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hold2wm now 100% confident in a Libor settlement. I like his optimism.
We have a good judge this time too. Stars are aligning. For those of you without escrows, too bad about you.
Now let's see the when and how much. Will it be weeks or months..........
We are close to Libor resolution. I dont see how even the most venomous naysayer can deny Libor. Its fact. Incontrovertible.
Lets just hope it is distributed fairly. Remember that 70% goes to hedge funds. We are just along for the ride. When they get paid we do too.
Coattails
Rosen was correct about Libor assumption.
When he said Libor could be the only path for escrow payments he was right in one regard. Libor looks very likely now.
Where he was wrong is that it could be the only source. Very wrong.
Libor could however be very big for us. It will surely be over par.
Lets hope COOP gets it cut too.
Libor 100b = 56b for us according to some calculations. 10b goes to Fdic. Rest goes to to the small banks in the group.
I expecting an out of court settlement any day between now and Apr 12.
We shall see...
Redactions and docs under seal can be there to protect peoples identities and finances. Not sure they are ever compelled to make those items public in a bk case.
A lawyer would be better to respond. I think they want to hide all that forever. The whole case was sneaky. Look at how they did it in the middle of that Thurs night. Evil pricks. Thats why I say I hope they rot in hell.
They have one last chance to right this wrong before they meet their maker.....if they're smart.
The holding company knew the seizure was likely. So much turmoil at that time.
Luckily they had the foresight to stash the assets in time.
The only thing that they missed was the scheduled 4b deposit they put in the bank on 9/6/08. Big mistake. But they are to be commended for securing the assets. Brilliant work.
Too bad there was so much redacted and under seal in the court docs. We may never know what was hidden.
The minerals likely were protected in safe harbor with the other WMI assets.
Are you on bp? This has been discussed there.
Denke was hired to do an inventory, then vanished. Who knows what happened to him.
Oil, gas, gold, silver, coal. All annotated. Over 1T. Maybe much more.
Thus the 800b total.
Then add on DCR, minerals, etc. Yikes.
Ron, I think the bank payment and Libor are two different animals, right?
So the $300B JPM bank payment, if "invisible" there, sits in the R waiting to close and be released to the estate/us. The $400B that FDIC sued for in Libor is a separate piece of the pie.
So many different avenues/buckets.
Many including hold2wm think over 100B.
I can't imagine the hedgies and FDIC, and the judge, accepting much less. JPM and BBA would be wise to settle rather than expose themselves in depositions. So I expect we hear something in the next few weeks. Don't forget that the FDIC is broke now and they get 10%, so they will hold out for as much as possible.
The hedgies and FDIC won't accept 80B. No way. Maybe 150-200B. Maybe. This has been 15 years of opportunity cost for the hedge funds and they want fair payment, as will the judge. My question is how will it be divided. Of course the bonds must get paid first. Will the escrows be 75 25? Will COOP get 2.5%?
So many questions so this could take time, maybe a month or two to distribute. That's where bop may be right that the brokers will invite loans right away on any confirmed settlement.
Large green, this is just the Libor settlement.
Once that happens, and it will, then the rest of the money can flow. Yes, that could take some time. I'd bet the hedgies are in negotiations as we speak. Libor is the trigger for the R closing etc. So if the estate/us gets $50B from Libor most would be happy. The key is what comes after. And if Denke was right the minerals could make us all quite wealthy and we could do our part to fix the economy.
Almost time to start looking for properties to get an idea of where we will all live. And whether we want to become polygamists and have multiple young wives. LOL
GLTA
Libor out of court settlement?
My wamu contacts think there could be an out of court settlement and the judge will rubber stamp it in her chambers. That would make it all private so no controversy with jpm and fdic. Hush hush. No fanfare or announcement.
Makes sense. The money shows up in our accounts and we all go quietly into the night.
Works for me.
Boiler room boys will be terminated like DEI staff at U of FL were today. LOL
Once Libor settles and escrows get a hefty payout they have nothing left to squawk about. Their boss will say Youre Fired!
Back to moms basement and scouring the Indeed job postings!
R will close after Libor is settled. We are close.
Judge Naomi wants to retire.
Libor settlement Part 1 by 4/12.
BBA dual track part will be done very soon IMO. JPM bank Part 2 may conclude at the same time or shortly after.
I doubt these settlements linger till Oct. That would be judicial suicide.
These settlements are nearing the end.
Then the FDIC will most likely hand it off for disbursement. Wondering if COOP gets 2.5% of this.
We are very close to news now. What will the 24 7 escrow bashers do then? Ha.
It will close before that. I think we could see a settlement offer on the judges desk any day. Delaying would be suicidal for jpm. Of course they could take it all the way to trial and settle then but that would be much more costly and damaging.
Patience is the watchword now people.
Deposition process is ongoing. Will be concluded Apr 14.
Are they stupid enough to go to court with this?
From hold2wm on bp:
"When FDIC settles with BBA and EU banks, Chase and other US banks will have few months to settle as well. IMO it isn't up to Dimon to drive the timeline, he will be told when and the $ amount is already known to both FDIC and Dimon."
BBA, ICE LIBOR (formerly known as BBA LIBOR) is a widely used benchmark for short-term interest rates.
The dollar amount hold2 refers to is likely the $400B.
So FDIC now is going after BBA in the dual track litigation, with JPM having the chance to settle as well. I find it implausible that JPM wants to drag this out and take the chance of being hamstrung in depositions, trials, or possible RICO. If this goes to Apr 14 and JPM still has not settled, it goes to the discovery phase which ends Oct 4, then on to trial, which could get very ugly for JPM.
Now, will JMP try to settle for 100-200B and be done with it, or do they want to play hard ball and risk getting Epsteined? I would guess we will hear of a settlement next month. If they do not then we go to trial most likely, which will end 12-18 months from now and the result will be huge for us and a nightmare for JPM.
IMO
My best guess based on talking to others in the know is that something will happen for escrows this year. Now it could be any day, another month or two, or after discovery on Oct 4. But we are close folks. I know it's hard to believe after all we've been through, and I can even understand the naysayers skepticism. But, as Rosen even said, the least we may get is Libor, and that alone could be very substantial. I believe the bank still must be paid for. And then there's the assets. Oh my so many assets! Hang tough.
Will Libor be 75 25 and Coop 2.5%
That is the question. Depends who you talk to.
While the commons usually get any settlement money I think the big boys who own Ps would put up an epic battle for 75.
Bair orchestrated the takedown. Hard to believe one person could unilaterally destroy an entire 100 yr old institution, ruin the lives of 40,000 employees, and wipe out all the shareholders. And now she is head of Fannie Mae!
You cant make this chit up. So unfair what she did to us all.
Crooks like her and Dimon have no conscience.
Nobody knows for sure on Libor or any payouts to escrows. But, the Fdic, Fed, and Irs want this money pumped into the economy asap. The hedgies want their money. Jpm does not want a trial and depositions must be filed by 4/14.
So whilst none of us know all signs point to sooner rather than later. No way do I see this judge wanting this dragged out for 2 more years.
Fdic sued for 400b. So 100b would be a bargain for Dimon.
Goodie, I dont see that old geezers posts.
I love the ignore feature. He is paid to post just like the other trolls here. Best to just ignore him.
Libor settlement process.
So this is how it works IMO. JPM and BBA will offer a settlement to the FDIC with Judge Buckwald presiding. If the FDIC feels the offer is adequate they will request to the judge that it goes through. If she feels it is fair and reasonable she will approve it quickly. Because the amount will likely be in excess of 100B the final disbursement will take several weeks to filter down to the litigants. That's where bop's theory may be correct. Say for instance the settlement takes 2 months to complete. Our brokers could offer loans to us against that distribution. So for those who choose not to wait and need funds sooner, they can take out a loan. The brokers know the loan is guaranteed so it would be an easy process and loans would likely take a matter of days. I like the loan idea for tax reasons. Let our money sit in our IRAs.
Let's see how this plays out. Nothing is a sure thing, but I do like our chances. I refuse to believe that JPM wants to take this to court, risk criminal penalties, and much larger punitive damages.
COOP, WMIH, WMI, Escrows are tied together. Why don't people understand this??? So yes, we talk about them all because they are intertwined. Why is it so hard for some to understand the connections? It's very bizarre. Plus I contend that, when escrows do get paid, many retailers and hedgies will load up on COOP. It's a great investment and when the escrows do get paid COOP will go through the roof going forward. Understand? Geesh?
BTW. Royal dude appears to be banned? Why? Because he was too pro escrow? Can someone look into this or are all the mods now naysayers?
Update: Judge Naomi turned 80 on Valentines Day. Great day to be born. We love you Judge Naomi. Happy 80th!
Judge Naomi will soon be 80 and wants to retire so she will move expeditiously now to wrap up Libor. I expect something for us next month before depositions are due.
https://ballotpedia.org/Naomi_Buchwald
Split T may be right with his payment guess of a few weeks possible. Thanks for your efforts here. I agree that we could be much closer to payment than most realize. It's all about Libor. We have what I consider to be a great judge who will want this resolved asap. Then once Libor settles things will get very interesting with the WMI assets, bank payment, and much much more. I feel sad for those who didn't release. My heart pumps piss for them.
Look at this list of WMI subs! Wow.
Thanks i prelude and Split T.
Could be a false alarm.
Oh well. Fact is WMI assets are safe and sound and ready for disbursement when the R closes soon. Lets get Libor closed.
Thats why Dimon and Bair wanted the WMI holding company included in the deal. Luckily congress denied them. Dimon is a parasite. He knew all about the WMI assets and mineral rights because they had to open the books for him when he offered to buy Wamu. He wanted that more than the bank.
So glad we released!
If all this is true it proves WMI had enormous assets and this will all be revealed when the R closes.
No wonder Bair and Dimon wanted the holding company so badly! The mineral rights alone could be over a trillion.
Denke was right.
AJ HURT preferreds are worth $10mm each! Times 1000 is $10B just in preferred stocks.
AJ HURT is a huge company.
If WMI merged/bought them in 2022 this proves WMI does have hidden assets that are viable alive and well.
Very interesting. Gotta do some more reading. Thanks all for unearthing this.
Thats a huge company.
The Hurt Company : RelaDyne
https://reladyne.com/hurtco
https://www.corporationwiki.com/Texas/Houston/a-j-hurt-jr-incorporated/30866705.aspx
From bop:
There is a presumption that on or before the final release date in March 2012 JPM knew assets belonging to WMI were among those the FDIC seized, and therefore that JPM would have to pay for them, and $ would go to WMI.
Accordingly, if Jamie Dimon or his minions beneficially own any WMI legacy benefit even if he/they can't be prosecuted for insider trading (I believe the 10-year statute of limitations expired in 2022) the DOJ can and should ask Judge Walrath for the equitable remedies of disgorgement/civil forfeiture. Quote from: epo78741 - So what in your honest opinion is holding things up? Quote from: CSNY/Alice Griffin bankruptcy Attorney - As a preliminary matter, I think the WMI assets have been bifurcated into the JPM portion and the private equity (i.e., MBS portion) and that these portions have different timelines.
JPM will pay for WMI assets when it settles with the FDIC, and that settlement must come when the receivership is pretty far advanced (virtually closed), which means LIBOR. (Again, JPM owes no payment to WMI; it owes money for WMI assets to the FDIC, which I believe JPM will pay to WMI at the FDIC's direction.)
As to why JPM hasn't paid already, one reason is obvious: why part with money before you have to? There's another reason, in my opinion. As background, about three years ago the statute of limitations on insider trading was extended from five to 10 years. We discussed this at the time. This was a surprise to Wall Street and I understand the Trump administration opposed the extension. This means that any JPM person who bought and released in 2012 were vulnerable, and I cannot believe this was not a concern for any JPM person who owns WMI legacy assets or WMB bonds. As long as the assets were valued at $0 there would be no prosecutorial interest in whether there was an insider trading case and the wise thing to do would be to wait out the statute.
LIBOR means there will be payment on both the WMB bonds and the WMI legacy assets, and essentially will resolve all the major outstanding issues in the receivership, in my opinion. That means JPM will have to pay up. I don't know that the estimated $800B in MBS will also be disclosed at that time; I think that depends on whether the players have the right opportunities for deployment of those assets.
Back to JPM, once LIBOR is resolved the FDIC can and will compel payment from JPM for an omnibus settlement and that will include WMI giving a release to the FDIC.
The LT markers were cancelled as wwhathe said.
But what weren't cancelled were the escrow POSITIONS. Big difference. As I said, our escrow positions are still on the lists as evidenced by the Libor Bondholders settlement when they contacted me about payout mistakenly because I did not own bonds but am on the escrow position holders list.
Coatttails
NDT, the more I think about this the more sense it makes. Why would a billionaire decide to start selling off hundreds of millions of his stock rather than just leaving the stock to his heirs? Because he thinks an upcoming event will likely tank the stock and he will lose millions. People do this all the time. It's insider trading in a way, but allowable under SEC rules.
We are close to something. Hold2wm and split T may be right. I like our chances.
NDT, exactly right. $150mm is a lot of cash to raise for someone who already is a billionaire. So why now? Why does he need so much cash? And more sales to come. This is just the first.
If you believe the bank has already been paid for and the payment is now invisible in the receivership until closed after Libor, that means there is more JPM payment to come very soon. I say that is for Libor. The FDIC has sued on behalf of the banks for $400B (the FDIC will get about 10%). Whatever the settlement is, it is still going to be a lot of money, likely at least 100B. That will reflect on the JPM stock price. It has to. So he is smart to sell some shares now. I also believe that's why we get bashers on the boards. They are JPM shareholders and hedgies, terrified that the stock price will tank on any such payment.
But it's ludicrous that being a naysayer on a stock board could possibly change the outcome. I laugh about this. It is what it is. Nothing they can do or say will change the outcome.
I agree with hold2wm that the Libor settlement will be at least 100B. I think it is more likely much more than that. How it gets divided up is another story. But I think we are getting very close to the settlement. Dimon's sale is further evidence that we are close.
IMO, we will get payment this year. As Split T said, something may be weeks away. I may be wrong because our world is so unbelievably corrupt now. But again..........Coattails!
Hold2wm's latest Libor prediction.
Thanks to him for his continued research into Libor for us.
He thinks Libor will settle for at least $114B and that could be done soon, maybe before Apr14, but at least by EOY.
I would say that if they settle for 114B our escrows could get between 50-80B. BP posters on this think 75 25 to the end of course. That would give Ps 4-6x I'm guessing. I am being conservative.
Also, way back when, Rosen said that escrows only chance to get any money might be from Libor. Well he may have been partially right back then.
My feeling is once Libor settles and those funds are distributed, the receivership can close and the big waterfall can begin. That's what the big boys are waiting for. Did JPM already pay $300B for the bank (to avoid yrs of interest) and those funds are now "invisible" (per bop) until the R closes?
On another note, Judge Buckwald being 79 may relate to many of us older investors who have waited 16 years, and she may want to make this right so we can live out our remaining years with just restitution for the wrongs that were perpetrated against us in the wrongful unjust 5th amendment taking.