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I still don't get your logic. FORD IS THE MANUFACTURER OF THE MUSTANG. Saleen is a tuner. Without Ford there's no "Saleen Mustang". Without Saleen, there's still a Mustang. Same goes with any other car Saleen tunes.
I don't get your logic what so ever. Saleen once was a manufacturer so of course they will be in certain list. they once manufactured the S7, but now they tune.
Saleen is in the likes of Roush and Henessey, not BMW and Audi. Even then, I bet Roush out sell Saleen 10 to 1.
When was the last time they manufacture a car? 2009, so they haven't been a manufacturer since 2009. They take car and tune them. they are a tuner.
It's not even that. It's a press release from Saleen. So weird that they mentionned sales of luxury auto manufacturers. It's like "hey BMW and Audi are doing great so will we!"
I mean common. Saleen is a tuner. They haven't produced a full car since 2009. They can't compare themselves to BMW or Audi.
They are the punchline to a joke.
A great stock?
What would be your best case scenario? What can Saleen do in... let's say the next 4 quarters to improve the stock? From Q3 2014 into Q4 2014 to Q4 2015?
Keep in mind that there are 10 million more shares coming to dilute to stock by end of 2015 (90 million by end of 2017).
What can Saleen do to increase their stock price?
Pleasde explain your assertion because everything you just mentionned is already priced in the stock.
The news is basically: So Tesla discontinued the P85 on which we based our FOURSIXTEEN on, so now we are forced to change the branding to ST 380 and ST 691. We going to take deposits for the 60, 85, 85D and P85D (the cheaper base priced is simply because of the 60 - it's not on SLNN side) and we might or might not deliver them in 2015.
Still no specification what so ever. Better aero but no drag coefficient. Better acceleration, but no time.
They are still charging $59k on top of the Model S before any "performance" options.
This scream "scam!"
Did they show the car? Pictures?
Roush showed a 2015, Galpin showed a 2015 even Henessey showed a 2015, Where's Saleen's?
I can’t believe what I’m reading. How can anyone read the last 10Q and think this company is well managed is beyond me.
The company is worth $4 million and they operate with $1.5 million quarterly deficit - $6 million annualized. Checkmate right here, but sadly it gets even worse than that with interest expenses worth 5 times the gross margin, $0.50 of marketing for every $1 of revenue and dilution on top of dilution on top of dilution.
And this is well managed?
Also. I still haven’t heard any of the bull explaining how they think SLNN plans to deliver the more than $900,000 worth of cars they owe with only $7,000 in the bank and $91,000 of parts and work in progress. Are you implying that SLNN will increase their gross margin from 11% to ~90% in the next quarter and just build the cars with what they have?
But NO! Somehow there’s some sort of SLNN bashing conspiracy. Let’s be clear; SLNN deserves the negative comments. They have been awful to shareholders. No one can deny that. They try to pay everything with shares. If they can’t pay with shares, they default and ask for extensions. The $400,000 that is due by the end of the month to a bank, you bet Saleen tried to give them shares as payments. It worked with a lot of creditors, but not with the bank and now that SLNN is recognizing gains over these settlements because their stock price fell so much, creditors will be less incline to accept shares.
These are all facts that simply can’t be countered by some bullish logic. So instead they are ignored because it’s easier to do that than to accept to have made a bad investment.
So no proof?
Haha!. Yeah sure. I came to my own conclusion like I somehow read into it. This is straight foward: A rendering of the Saleen Mustang 2015 and a date.
They are not leaving too much place for imagination...
I bet it's going to be a Corvette. Because what SLNN really needs right now it's another car they can ask deposits for. Haha!
You didn't answered my question. What else could it be?
It is clear that the bears on this stock have been right since the beginning and the bulls were wrong. The stock fell from $1.00 to $0.02. This is not something up for debate. This is not stock bashing. This is a simple truth.
Oh please! What else could it mean? It could mean either unveiling or deliveries. Either way, no revenues in Q4.
I am serious though. What else could it mean?
And no, I'm not in California. I didn't take this picture.
Saleen Mustang 2015 delayed to February 2015?
Here's a picture of Saleen's "booth" at the LA Auto Show: https://imgur.com/ZToYGUx
In the back you see a rendering of what Saleen wants his 2015 Mustang to look like and on top you see : FEB 20 15.
This is odd to me since Saleen said this in the shareholder letter:
This is not up for interpretation. This is simple arithmetic.
Saleen has agreed to provide products worth >$900k, but they only have <$100k worth of ressources to build these cars.
This is simply wrong. The last 10Q clearly shows that Saleen owes close to $1 million in customer deposits. Just to be clear, this is not money they have, this is a pure liability.
So close to $1m due (minimum since deposits rarely represent the full amount of their purchase) and less than $100k of cash and work in progress.
How can anyone reasonably assert that Saleen plans to deliver these cars?
it is still held in inventory. When you take it out of inventory, you have only $91,000 left of parts and work in progress. It is clearly stated in the 10Q.
$91,000 + $7,000 = $98,000 against $915,000 of customer deposits.
They basically stole the difference.
We’ve heard the “SLNN will come back” for almost a year now and it only resulted in more pain for the investors.
The 2015 Mustang is not a game changer. SLNN got ~$250k from short-term loans. That’s not even enough to cover their overhead. How will they get the cars? Not only financially, but it also seems like they are burning bridges with their suppliers as pointed out in the 10Q.
We already know that they burned through all the deposit money for the “FOURSIXTEEN” reservations without delivering on the cars. What makes you think the same thing will not happen with the Mustang 2015?
Your point is that Saleen will sell a lot of Mustang 2015 which will result in higher revenues and you say that this will somehow turns out into a “good surprise” on the Q4 results. Who cares about higher revenues? Even if they bring in 5 more millions (which they won’t), they are still stuck with a 11% gross profit. They would still have a huge operating deficit. Add interest expenses to that and Saleen’s financial would remain laughable.
You just have to use some simple math to see how ridiculous is Saleen’s financial situation. Let’s imagine a best case scenario for Saleen in Q4 and by “best case”, I mean unrealistic. Imagine that Saleen manage to get their hands on some 2015 Mustangs last week of November and starts delivery first of December. Imagine they manage to build a ton of cars and deliver them within 1 month which bring in $5m in revenue. On top of that, by some miracle of efficiency, Saleen manages to finish the quarter with a 20% gross margin (which is far better than what they got the rest of the year).
Well even then they would end up with about $500k of operating deficit. Their $250k 9 months loan can’t help much here. Add to that the $500k of interest expenses which will likely go up in Q4 and you will end up with a best case scenario of a ridiculously poor financial result.
When the best case scenario of a $4m company is to add a $1m deficit in just one quarter, you need to run.
At this point you should just sell them. I've been saying for a while that investors that lost a significant amount should look into legal actions (class action lawsuit). I'm sure that a firm specialize in these would be willing to take the case, but it would have to be worth it. So either someone who lost a lot of money (at least tens of thousands or even hundreds of thousands) or a class action lawsuit with a bunch of investors so that some that lost less can jump in.
I'm sure someone can make a case that Saleen's management mislead investors. especially revolving around Tesla.
They simply won't pay it. They said they are still in negociation with the bank to have another extention. From the bank's point of view, it doesn't look good. If they look at what happened since the last extention, from august to november, nothing has improved. On the contrary, every thing is worse.
It all depends on what the bank thinks are their chances to recover some money from the bankruptcy. If they thinks it's low, they'll agree to another extention with another ~$30k on the principal and that'll be that. If they think their chances are good to recover in bankruptcy, then it's game over for Saleen.
I think it's more likely that they will give another extention.
Anyway, I don't care much about the bank. I'm more worried about the customers who put down deposits. $1 million in deposits with only $7k cash and $90k in parts and work in progress. They burned through that money with nothing to show for to the customers.
This time they didn't even bother updating the date to the next quarter at which they'll need more money to operate:
Before discrediting his story you should take a look at this from the 10Q:
I was out of town this weekend and only got to take a look at the 10Q this morning.
My biggest fear in regards to Saleen has been confirmed with the 10Q. I’m pissed that they will get away with this:
Cash: $7,261
+
Inventory: $341,080 (including the S7)
= $348,341
Customer deposit: $913,845
Anyone see a problem with this? Ripping off shareholders wasn’t enough, now they are ripping off their customers. Almost $1 million in deposit with clearly nothing to show for in asset. Where all this money go? If I were a shareholder or a reservation holder, I would seek legal action right now.
As for the income statement, the downtrend remains extremely clear with still no sign of a possible turn-around. Revenues are down 50% from last quarter. Same for the gross margin. While operating expenses are still at the same level as last quarter.
I complained about their ridiculous marketing and sales expenses last quarter, but this quarter it’s just out of this world: $440k of marketing expenses to bring in $860k of revenue? In what world does this happen? And people still have the guts to tell me that no one is getting kick-backs on this.
Of course interest expenses are way up. When your interest expenses are catching up on your revenues then you are over.
I just skimmed through it. I look at the footnotes and comment back if I see anything else.
You keep saying that, but without supporting your assertion. Every single indication we have points toward bankruptcy has their only option. So please explaining why and how there is another option?
You say that people asserted bankruptcy for a while now and that the fact that it didn't happen yet is somehow an indication that it wont, but that's a misconception. SLNN should have taken the road to bankruptcy a while ago, but they keep getting poison loans. these loans are no good for investors. They don't change the direction the company is heading toward. They are only changing the timeframe.
Again, please explain what is the other option for SLNN?
Wow! 0 volume. Not even 1 trade. This stock really is dead.
They don't have a booth as confirmed by SEMA exhibitors list. The videos don't show much. They probably allocate a space for cars to rotate and Saleen took a spot.
That's it? 2 short videos?
Well Saleen is not listed on the exhibitor list for Sema 2014 and I can't find them on the floor plan: http://www.expocadweb.com/sema14/ec/forms/attendee/indexTab.aspx
Wheter they are there are not, their media outreach from the show is laughable: Saleen news for the past week
Still a bad investment. At half a penny SLNN would be worth $600k. It would still be overpriced. You would just be contributing to maintaining this façade of a company.
Tesla just announced they are discontinuing the P85. After changing the hp on all the versions of the Model S which render all of Saleen's branding for the "416", now they are discontinuing the version of the car Saleen uses to "make" the "416". During the 416 introduction, Steve said that they could currently only offer the the car based on the P85. Now they would have to redo a lot of engineering to calibrate to other versions as well as changing all the pricing models.
This is the last nail on the coffin of the total failure that is the Saleen FourSixteen.
wash trader trying to artificially boost the last sale price.
Penny flipping this stock is not a good idea. The volumes are very low and the majority of the volumes always trade below any short term moving average. You will be able to grab shares on what you think might be "on the cheap" and then the stock will gain 20%, 30% even 40%, but you will not be able to unload any significant amount of shares. A lot of sign of wash trading when the price goes up. I doubt anyone is willing to buy above the current level.
I think the last official head count was 30.
You are right. It's not over. Saleen seems determined to squeeze every penny out of this as evidenced by the last few notes issued in the past 4 weeks. He is basically selling shares for a fraction of the current price with crazy upfront costs. It's a clear sign that no one is looking after the shareholders.
False.
In a sense you are right. Though I'm leaning toward the rathole/kickbacks scheme. All these fees are going outside of the company, but they are staying and the same small circle of people.
Just a few examples:
the fees were paid cash. They said they paid them in the 8k. they probably paid them from the KBM loans...
It's not worth it to look at moving average differentials for a stock like SLNN. The volumes are too low and the closing prices are affected by wash trading. Weird small trades are moving the stock tens of percent higher. It fudge any moving average since the stock often closed on these trades.
Not only that, but it's barely about trading anymore. The fundamentals are simply not there and are not likely to ever be.
Oh alright. It's just with the timing and all.
It's just more debt to default on. the fees are also ridiculous. I think someone is getting a kick back. Why did they only disclose the $5,000 of "legal fee" and not the other expenses? They are paying more than 10% of the loan to get it. Again, it's ridiculous.
Everything I said is true and easily verifiable.