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Really?
Thanks!
Seems to me that Dino Hunter is #1 on the list and KK is #3?
https://www.apple.com/itunes/charts/free-apps/
Or am I looking in the wrong place
Where is everyone?
Thank you. Still think its a fishy low rate, but hey, don't look a gift horse in its mouth.
Check-mate. You win.
What you are saying would make a lot of sense if it would fit the wording of the 8k. It does not. Maybe it's just bad wording though.
According to your explanation, if Lily will be able to fully pay back the loan, on time, how is the lender going to make more than 1.25% per annum? There is no way they are giving such a low rate
As I assume you know, interest has 2 components:
Risk-free rate (which is for the time value of money).
Risk-premium
will receive 45% of Lily Group and a lien on Lily Group's assets together with royalties and/or dividends at the rate of 1.25% per annum
I read your reply; according to that, if the loan is fully repaid (as we expect it will be), the effective annual yield will be 1.25%. You seriously believe that?!
I was in sub-penny to .02. A few more at .06-.07. Very green, as you said.
I am not telling anyone to sell. I am merely trying to give an accurate perspective on what this 8k is saying -- I do not understand how intelligent people on this board can really believe we just got a loan at 1.25%?! It is in reality much more than that.
My 'glass half empty' perspective is called playing devils advocate. I like to hear what you and others have to say; I hope someone (as MasterBidder has done very well) can give me better perspective. But if I hear something that does not make sense to me, I will call it out!
No, then why would lily even consider buying them back? If lily does not exercise the option to buy them back then I presume the lender can then sell on the open market. Or to another investor. Basically, not buying it back would be equivalent to dilution.
I have been long as long as everyone here, if not longer. Have been following this board for many months. Just never posted.
I agree with you on the fundamentals.
What I disagree with you on, and the wording of the 8k does nothing to support your claim, is that the 45% comes into play only if Lily defaults. That would anyways make no sense because, as I pointed out, then lily would only be paying 1.25% -- too good to be true!
'Consideration' is not the same as 'collateral'.
1.25% PLUS any market appreciation. So if we valuate the company to be worth ~145M, and the stock goes up to reflect that, we then have to pay back the original 65M*1.0125^10, and buy back the shares for another ~65M. That is over 113% over 10 years, which is effectively an ~8%/annum rate.
Obviously we all want the company to do this well -- it would make us all rich. However, I am just pointing out that this is a worse deal than the original if taking numbers-only into account.
However, as MasterBidder pointed out, there are other benefits to doing it this way.
So according to you (and everyone else posting similarly), the lender is giving this loan with the possibility of only earning 1.25% per annum?! Not a chance -- you can even get a CD at a higher rate than that.
I do agree that this is a good thing. Just not as good as people are saying it is. I'm long and have always been long.
Of course I understand that.
My point is that people are treating this like a loan when in reality it's dilutive financing. Which is worse than the original deal we had.
I don't believe the 45% is merely a lein. If that's the case, the only return on investment the lender will get would be 1.25% annually for 10yrs! That can do much better than that with much less risk! Heck, you can get a 10yr CD for a better rate. Makes no sense
They are named as an 'investor'. They are getting 45% of the company and are giving us option of buying it back. Basically, we are giving up 45% of our cap appreciation for the loan. Think of it as dilution, it's the same thing
Nah, it says
together with royalties and/or dividends at the rate of 1.25% per annum"
Terrible wording as well:
We have the right to buy back the equity in Lily Group at the end of any calendar year, on the basis of the fair market valuation of the outstanding
Who is 'we'? There is no 'we' here; It is between 'Lily Group' and 'the Investor'?
Anyways, I don't get it; this seems a terrible deal to me
If we have to buy it back at the future fair market price, how is that equivalent to a collateral? It is giving away part of our company, but maintaining the option to buy it back. We can take a significant loss if market price increases to say, $1/share ($100M market cap).
Seems equivalent to 100% dilution to me, but with the option to buy it back.
I'm confused. Is the 45% of the company a collateral or are we giving away 45% of our company for the 'loan'? Seems to me from the wording:
As consideration, the Investor will receive 45% of Lily Group and a lien on Lily Group's assets, together with royalties and/or dividends at the rate of 1.25% per annum. We have the right to buy back the equity in Lily Group at the end of any calendar year, on the basis of the fair market valuation of the outstanding
that it is the latter?! Note that this is an equity agreement, not a loan agreement.
Please correct me if I'm incorrect in my understanding.
:eyeroll: this is a typical dump. I do believe this a real company but the pumpers merely used this to their advantage. They already made over 100k off this. Stop buying!
I think he is a player on this board. Wanted to sell-off, then saw the backlash 700k shares was causing (and was afraid of a stand-off at .08-.1), so switched to an ETrade reserve sale thinking he would fool buyers at .11. He succeeded; however, even .11 is a bargain.
Definitely that 700k fool. Does anyone else think it can be an insider taking profits?
There is no .171 on level II