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Topic for the board. Friday 8/18/17, there were 16,738,922 shares traded. A year ago this month, there was a 1 for 500 reverse split. If you do the math, for someone to be able to trade 16.7 million shares after a 1 for 500 reverse split, they would had to have owned 8.37 BILLION shares prior to the split. But there weren't anywhere near that many shares outstanding prior to the split, according to the company's fianacials, posted on OTCmarkets.com. Only 689 million. Where did 8.37 BILLION split adjusted shares come from? Perhaps our CEO could tell us.....
P.S.: The Company's financials now say there are 108,251,762 outstanding common shares. After a 1 for 500 reverse split just last August. That would mean there were over 54 BILLION shares outstanding prior to the split, an astronomical number which would contradict the financials, OR....they are coming from somewhere else....
R.L.
Loyal, You ask why Vance isn't moving his product through Molen. The answer is that he doesn't need him, nor does any other producer of char, coal, or any other product. The true producers of product know the end users and have connections. Molen doesn't have exclusives with anyone to be their only source of procuring product. End users don't want to add any more layers of middle men than necessary, because middle men add cost to their price of product. You don't need Molen to sell to Europe, or to any users domestically. That's the problem with Vega not being able to produce. The company is only a marketing company, with no arrangements with any producer. He is selling a service that no one needs to purchase. That is why Vega has no orders or contracts. You can bet that if he was ever able to get an order, both the producer and end user would be trying to weed him out of the equation as soon as possible.
As for the machine being moved, yes, Vance is doing that in the mountains of Virginia, West Virginia and Kentucky. He has logging operations that produce timber waste that he then uses to produce bio-char. The logging provides all of the necessary equipment that the char operation needs. The machine doesn't need to be sheltered.
The question that needs to be answered is that if Molen truly has orders and contracts, and if Vencor truly had/has two machines, why wasn't any product produced and sold? Therein lies the problem, and the answer is why both stocks are worthless.
RL
Lincoln, Vega doesn't have a machine, nor does Vencor for that matter.
RL
Is Vencor on the list? Didn't think so.
Good to see Insidious. Best of luck to you.
RL
Insidious, I sure hope you can get in a visit to VCOR office in Colorado. Might prove beneficial, one way or the other. If there indeed is a VCOR plant in rural western Virginia, I would be willing to return the favor and pay a visit. I could do it in a day's time.
GLTA,
RL
No one ever said Vencor's bio-coal plant was located in Colorado.
MM is meeting with Gaspard this week and visiting the bio-coal plant that Vencor operates. It seems like the logical time to take pictures and video. Hopefully he can give an estimated ship date for the 3,000 ton order when he releases the pics. With the capacity that Vencor now has, the revenue should hit the books in the first quarter of 2015, which was the goal all along. The fact that we are making a higher profit % by using Vencor instead of Allendale is an added bonus.
GLTA,
RL
8hobbes9...I don't know the breakdown of profit between Vega and Vencor, but MM told me Vega will make more money selling bio-coal supplied by Vencor than by producing their own in a JV in Allendale. The reason, again, is the drastically lower cost of the Torretherm machine compared to Joe James NC State machine. An interesting note from Vencor's news release today..."Vega already has SEVERAL bio-coal supply deals IN HAND that they have been unable to supply. We look forward to filling those ORDERS as quickly as possible". Caps added by me. Apparently Molen has more than that 50k ton order in hand. This according to James Gaspard at Vencor in that news release today.
GLTA
RL
Gaspard at Vencor has built a better mousetrap as I mentioned two weeks ago. He has a machine that produces 5 ton/hr. at "a fraction of the cost of other machines". No need to spend 2 Million on Joe James machine from NC State and a 40% cut of profit. Vega will make more profit buying from Vencor at favorable price than by manufacturing it in a JV with Agri-Tech. Bottom line. It's because of the cost of the 2 machines. The NC State machine is now grossly overpriced. Molen saw that and changed direction, as you would expect when the facts change. Vega will be a marketing company, selling bio-coal and bio-char. Very low overhead. Favorable profit margins. And they can still build a plant with the lower cost machine if they ever choose to.
GLTA,
RL
Papamoka, Very wise post. People are so fixated on building a plant that they forget the initial objective was to make money. The plant in Allendale is now a non-quotient as you said. I mentioned a couple weeks ago that the Vencor PR stating that Gaspard had a machine that produced 5 tons/hr. "at a fraction of the cost of other machines currently available" was a game changer. What if that fraction is really small? What if Molen can get a machine for less than a million? What if Molen can buy his bio-coal from Vencor cheaper than he can produce it in Allendale? You can't blame Molen for switching gears if a better opportunity to make money has presented itself. Remember that Joe James' company Agri-Tech markets the NC State machine, and he is probably married to it for that reason. He wouldn't want to have a bio-coal plant that used a competitor's machine. Not good advertising. When you see a pic of that machine, do you honestly see 5 million dollars? And why would Molen want to pay for a machine that is now grossly overpriced? Gaspard has built a better mousetrap. I don't think Vega needs a plant to accomplish their objective, to make a lot of money. The orders belong to Molen, he just needs to get bio-coal for the cheapest price possible, no matter the source. Gaspard is no fool, he wouldn't be expanding production for non-existent orders. Vega will be billing customers for bio-coal in Q1, 2015 whether Allendale is built or not. If Allendale doesn't get built, then down the road, Molen may well decide to build a plant, and he won't be splitting it 40/60 with Agri-Tech and he won't need nearly the amount of $$ to get it built. A J/V with Vencor is another possibility.
GLTA,
RL
Thanks Gator for the info. Is it possible that Vega's part of the fundraising is completed and we are waiting on Agri-Tech to complete theirs? I know as recently as a couple months ago that both companies were still actively raising funds. If MM has completed his part, Joe James could still be in the process of getting the grant monies from the Govt. and the Sorghum Assoc., etc. I'm not trying to convince the doubters, but it is at least a possibility.
GLTA,
RL
jusscallmezj, If the conf.call format is unchanged, we won't have an opportunity to grill him with questions. The "host", who sounds like he is on a biochar-infused MJ high, will ask his own questions and then a few he selects from shareholder submissions. There is rarely anything confrontational or any pressing for more details. Shareholders will not have the chance to speak with Molen on air. It will be very interesting (and telling) to see if Joe James is involved.
GLTA,
RL
Good question Gator. I also wonder if Vencor absorbed Biochar Now, or if that company is still operating separate from Vencor. Gaspard was an executive with Biochar Now, but I never saw any explanation of his current relationship with Biochar Now. It could explain where that 7/ton per hour unit came from (Vencor's first). It does make much more sense for them to set up a plant near the east coast or Gulf though. Lots of questions for our inaccessible CEO's at VCOR and VGPR.
GLTA,
RL
Amen Mansion.
From reading Vencor's PR's over the past weeks, they indicated they already had a machine producing 7/ton per hour. The new Torretherm machine which produces 5/ton per hour should be their second machine. Gaspard said today they want to add two more in 2015. If that happens, they have production capability of around 132,000/tons per year. He mentioned orders (plural) and "in hand". That's a big investment for a start-up and shows confidence in product, marketing, and the business plan. You guys are right about the need to find out everything we can about that Vencor plant. If it's real, VGPR's plan could have changed drastically. Gaspard said the Torretherm machine is available "at a fraction of the cost of other machines currently on the market". That's a bit of a shot at Joe James and Agri-Tech, who sell the NC State machine. Perhaps Molen, with a cheaper machine, has decided on a different JV or going rogue and building without Agri-Tech, reaping 100% instead of 40%. He wouldn't need JJ's technical expertise because he has Gaspard. Think about the last VGPR CC. Gaspard knew about it but was traveling and had to cancel. Joe James didn't even know about it. Makes you wonder. Pass the Kool-Aid.
GLTA,
RL
Question for the board....Does this machine represent Vencor's second machine? Didn't they already have a machine (perhaps a different type) that was producing 7 tons per hour?
Thanks in advance,
RL
Papamoka, I appreciate your consistent optimism on this board. Molen's e-mail addy is michael@mkmolen.com
GLTA,
RL
In a recent Vencor news release, James Gaspard (Vencor CEO and on Vega's advisory board) announced his company will have a second torrefaction machine online in January, to increase capacity by 30k tons/yr. Much of this capacity is for VGPR orders (plural), as in not one order. But the most important part of the release, in my opinion, was the next sentence. "The cost of the Torretherm machine is a fraction of the cost of other torrefaction machines currently being marketed." Remember those words....
GLTA,
RL
Vaporman, Agreed the Vega news is long overdue, but it is coming. I too hope folks don't sell the news, at either company. I own shares of both, and haven't sold any of either company. Both stocks are volatile to say the least, but with VCOR's share structure, a little more good news and it will fly North.
GLTY,
RL
Rudy, Michael Molen (Vega CEO) stated in a e-mail several weeks ago that the Vencor agreement would allow Vega to ship bio-coal in January. Since Vencor already has one producing machine (and is adding another), I assume production is underway on the initial 3,000 ton order, with shipment in next two weeks. I believe Vega will release news this week which will include details concerning Vencor. The news should be of interest to shareholders of both companies.
GLTA,
RL
Gaspard doesn't have a reputation as a BS'er, and he issued a press release as Vencor CEO that they have exclusive rights to a torrefaction machine that will produce 5 tons/hr., "at a fraction of the cost of other machines on the market." If true, where does that leave Joe James and Agri-Tech? Does it have any effect on the JV? Is another JV coming or a parting with JJ? Molen is on the board of Vencor. I expect news tomorrow, MM said this week and it's usually not released on a Friday.
GLTA, should be interesting.
RL
That Vega news release will have a very positive impact on VCOR in my opinion. VCOR's entire production capacity, as it stands now, could be used to produce enough biocoal for Vega's order. Vega will still need production assistance even after they build a plant. That's why Gaspard knows he needs to double capacity in 2015. VCOR is far more than a P.O. box. I'm hearing the plant is in North Carolina, shipping out of the port of Norfolk, VA. I would bet the plant is within 150 miles of Norfolk, by a lumber mill, and located on a major rail line. All my humble opinion.
GLTA,
RL
Thanks for that Mansion.
Exactly...some of the beer money "investors" flipped. Shares are now in stronger hands.
GLTA,
RL
Thanks for keeping us informed vaporman.
Told you it was coming...
Ask slap coming....
Loyal, I doubt that Vega raised a million $$ with the Private Placement. Those shares were priced at .0010 with a two-year restriction from selling. When VGPR's share price crumbled to levels it hit in Oct. and Nov., it became very difficult to sell the PPM. Why buy PPM shares (class C preferred) with a two-year restriction when you could purchase common shares at half that price with no restrictions? The reason construction hasn't begun is because both companies are still actively raising funds. I believe the "blockbuster" announcement will be that the fund-raising reached it's goal to get the pilot plant built in Allendale, and may include additional details beyond that. My opinion is that the announcement is coming in January. MM mentioned to me in an e-mail weeks ago that the deal with Vencor would allow Vega to be SHIPPING biocoal in JANUARY. Whatever portion of the profits Vega gets from that deal should be hitting the books in Q1. Vencor is already operational. I hope, like you, that the 4th quarter financials show cash raised. You can't just put it in a desk drawer.
GLTA,
RL
In addition to the tight float, another factor that is an under-appreciated plus for this stock is that the preferred shares don't appear to be a problem. Vaporman's DD posted a while back stated that the preferred's were voting only shares and not convertible to common. In other tickers, that can be a huge problem. Even though often restricted for a period of time, those shares do eventually convert and can cause a constant drag on any price appreciation. Huge plus for VCOR, in my opinion.
GLTA,
RL
Good post, Gas Monkey. I hold VGPR preferred and common and have been adding now to a position in VCOR. In my opinion, and it's only that, the chance to flip for a quick profit is greater with VCOR. However, as long term investments, I think both companies will be fine. VCOR does seem to have a superior share structure, but VGPR has attributes also. Understand that the goal is to make biocoal a COMMERCIALLY VIABLE alternative to European utilities. When VCOR doubles their capacity in 2015, as I believe they will, and when VGPR is up and running their plant, both companies COMBINED won't be able to produce enough biocoal for one average sized power plant. The demand for a commercially viable alternative fuel is massive. If they can pull it off, I see both companies adding machines for years to come. Biocoal can prolong the life of coal power plants for two decades, by making them "green enough" politically. Europeans don't want nuclear, don't want to depend on Putin and Russian natural gas, solar isn't ready. The biocoal industry just has to be able to produce enough to give them a viable option.
All my opinion, and good luck to everyone here,
RL
No, GOducks, I don't. I hope someone posts a CC link. The info regarding the 6M is in the details section of one of the financial statements. Apparently some of the "loans" to the company from the previous management team couldn't be substantiated and the new team wrote them off. A good thing for current shareholders.
GLTA,
RL
It's not a bad thing, the write-off. I'd rather the company have the cash to invest in additional torrefaction machines.
No one bought that 6M in debt. It was written-off by current management. There was no cash infusion by Gaspard to pay off that debt.
RL
Gator, I was reading that the capacity of a newer large ocean freighter is as much as 400,000 tons of coal or ore. Of course, smaller ships are available also, but VGPR's order should be easily transportable to Rotterdam or wherever.
RL
Orders aren't going to be the problem, production capacity is what will have to be addressed. VCOR is already hoping to double production in 2015. Keep this in mind, an averaged-sized coal-fired power plant (500 mega watts) burns an average of 3,337 tons of coal per day. Assuming an 80/20 mix of coal to biocoal, the plant would need 667 tons per day, or nearly 250,000 tons annually. That's ONE power plant. That is 4 times current production capacity (7T/hr). There are coal power plants in Europe and Asia that are nearly 10 times this size, and there are over 2,300 coal plants currently operating worldwide. Production has to be expanded to make this a viable option for European utility companies, who are facing political mandates for use of renewable fuels. If you are going to have a problem in your business, this is the one to have. Good luck everyone.
RL
Gator,
I was asking about Vencor's (Gaspards) plant. Isn't it in Colorado? Thanks for your continued DD.
RL
Anyone know?....Does VCOR have to ship their biocoal from their plant in Colorado? I believe that's where they are located. I know we aren't competing with them at this time, but for shipments to Europe, Allendale seems better situated geographically for lower costs.
TIA,
RL
Salmonsitka, In your search for a conspiracy, you have the facts bass-ackwards. The wood pellet manufacturer, Thunderbolt Biomass, would be there whether a ATP-SC builds a plant or not. CEO Knox Grant is in the wood pellet business. He sells to others customers. He is located there because of the ready supply of raw wood waste from Collums Lumber and sawmill, the owner of the property. The fact that he can also produce for the JV just gives him a very convenient new customer. The only reason the JV would purchase wood pellets from Thunderbolt is to increase capacity. It's not that hard to understand. Pre-dried wood pellets can be turned into biocoal faster than raw, wet wood waste. It increases the speed of the torrefaction process, thereby resulting in more biocoal per hour. It will cost more, but at this point, its all about production and filling orders. As plant capacity increases, with additional machines, I'm sure ATP-SC will use less and less wood pellets, and use just wood waste and crop biomass. So just to review for you.....wood pellets go into the torrefaction machine (step one). They are torrefied into biocoal (step two). The biocoal is sized to whatever the buyer wants, pellets bricks or whatever.
Your Welcome,
RL
Slmiley, I hope that is the case. I would rather the PR be about Allendale. It would be nice if the pic was of a torrefaction machine in the plant at Spartanburg. I still think Gaspard's conf. call on Monday will have to involve VGPR, but you may be right in that any PR from Molen won't be about VCOR yet. I'm just hoping for progress on either front. Good luck to you and all of us.
RL