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That is the best thing I heard from you in a while and I agree!! Those gut feelings are better than the copy and paste comments!!
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Escrow, my view is COOP will be bigger than WaMu (350B) was at its largest. They are now similar to JPM snd is a Government favorite entity that will be getting its payback through Fanny and Freddie as the Government downsizes them.
Between now and the next three years you will see Coop in strong triple digit numbers and growing but of course, all in my personal view.
LG
LOL Pick you are gonna have to post that several hundred times before it can be understood... if you are lucky!!
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The 75/25 crap is for LTI again we will split less 40 million 75/25. Also the split is documented only agreed in Por 7 assets. Bop will not resolve crap.
Due to some posters I got tired of hearing their expertise on the subject and found some facts on line in case someone is interested. Please someone correct me if this is wrong!
Trust preferred securities are also known as hybrid securities which share both debt and equity characteristics. They could also be treated as Tier 1 Capital which include only company common stock. The most obvious advantage is to raise common equity capital for regulatory purposes while deducting the interest payment for tax purposes. The trust preferred securities do not have a dilutive effect on the company’s common shareholders and financial results.
Now I am not an expert but this tells me trust preferred securities are tied up to equity! since the purpose of trust preferred securities is to raise Tier 1 capital
Tier 1 capital is the core measure of a bank's financial strength from a regulator's point of view. It is composed of core capital,[1] which consists primarily of common stock and disclosed reserves (or retained earnings),[2] but may also include non-redeemable non-cumulative preferred stock
The trust preferred securities, together with any other cumulative preferred stock issued by the bank holding company, may only account for 25% of the holding company’s Tier 1 capital.
I wonder how in this scenario preferreds could be the owners of the estate or have any special privileges. LMAO!
In order to satisfy the control requirements necessary for the trust to be treated as a consolidated subsidiary for financial reporting purposes, the holding company must purchase common securities of the trust with a value equal to at least 3% of the trust’s total assets.
Ummm again looks like common shares are important for everything
If there is a default, any payments received by the trustee must be paid to the trust preferred holders before any payments can be made to the common security holder, which is, of course, the holding company.
OHHHH WHAAAT Commons are the Holding company? Ummmm something does not add up Jerrry!
The trust generally has a finite term of 35 years, but may be dissolved sooner.
I wonder if that is about to happen!!
There are certain special events that may trigger a redemption of the securities. Generally, these events are a “tax event,” a “capital treatment event” and an “investment company event.” These special redemption events are designed to protect the holding company in case a change in current laws removes the advantages associated with trust preferred securities.
Now I remember AZ mentioning a tax event could this be possibly what he was refering to?
The guarantee agreement provides a guarantee of payment on the trust preferred securities, but only to the extent the trust has funds to make the payments. Therefore, the guarantee is only applicable if the holding company has made the interest payments on the debentures to the trust.
LMAO!! There was colorful intention which translates to incarceration if you dont understand that means "jail time". Preferreds were not doing commons a favor LMAO!! where the hell do u get that?? Everyone has the same right / treatment under court law we were harm as well, get your facts straight!!
NOL's BS strategy would not have been possible without commons survival. How many times do people have to tell you commons own the estate not the other way around. Look it up , you seem lost...
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"What is absolutely ludicrous is to think preferred will get 10 to 20K pps on a 1k face value preferred share."
Without this possibility, the Common holders would have DISAPPEARED, long ago.
What IS, absolutely ludicrous is to think that the Pref's would LET THE Commons live,....AND...GIVE THEM MOST OF THE MONEY????
Agreed AZ the storyline had been written and approved long ago. Everyone has been playing their part and they are not about to change the ending...
My guess is Alice will be pretty much ignored... and will have to return to wonderland
Im telling you these people are greedy as Hell they are going to lower the price umtil it bleeds no more....
I don't buy the "well we lost this one but we won many others" or " at least we made something, we bought really cheap". These people are not rich by thinking like that. When Common folk lose a quarter a dime or a penny at the supermarket by wrong pricing or lose change by accidentally dropping it on the ground rich people value every single cent they can get their hands on. These people are greedy and nothing is ever enough....
They gonna make a killing on this one, just watch
You mean to say that people like Tepper do not care about their millions of shares and that he and other hedge fund leaders could care less about their clients investment money or if those shares were rendered worthless??!!
Questions and answer all IMHO and speculation..
Which commons are you talking about? COOP common or WAMU old common?
Of course I am talking about Old common shares
If it is COOP common then it will go up on its own merit but it has nothing to do with WAMU assets.
Yes,we been thru that before we are talking about performing trusts interest which are specific to each class.
If it WAMU common then 20B is not going to return $10 - $20 per share.
I said there's got to be at least $20B.
Again we know $20B / 1.2B shares = ~$8 per old preferred share.
And by the way, show me one case when preferred continue to receive dividends after bankruptcy?
Go read AZ posts. These trusts have been generating interest since their inception 2008?? Demon and Bair miscalculated the tenacity of WAMU's executive personal which was able to hide the sausage before FDIC could get a firm grip on it..
And why there are assets outside of WMILT and yet Alice filing within WMILT can delay the distribution of "other assets"?
I never said that, I think someone else said they could potentially use that or anything else to keep holding the waterfall in case they need more time for whatever event they are preparing for.
AZ, I agree there's gotta be at least $20B and between $10 to $20 pps for commons and face value + interest for preferreds. Otherwise if would not have been worth spending money on all the ink they used to black out most of the documents related to this case and loosing the list of assets "aka The SAUSAGE ".
Simple answer for you Jerry, I always go with my gut feeling and it tells me. ==> AZ is Right <==
I have never claimed to know everything but I follow my common sense.
I blame you Jerry and hotmeat for misinterpreting the filings, lawyer jargon is not for everyone it takes practice and expertise to decipher some of those filings. Someone once said you do not have to be the smarter person in the room just stay quiet and listen to the smartest maybe you might learn a thing or two...
AZ said the 75/25 distribution ratio only pertains to the WMILT leftovers.
The performing trusts are class specific so most likely preferreds will get face value plus dividends.
It is what it is, Use your head preferreds will never get $10K to $20K per share that is ludicrous and insane....
Fact: There are a lot of WAMU Performing trusts that have been accumulating interests for 10 years!!
The question is who is/are the owners of these many trusts???
and when are they going to distribute that cash???
Quote: The WMI-LT is not involved with any Class segregated ABS-Cert Performing Trusts’ ...
AZ that makes sense "NO DISCLOURE, LET"S KEEP THIS QUIET" That is why all the inquiries to the WMILT posse have yield the same response there is no money DAH!, that was part of the plan, lets find a passive method to pay these people and sweep this under the rug....
LMAO!!, This article has nothing to do with us. The idea of common folk to reach billionaire status is so ridiculous is not even funny. These delusional ideas is what keep people frustrated on this board. People need to place both feet on the ground and have a taste of reality cause it is gonna hurt a lot falling from cloud nine....
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"Our Case is 10 Years in Making - Could This Be What Article Refers To - Read Article VERY CLOSELY
Think how large JPM is and the others in the same league and then think that JPM has only 55 of these individuals/entities which shows how very, very wealthy these people/entities are and how very large JPM is worldwide.
___________________________________
Article from Bloomberg Magazine:
It’s Billionaires at the Gate as Ultra-Rich Muscle In on Private Equity
In an era of hyper-affluence, JPMorgan and Credit Suisse cater to a super-exclusive class.
By Simone Foxman and Sonali Basak
June 11, 2018, 5:00 AM EDT
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-06-11/it-s-billionaires-at-the-gate-as-ultra-rich-muscle-in-on-private-equity
I thought this paragraph was 'interesting':
"Still, with so much money and influence at stake, bankers are pitching hard. Goldman Sachs Group Inc. has its own list of 60, counting among its clients the Reimann family’s JAB Holding Co. and the Koch brothers’ investment firm. JPMorgan, in addition to its initial 55, is watching several hundred families that are poised to enter this rarefied realm."
"JPMorgan, in addition to its initial 55, is watching several hundred families that are poised to enter this rarefied realm."
NOTE: "is watching several hundred families that are poised to enter this rarefied realm."
____________________________________
Now, read this statement again and let this sink in!
"JPMorgan, in addition to its initial 55, is watching several hundred families that are poised to enter this rarefied realm."
Now, let me ask a question, considering so how very much wealth JPM is speaking about to be in the rarefied realm, other than the US Government, wherein the United States could so much money come from to put "several hundred FAMILIES" in the rarefied realm which OBVIOUSLY has NOT HAPPENED YET?
Now think about a 350 billion dollar seized (5AT payback) organization that was being run under the cover of "legal darkness" for almost ten years (9/25/2008) with monies being segregated in court-approved registry accounts for almost ten solid years without interruption AND with very little overhead AND very few employees.
We know from filings that at least three of these accounts are at Wells Fargo that may be getting very close to dispersing to those investors who signed timely (by 3/2012) releases.
There could easily be several hundred families and may be exactly what JPM is referring to BECAUSE, yes, and unfortunately, they would have the names/accounts of investors who signed timely releases."
LG
Bullshiitt!! There is no change in any of my accounts!!
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My account has a small amount of shares too, although I see no reports or records of dividend or distribution anymore but when I saw your post I quickly looked at my account and saw the increase. I have escrow shares as well.
My uncle was in Vietnam and I did not even know it, just find out last month. Although my Uncle live thru it many lost their lives in this senseless war. Just another example of our stupid politicians wanting to stick their nose were they do not belong. The Gulf of Tonkin Incident was a cooked up story an excuse to go help the French fight their war. A war they deserved for going to invade a foreign country for monetary gain. So in a way our soldiers were fighting so that the French could get rich on rice and rubber exports. I don't buy the fighting communism war half way around the world on a small piece of land. Maybe our government wanted to show off their enormous and expensive military fleet or other new toys like agent Orange but don't get me started on that.
Thanks to all the Veterans who blindly have to go to war because our great politicians say its necessary. My uncle as many others risk their life and the well being of their families and now most live paycheck to paycheck and most times cannot even get a good paying job. What a shame!! Yet the government spent a lot of money building infrastructure in other countries and supporting them why not use that money to support the people at home especially the ones who fought for this country...
AZ u are indisputably the best analyst here!!
People stop asking questions that noone can answer,If you like since Major Banks pressumably predicted $10 pps ask him for his crystal ball....
SAPer no matter what you say he will not understand because he is stuck on Class 19 riches. You know what the real problem is? He does not have any common shares he put all his eggs on one basket and feels a little hurt...
It's all his fault!!
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"~ You Don’t Have To Be The Smartest Person In The Room, ... You Just Need To Be Smart Enough To Figure Out Who The Smart People Are ~"
Excellent Advice AZ
Crap,I thought he was gonna say before Halloween 2019!! Oh well some things never change..
Voodoo part of the reason I decided to keep my common shares and just add preferreds was thanks to you, so thanks again brotha!!
Tough times back then going against the grain since the popular believe was to trade commons for preferreds but you did not buy into that, Kudos to u!!
AZ as you said the plan is in motion noone can stop it, we just jumped the last hurdle (PIERS) and are approaching the finish line. Its been 10 years they need to close bankruptcy. COOP cannot stay iddle forever...
Key players are whispering "Well are we gonna do this already or what, the clock is ticking"
I disagree he has a duty to the shareholders it will not only damage his reputition but that check you are talking about he will no longer get.
I will tell you why noone is worried it is because they are all following a plan that was designed / stipulated a long time ago and all the key players know about it except the common folk...
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Jay is not worried because he gets his pay direct deposited in his account every 2 weeks. The only time he will worry is if the salary is not in his account. IMO!
To me SiLENCE is Golden, Silence from the Hedgies, Silence from WMILT, Silence from the Court. The stock goes from $16 to $9 on various acquisitions noone seems to be worried not even Jay. There is something BIG coming, Take Cover!!
After 10 years Im gonna go down in a Blaze of Glory...
WoW, The System is RiGged we are screwed!!
Ahhh, the CARNAGE continues!!
The shares are divided accordingly among all involved but how do you translate WMIH shares to COOP shares? The crooks know!!, don't worry...
You better pray the speculation about the various trusts in our name is right cause the WMILT has close to nothing to distribute. I highly doubt the key players here have played the silence game for 10 years for nothing in return. I refuse to believe there has been 10 years of litigation because there was no money in the coffers.
A WMILT filing would not affect the pps of COOP. I'm speculating they are walking down the price for the distribution of some disputed common shares that WMILT are holding for future distribution to people that hold escrow shares. The emerged bankrupt company WMIH and their affairs have nothing to do with COOP but do NOT forget WMIH is the parent company so COOP has to wait until WMIH affairs are in order and the Bankruptcy is closed. Once that happens COOP price will no longer be manipulated and will be able to move forward IMHO. Go read AZ Cowboy posts...
I have both escrow and POOP shares personally I plan to hit my buy trigger when I see a WMILT filing mentioning residual shares and left overs distribution.
That is too bad, you bought to soon it will keep dropping!!
JPM got interest for many years. These fu$@%#s never lose...
LOL, ok u will not get the interest!!, Does that make u feel any better??
I came to the same conclusion long ago just by using common sense. There is no way a $1000 face value preferred get $10K to $20K face value at the end of the bankruptcy process that is just ludicrous especially when the common shareholders are the owners of the estate. It just does not make sense. WillieRat and so many others had plenty of commons as well....
There is no 75/25% to the end!!
Thanks AZ we should definately watch our six with this kind of frivolous enterprises that ask for money and could potentially hurt our case rather than help. I would rather pursue a class action lawsuit with a recognized lawfirm if neccessary.
What is confusing to me is they have had years to file motions with the court and now that things seems to be winding down after 10 long years now they want to submit a motion, WHAT A JOKE!!!