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There you have it, a print at .09.....
Now we will see how strong the .0551 bid is.
Many times in this stock small size will trade on the buy side which typically indicates a there will be a larger print on the sell side at higher levels. It also goes the other way.
As is true with all things in the market it doesn't always happen this way, but more times than not it has.
So far so good. You need not apologize for the size of your holdings. I remember my first investment - about 40 years ago. HPC, Hercules was a chemical company. I bought around $3,000 of options and got the funds from my VISA card. What a laugh. Few days after I made the purchase the company was rumored to be acquired by BP. No, I didn't start the rumor .
Hope this works out for all shareholders and you especially.
Lack of volume doesn't bother me.
That was then, this is now. Watch the movie The Draft.
What I meant was the pricing and market environment was then valuations based on that moment in time.
This is now. I had a 4 positions I was going to cut back on on 8/24. Market opened and started to fall within first 3-4 minutes I bought stock. Before the opening was then after the opening was now.
Hope that helps clarify my statement. It's a good movie - they're trading bodies, I'm thrading stocks.
Here is what I would suggest. First, I did this stuff. Second I did this to VODG back in the late 1990's. Bought the majority shareholder out his first name was Lloyd and he was from CA. Remember the time period, it was rather wild.
Paid $0.44 for the stock and brought in board members like the number 3 guy from Lilly. Stock went over $4.00+, that was then, this is now.
We were offered $1.00 in the early stages by a medium sized pharm company.
Jim sold stock at $4.50 and we've kept in touch ever since.
My educated guess $.50-1.00 and the value today far exceeds the value back then
but, as one must always keep in mind in this business - that was then, this is now.
My post on why this should be done is deep felt and I would be happy to sell to the right buyer for $.50 because of the benefits to everyone. I own over 900,000 shares and have owned and accumulated the stock over quite a few years.
Spent my career on the Street. Remember an analyst at a major firm I worked for tell me he would break into the offices of partners in investment banking side to go through their files.
If you didn't know, the flash boys and others can not only get the DJ tape earlier than it is released to public (I was offered that for a "small" charge)
IN ADDITION
if you pay the money you can get SEC filings early as well.
So someone could have gotten this filing sent to them by the SEC early because they are one of the privileged. Stinks but its real life.
VODG being acquired is the best solution for everybody, here's why I deeply believe it and hope it happens.
1. It would give Dr. Musick the support his scientific genius deserves.
2. It would insure what he has developed is further enhanced and passed on into the future.
3. It would provide Dr. Musick with more time to devote to what he does best and remove him from things he doesn't do very well.
MOST IMPORTANTLY:
4. It would maximize the impact of helping others who are in desperate need of what the science he has developed could provide.
5. It would reward shareholders.
The action today is encouraging, not just because the price of the stock is up, but how it traded up and that maybe the above might come to fruition.
Looks to me like there is something going on, high vol, tight spread and bid up.
In the face of no news, would suggest news to come. Hope you end up being very happy with your purchase.
Guess you did...
You going to lift the 61,000+ offered at .05???
Have had communications in various forms with management and prior board member.
From what I have been told, business is going well and a clinical trial is in beginning stages.
Thanks for your response. See where this is your 4th post and that your first was on 4/02, excited to be buying under $.10.
Would you mind telling us how you found this company? Your picture would suggest you do a lot of research, is that for trading, maybe a scientist or just messy
I don't buy the answer. Doesn't make sense that he would spend over an hour with you versus a short press release that would have had much more impact and just too many quarters for too many years not missing.
I'm glad to hear he is busy and hopefully all this starts showing up on the top and bottom line, I own a few shares myself.
Are you adding to your position? Nice percentage gain just to $.10.
Time will tell and I certainly hope you are correct. But unless you are Daddy Warbucks,
let me get this straight, he spends over an hour with you on the phone
but doesn't have time to file NT 10-Q where he could have disclosed that or a 5-10 sentence press release...
As far as I know a company is required to file a NT 10-K or Q if they will be late on their filing. To my knowledge, Dr. Musick has never missed filing the NTs - for years. Why now? They are quick and easy, see above for examples - and they require a reason for why the filing will be late.
In my opinion, if they were going to suspend SEC filings that would have been the reason stated in the NT 10-Q. To do otherwise is inconsistent with how Dr. Musick has operated over all the years.
Something going on behind the scenes. If something serious was amiss, I would not want to compound my exposure to the SEC by not filing the NT. Rather give a truthful but innocuous reason and lawyer up. If there was something amiss that the passage of time would take care of - one could consider the risk/reward and file the third quarter.
Acquisition/merger made the most sense to me, but the length of time now with no information causes me to question this. If an acquisition/merger was imminent I could see waiting a short period of time - but the 3Q has already ended. Furthermore, if they were or are the NT could have stated that financial statements were still being finalized.
Has anyone spoken to Dr. Musick about this and how business is going?
Here is some information on your question:
http://www.sec.gov/answers/otcbb.htm
I didn't take the time to look, I know there is a "grace" period.
Would suggest that this isn't the typical company, as such it doesn't fit into a typical deal structure. Just one man's opinion.
Re-read my post. The price for the stock was twenty not ten million plus liabilities. My mistake.
That is correct, I don't know what is going on, but I did send a communication to the board a few days after the 6/2 release about the merits of being acquired by a larger bio/healthcare company. That a price of ten million plus assumed debt would be an outstanding value to the purchaser. It would reward the current shareholders and give them an option as to stay or go.
The benefits to Musick would also be substantial in many ways. 1) monetarily; 2) work load, 3) funding for his work and the opportunity to devote most of his time in that and overseeing a group of scientists as there are many additional avenues that can be pursued from their patents and current work, 4) have a much larger sales force, also freeing up time for him to pursue what he loves - the science.
Is that why the the 10Q is late. I don't have a clue, nor to I have a clue as to how the communication was received. Seems like a win/win for everyone.
I share your concern, hopefully it turns out well for shareholders
Give him a call, see if he picks up the phone.
Why doesn't someone call and see what Dr. Musick is up to?
Jim Musick
CEO & President
jim@vitrobiopharma.com
(303) 999-2130 Ext.3
When a company announces it is increasing it's manufacturing capacity by 500% - five times current capacity, brings in an extremely respected manufacturing expert, isn't flush with cash...
Could be you have gotten a glimpse, Potse, at some of the motivation of this very dramatic event in the corporate life of VODG. Nice, thanks.
Let me clarify myself. We're talking about a significantly greater number of shares than what you referred to and it has probably been going on now for maybe 4 weeks and started at higher levels. If you just sold 22k in stock and have another 300,000+ behind it.
Over the past month or so, based on volume it would appear that the end is in sight if not completed and going forward may give one a better idea as to the strength of buyers based on the recent news versus someone who is dumping stock because they have to.
I think the press release read very well, but there has been plenty of stock around to buy because of the above situation. Hopefully, now that the seller is either done or close to it we'll be able to get a better sense of things...
Lot of volume on the sell side since the recent and quite positive looking press release. Historic if it happens, five fold increase in capacity. The company did miss their projections of break even/operating profit for the first quarter.
If they had enough capacity to accomplish that, a five fold increase in manufacturing speaks well of what could be.
So where has all the volume come from. Obviously I don't know, but possible a meaningful portion. Obituaries are public data and given a wealthy individual, one could check public records to see stock ownership. Very possible that a good part of the stock that has been sold could be accounted for in such an analysis. The seller in most of these situations is not concerned with much other than moving stock. Certainly a new large seller could show up today or tomorrow, but this may put some perspective on what has happened.
Yes, it certainly appears that it is and now helps to explain why I went "dark" for a while.
Here are some reasons why this seems so significant.
1) Dr. Musick has said before about business improving. Some statements came to fruition more or less, others not.
2) As stated yesterday, the most significant statement to me is Erik's re-affiliation based on statements that had to do with his leaving and going to Amgen and what it would require for his re-affiliation - substantial enough increase in the need to manufacture product to meet orders that the overall "risk" components of his change would permit and actually require this to happen. We always got the sense that the move from VODG to AMGN was to accomplish several things, like greater experience (check) and reduced financial/personal risk on his return. Hopefully we will be able to say "check" in a short period of time.
3) The fact that it didn't happen last year always bothered me as to timing of corporate profitability. Now, there is a lot more skin in the game which is offset by a much clear business environment. Therefore I would conclude that orders are in hand or very close to it - sign on the dotted line sort of thing, not we hope to have an agreement signed in a few months.
4) Recent volume, from what I understand, was the result of estate planning and not someone "bailing out".
Maybe Christmas comes early in 2015.
Several years ago my wife and I meet with management a while after they had moved into their current facilities. Here is a near quote from about a 1 1/2 hour meeting and tour of the facilities.
"You will know that we are on track to see substantial improvement in business when Erik comes back on board." The explanation went something like this. Erik has a substantial position at Amgen, had to cut ties with VODG due to potential conflict of interest. He isn't a scientist, but very talented in production. The fact that he is back makes several VERY strong statements.
1) The likelihood of substantial increase in revenues and growth in income.
2) An indication of how the clinical trials are developing as it would establish a stronger base for him and capabilities in a while for him to either leave Amgen, or
3) Connecting the dots here and what else has been said over the years, it certainly gives the appearance that my stock certs will no longer say Vitro, but some other company located just down the road from VODG.
Huge deal, Erik's return underscores that and the search for the other board member is a reflection of the trials scheduled in Europe this year.
Been a long wait, but this may result in the train finally leaving the station. In addition, as all this begins to continue to blossom, the attractiveness of VODG to a larger company is only further enhanced.
Appears to be several different ways that this stock could meet or exceed many of our expectations. It will be interesting to see if the stock responds nicely to the news or if we are still in the show-me stag. Frankly, if anyone looks into this there seems to be too much going on for it not to respond to the news. It will be interesting to see.
Responding for me is difficult as I am well aware of the need to walk the legal line and at the same time not have what I say be potentially misleading in any way... so here goes.
1) From the very beginning I have communicated my opinions as to Dr. Musick's business acumen. He is a brilliant scientist and thinks that is carried over into business and many other aspects in his life. I would not be a shareholder if I didn't think the value of the company had matured to a level that was no longer dependent on him. In my opinion what has been developed here, sans his presence is of potentially much greater value than the current price of the stock.
2) Has anyone else been in communication with the 3 key individuals, recognizing that now the board has been reduced by one? I have. It started with the sale of stock by Dr. Musick, continued through recent events and why I went silent because I have been deposed 5 times for insider trading by the SEC. Not pleasant, not cheap, but the record for the SEC is 0 wins because there never was any insider trading on my part. That said, the SEC folks I have been exposed to are some of the most unethical people I have had to deal with. They will do, say, create (fabricate) anything, intimidate...
3) Let's consider what has been communicated publicly.
Regarding sale of stock by management. This was followed by a letter stating the reasons. Ask yourself why and what the motivation was behind this letter being written.
The 8-K stating the resignation of Shuster without a press release reflects what I was saying above. Unfortunately that is all we know, however, we also know from public documents that:
Shuster owns stock and one could assume has an interest in the price of VODG.
An recent email I have from him had on it Neuromics/Vitro Diagnostics.
I would conclude from this that the selling arrangement is still solid and moving forward, but I can't go into any other details.
The publicly stated business in Europe has been strong and clinical trials are scheduled to start this year.
In my opinion, the smartest thing Dr. Musick could do would be to sell the company to a larger bio/pharm company so he could spend his time concentrating on the science, get himself and shareholders compensated and make sure that his lifetime of work continues on past his.
Those are reasons to own the stock in addition to the possibility that the patents, etc. are worth more than the current value of the stock - sans Dr, Musick. Finally, if something where to happen to him, his stock is held in trust. His wife, runs a business that supplies chemical devices and has been voted business person of the year at least once in the Denver area...
At times over the years Dr. Musick has been as much of a liability to the price of the stock as he has been an asset to building enterprise value. That is just something shareholders need to come to grips with and respond accordingly. As for myself, I came back to this stock after an initial successful venture with it and have held on for several years. My cost is slightly less than Thursday's close and my own opinion is that the probabilities of significant gains and the associated compounded rate of return over the years held will prove to be worth the aggravation of the price swings and watching Dr. Musick shoot himself in the foot when it comes to public communications.
While over the years my batting average has been quite good at hitting long balls, I have struck out. In my best judgement the risk/reward favors owning this stock, but again it is just one man's experience which happens to be 40 years as of 2015.
I am not trying to influence anybody one way or another, simply providing my opinions.
One could put several different spins on that... from negative to very positive for shareholders.
With that said, I'm "going dark", turning off my transponder
Hmm...
DJIA down 200+ and VODG trades back up to .20, not a great deal of volume, but in the face of this market and 31,300 on the offered side.
Something going on here that could make shareholders happy?
Beats me, sure has the appearance of...
Been kicking around whether or not to waste my time in responding to your post.
I get the satirical tone of your comment that the big buyer taking down a whopping 50 shares, but it shows how, let me be kind, how little experience and knowledge you seem to have. 50 shares lets say at $0.16 is a grand total of $8. Now add to that execution costs, for me they are minimal, but could range in the area of $5-$9. So the big buyer just paid $.26-.34.
I certainly hope it wasn't what appears to be a strong buyer because it would reveal how stupid he/she/they are. Yet, someone on such an ugly day as Friday paid up for stock.
In all likelihood, it was a broker and if you have the capability to watch how small size trades in advance of larger size you just might further your knowledge and reduce the risk of getting eaten in a world that is full of predators.
Based upon the amount of VODG stock I have lent out - that's to the folks who can short the stock - it is meaningfully more than what is reported. That doesn't surprise me as I have seen many a Street trader hold back tickets. In addition, I know these traders monitor this website.
My conclusion, there is a strong, sophisticated buyer of the stock at this point in time. To what purpose, only time will tell and if I knew I certainly wouldn't say. Over the years I have been deposed 5 times on insider trading by the SEC, their hostess ho-ho's at best, and they lost all 5 times, for good reason.
Hope your learning curve shows a sharp increase otherwise you are destined to be road kill.
My earlier statement about a large buyer, in my opinion proved correct as the amount of shares that traded during that time and the fact that I was directly contacted by a broker/trader.
The current comment has only to do with observing the way the stock has traded as I tried to explain on my post. Bids got hit, stock traded down to around .14 and then firmed up. The stock came back from this selling and is nicely bid for at .19 - all these statements are relative to the way VODG has traded over the years.
As to the quarter, I don't know and if I did I certainly would say. What I do know is that, as any shareholder has the right, I have spoken with management and read their recent letter. We spoke about statements made by the company and I addressed Sarbannes requirements, etc. Those conversations were before the letter. Management said absolutely nothing about what they would or would not earn, but I am sure the understand the law. The letter would have been the time that they should have provided guidance addressing prior statements. They did not. Therefore, I would assume what was communicated in the past is still on track.
Let me answer your question this way.
How has the stock traded since the news?
1. In my opinion someone slapped the bid rather aggressively for this stock and it held in and moved higher.
2. I lend my stocks. For the longest of time the amount of VODG borrowed has ALWAYS been larger then the amount reported as being short. This doesn't surprise me as I have known from working on the Street that traders do withhold tickets. Now, the amount of stock I have lent out is in line with what is being reported.
Conclusion, at this point in time there is a strong buyer of the stock and that is how I would respond to your question.
Yes, you are correct. It also shows that Shuster and crew heard and understood the importance of good communication with shareholders. The last press release took quite a while to be posted on the company's website and wasn't picked up on i-hub for a while either.
This, to me is a good thing because your right, very positive things are happening but between the lip and the cup it hasn't translated into the price of the stock.
If this is a beginning trend, I think it is a very good one.
The trading pattern appears that way to me.
1. Let me add that I lend out my stocks so I see on a day to day basis the change in borrowed VODG stock. I have never been able to reconcile what has been borrowed versus what has been reported as the amount of stock short. Might be a timing issue.
2. Over the past few weeks I have had been in communication with the new directors. I am hopeful that finally VODG has a team that will prove very profitable to shareholders. I could not get any strong sense of the company being cash flow positive at the end of fiscal year 10/2014 and positive earnings in January, but the tone of what was communicated was encouraging.
3. 2015 could be the break out year for VODG and let me leave it at that - Happy and blessed New Year to all who see and believe in the tremendous potential in this stock!
Yes, nice in several ways.
1) Business and the scope of future potential. Several ways that shareholders could be big winners, from growing the business to being acquired.
2) The letter and the way it is written shows that the management team understands the importance of what they do and what and how they communicate information. Yes, I have had some "meaningful" communications with them. It was one way until this release. For example, as a shareholder I complained about the poor communications and that I was sure they handled clients much better. The release on that included the headline "bolster" was a terrible choice of words unless they were having trouble with sales and maybe that explained Dr. Musick's sale.
3) So I take the release as a response to mine and probably other shareholders expressing their concerns. The way this letter was constructed and the communication about Dr. Musick selling stock.
I think it could mark a great beginning of more effective communication with investors and potential investors - a win/win for all - as it should be.
Have to take exception to one thing you stated.
"everything has always sounded great here" - has not been the case until Pete Schuster began selling product. He appears to have the right combination of character qualities, business/sales experience and overall savvy to have made and put together an expanding team.
Understand you disappointment, but I think the probabilities favor shareholders seeing the stock break out of the pennies into the buck plus as quite decent, especially if the company is profitable as they have stated by January, 2015.
Wanted to reply back to you regarding the "events" of the last few days/week...
I no longer have the angst about things, per our prior discussions. Have known Dr. Musick for a long time and, like many of us his strengths can also be his weaknesses. In this case, I would suggest that his strengths are very strong which would suggest the opposite of his weakness. I'm sure you get what I mean.
Before all this recent nonsense, I was very hopeful about the science and products coming from that and then the addition of the two new board members only increased my sense that this stock could be - could be - a very substantial long ball. Unfortunately, I can't comment on recent communications with certain folks, but you get my sense and in addition I would like to add:
Someone recently made a post about a major pharm company "partnering" with VODG. As I understand it, I wouldn't call it a partnership as to my understanding there are no partnership papers which could have a limitation on the major pharm company as to what it can and cannot do over time...
Just think if the "major pharmaceutical company" comes to see the current value and future product opportunities and the future value they would have as a result of them working with VODG...
Just responded to your posts, in that
an email has been sent to Musick and Schuster. I did copy your post and statement of lack of response back to you from management to a rather important and significant shareholder.
Will see if and what kind of response I receive.
My prior emails and conversations with Musick were rather "testy" I used to help private companies become Sarbannes compliant to either go public or get purchased by a larger company. So I have some decent knowledge on SOX and would suggest that the public statements and statements provided to me on the phone - which I have taped as in the state of CO only one person needs to know the conversation is being taped and that tape can be admitted into court proceedings.
Yep, I certainly understand. Did you ever get a response back from your email and/or did you call?