as the opinion was so tightly written to cover all possible loopholes ;)
So I'd say the issue with the stock is simply that it's not widely held or followed.
Plus a lot of daytraders were in it & got bored with it.
I continue to believe its worth over $2/share with the S cash & interest.
What gets really interesting next though is what Verizon decides to do.
Granted the Sprint precedent, they would be advised to settle.
With a higher market share they have much much more at risk than S
As well as being up against a precedent that will likely be hard to wriggle out of.
If they have any sense they'll settle quickly rather than taunting PRZM to go all the way again.
Then there's also a ragbag of other patents some of which appear to have promise that I haven't studied in detail.
Honestly if Verizon had any sense they'd offer to buy the whole company for ~$50 million while they still can.
I believe that would make the stock worth ~$5/share after the remaining payments due to the old Prism shareholders--I'm sure everyone would be happy with that if they can close it before the S decision;)
The challenge with these plays as you know is that they're binary "all or nothing" situations.
But the odds here look very good indeed!
So I guess Sprint's strategy is to just keep making the same point over and over again in the hope that will trigger a different result?
https://www.law360.com/articles/910626/sprint-seeks-new-fed-circ-review-of-30m-patent-trial-loss
Seems unlikely
Got it. Thanks @alvato.
I like your best case but am guessing Sprint will wait til the last possible minute to pay up--though I doubt that they'll come through with an actual appeal as that might just be throwing good money after bad.
Great to know. Thanks Alvato. So does that mean that if Sprint does not file for en banc or supreme court reconsideration by April 6 they have to pay up?
Good to know: thanks @Alvato.
So can we assume that the 3/15 correction of the typo in the judge's opinion doesn't "reset the clock" on that 30 day time limit for Sprint?
@KOmani--weren't we expecting a final determination today?
Looks like the judge is focusing on making the position bullet proof to pre-empt an appeal.
It was already very tightly written to dismiss all of Sprint's objections.
Last week he even refiled it just to correct a typo:
http://www.cafc.uscourts.gov/opinions-orders?populate=16-1456&field_origin_value=All&field_report_type_value=All&field_date_dropdown=date_range
Does that refile reset the final judgement clock?
Agreed.
Makes sense to me.
Unless Sprint has suddenly gained such an extraordinarily strong DC presence that they have some previously unforseen clout on appeal, I think it's safe to assume that this money is in the bank even though the stock price wont reflect it for another 3-4 weeks.
Thanks--that's quite helpful.
Does final judgement ever change from the written opinion?
Or does it generally just slap in the latest numbers for interest owed?
Got it. Nice. That would be a double opportunity--load up on more PRZM, if stock declines when Sprint decides to appeal/double whammy pay off when Sprint loses & is fined extra for wasting the court's time ;)
How long does Sprint have to announce that they're appealing? Is there a drop dead date for that?
How likely is that?
Didnt happen this time even though the judge called Sprint on a bunch of stuff...
Re risk: I'm assuming that the only risk at this point is that Sprint takes this to the Supreme Court, which of course they're entitled to do but which seems very unlikely based on the very watertight cafc opinion: http://www.cafc.uscourts.gov/sites/default/files/opinions-orders/16-1456.Opinion.3-2-2017.1.PDF
If Sprint did take it to the Supremes there's certainly the annoyance of further delay but their odds of winning are surely so low that they wont spend the money?! Is there a risk I'm missing here?
Don't sweat it. 50K shares at .95 is $$47,500 worth of stock.
Someone will pick that up when the stock's ready to move towards the value of its cash ($1.75-2.00)
After that next catalyst will be news on the telco patents: T-Mobile, US Cellular & Verizon.
Perhaps a $3-$4 target in the next 12 months is reasonable?
Finally there's the rest of the patents--would love to see some analysis of their value.
Agreed. The most bullish possible scenario would be if the S result scares T-Mobile into settling rather than taking their chances on PRZM's appeal. That would put a lot of pressure on Verizon!
Yup agree re binary events.
Gambling instinct--but as I said at the time the audio file of the court proceedings made the odds a lot better than 50/50.
That said I still couldn't bring myself to put more than ~3% of my portfolio into PRZM.
Im pretty sure PRZM stock will run up to the value of the cash once they announce S has paid the money;)
Makes sense.
It doesn't look like $S can go to the supremes.
So they'll hopefully just pay up?!
In which case the stock is trading at quite a bit under 1/2 its net cash after that event.
Not really brain surgery to see it can't go much lower than this.
But that the upside is a lot more than double granted the cases to come.
Of course you can't fix stupid.
But time usually helps a lot;)
PRZM just filed with the SEC
Basically just the PR release:
http://ir.przmgroup.com/secfiling.cfm?filingid=1437749-17-3946&CIK=1077370
Don't think we'll get any more right now.
Time for the rest of the daytraders to say goodbye:
so that the stock can start to drift up towards its underlying cash + patent suit prospects....
Thanks.
Yes Verizon is the big one.
It may have to wait til the T-Mobile appeal is decided.
But it may also be possible to get Verizon and/or US Cellular to settle before then.
I didn't factor the pre and post judgement interest into my calculations.
So that $1.50 - $2 short term range could perhaps be raised to $2 (depending on how the contingent payments treat interest--does that all go to PRZM or is it shared equally?)
More importantly, perhaps PRZM is now be big enough to attract informed analysis of the remaining patents?!
Very solid for $1.50 to $2 range once the dust has settled and the daytraders have gone.
But that's just based on the value of the Sprint cash. I'm not yet clear whether the 12 month target should be $3 or $5 or somewhere in between. though those numbers require more settlements like the AT&T settlement, plus someone needs to do a decent analysis of the other patents, now PRZM has the money to pursue them ....
yes pre pay cut salaries are reasonable----they were cut and will go back up.
the contingent liabilities on the old prism patents are a bigger issue than debt.
but the telco patents alone will more than blow through those.
and i believe PRZM gets something like 100% of the first $16 million and a 1/3 of the next $50 million.
then of course 100% thereafter. (rough #s/memory--check 10ks)
i think they owe a contingent $1.25m payment on the $500k loan they just took out.
not sure about additional debt. not a big #. $3 million tops?
Yup--it's not brain surgery to justify a stock price of $1.50--$2 right now.
Needs a smarter legal mind than me to calculate the real upside.
I've been saying $3 but I fear that's overly conservative on the telco patents and also puts a value of $0 on the rest of the patent portfolio, as they haven't been pursued vigorously enough yet for me to justify an opinion.