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Being the second post of yours I have read, I am in complete awe of the misinformation. Abstaining from the initial post, let us re-visit.
You said if an MM does not settle all short positions at the end of the day it winds up as an FTD on the Daily Reg SHO list, to which I respond..."huh?".
While the Reg SHO list is compiled daily, it is for those trades that failed to deliver t+3 in the case of traders and t+13 in the case of MMs. I couldn't stop laughing when it was stated that if an account is not completely reconciled each day that it gets on Reg SHO list.
As far double-counting trades, you don't seem to understand this either. While most big trades are shown individually, it is true that sometimes these big trades are trades-in-waiting as one MM amasses either buys or sells and waits for another MM to trace them to, via another buyer or seller, but it does not show as a new trade. Only the initial trade hits the tape. The behind-the-scenes reconciliations are not counted in the daily volume.
But it sounded good.
Ah ok. Then you are aware of brokers who allow borrows to short on penny stocks. I assume at a reasonable fee?
No argument about SPNG fraud. More convinces each post read that there was fraud on both sides of the fence.
While trying to dispel, you are actually corroborating.
Your post actually contradicts itself many times. If it was all SPNG insiders selling restricted shares into the market, it would have been a max of 3B shares. Stargazing shareholders bought those shares and held tight. So, while I agree that finding a broker to allow shorting penny stocks is not available to the common investor/trader, deep pockets have relationships with broker/dealers to allow it. I think we know that and will leave that at that.
The main contradiction really stems from the fact you said you would have shorted this pig all the way down. I believe an investigation/sting operation ongoing to get a slimeball from Europe and he may have been involved in SPNG as well as a few others. Haven't looked that closely at the case yet.
No honor among thieves. Most of these guys were flunkies and someone is going to plead to lesser charges in exchange for testimony, and that is when the doors will open.
You said:
"So personal findings are substantiated by the very nature of somebody disagreeing with your theory? I was under the impression that "findings" are in fact factual evidence hence the word FIND.
find·ing (fndng)
n.
1. Something that has been found.
2.
a. A conclusion reached after examination or investigation: the finding of a grand jury; a coroner's findings.
b. A statement or document containing an authoritative decision or conclusion: a presidential finding that authorized the covert operation."
ANSWER: All of the above, especially 2a. Where does the word "fact" show up in your definition of "finding?"
I was hoping to "find" agreement on SPNG mgmt assessment and disagreement on NSS possibility, but did not believe it would be as prevalent as it turned out to be. It fit the profile I expected it would.
Time to move on now. Thanks for your reply, but nothing more needed here.
Sir, or madam, my questions did not concern what the FBI, DOJ, SEC, or anyone else has found to be true.
I am simply doing research independent of anyone or anything else, and what was being sought here is completed.
That you continue the argument that there is no NSS here only substantiates my findings.
Good night and have a good evening. There is nothing more for me to be gained here. I was looking for answers to specific questions regarding NSS, and those answers have been provided.
Will respond to this and previous posts by terry mathews in this reply.
I am in complete agreement with both of you on the SPNG exec issue. They were both corrupt and a bit braindead in garnering national attention, then having such weak excuses for deliberately fraudulent non-existent customers and customer websites. A Keystone Cop sham and, as stated in earlier posts, would have been much easier to bilk money through P&Ds like most other fraudulent penny stocks.
Wackos for shareholders? Of course, some. They were duped out of their money, and continued to be misled by Moskowitz and, to a lesser extent, Metter.
This helps make the case even more that if these "wackos" had the A/S locked up, they certainly were not going to sell these precious shares, so the other 9B (not including ex-clearing) trades could only come from flipping or NSS. There is no other explanation. And trading patterns do not indicate intra-day flipping, and with PPS rising during scam, only logical conclusion is that it was NSS as flipping would have been a losing proposition.
In only a short time, it was plain to see objectives here and on other message boards. My only mission here was to see if any of my posts would actually be replied to, and I was shocked to see people were still arguing over a stock with a global lockdown, all of which ascribed to my theory that SPNG mgmt was crooked and, with the exception of one poster, also vehemently denied and dismissed my mere mention of the possibility of NSS.
All of these posts came from people who are stock-market savvy, which was also my intention. If I saw the ease with which NSS could and does exist in this basically unregulated market, surely they would too. That they vehemently denied it, and plucked only a word or two from my posts to dispute, told me all I needed to know about the intentions of message boards.
No more for me to conclude here, so thank you all for your time and responses.
Ownership vs trades clearly understood. So you would agree that if trading records proved shares only turned over twice, since many "legal" shares were locked into hands that were not trading, that the only possible outcome would be that, bare minimum (as this figure of 12B trades does not include ex-clearing), there are 6B uncovered shares.
In only two weeks of reading this and other boards, it is easy to determine that what you say, on one side of the coin, is completely true. You expose company corruption, but when looking at this and other penny stocks, and assessing trading patterns, this exposure only occurs after short sellers (with no intention to cover) have flooded the market with non-existent shares, thereby already diluting the value of a company, adding insult to injury of shareholders who own shares of a company whose officers have committed massive corruption and as a result have accumulated NSS due to knowledge that exposure will a) drive down PPS and b) possibly shut down company.
The handful of posts I have read from the period of fraudulent behavior on both sides of the coin only occurred AFTER the PPS has risen to the point of being beneficial to close down a company, making covering short sells a moot point.
What is ashamed is that these faceless and nameless people on the other side of the coin are not watched and analyzed as closely as company execs, who I disdain just as much, if not more, than those who take advantage of the fraud through the use of NSS.
"Little project" is completed. You, and others, have provided exact info needed in this portion of quest.
Only remaining issues will be determined in court hearing(s). Not sure of any schedulings, so will follow rest of case reviewing court transcripts and thank you all for your assistance.
Was that a straw man argument, because it certainly had nothing to do with my assumption?
Don't dispute your facts, but also do not understand what this has to do with assumption these shareholders being tight-fisted with shares in event of forced covering.
No one knows who these shareholders are, except the individuals holding the shares.
My assumption was based on reading court transcripts and, although not known how many of 3B A/S held by shareholders speaking in court for themselves, or for groups of shareholders, logic would tell us nobody takes time and expense to show up in court (for themselves or groups) unless many shares owned.
Only number I have seen is 35,000 shareholders (not sure of validity). If each shareholder owned 85K shares, that would equate to 3B shares. Assumption may not be far off in stating that 3B shares are tightly-held.
Rest of argument can only be based on logical assumptions. Proof lies in OBO and NOBO lists, as well as uncovered short sales, both of which are attainable.
Everything else is conjecture.
Thank you for another excellent post.
Yes, IPOs are being loosened a bit for casual investors, but still relegated highly to Investment Banks and other large institutional investors. The other form of primary market issuance is from treasury stock, which are shares that are authorized but not yet issued.
As you know, treasury stock, along with issued and outstanding (float), and restricted shares, comprise total of Authorized Shares. And is why I continue to state that if all 3B are "locked up," any current uncovered shares would need to be "techinically" bought from those shareholders of 3B shares.
Finally, you are correct that short sales are allowed in all markets to keep liquidity and fluidity of buys-to-sells. Not sure, in this day of online trading that this is even needed, but it is the current setup, allowing for MM manipulation, as they control the Bid and Ask versus the true buyers and sellers. But this is an argument for another day.
As the current situation exists, as you state, any short sells not covered in allotted time frame become "naked" and, by definition illegal. This is the crux of my posting, not only to obviously agree that SPNG mgmt, like many other OTC and PK execs, tried to run a scam and were caught. Given. Question remains, how many naked shorts exist and what will be done to reconcile?
Thank you for the following reply:
"I guess we'll find out.
Didn't Susan L get access to those lists months ago? Wonder what the hold up might be? How long should the process of adding the 2 lists together take?
If she is unable to confirm your belief, what will you conclude? A failure on her part or a misplaced belief on your own?"
No time to re-read all court transcripts, based on your question, assumption is Susan L is SPNG Rep?
My conclusion would be that my belief was misplaced, but there are two elements in place. Again, one sentence carved out of entire post, not the message of fraud on both parts, but one sentence. Fair enough.
OBO + NOBO lists would show sales owned, of course not shares sold short. You would agree that if OBO + NOBO = 3B, and still FTD's remaining out of other 9B shares traded during same time frame, only form of reconciliation would be for owners of FTD's to buy at what market will bear to cover the FTD's, unless ordered to cover at a basis point. Correct?
And, if we assume most of those 3B A/S owned by stuck shareholders, who have seen their profile on SPNG drop from 20c+ per share to .0001, might be a bit tight-fisted on letting go of those shares. Correct?
And if covering is so ordered, and for sake of argument we will not get caught up in number of uncovered shares, only theory. Whether 5B, 8B, or 45B shares uncovered, the price tag for those shares is unlimited, since stuck shareholders would want to do to NSS what has been done to them. Correct?
Using 10c as a basis point of covering (same as short sales), that would amount to $500,000,000 to $4.5 billion dollars. Correct?
This post responds to succeeding post as well, except to add (and reiterate) that I do not own shares nor FTD's and is why easier to comment objectively on entire picture.
Another cogent post, and nothing to dispute.
Let's be clear, shall we? In reviewing the entire case, well as much as could be garnered in two weeks or so, many things are apparent.
I am familiar with pump & dumps, and is why this case caught my eye. How could these brash, brazen two men and a few accomplices have thought this would work? They have both been involved in markets for most of their lives. What made them take such a chance at this stage of their careers/lives? Why does most of the rest of the fraudsters in this market merely run P&Ds and make some nice change here and there, while this one took it to a national level via advertising, compounding their problems by so unabashedly filing statements with the SEC that, with little investigation, revealed their customers and subsequent earnings as completely bogus, with websites set up in such ragtag fashion?
Was it as simple as one poster suggests, that we had a perfect storm with one player an egomaniac and the other pathological liar? Or were they so in debt and desperate that they felt like their only way out was to swing for the fences? Were they so foolish as to think they could bring national attention without also thinking about covering their tracks by at least putting more thought into setting up customers in a more covert manner?
The baffling thing remains that they were aware enough of market manipulation to know they could hire a promoter for $25K for a month's worth of pump without taking it to the level they did, and still make enough money to pay off personal debts, or whatever other reasons they felt compelled to run this scam. This begs the question, was it really as simple as one man being an egomaniac, eager to be in the spotlight, and the other able to lie without batting an eye; a match made in heaven?
Who knows the answers to these questions, as none of us were flies on the wall or inside their heads at the time of these decisions?
Chronologically, we arrive at the $100s of millions in ill-gotten gains, as you state. My belief is that it approaches or even exceeds a billion dollars.
Speaking without bias or reasons to hide (or avoid) any truths, the facts and trading patterns appear clear. During the run up from March through July, advertising and other promotions lured in penny stock players, also hoping for that one big swing. These were not traders. They were anti-'buy the rumor, sell the news' investors, not sophisticated enough to play in these shark-infested waters.
My belief is that OBO and NOBO lists will show that all 3B shares and several billion others are currently held by these "longs/dreamers." If this proves to be true, there are several billion shares short in this stock, if not dozens of billions.
Was it was SPNG execs who made illegal gains through the selling of what should have remained restricted shares were it not for fake opinion letters, who also shorted the market? Perhaps, at least in part. If they sold what should have been 1 to 2 billion restricted shares into the market, what about the other several or dozens of billions of shares short?
Again chronologically, this leads to the final conclusion, finally drawn out of one poster here who, after some prodding, stated that if these evil empires of short hedge funds exist (and we know they do as evidenced by the $400M fine to G-S in the role they played in shorting financial stocks in 2008), unsophisticated traders/investors should jump on the wagon, not fight them, to which I wholeheartedly agree. It's those dreams again, and a whole of greed.
Throwing in a touch of sentimentality here, maybe they thought this was the stock that was going to pay off Suzie's education expenses, or buy that beach house they've always dreamed of, or retire early. Should they have sold at 20c +- and been happy to be thousandaires instead of holding for that one penny stock that would finally make them millionaires? That was rhetorical.
If these people have the entire A/S locked up, and were not parting with a single share, where did the rest of the trading come from? Only two answers, and one is ludicrous to believe. Either flippers/daytraders, which has already been dismissed due to trading patterns and the sheer volume, and short sales.
FTD lists do not lie, only underestimate the volume of short sales. This stock was on FTD lists for months, and anyone who has traded, and understand what they are doing and the innerworkings of the market, also understand FTD lists do not come close to stating all of the short sales, via ex-clearing trades and other manipulation. So we won't play naive here.
Whether it's 8B or 45B shares makes no difference to the theory, only the actual $$ manipulated. Every poster who has discredited or dismissed the existence of NSS in penny stocks is sophisticated enough in their replies to know that NSS does exist, and is more prevalent in OTC and PK than anywhere else, due to massive amounts of company fraudsters who think no one is looking. Well, NSS is looking - HARD.
Whether the posts on these boards by those insisting NSS does not exist are real or fictional, or as has been done so often with many of my posts, carve out a sentence or two from a lenghty post and try to discredit a word here and a word there versus refuting the message in the post, leads me to understand the intentions.
There should be no posting on this board whatsoever, including mine, and is another of the reasons I chose this stock. This stock cannot be traded, so why is anyone here? Reviewing other stocks that have been revoked, the pattern of postings is identical. Until the fat lady sings and the stock is revoked, that sliver of doubt remains in the minds of those short, with no intention of covering.
In response to a previous post, apparently from a stuck shareholder, my posts have been responded to not to disprove that NSS exists, but to substantiate it.
A cogent post. You are speaking in terms of primary and secondary markets, and correct. All "trading" of stocks is done in the secondary market, as is short selling, which you seem to be alluding to. Finally, someone has spoken up about NSS making money in fraudulent companies.
If 'too good to be true' it probably is, especially is in such unregulated markets, making it even easier to both commit fraud by companies and short sell in this trading environment than on big boards, where US Govt banned short selling of financial stocks.
Thank you for your candid and relevant post.
Giving benefit of the doubt, checking trading records for highest volume days in July '09, vast majority of trading occurred at open and close, dispelling the "flipping" theory.
8B shares, as a lowball figure because does not include ex-clearing trades, would amount to $800,000,000 at 10c cost basis.
45B, which may include all ex-clearing trades and might be what Trustee was referring to in court, would be $4,500,000,000, that's $4.5 Billion dollars.
It becomes more clear with each post and time devoted to this washed up company, along with mathematical logic, that a good portion of that (minimum) $800M was shorted on the way up and at peak levels, and remains uncovered.
Two questions for those who share this "NSS is a myth" theory, which we know is not true, or our own US Govt would not have temporarily banned short sales on financial stocks after the meltdown of Lehman, WAMU, etc.
I am here doing research on my time, outside of my normal job, not to dispel the notion that SPNG execs were crooks, quite the contrary, but to engage honest conversation regarding the real possibility, if not probability of NSS. Why else be here on a stock that has a global lockdown? I can't get my head around that. Well, without again giving the benefit of the doubt. If I, along with many others, readily admit the fraud of SPNG execs, and with math on the side of a very real possibility, why does NSS try to be dismissed so vehemently? Just a couple of questions for my little project. Thanks in advance for any replies.
It appears in court transcripts this magic "formula" is a sticking point, along with the value of the result of this magical "formula."
Agree, but largest trading appears to be a basis of roughly 10c, meaning cost to buy initial 2M shares would amount to $200K, and that's for only flipping 2M shares.
Explain to the noobs how long this would take to reach the 8B - 45B shares above and beyond 3B A/S. Not an average trader/investor has that kind of money sitting around to flip on such a volatile penny stock, especially given the fact most of those high volume days the PPS rose.
Can't flip a stock and certainly can't short a stock rising daily, unless shorting outside allotted time frame, making it illegal naked short and landing on FTD list.
It seems the more people try to dismiss NSS mathematically, the more they corroborate. In this poster's example, we saw $200K to flip 2M shares, meaning 4M total. And flipping would have been a losing proposition since PPS continue rise during this time.
Put differently, Trustee mentioned possibility of 50B shares in court, prompting judge to ask what, if any, financial impact this may have. Trustee said basically nothing. Shareholders believed differently and judge asked shareholders to show financial impact of NSS.
Again, nothing mystical or magical in judge's ruling, just handling his court, and this case, the way he best sees fit.
In reading about shareholder's misfortune, it doesn't register with me calling them wackos rather than feeling compassion. Guess I'm just old like that.
Thx for info on Metter and Moskowitz. Being 337,000 posts behind, is not something a late-comer would otherwise know. Your assessment of them would make sense. Do you know them personally or basing judgment solely on corrupt activities?
Seems CYA by them did not start until after July '09 dump. Makes sense. Billions of shares traded still not adding up to only one side of coin being corrupt.
As far as saying believing in NSS is equivalent of believing in Santa Claus, let's think logically about this too with only two points.
1) if US gov't places temporary ban on shorting financial in Sept '08 after demise of WAMU, Lehman, Bear Stearns, Indymac, etc, obviously they did NOT do this for legal shorting, bit NSS, knowing no covering necessary after companies belly up. G-S found to be big player here.
2) With evidence of NSS thus established, in a much more tightly regulated big board market, conclusion here is that NSS is even MORE prevalent in less regulated penny stock market. Much less investment necessary to short at 25c than $25. And risk is virtually non-existent because, as you state, much corruption by companies in this market. It didn't take rocket scientist to see this was scam after 10K.
Conclusion, conspiracy theories aside, NSS is not only existent, but prevalent in this market.
Not intending to be repetitive, but let's take a look at the Mathematics and make a logical argument on existence (or not) of NSS.
May-Sept '09, in the neighborhood of 12B shares traded. Let's attribute 1B to the "longs" probably much more, but conservatively speaking.
That leaves SPNG crooks with maximum of 2B A/S to dump illegally into the market.
Of remaining 9B trades, IMO SPNG was through once illegal shares dumped into market. Based on postings here and elsewhere, at face value it does not appear longs were selling, only buying more. Now let's overestimate and say longs bought another 1B after illegal dump by SPNG crooks.
Who sold them those 1B shares, since (as mentioned above) entire A/S would already be in market and what about the other 8B? Flippers? Would not make sense because this went straight up and straight down, leaving little to no chance of flipping.
So we have a mysterious 8B shares that must be attributed to something. Only logical conclusion is NSS, especially when taking 4 months of FTDs into consideration.
Tell me where I'm going wrong, because this is a puzzle I am taking keen interest in solving...just my nature
Not sure of shareholder sentiment, but surely even they now know it was a scam all along. Seems ignorant of SPNG execs to take it to the national level they did through advertising. Much easier just to run a few P&Ds. Guess they wanted to hit a home run rather than carve out a few singles too, just like shareholders.
Perfect for NSS though. What a setup!! Having the goods on a company knowing full well all it took was a couple of blown whistles to make off with 100% tax-free dollars.
Absolutely agree with everything except last sentence. I think shareholders saw dollar signs in their eyes and were hoping for that big pennyland prize, which rarely happens. Only time I've ever seen is if a small pharma actually gets Phase III FDA approval, then are bought out by Big Pharma. Don't recall seeing many others in pennyland make it big.
I think shareholders were hoping against hope that company was not a part of the problem. So not better scammers, just naive with rose-colored glasses.
Not sure of dates or anything else, but might be first time I recall seeing a federal judge giving shareholders a chance to make NSS case before revoking stock. Paper trails are very long when NSS exists and would be monumental task for shareholders to find a way to expose, but not impossible.
Totally agree with not going against hedge funds who are shorting. That is the big money and should be followed.
You could be right. In reading the transcripts, it certainly looks like onus is on shareholders. It does appear judge is giving benefit of the doubt to those who feel they were scammed by both company and NSS. The last I saw on transcripts, he wants to know benefit to estate if NSS exists.
Could not agree more with a couple points.
Dump all scams resembling SPNG ASAP!! If even any value left.
Learn from mistakes, which applies not only to trading, but life in general.
Poster asked "how do we get our money?"
Answer was to read court transcripts of BK case if wanting more knowledge. Should he? Wouldn't matter if he knows case or not to expedite anything.
Possible disagreement is pittance. Could be right, could be wrong. Much evidence seen and read indicate this case has not followed SOP in revocation on stock.
Me thinks more than CURRENTLY meets the eye. Time will tell, time and judge's decisions.
Sorry to say, but not an easy task. SEC and FINRA has copies of all trading activity on this or any other security, but very tight-fisted with the records.
My advice would be to read through the court transcripts and draw your own conclusion. Again, this is only a little project I am working on, so don't know all the details, but somewhere in those transcripts I believe judge allowed a company representative and, in turn, gave permission to rep to obtain necessary doc's to put entire trading puzzle together.
Others I have done research on confirm what is being stated here. Only in case of Taser and a few others has NSS been exposed. Lawsuits are timely and costly against people hiding behind a curtain. Much easier for SEC to go after company, as principles are known. For either ease for SEC or an assortment of other reasons, SEC normally begins and ends at company level.
Not sure about conspiracy theories, but SEC seems to be looking in both directions now, and revocation is taking much longer than normal, as others have alluded to here.
Long answer to short question, but suggestion is to follow BK case. Most all answers can be found there. Will you ever see any of your investment? Chances are not in your favor, but judge is federal and not taking crap from anyone, including (if not especially) Trustee. He seems to want everything sorted out before making a ruling. Will that include NSS? The trading patterns indicate a high likelihood.
Let's be clear and no more games. There is no way in hell this traded over 11B shares without NSS. SPNG insiders made their money and the rest was NSS manipulation. End of story.
No, of course they are not public record, but available and attainable, yes.
It seems funny that the SEC would not make them public? Not to you or I, but to authorities who may have interest, like the DOJ and others.
My apologies again, but didn't make myself clear. We are in agreement that the SEC, DOJ, FBI, I don't think the DTCC as they are a private company used just in reconciliation, but the others, of course, are on the trail of the crooks, as well they should be.
But I wonder if the road took a fork somewhere along the way, and there should be bloodhounds searching both paths. What do you think? We could become famous if we actually exposed NSS in pennyland. Too easy to catch Metter, Moskowitz, and those schmucks, but a higher degree of difficulty finding the NSS. I still the Blue Sheets is a good start, but how do we get SEC to release them to us?
Yes, but trading records are available, right? Sometimes the paper trail seems endless, but I have done this with other stocks, and they can actually drill down to an individual trader or trading firm. Blue sheets seems the best avenue, but maybe you know of a straighter line.
With your help, maybe we can solve this puzzle.
Congratulations. Smart man. Take the money when available. Pigs get fed, hogs get slaughtered, right?
But you didn't answer. You seem like a bright guy. Let's you and I find these trading records and see how much SPNG insiders bilked the shareholders and maybe we would find NSS too.
Want to join me? It's just a project I am working on and help from someone who knows as much or more than me about the trading reconciliations on DTCC, Blue Sheets, NSCC, etc would be helpful in my quest.
So we are in agreement again. Why don't you and I figure out a way to see all trading activity during this time frame.
What do you suggest? Go to brokers, or straight to blue sheets? It would be interesting to see exactly which insiders traded how many illegal restricted shares and would also put to rest this crazy notion of mine that NSS also exists, especially in fraudulent companies.
Want to join me in this crusade?
Also agree that penny stocks are nothing to invest in. Better to take money off the table every time news hits, the old buy the rumor, sell the news is never more defined than with penny stocks.
As stated in many posts, we are in agreement on everything you and the rest here state, except to at least be open-minded enough to say there is a "possibility" that NSS exists in pennyland, probably more so than any other market because with thousands of stocks in OTC and PK, it is virtually undetected based strictly on volume of investigations required to expose NSS. It would be an overwhelming task.
Maybe you are right. I think the argument could be easily solved by getting all trading records and accounts from brokers regarding the trading of SPNG between May and Sept '09.
Maybe even the Blue Sheets would provide answers. My guess is FINRA, SEC, or even brokers could provide these details, on this or any other stock where a scam is known and NSS is prevalent...or not.
Let's pretend we are all novices here and think about this very easy-to-understand scenario.
I am a hedge fund or other institutional-type investor able to short penny stocks at a much less expensive fee than small-time investors/traders. I learn about a scam and see the scam coming to fruition as national advertising commences, knowing full well the 10K is bogus. What a perfect time to short as PPS rises. Then I make one call to a newspaper reporter known to have connections in the securities industry and whisper in her ear. Then I whisper in the SEC ear, who are obliged to act upon these whispers.
Crooks are exposed and due to DTCC lacking either the wherewithal or the balls to reconcile the trades, and the SEC allows a security to remain on FTD for months, let's face it, have short interest is nothing short of counterfeiting. Hell, if I was a hedge fund, or anyone with ability to short penny stocks at a small fee, and if I had no conscience, I would jump on that deal everytime.
Completely agree that flipping shares can turnover trading volume, but my point remains, on so-called Black Friday, when 550M shares were "traded" my opinion is this is the day SPNG crooks collaborated to sell their illegally unrestricted shares (the illegality being the fake opinion letters).
Being aware of typical penny stock "investors," they rarely have the expertise to flip, but instead hold their shares to become millionaires...lol.
And the folks here insisting NSS is a myth know better. If all the Eurozone countries are trying to bring legislation to prevevnt shorting on countries' debt, we know NSS exists. Swiss banks are currently in hot water over the trillions of dollars of fake sovereign debt, so NSS is not mythical, that is a given. Did it happen with SPNG? I only raise the possibility that it could, same as with any other stock.
For reference, check when G-S was fined $400M for shorting Lehman, Bear Stearns, and others, and why shorting of financials was temporarily halted in, I believe, July 2008.
I agree with you guys all about SPNG mgmt, but for you to have closed minds regarding NSS leads me to believe there is reason for this.
And if you reply to a post of mine, please copy entire sentence. It was a rebuttal to puppy about using using "authorized" in reference to having restriction lifted via opinion letters. We are all in agreement here, but the copy and paste took my verbiage completely out of context.
Restricted shares are ALWAYS a part of total authorized shares. For the restriction to be lifted converts them to unrestricted, thereby able to be traded in the open market.
Whether intentionally or not, puppy kept saying opinion letters authorized restricted to be traded. This discussion has no more merit, since the clarification has been made that "restricted shares are a part of the authorized share count - simple math formula - Float + Unissued + Restricted = Authorized share count."
Can't get much more simple than that and, if OBO + NOBO > Authorized Share Count, then there is uncovered short sells for a security. This is not a SPNG argument, this is a clarification of when NSS exists.
Thanks. Still catching up. No matter who the culprits, there was a large turnover between May and Sept '09, even if all 3B A/S in market.
It seems more than solely selling of restricted shares (illegally) in the open market. The more learned, more convincing corrupt activities on both SPNG mgmt and NSS sides of the fence.
Reading court transcriptsa is most compelling.
Could be, but I don't know what, if anything, shareholders are working on in that regard.