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True Bob and I still have hope for something.
But if a deal with the UW or a large distribution to escrows was in the works, I believe there would be leaks.
I still have my eye on 11/1 significance but certainly something sooner is possible.
I am a bit skeptical about 9/26 having earthshattering importance.
Why? If as we speculate there is money to be announced, a deal with UW, etc., there would definitely be leaks.
If there were leaks we would see movement in COOP now. Big movement. And its not happening.
Just trying to keep it real. I say 11/1 is likely to be more significant.
Hope I am wrong about 9/26, but I doubt it. If COOP suddenly rockets, then I'll believe.
For now, we wait for something concrete. Just tired of the speculation and passing dates with zero happening.
Savitz from Greywolf is a good guy.
One thing we have in our favor is we have tough business guys like him and Tepper. Without them involved retail might have been screwed.
And for those who think the hedge funds got envelopes under the table, just stop. Ludicrous. They aren't out to shut out retail! They own 70% of the pie. No way are they going to take a chance of a whistleblower sending them to prison. They will gladly let us have our 30% of the pie.
To put 800,000 Ps in perspective.
If this were to be 75 25 to the end as some postulate, for every $10B that comes back, each guy would get $800 million.
Now, for those who think those guys threw in the towel and wrote escrows off as a lost cause, think again.
Escrows will do just fine IMO.
Yes, 800,000 Ps.
I'd have to go back through my files, but Tepper holds 800,000 P escrows, and either Bonderman or Savitz owns 850,000.
This is documented, not BS.
So, why did they buy so many if they thought they were worthless. Secondly, with those massive holdings, where the hell are they.
My guess is logical. They knew the bk would take 10 yrs. The last year was just slogging the process through the mud to clean up housekeeping items and milking of the LT by you know who.
Once the bk is closed the floodgates will open. And if they don't the hedgies will let the dogs out.
Hang on. I may be wrong but we should see some interesting things in the next few months.
The hedge funds silence is deafening.
So these big boys have 800,000 Ps each. Yet we haven't heard a peep out of them. Very strange.
If I potentially had hundreds of millions on the line I would be doing some intense digging with my attorneys.
So, why aren't they raising hell?
I think the answer is simple. They are confident in the coming result. They know where the buried treasure is and how much is there.
Either that or they are the lamest hedge fund managers in history.
I think it's the former.
Quiet confidence.
Did you read the letter?
It said no information while there is ongoing litigation.
Duh!
Fairly astute summary.
Based on the FDIC letter to porkchop, I do believe the bop litigation is holding this up.
Thanks bop. Your self serving interests to milk an extra 3 million has created a hardship on the rest of us. Good job, but typical for a lawyer.
AZ, yepper that's correct.
And if there was nothing the judge would have made a statement to the estate about that.
And if there was nothing the UW team of lawyers would not have attended Alice's meaningless hearing.
And on and on. Baffles me that so many still believe that JPM got it all for pocket change.
Haha tony. Really?
wamuq, Commons
wampq, Preferreds. face $1000
wamkq Preferreds. Face $25
wahuq Wahu is a fish. :)
Split T, me too. LOL
Wonder if they bleachbit the asset list.
Why not? It's worked before.
How will Brian Hotmeat Rosen report this to Dimon?
Once Barr's staff starts digging into this mess and the media catches on it will make the Epstein and Hillary fiascos look like kindergarten classes.
Payments, please.
Split T, I saw your post.
It is baffling to me that some believe that JPM got it all for 1.8B, including all assets of WMB and WMI.
That would obviously be an unfair taking and 5th amendment violation.
So, someone has some splaining to do. If this is not made right after the closing of the bk, the justifiable lawsuits will be overwhelming.
My feeling is, those who perpetrated this seizure know that things need to be settled fairly, or once all is challenged and revealed in court people will be going to prison.
I expect resolution. These nefarious actors may be ruthless but they are not stupid.
Who knows what the final number will be.
But I do know this. We will get paid. Fair and reasonable is NOT $20 million!
My feeling is it will come in stages/payments over time. Fine with me.
Best of luck to all who released. I feel badly for those who did not, but life is about choices, fair or not.
Let's just get this damn thing over with!
Pick, so you don't think the hedgies and UW know anything?
They know EXACTLY what is in Pandora's box. If you don't believe that by now you might as well go lay down someplace. Seriously. You don't think JPM has to show the books? Haha. Funny.
After the bk closes, the hedgies lawyers will be on this case like a pitbull on a poodle.
Relax and enjoy the ride.
Mr. Meat. The WMI assets were not under the auspices of WAMU.
You said:
The theory is relatively simple in that it is 100% confirmed that WAMU retained interests in it's securitizations, but, what is still unclear is whether those interests were pledged to WMI.
You sound confused here.
WMI's assets were owned by WMI. WAMU did not have authority to tell the holding company what they could or could not do, as you assert.
Therefore, the WMI assets were put into safe harbor, regardless of what happened to WAMU. Period.
You are correct that said assets could be released after the bk closes. I say there ARE assets and those will be released to the estate after the bk closes by EOY.
You said:
If yes, it's just a matter of waiting for the bankruptcy process to close, which should allow the respective Trustees to recontinue making distributions to the current holders of WMI Equity; ie, our Markers.
Correctamundo.
Mr. Meat. Your large holdings of P's will do quite well. :)
If Judge Walrath KNEW that there were no assets and no money coming back, it would be her fiduciary duty as judge to say that in court during bop's hearing. She said nothing of the sort.
LG, certainly anything is possible.
I like to err on the side of being conservative because so many dates have come and gone with no success. I think my plan is most likely, but we could see a completely different scenario.
I also have faith that, if payment isn't made, Barr's people can start digging into this mess to hold those accountable for the theft of these assets. That's why I think we will get paid. No way does Dimon and those others want to go through that type of investigation. It would get very ugly.
tony t, my two cents on the process moving forward:
Next month's hearing is crucial, but we don't yet know what will transpire on the 26th. Time will tell. My guess is this is the beginning of the wrap up.
Then Nov 1 will conclude the LT's role, with a likely small payout to escrows. After that the bk can close by EOY. I believe the judge wants this off her docket once and for all. If (as we believe and as documents prove) there is asset money it can be disbursed any time after Nov 1. Could start sooner than that but I am being conservative.
I believe that the hedge funds are just waiting for the bk to close. Then they will see what happens with payments from assets. If payments do not happen I fully expect an onslaught of lawsuits by the hedge funds. They and the UW know what lies behind the curtain and they all want their money. Us too, as we ride their coattails.
So, my best guess at this point is, a small payout on 11/1, bk close out, then payments to escrows from assets....otherwise the lawyers swoop in from the big boys to raise holy hell.
Also remember the intense corruption we all are up against. The sinister players that I believe to be involved, Holder, Obama, Bair, Paulson, Dimon, et. al., will do all they can to hold on to this heist...the financial crime of the century.
So says the holder of many Ps.
LOL
Technical analysis is valid for some stocks, but not all.
COOP is one that it does NOT apply to, because it will be an event driven explosion when it happens. Nothing to do with technicals. Whether you think COOP has formed a golden shower or not is irrelevant.
When the cascade of events begins, you will see.
Watching the next couple of months very closely. So are our hedgie buddies. When the bk closes, BAMM.
So much fun in the offing. As long as you released.
You have Ps?
Yes, and I own Trump Tower.
So how will Ps be satisfied if Qs get all the loot.
One guess is Ps are replaced with new COOP preferreds valued at $1000, and, each P will be given 49 Qs.
Another is, if Ps are now valued at around $3000, the new COOP preferreds could be valued at $3000. That makes for a nice clean exchange.
Since the big boys each have 800,000 Ps, they will not settle for much less or there will be some serious legal action.
Ron? AZ?
Delay delay delay.
Dear mom. Please send more money so I can get a shot at making 3 million. Thank you.
LIBOR announcement on 9/26?
Well, we have been told, as I said, to keep an eye on wmitrust.com
Now, Rosen has repeatedly said that no asset funds are coming to escrows (through the LT of course).
So, what else is there? A measly 20 million? BFD.
My guess for 9/26 is either some asset money has been "found", or there is some news re LIBOR.
There is nothing else to report. And the LT did tell us they were looking into LIBOR. We shall see.
Have a great weekend. Things looking up.
AZ is right. COOP is the indicator of good things ahead. Had a great conversation this week. ;)
COOP is extremely undervalued. 12 will hit soon enough.
News to hit soon. Very soon. Watch wmitrust.com
I believe Dmdmd Ron and AZ are correct.
The questions remain, when and how much. The corruption is overwhelming in this case but facts are facts. The documents don't lie. They never do.
Thanks to all who provide their factual DD. We are close to big things. Very close.
A well capitalized bank and holding company worth hundreds of billions.
How was this seizure possible?
Obviously it was done by very powerful people who were just too big to fail.
Let's hope justice prevails.
Yep, there are people here who don't want the spider around. Well, get over it.
Facts are facts. What a tangled web.....I am here to stay.
Thanks WAMUSHAMU.
Maybe it's starting to hit the fan. I suggest the boys start making some payments to escrows or they will soon be covered in it.
Dimon doesn't want to get Epstein'd. That 30B he "found" would be a good start.
If there are no assets and no money coming back, let me ask you this.
Why did the underwriters send a throng of high paid lawyers to bopfans hearing if there was nothing? Did they want to pay them to attend just to throw some money at them to have a nice vacation or for a Christmas fund for family gifts?
Look people, I get the frustration and angst and I feel your pain. I have it too.
But to say there is nothing there is just plain ludicrous.
Well Mr. Meat, we have something in common.
I appreciate intelligent, informed discourse. While we don't agree on the payout, there may be more common ground than we think. Now if you go back to the premise of $2-10B, and tweak it upwards a bit, we could actually go have a beer together.
I would be sorely disappointed in 2B, but 10B would make life interesting for most retailers I think. I still expect much more. :)
The FED screwed up by not lowering by 50 pts. The markets needed that. It was a bad decision and Trump knew it.
Expect another rate cut very soon.
I think it will come in payments, like dividends.
Maybe a couple billion at a time. If they disburse large sums it would draw too much attention.
Makes sense. The first salvo could be the 20 million or so left over in the LT when the bk closes. That disbursement will test the systems and verify all accounts.
IMO
Looks like some worry about my pro escrow presence here.
The attacks are telling. Oh well, guess what.....you're stuck with me!
Another one that needs reading comp classes.
Dimples, now is not the time to throw in the towel. We are down to the nitty gritty.
Remember the hedgies are watching this grand finale even closer than we are, and their lawyers are ready to pounce.
Relax and enjoy the ride.
The astute researchers here have done excellent DD and have proven there are many billions stashed that rightfully belong to the estate.
My growing concern is the political, financial, and market upheaval that could have a very detrimental effect on escrows chances. Add to that the unbelievable amount of corruption we face these days.
Despite the headwind, I am confident escrows will get paid. It just might not be quite as massive as we are due.
Sources don't trust those who expose.
Suffice it to say it is solid info.
Nothing earth shattering though as well all know things are developing quickly in the next month or two.