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Hey Jeff,
When I was at the shareholder meeting I was able to have a short conversation with Darren(sp?) who indicated that Sigma was finally getting its hands on a multi laser machine. No indications of what time frame he expected before multi monitoring could be accomplished. Apparently Darren is the fellow who was in charge of (I hope I recall that correctly) the recent software development/update. I have no opinion or info as to how much unique software or modification to existing software would be needed, only that Sigma now has access to a multi laser machine.
Folks were available at the meeting for conversation.
patience and GLTA
Hey all,
The meeting was tightly limited to the authorization vote. No real specific as to intended use, no hierarchy of possibilities. John stated that there is a need for shares for doing deals without having to come to shareholders for approval. The votes already in carried the approval. My paltry number of shares would not make a difference one way or the other.
Outside the formal meeting I was able to speak with several folks. No actionable insider information was given, but the overall impression is that all at Sigma are positive in outlook. Access to a multi laser machine has just occurred, so development of multi laser capacity for PR3D is moving forward. No time frame was given, obviously. I have no new hard facts to report. I did feel that the emotional tone at Sigma is positive. There was an expression that things are moving forward, and that there is an expectation that sales and revenues are going to occur in the resonantly near future. There was no definition given of "near future"
I did what I could to express a shareholder desire for more info coming from Sigma, but I have no illusions about a single, small shareholder impacting their practice. Most of my questions as to ongoing business and thresholds that have to be crossed before significant sales are made are the stuff more appropriate for upcoming earnings reports.
All in all I feel more positive, but then I am one of those who has been positive on SGLB. Take it for what it is worth.
patience and GLTA
Hey all,
With the annual meeting being week after next, I am planning to attend.
Anyone else?
Any topics or areas of inquiry to be pushed? Either comments her or a private message would work. I certainly have my own point of view and am open to other ideas, perspectives...
i would like to meet others from the board who might attend. A showing of interest by shareholders and a diversity as well as coordination of questions might have an impact upon management, even I find only to push them to greater and more frequent disclosure.
patience and GLTA
I know it might be generational, but .... I'll share mine if you share yours
patience and GLTA
Having read the letter and various posts, I am coming to the conclusion that I will most likely vote for the increased share count. ....and I need to keep my travel schedule completely flexible. I fully intend on attending the special meeting. Having attended the annual meeting a few months back, I feel that it was well worth it in terms of meeting John and as an expression to management that there ARE shareholders (or should I say IS a shareholder) interested enough in their investment in Sigma to show up.
We, as a group and as individuals need to demonstrate more commitment to management IF we expect to see management transition from directing a small software development company with priority given to R&D toward a somewhat larger software development company with priority given to shareholder interests.
The thought does occur to me as a holder of a fair number of warrants, what the effect of the increase in shares will have on the warrants. Does the increase in shares impact the shares per warrant? Does this decrease the price to exercise the warrants? This is not a stock split, but an increase in authorized shares. I have not encountered this before in my investing history.
patience and GLTA
Alan,
at nearly 400 times the average daily volume, and a total # of shares exceeding supply a single buyer theory is a bit hard for me to comprehend...
and I am not saying that I have come up with an acceptable theory myself.....
I will admit this is far more entertaining to watch than what I expected when I woke up and took a look...
patience and GLTA
Alan,
The point I am trying to make is the MAGNITUDE of the reaction and price move we are seeing based upon a nonrevenue event implies what kind of MAGNITUDE for a pr that does? Certainly to sustain this kind of gain, revenues are needed, but that does not imply that this is meaningless.
Is there any reason to believe that a revenue revealing pr will be any less of a surprise than this?
patience and GLTA
Z, how much of this is short covering? how much is accumulation?
edit: Now that I look at the volume on a real time basis... poor poor shorts.. ;-p
Alan,
Looking at today's (albeit early) reaction to the news of working with a significant German R&D outfit with close dot connections with some major players, even though this is not a revenue generating event, it leads me to conclude that the reaction of shareholders to news of real interest via a buyout offer would be met with an even greater reaction...
news of revenues, just as this piece of news will come without any forewarning... the impact will be even more dramatic...IMO
patience and GLTA
HTRE,
I fully agree that it is unlikely that some corp would make a tender offer several multiples above the current valuation...BUT...shareholders ...50% plus 1 would have to accept whatever value was offered before tendering their shares. Given the recent shareholder rejection of management's attempt to dilute through authorizing more shares, I am not at all inclined to believe that a tender offer of "limited" enhanced value would be successful. This is not simply a decision that "Sigma" can make independently of the shareholders.
patience and GLTA
I did not mean to imply that somehow you thought that e rep at a booth at a conference would share anything more than is publicly available...sorry if it came across differently. I guess I just get a little tired of hearing expectations that somehow secret foreshadowing will be revealed. IMO the announcement from Sigma regarding purchase orders will come without warning.....
patience and GLTA
Silver, I, like many other long term supporters agree that the technology and patents behind PR3D is worth more than the current market cap reflects. We have all seen large movements north based upon prs for minor milestones. The sale of multiple installations or machines with embedded PR3D will likely trigger not only a move north, but investor excitement which will be the basis for an expectation of trees growing to the sky. Many folks have been patient, others have accumulated even more during this time...would they sell for less than a price premium which reflects their expectations? I tend to doubt it.
patience and GLTA
Looking at the failed effort to increase the number of authorized shares, I believe that IF a buyout offer is made, unless it is high enough to put a majority of shareholders in the green, it too would be rejected when it came to a vote..
patience and GLTA
Re: annual meeting
Ron Fisher was not at the meeting, John stated that Ron and Mark were in Europe. John did not mention if there was a conference, trade show or similar event (perhaps someone here knows of one) but he did mention that they were going to be speaking with Siemens. Personally I doubt that he would have stated this if the sole purpose was to meet with Siemens as it might get too close to a forward statement that he is obviously very careful about.
I appreciate the confirmation of my recollection of $100k for stock repurchase...and am a bit put off by Amanda Cola's negative response. I misidentified the fund raising that was the basis for the repurchase position. My impression of her wanting to kill discussion of the repurchase because I misidentified the source of funds and not because there was no info out there re a repurchase plan feels misleading to me, and I believe that it should be explored a bit during the upcoming earnings report CC. If only to communicate clearly to management that we as investors want more transparency.
After a bit of time for reflection, I am more comfortable with John and believe that he is focusing much more on selling a product than was the case in the past.
patience and GLTA
Here is a bit of a summary of the meeting.
Only one other investor asked questions . She appeared to be a familiar person to most in the room, most of whom appeared to be employed by Sigma.
While I was hoping that Mark would be at the meeting, he is in Europe. Thus I was not able to ask him directly if he was sticking with his nearly year old prediction that PR3D would gain traction in "12 to 18" months (thus now tô now plus 6 months), however John Rice was there...and he refused to quantify his term of "near future" given in the interview recently published and posted to this board. John is a man who is very very careful and not prone to offer specifics when generalities that allow plausible deniability will suffice. I take that as the general operating procedures for someone in his position. I did not get the impression that he was being overly squirmy. I got the impression that he is far more concerned with business values than Mark had been. I believe that it was John who pushed against a merger with Morf for business reasons.
The AmericaMakes report was dealt with as having been based upon two year old data. Statements were made to the effect that newer data does exist which is far more favorable to Sigma, but that this data has been produced and collected working with two companies....but....is restricted data due to NDA's and Sigma does not have permission to disclose at the current time. I asked about Sigma developing data in house using their machine and it appears that they would like to do this, but no language was offered suggesting that they were actually engaged in producing such data. No concrete method of disseminating potentially more positive data when it becomes available was indicated. John indicated that the nondisclosable data strongly supports the utility of PrintRite.
The relationship with Morf3d and Jaguar can be characterized as a strategic alliance. There appeared to be some concerns that if Sigma were to acquire or merge with Morf then it might increase resistance amongst other contract printing companies to PR3D and that Sigma would prefer to not increase the threshold resistance of these companies to becoming customers of Sigma. I got the feeling that there is no longer interest in a merger or acquisition although Sigma wants to have a strong alliance with Morf. Thus, lower probability of dilution of shareholder value from that one.
As yet, no installation of PR3D at Morf, nor was there a willingness to disclose when PR3D might be installed there (or if it would a single or multiple installations). John did indicate that in the recent past they were preparing to install there, but that another installation took priority. After the meeting I spoke with one of the technician/engineers who indicated to me that his installation-verification & initial training is a one week deal, so I am left wondering how it is that the installation at Morf could not be completed...the engineer was unwilling to say anything more than what exactly came out of his work, not sales, not anything more than what he actually did.
Adoption of AM for production is seen as being slowed by incomplete understanding and control of internal machine processes (such as atmospheric variability within the build chamber) as well as a lack of standards. Reference was made to how Sigma is involved in the development of standards in cooperation with various companies (such as Aerojet) and agencies.
John indicated that the margins for contract printing were shrinking and that Sigma is taking a stronger focus on software rather than contract printing. This appears to apply equally to the Morf issue as well as the development of an in house contract printing aspect. My impression was that Sigma is going to live with the machine they have and maybe one more, not the three more that had been indicated before.
GE - there appears to be a lot of distance between Sigma and GE. It was suggested that Sigma and GE are yet to determine if there will be future cooperation or a patent fight. John and Amanda appeared to be confident that the patent technology is clearly Sigma's .... but that does not mean that a fight may not happen. John expressed great confidence in the legal representation (sorry that I forget the firm name). Seems to me unlikely that GE will be the first to order multiple PR3D installations, but that is not news.
General vibe is that companies like Aerojet, Siemens and Honeywell are working well with Sigma and that they are positive. Some mentions of OEM opportunities, but again very limited naming of names and an unwillingness to offer timeframes.
Some concerns were raised as to the possibility of theft of IP - particularly in reference to China. John indicated that the possibility exists, yet he relied upon the algorithms as being where the value is, not in the data collection. Stated also that the potential size of the market there is too great to avoid the market.
I seem to recall that in one of the pr's of about a year ago that some of the money raised was earmarked for stock repurchase to support price, but this was denied by Amanda. I will have to go back to earlier pr's and maybe ER transcripts to find this (if it exists outside my memory) - if anyone recalls, please confirm.
These are just quick impressions and recollections. I retain the right to change my mind after letting this bounce around my thoughts for a day or two. Hope it helps.
as always,
patience and GLTA
Hey all, I just arrived in Santa Fe.. at the meeting room. Any specific question areas ??
I will try to give a review later today.
patience and GLTA
Wowed zowee Batman!!! Look at that!,,, the bid on the warrants has tripled!!! .... still meaningless in the grand scheme of things.... (btw, I notice that none of those traders yesterday found a seller who had an equal evaluation for the warrants)
and, in other news..... a very thinly traded stock for a company that offers an enabling technology for an industrial technique which has not yet transitioned from prototype to production having large price swings is most correlated with and indicative of ..... a very thinly traded stock for a company that offers an enabling technique which has not yet transitioned from prototype to production.
patience and GLTA
Sol,
I am of the opinion that SGLB is going to move dramatically upon significant contracts. In the past, there have been large moves on contracts for a single installation and large moves on good news that was not a sale. I am not sure what the beta is on the stock, but it is quite high. The long, slow loss in share price has been in the face of no real negative news. No news of a competitive system having been developed and adopted by a machine OEM or a manufacturer of parts. No SEC investigation or accounting issues. No news of collaborative develop,net projects such as those sponsored by AmericaMakes or DARPA that involve a competitive technology. There are no massive losses on large volumes....it all appears to me to be a slow process of folks growing impatient and listening to the FUD that gets repeatedly spread around. Will it grow north of 50? I don't know but I think in time,that there is a significant chance. KMey or some of the other engineer types who are more connected with the industry may be better able to predict when AM will find traction for medium lot production (or maybe even large lot production) rather than the prototype mode that seems to be where we are...and it will take production runs before there is a need for IPQA .... reading the various articles, opinions etc, it certainly has the feeling that we are on the cusp. If PR3D as the software to accomplish in process monitoring that is actionable and meets promulgated standards, then approximation of $50 could be seen....all just my wild ass guess and personal opinion.
patience and GLTA
KMey, thanks for this. One thing that I did notice is that this document was dated the same month as the meeting. In your experience, do you think that they are going to release a similar document for the upcoming meeting?
I am still trying to find other connections to the document by looking at presenters of unpublished presentations, and as you might expect, some of the searches of the presenters results in connections to Sigma.
patience and GLTA
No doubt that shareholder value has dropped, but it is dropping in the absence of bad news to justify the magnitude of the drop. From day one of Sigma going public it has been a speculative play on the belief that the software would meet a need for AM. Nothing has changed.....other than the development of many connections with the players who appear to be those which will bring AM out of prototyping and into production.
Some folks get impatient...others get frustrated...and others pick up shares being willing to risk getting in now instead of waiting for the bottom. How good are they at recognizing the moment before a positive news pr will send the price north? I look at the magnitude of the drop in pps without changes in the news and believe that when there is good news the positive response will dwarf the magnitude of the current negative response.
To,each their own......
patience and GLTA
A bit of news: http://client.irwebkit.com/sigmalabsinc/news/2441232
It is simply good to see a more rapid response from Sigma of releasing good news in response to a bad day yesterday. Hopefully this presentation will have good info and effect. Any of our more technically knowledgeable folks going to be able to attend or have colleagues who might be attending so that we might get a bit of detail next week?
Kind of hard to imagine that Mark would go there to make a presentation that basically says IPQA is needed, BUT OUR PRODUCT DOES NOT DELIVER
patience and GLTA
Whoooo hoooo!!! A nearly 30% swing in the value today....
Really?
Really?
No news that would support such a differential that I can see. Is this the "conversion" you refer to....or is it simply the impact of a very small volume? or maybe the evidence of some folks trying to push the pps in one direction or the other?
October 2 meeting should be very interesting. I am planning on attending. Anyone else? it could be fun to meet up before and/or after the meeting.
I hope that we have a good level of participation in the Q&A tomorrow...certainly there are a lot of things that people here seem to indicate they are interested in.
patience and GLTA
KMey, fully accepting the limitations on you re the nonpublic report vs summary, can you say if as a result of your having seen the nonpublic report are you now
1) less confident in PR3D,
2) at about the same confidence level in PR3D
or
3)even more confident in PR3D ?
patience and GLTA
Pisd, the clarity is all there hiding in the plain sight of the written words of Sigma Labs pr announcing the collaboration. A moment of looking back at the official announcements can provide clear information that will short circuit wandering conversations that are going into speculative fears, nothing more.
patience and GLTA
No Pisd, if you look back at the pr describing the joint work to develop a new architecture platform for PR3D and looked a little more closely, you would see OXYS Corporation is not the link you provide.
Try this one. http://www.oxyscorp.com/index.html
patience and GLTA
KMey, I just came across this and was wondering if you were going to be able to arrend...or if it would even be worth your time to attend. Does seem sort of on point to me.
Alan, I agree that a board without MC will likely have a greater focus on business. MC continues on as president and CTO and this may be a better deal. And, SGLB may be in he state of development that the position of CTO and CEO is too much for a single person. Either way, the new CEO you have been calling for, for quite a while.
It also brings up interesting potential outcomes.
Say MC has been right about the anticipated contracts, and in a year or so we are seeing significant sales. Effect of market maturation and approach MC has taken in past v. CEO has skill set more appropriate for selling software v. interaction effects?
If things take longer...MC giving short time frame again v. New CEO same as the old CEO v. New CEO effective but market not ready v. interaction effects?
How long will SGLB have an "interim" CEO? Who will be brought in? We need a couple of board members. I certainly hope that this transition has been thought through for sequence and timing better than some of the more recent opportunities and actions.
patience and GLTA
Just got this...MC as CTO and interim CEO Rice.....will he rather than MC be doing the CC next month?
http://client.irwebkit.com/sigmalabsinc/news/2441097
curious to see what happens in the search for a CEO.
patience and GLTA
KMey and Ted,
I am far more interested in any forward guidance than I am the Q2 revenues.
Regarding Seimans and others, any significant sales would have been announced but progress towards contracts and sales are not. Hopefully MC will give some clue as to when PR3D will actually gain traction in terms of contracts, sales and revenues. Based upon MC's statements in two of the last three CCs, a time frame of 3 to 9 months is the window. Has there been anything that impacts this? Does the change in sensors and other work with OXYS change this? If so, how?
What is the status of the Morf3d - Jaguar alliance-contract-merger? What happened to Inspect 3?
What light can MC throw on the patent issue particularly as regards the patent app by GE?
What is MC going to say about the AmericaMakes report?
What is being done to recruit a new board member? What skill set are they looking for to enhance shareholder value in this new member?
Probably are a couple more "hot" issues for me, but I am operating on a caffeine deficit right now.
patience and GLTA
Jeff,
I fully agree that maintaining patience is no small and easy thing. Just knowing that we are in familiar territory helps sometimes.
http://www.gartner.com/technology/research/methodologies/hype-cycle.jsp
I think we have been in "the trough of disillusionment" for a while and are nearly ready to climb out. Not sure it will happen in the Q2 CC, but within the near to mid future.
patience and GLTA
Kanya,
My comment is in response to, and limited in focus to the question of what to expect in the Q2 cc.
It would not surprise me to see somewhere in the near to mid future that Siemens will be one of the larger customers. Certainly a part failure is huge in gas turbines, but not nearly the impact of a part failure in aero, thus a lower fear threshold to overcome for adoption to occur.
But, I seriously doubt that there will be a noticeable impact on the Q2 numbers...maybe something will be revealed in the forward looking statements and WAGs offered by MC.
patience and GLTA
Jeff,
I am not expecting much about Siemens at the current time. First, the contract will be implemented during this year...still lots of time. And secondly, MC indicated that this is not expected to be a large contract.
Info is acquired in the local mullet wrapper
https://www.bizjournals.com/albuquerque/news/2016/11/14/nms-sigma-labs-partners-with-3-d-printing-giant.html
specifically
Ted, this list appears to be " institutional " investors as it does not reflect MC. I have not seen any reporting of MC divesting and he certainly has more shares than many of those listed.
Additionally, it does not reflect Rockville Asset Mgmt, so I would like to know if it is just institutional investors, does Rockville have status as an "institution" and this means they sold out?
wasn't there talk or prior documentation about the individual behind "Sabby" also having acquired a personal interest at the time the Sabby shares were acquired?
These shares held by institutional investors are about 7% of the outstanding shares - certainly a significant but not nearly controlling percentage, even if taken as a unit should there be a call for a shareholder vote such as a buyout offer or for board member elections.
patience and GLTA
I agree that Mark should have been prepared with a PR regarding this. Not sure that he could get out in front of the AmericaMakes release, but a quick response, perhaps a letter to shareholders or something similar would be good. At a minimum, he should be fully prepared to go into this in some detail at the CC next month.
patience and GLTA
It would surely be interesting to know if their steps of liquid binding-heating-fusing would lead to cast-near forged- or forged quality in the final product. I certainly do not have the background to hazard an "informed" or "knowledge based" guess, but it appears to me that the answer to this will be highly critical for their technology to be used in aero or similar applications.
patience and GLTA
Jeff,
Thanks for the find. I do not find it a negative at all that she did not mention PrintRite or SGLB by name, as the entire tone of the piece was consistent with her academic background and the context of "women in 3d printing" seemed to be one of encouraging more women to be involved in engineering and 3d printing specifically.
This find lead me to google up AM and in process monitoring, which lead me to https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s40684-017-0029-7
I do not have academic access, so it would cost to read the whole thing...does anyone out there have academic access which would let them read this and let us know - in a general way that does not violate their access rules - if the article has any direct information which may impact understanding of PR3D and alternative efforts that may be real competition?
patience and GLTA
Thanks KMey for the link.
For those who still need a bit of patience while waiting it for the commercial use of AM to gain traction
Alan, your idea assumes that there is a manufacturer which is willing to be open and transparent. I just do not see where that is the reality in an area such as aero which is known and characterized by the opaqueness so many here have complained about for so long.
Having had some personal experience with those involved in aero, I find this SOP.
I also find it to be the basis for many here to voice opinions which are devoid of clear factual support....both positive and negative. It is the nature of the territory.
This also goes for the medical applications- e.g. joint replacement parts. Take a look at how minimal the advanced info is from companies that live in that arena.
I am also unaware of any company currently engaged in significant manufacture of large numbers of AM metal parts, and by significantly large numbers I mean a level which has bottlenecks and delays due to post-production inspection processes. If there is a company that clearly would be manufacturing significantly more parts but for the ability to perform IPQA, I am unaware and I would greatly appreciate info regarding this.
patience and GLTA