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If KKR did the deal today we should see a 10K within 4 days.
It's all tied in.
and like an onion's many layers, the heart is about to be revealed.
the question is,are you patient?
do you doubt kkr? or the board with massive options?? or the hedge funds circling like vultures waiting for the kill?
as the cosmic cowboy says we all wait together.
Musical chairs is a game where a number of chairs, one fewer than the number of players, are arranged facing outward with the players standing in a circle just outside the chairs. Usually music is played while the players in the circle walk in unison around the chairs. When the music stops each player attempts to sit down in one of the chairs. The player who is left without a chair is eliminated from the game.
will you be standing or sitting when the music stops?
Ha!
.
Yes it will be a great Thanksgiving.
And an even better Christmas.
Good news abounds.
Ready?
Not politics. Reality.
She wants 45% cap gains tax. If you think this is all politics, was this too politics:
If you want to keep your plan you can keep your plan. If you want to keep your doctor you can keep your doctor. Reality!
IF...escrows get paid on 11/7:
Certain non corporate U.S. Holders (including
individuals) are generally eligible for preferential rates of U.S. federal income taxation in respect of long term capital gains (i.e., gains on a Security held for more than one year).
If escrows were to receive these funds it should be taxed as cap gains since held since 2012. 15-20%.
Note HRC plans to raise cap gains to 45% so this needs to get done quickly. $5B will pay 1/2 par but not a bad start.
We shall see if this happens.
Correct scrivener and thanks.
The "initial" amount will be around $30B. I expect an announcement any day, maybe. A payout on Nov 1 would require an announcement this week. We shall see.
Keep the faith people. WMIH will follow the escrow payout and kaboom. Something is no doubt in the works.
Yes LG, dissolve was a key word.
They did not have to reveal this but did to let us know all's in order.
They know the angst the shareholders are feeling now and wanted us to feel a sense of relief. It was a legal leak.
Has WMI been given power of attorney?
Since JPM's duty has expired did the responsibility go to WMI? Could be based on increasing volume.
Someone seems very anxious to accumulate shares now.
I expect an announcement is imminent.
Yes Christmas may come early to escrowers who released.
AZ, LG, tanja. Politics plays a role.
I believe Obama, Hillary, Warren, and Lynch will take full advantage of the positive political aspect of the payout of escrow funds to shareholders, saying the seizure was a travesty of the previous administration. This release will provide them with huge political capital. This will also infuse revenue into the economy at a time when Hillary sorely needs a boost.
If I am right, we can expect activity any time now.
Yes. Nothing is certain but death and taxes, but it appears clearly in the documents that the assets are there. How can anyone deny this at this point? How much and when is the question.
Many billions is big news if that's what comes back. That's a huge story, so it will be big news as well as a political issue.
They may try to bury this somehow to avoid the public furor. That can be done by giving stock in lieu of cash initially. The rest can come in dribs and drabs over time.
AZ, I do think politics will play a role in the escrow saga.
I think the current admin will want to take credit for paying back the shareholders, saying that this will infuse revenue into the economy and create jobs. Why wouldn't they? They don't want Trump to get this credit should he be elected. I expect a substantial (not all) portion will be released soon. Remember too that the hedgies involved are buddies of Obama and he needs cash for his "library".
LG I agree any day now.
I say the recent action and volume in WMIH is an early indicator by insiders that something big is a foot. $20-30B is now a no brainer IMO but it is likely much much more based on the docs. Good luck to the longs on WMIH as well as the escrow holders. Wont be long now.
LG, no longer if but when.
It is clear there are indeed billions coming based on the docs. When is the question. Bop says after elections because of the outrage it will cause. Most others say before, and I am in that camp. The big boys in control of this saga want their money while taxes are favorable. Under clinton it could be a much higher rate and they know it.
JWW: this is a news driven stock. I like technicals but while they have some merit with WMIH, generally it is going to be news that determines the course of a stock like this. Any news and it could go through the roof despite technicals.
Something big coming soon!
I agree AZ. We are close indeed.
The DB deal is done, the last impediment.
Now it is blue sky time. I expect to see something crossing our accounts any day.
Keep the faith people. Hope you released.
The reason there has been no M&A is clear.
They too are awaiting the big escrow dollars, not just for the 2.5% they get of the pot, but because they know there will be large investments made back into WMIH from escrow holders eager to make the new company a success. A win win for everyone.
Escrow payouts will occur in stages.
This is not going to happen in one big event of waterfall. The first likely payout of ~ $1.8B (ironic number isn't it?) will happen first of course because it's already sitting there. This equates to $180 per P. Not bad but no where near what we WILL get. This will also "test" the account waters to be sure all disbursements are accurate and all SH accounts are in order. After that the real money begins to flow. Who knows how much and how long this will take. I say minimum $35B and could be enormous if justice prevails and we get what we are due. Of course we have a huge corruption factor to deal with as well as general inefficiency that prevails these days unabated.
Good luck all. We are going to see activity in our accounts, finally!
5 year wait to withdraw from Roth...
I think you'd be better off pulling out your money and paying the 15-20% cap gains and re-investing the money rather than waiting 5 yrs to try to avoid tax. IMO.
Just more housekeeping to tidy things up before kaboom time. This is going to start getting very interesting now that the DB is over with.
NOLs could go away in her new tax plan.
Companies may not be able to use NOLs, period. many companies are worried about this.
My CPAs contention is cap gains on escrows.
Since the escrows have been held since 2012 my tax expert feels the payout can be successfully argued that the gain will be taxed as capital gains and NOT ordinary income. Be careful you don't pay the IRS more than you need to. They will get plenty anyway. The first $450K is taxed at 15% and all after that is 20%. This could increase considerably in a hillary administration. Trump will tax all cap gains at 15%.
"How is a holder taxed on its LTI?
Very generally, a holder is taxed as if
directly receiving the income, gain,
deduction or loss on its portion of the underl
ying assets of the Liquidating Trust.
Therefore, a holder must take into account
in the determinatio
n of its own taxable
income for U.S. federal income tax purposes
its allocable share of any income earned
by the Liquidating Trust (other than with
respect to the Liquidating Trust Claims
Reserve), regardless of whether a co
ntemporaneous or commensurate cash
distribution is made to the holder by the
Liquidating Trust."
A deal will likely be done before elections.
As it looks likely hillary will win and increase taxes significantly an M&A needs to be completed very quickly now in order to close it this year.
Low volume indicator.
Many just concentrate on high volume as a future indicator but sudden low volume is just as telling. Remember the huge volume in recent weeks?
Smart money often will stay away from buying when they know an announcement is coming to avoid SEC scrutiny.
My guess is we are close to some sort of action, whether M&A or escrow or both.
This small volume indicates something is in the offing now.
Oh there's plenty left, believe me.
!00% confident. I just don't think escrow payout is going to happen next week but will happen when we least expect it.
I doubt anything is imminent with escrows...at least in the short term. If something was happening behind the scenes now we'd be seeing smart money movement in WMIH sp and nothing's happening. Stagnant.
When WMIH starts to move again with volume maybe, but for now I'd say it will be a while yet.
I do think they want to try to wrap as much up as possible this year since taxes will increase.
A deal of this magnitude (escrows) will take time. But they did say WMIIC is going bye bye so we may be closer than any of us think.
AZCOWBOY....I understand the angst here by many who are frustrated by the lack of action from WMI board as well as zero info on escrows, but....
Those of us who have read the docs and have done our DD are 100% confident that there's light at the end of this tunnel. I appreciate your steadfast efforts.
I know how close we are........
Blackrock likely knows far more than $6B is in play with WAMU. :)
As AZ said, a once in 200 year event for those who released.
Biggest stock investment in history by far. Final totals will be very interesting.
I anticipate $10-20B cash in the first installment with much more over the next two years.
Nope. Non releasers have no recourse.
While it's tragic if investors didn't get the release done in time, legal action will not hold up and no lawyer would even waste their time trying. The court would say simply, that investors are responsible for their own financial activities, and that the judge gave ample response time. There is nothing that they can do at this time. yes, sad for many. Others were just stubborn and thought they'd fight it. It was an unwinnable fight from the start. best thing they can do now is invest in WMIH, because its rise will be meteoric once all transpires. This will be a good way for them to be on the WMI train and still reap huge rewards IMO.
Many did not release.
The ruling that came down was confusing to many who did not have legal or financial background. Some posters on the Y board recommended that people fight the ruling in court instead of releasing. That was horrible advice. Walrath made it very clear to people that if you did not release you lost all future recourse.
That coupled with the very limited time made many stand pat, and they missed the window to release. Very sad.
Escrows will receive huge payout IMO.
Look, I understand those who didn't release and their frustration. I also understand the angst of JPM investors here who think that their stock will plunge when they return billions of assets. This is not the case. In fact, JPM may go up when the FDICR releases the assets because JPM HAS AN ENORMOUS AMOUNT OF STOCK AND ESCROWS FROM THIS DEBACLE, SO THEY WILL SEE HUGE GAINS.
I suggest a few things IN CASE the escrows do get paid:
Secure your escrow accounts, keep the info up to date, and change passwords often.
Tell NO ONE about the possibility of your gains or they will start thinking of ways they can get it from you! Money changes people, and your best friends and family will come after you, trust me.
Start thinking about what financial counselor you will use and how you will invest and secure your wealth if it happens.
Think about charities you can help. I have more escrows than I may need myself for instance, much more than I will ever need in this lifetime, so the majority will go into a foundation for charitable contributions. Think about giving back if you get more than you need. many people hurting. And don't forget about animals that are also hurting at rescues due to the bad economy. Help them.
Best of luck. We shall see what happens.
While Walrath was viewed as demonic at the time, her brilliant work keeping shareholders alive and giving us access to escrows saved our bacon.....at least those who released.
Now I will say I truly feel sorry for those who did NOT release. I was almost one of them. It was confusing and they didn't give us much time to file the paperwork, which was also confusing. That's why there is so much bitterness today on these boards from those who did not release. Think of how they will feel when we are rewarded for our release and they get nothing. It's sad and for most of them through no fault of their own. It was a confusing mess.
Yes LG, the process is beginning, finally.
The comment that WMIIC is being unwound is the biggest statement yet. It's amazing that so many cannot understand that.
And the FDIC meeting on 8/16 could spell the end of the DB suit....the last hurdle. Then the asset value will be determined and escrow payments can begin. This will happen in phases, over time. I believe the reason WMI has not done a deal to now is that they want to couple the deal with the escrow payout. The 2.5% is not the reason. They know vast amounts of said payout will immediately flow back to WMI by investors receiving escrow $, which gives them the financial leverage to do a much larger deal. This is why the delay. Makes perfect sense.
If you had done your DD you'd know the answers. Ha!
Ask yourselves this:
Why is WMIIC being unwound?
Why has the FDICR not been closed for this case?
Why was there the 20 million share day recently?
Why has the volume been increasing the last few weeks?
Why did the board not take options in this period?
Well over $200B being raised, for what?
Paying down debt, and purchase of assets. Verrrrrry interesting.
We should know something next week as we head towards Aug 1 distribution date. Could be nothing but it certainly appears that something very large COULD be up.