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The work at 30 military bases has to be a game changer for UGSI exposure and acceptance. So, why isn't the stock doing something?
Although I am retired, I talked with an engineer friend yesterday about pipeline installation costs. An installation has a ton of variables that impact costs such as overall size of contract (bigger= cheaper per ft.), difficulty of installation (soil conditions, depth, utilities to avoid, rights of way, etc.). He showed me some bids for an 8-inch diameter water line installation in 2007 that ranged from $31 to $48 per ft. So basically, I think with inflation, the lowest cost per ft in decent installation conditions today probably exceeds $50 per ft. Difficult installations could easily double that. One of the main attractions to UGSI is their "trenchless" installation, basically installing under obstacles by boring. So, it is difficult to put a number on what UGSI got paid for the 5M feet of installation.
I'm in. Going to try to pick up more tomorrow. At least get my average price below .18.
Thanks for answering my question. Now if we could just get some action.
What value do stock holders have now if the stock goes public? Could the company just ignore current stockholders when they issue an IPO (if that ever happens)? Would currently held stock be separate from IPO issued stock?
Great letter, coincides with 0 volume today. Seems like something should be happening.
Thunderman,
Thanks for answering my question. You have been a great addition to the forum.
Can someone explain the IPO (initial public offering?)would work with existing shareholders? Thanks
zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz! sorry, this stock has put me to sleep.
Here is a summary of the changes in the AWWA standard that includes fused joints. This is on the AWWA bookstore site. I hope it is a good omen for UGSI:
Major changes to this version of ANSI/AWWA C605 include the addition of
PVCO
Soil classification requirements
Trenchless construction requirements
The use of fused joints
Tapping sleeves and valve requirements
Butt fusion inspection requirements
Notice of nonconformance requirements
Notice of potential need for patent-protected inventions to comply with the standard
I do think the AWWA inclusion of fused joints in its standards eliminates the competitor whining that UGSI has suffered from in the past. Time will tell, but I think this is a very positive step for the future growth of UGSI. Engineers will now be able to select fused joining of pipe and have a standard to back up their decision. Before, engineers may have been afraid to risk liability using fused joints. Now they can point to the standard.
As you all may recall, UGSI had some issues in the past with the acceptability of their fused jointing system, mostly bad publicity from competitors. The AWWA standard was re-written to include a standard (C605)for fused joints. I have been waiting to hear from AWWA regarding the release of the new standard publication. I got an email from Tim McCandless from AWWA stating that the publication is now available through the AWWA bookstore at 800-926-7337. What this basically means is that engineers can now refer to an AWWA standard for fused joints. That should greatly increase the acceptance of UGSI products among engineers and hopefully generate a great increase in their use. Should help UGSI move quickly forward. Hope so.
Thanks for your input from the financial and investment view. My input in the past has been from the water supply perspective and I am still hopeful that the new AWWA standards, when published sometime early next year, will give a boost to the acceptance of USGI fused joints among engineers. I am looking to that event as something very positive for UGSI.
Huge volume and down price. Any clues out there?
Bigger volume and lower price. Wonder what insider knows something we don't.
I contacted AWWA regarding the C605 standard that is supposed to include fused joints for PVC. It was originally supposed to be published this year. The response was:
Sorry for the delay Dan. C605 is still being reviewed by ANSI, so we can’t publish it yet. Hopefully it will be available in February or March 2014. The response came from:
Tim McCandless
Standards Engineer
American Water Works Association
6666 West Quincy Avenue
Denver, CO 80235-3098
Phone: 303-347-6285
Fax: 303-795-7603
tmccandl@awwa.org
Has anyone heard whether or not the new AWWA standards have come out with the written "installation standard for fusible joints?" It was due out sometime this year. I am still holding out that the inclusion in written AWWA standards will help UGSI's marketing to engineers. If nobody knows, I will follow up with AWWA.
I like all the information being posted. I appreciate those who work to find this stuff.
Thanks for posting this. Makes me wonder what Andy is thinking. Will he bail? Also makes me think about water company manipulations. Seems like the history of US Filter, Seimens and all the others were moved around like a shell game just to make the manipulators rich. Do any of them have a real interest in making a sound, productive, successful industry or just want to feed off of sales and stock prices (by having inside information). Probably the truth is locked in Board Room meetings.
How do you find this stuff?
thanks
dan
I agree that Andy's letter is odd because it did not mention the inclusion of fused joints in AWWA standards. His letter is a rehash of all the letters past. Throwing the dog a bone. Things are great but the stock lies dormant. The bottom line is that what really goes on at UGSI is a secret that never leaves the board room.
Just offering it to the UGSI cheerleader group.
It all sounds great but the stock doesn't go anywhere. For those that have great faith in Andy and the stock, I have lots of shares on the block at .35. Put your money in your faith. I'm ready to leave this dog and that usually is a sure sign it will break out into something great. I think I have been in over 10 years.
Interestingly enough, the article leads to a project I work on as a semi-retired hydrogeologic consultant. There is a link at the bottom of the article about "fight over Vegas Pipeline" where the Southern Nevada Water Authority (SNWA)is proposing a pipeline to northern Nevada basins hundreds of miles long to pump groundwater from those basin to Las Vegas. Estimates of cost for the project range to over $15 billion. Of course the people living in those northern basins are mostly opposed to the "Las Vegas Water Grab." I set up a ground water monitoring program in basins adjacent to the ones already targeted by SNWA for water export. My data will provide baseline water-levels for future reference should the SNRWA expand their water hunt.
The agency I work for (Central Nevada Regional Water Authority) has a conference (Great Basin Water Forum)every year in October about western water issues and this year will be a very interesting one in Bishop California and the focus will be the 100th anniversary of the Los Angeles project to pump water from the Owens Valley. I believe the Forum will be a significant historical gathering of people for and against long pipeline projects. There will be a tour the day before of the Owens Valley project and speakers will include strong desalinization supporters as a better alternative to groundwater pumping and long pipelines. The Forum is free and information about it is on the CNRWA website.
Thanks for showing this article. I have no doubt the aging infrastructure in the US will require billions in repairs and replacements but it seems I have heard that same plea many years ago while UGSI still drifts around the same price.
Private acquisition of public utilities isn't always a good thing. I worked in a public utility that had to rescue over 30 small, private water systems that were built on the cheap, hired a "guy" to run them (usually a retired utility worker)and bailed when the systems needed significant upgrades. Public utilities were then forced to take over the failing systems, bring them up to standards and operate them. Ironically, once fixed up, private utility companies began knocking on the door to buy them.
Thanks everybody. I guess that new motorcycle can wait a little longer.
Help! After owning UGSI for probably 8 years and under my average purchase price I am considering bailing out. Someone please convince me to hang in there! How can this drag out so long with so little information about a future?
As I promised, I asked a couple of my former co-worker engineers about the AWWA including fused joints in standards expected to be published later this year. There is a good description of the standard on the USGI website under "engineering" and under "AWWAC900/AWWAC905." This means that the pipe meets standards of quality and construction as tested by the AWWA. The C605 standard is an "installation" standard. In the past other coupling methods such as "bells and gaskets" are specifically described in this standard but "fused" joints were not. It did not mean that "fused" joints could not be used, only that the standard did not specifically describe them. The new AWWA standard, expected to be released later this year is expected to include verbiage about "fused" joints, which I think will give engineers more confidence to use them. The only uncertainty I think at this point is that I believe the proposed standards are now being circulated around the industry and engineering profession for comments. That leaves the door open for competitors to try and roadblock fused joints from being included. I guess we will see sometime this year.
I cannot answer for sure but I believe you are correct. I worked in water resources as a hydrogeologist (I did the well design and testing) and worked alongside engineers that did the design for the distribution systems so I am not certain. I am retired but still have a couple of engineer former coworkers I can ask. I will pose your question to them next week.
I made another attempt to get AWWA to give more details about the acceptance of fused joints in their standards. I asked when and if the joints will be accepted in the standards for sure. I can't seem to get a direct answer but for what it's worth, this is the response:
"Dan, we hope to have C605 approved this year."
I am getting more positive about the acceptance in the standards of fused joints being a boom to UGSI. We will have to wait and see but it seems this year may be a milestone.
FYI
I emailed AWWA and asked about them including fused joints in their standard and what it might mean. I was hoping for at least a date the new standard will come out. So,this response still leaves some uncertainty, although it suggests fused joint approval is coming. This is the response:
Hi Dan,
Fused joints have been proposed for inclusion in our PVC pipe installation standard. But, at this point in time, the standard is still in the development process and not available for publication. Hope this is of some assistance.
Tim McCandless
Standards Engineer
American Water Works Association
6666 West Quincy Avenue
Denver, CO 80235-3098
Phone: 303-347-6285
Fax: 303-795-7603
I agree with you Sewer Dog. I went back and re-read Andy's letter and it said the AWWA will"specifically reference fused joints as an acceptable design for joining PVC pipe" later this year. The decision for us as shareholders is to decide if that a significant milestone for the company. Is it really just minor or is it like a new drug getting FDA approval? One part of me is telling me to accumulate more UGSI because it will explode their market and the other part is saying it may not mean much. I think the bottom line is that it is definitely a positive and difinitive end to a struggle that UGSI has had for years defending their product.
Hi all.
What happened to Andy's letter? I like to go back and re-read it looking for clues I may have missed before. I wanted to know exactly when the AWWA will add the UGSI pipe to their approved catagory.
I have been thinking about your question and it seems obvious on the surface that the AWWA acceptance would open up large new markets for UGSI products. However, the comment in Andy's letter didn't seem to do much to the stock. I worked in the water utility business for over 30 years and even saw a UGSI representative give a presentation to our engineering staff (probably 5 or 6 years ago-maybe longer). The presentation was very good and it motivated me to buy the stock for many reasons. The presenter was great and he made me feel like the company was working very hard to promote it's products and build a future. The engineers, while seemingly impressed, acted like engineers. They are a bunch reluctant to change, especially if a new product they chose fails and it becomes a liability issue. The engineers didn't seem to be willing to diverge from standard products even if the UGSI product seemed a good one. I think it was shortly after the presentation that there were coordinated attacks against the UGSI product from competing products that forced UGSI to spend more time defending itself. I felt that UGSI was still headed up because each year Andy's letter indicated new customers and growth, hoping they would slowly eat into the reluctant market and gain acceptance. Many years later and many positive letters from Andy and we are still at the same place or lower. Now to answer your question (my opinion only), I think the AWWA acceptance will boost UGSI because it takes some of the liability directly off the engineer. They can always fall back on the AWWA acceptance as a defense, something they did not have before. So, I guess we will see when the AWWA acceptance actually happens.