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How do you draw that conclusion from that sentence? Increased capital and stress requirements leave all American banks with less actual working capital for lending and/or acquisitions, thus limiting those banks (or their foreign owners) from using those funds elsewhere.
I have been sanguine regarding our status for over two years (check my few posts), largely because neither the numbers nor the reasoning I have seen ever add up. It's almost as though to many here English is a second language.
Lehman Settles Freddie Mac Claim for $767 Millionl
"The deal with the government-controlled mortgage-finance company will make hundreds of millions of dollars available for “prompt distribution” to creditors after being held in reserve as a result of the dispute, Lehman said yesterday in a filing in U.S. Bankruptcy Court in New York."
Thank you Cotton. Your efforts are appreciated.
And why wouldn't Barclay's be paying divvies if it were their responsibility? They would be accumulating compounded interest AND any and all penalties for being in default. I doubt any financial institution would take such a risk.
The whole thing is puzzling. Assuming CTs are worth something, why would BNYM transfer them to DB? Assuming they are worthless, why would DB want them.
Strange, not?
The claim refers to CUSIP 52519Y209, which is the Ks. (I think, might be Ls, but it is one or the other.)
Excellent question, excellent point.
"Remember, CTs are not in the POR."
No they aren't. BUT...the debt they represent IS.
RE: JPM & Not part of BK.
JPM as trustee has the responsibility to collect the interest on the subordinated debt securities in which our CTs represent an interest. That is why a representative of JPM filed a claim on our behalf with the BK court. JPM, by itself, owes us nothing it does not receive from LBHI (or a successor). It is effectively a pass-through agent.
Our CTs are not part of the BK, but the aforementioned securities are. If those securities are reaffirmed, either in whole or in part, we will receive payment of one kind or another. If they are not reaffirmed, we get nada. Rather straightforward and not difficult to grasp.
I have a vested interest in Joe Stocks being wrong, and I certainly hope he is.
That said, all of his posts have been straight forward and unemotional, often containing links or quotes. In short, right or wrong he has comported himself as a gentleman, and I find the attitude and comments of some here regarding him and his posts unhelpful and lacking in manners.
And no, I don't really care what anyone thinks of my comment.
Well someone sold today @ 11 cents. And there are no takers on 30 cent offers. If so many people are so certain, why aren't they scoffing up all they can at 30 cents?
Just saying.
Wayne - A stock is illiquid when it is shares in Enron, or Calpine, or LBHI -- bankrupt and/or out of business companies. Not everything Joe says is wrong prima facie.
The Disclosure Statement also states that the expected recovery for Clas 10B is 0%.
What is your source for this? It is not found in the POR, the Disclosure Statement, not the Confirmation Order.
(I'd be thrilled if you are right, but I cannot find a legal reason to assume you are.
Wayne -
1) Why would I play games? I have been here for a couple of years, and own 60k CTs. I want very much to see us enjoy a recovery.
2) After this last payment, the POR lists semi-annual payments (March and September) through 2016 if necessary. LBHI and (presumably) Lamco will be around for a while yet and if additional assets are available they will be distributed on a pro-rata basis per the Disclosure, POR, and Confirmation Order.
If there ends up being a surviving corporation, the use of any available NOLs is tied into the CTs as Tier One capital.
They didn't lie to the court, it's in their disclosure to the court.
Everyone is always talking about DD, but few are doing it.
I am willing to wager that in March there will be another distribution and the estimates referred to (except for the 100% of course) will be exceeded. That is the way the documents read, and lawyers are very careful about how they draw up legal documents. As LD has pointed out, our future lies outside the BK, not in any distribution within it.
At any rate, each can read and believe as he or she will and only time will tell.
I apologize, I misspoke. The relevant info is in the Disclosure Statement, not the Confirmation Order:
K. Summary of Recovery Analysis Under the Plan
The Recovery Analysis setting forth the estimated Claim and estimated recoveries for each Class is annexed hereto as Exhibit 4. The Debtors indicated on Exhibit “A” to LBHI’s Voluntary Petition for chapter 11 that as of May 31, 2008, LBHI and its Affiliates had approximately $639 billion of assets and approximately $613 billion of liabilities. As indicated on the Exhibit 4 annexed hereto, the
estimated aggregate gross recovery (before the payment of any Claims or expenses) following an
orderly liquidation of the Debtors’ assets is approximately $63 billion. The substantial decrease
in the aggregate value of the assets is a result of (i) the exclusion of assets of the Non-Controlled
Affiliates, (ii) the termination of secured financings, such as repurchase agreements, pursuant to
which Lehman retained the subject securities on its balance sheet and also included the sale proceeds and the obligation to repurchase the securities, (iii) market value changes and (iv) alternate valuation methodologies.
Read the explanation of the 623 billion in the Confirmation. LBHI explains it down to 63 billion max (at the time). The rest are basically worthless repurchase agreements used to bulk up the balance sheet.
In both the POR and the Confirmation, 10Bs' "prorated share"is 0%. Allowed claims have to be paid in full before we see anything. (Within the POR. If there is a surviving entity we will do OK.)
Well, you and I apparently have differing understandings of the English Language. The disclosure document CLEARLY states "estimated"; not "guaranteed", nor "limited to". And - If we are to accept your interpretation of this section, please note the huge goose-egg next to our interests.
P. 132:
On what do you base that? It's not in the POR, nor in Judge Peck's Confirmation Order.
The 21.1% was the Debtors original estimate of what they would be able to pay out, not what the creditors agreed to. All Class Three claims are allowed. It looks as though there will be at least a 5th distribution, and that Class Three will receive more than 21.1%.
"total allowed amount"
Says to me it's going to take a hell of a big waterfall to get us wet.
A paragraph that gives pause...
The Fourth Distribution Notice states that the amount distributed will constitute 5.741091% of the total allowed amount of the Senior Noteholder Claim, which results in an aggregate cash amount of
$2,806,471,446.56 (the “Fourth Plan Distribution”). After giving effect to the fourth distribution, the cumulative distributions to the Trustee on behalf of the Senior Noteholders will constitute 20.552763% of the total allowed amount of the Senior Noteholder Claim.
He's really LD's alter-ego.
No it's not - at least the Barclay's part. Pure fantasy. Read the docs.
Joe Stocks is correct re: no percentages nor limiting $ amount exists anywhere in either the POR or the Confirmation Order. That makes LD's "waterfall" our best and perhaps only chance. From the POR:
4.14 LBHI Class 10B – Subordinated Class 10B Claims against LBHI.
(a) Impairment and Voting. LBHI Class 10B is impaired by the Plan. Each holder of an Allowed Claim in LBHI Class 10B is not entitled to vote to accept or reject the Plan and is conclusively deemed to have rejected the Plan.
(b) Distributions. Holders of Allowed Claims in LBHI Class 10B shall not receive any Distributions on account of such Claims unless and until all holders of Allowed Claims in LBHI Class 3, LBHI Class 4A, LBHI Class 4B and LBHI Class 5 are satisfied in full, in which case each holder of an Allowed Claim in LBHI Class 10B shall receive its Pro Rata Share of (i) Available Cash from LBHI and (ii) Subordinated Class 10C Distribution.
Which, it seems to me, makes our odds at best 50 - 50. There is however one interesting paragraph in the Confirmation Order which seems strangely out of place, but which gives me hope never-the-less:
66. Issuance of New Securities. The Plan Administrator, each Debtor or Debtor Controlled-Entity is authorized to (a) form and transfer certain assets of the Debtors and/or Debtor Controlled Entities to new (or utilize existing) entities, including, without limitation, one or more separately managed partnerships, REITs or other investment vehicles, to hold certain real estate or other assets of the Debtors and/or Debtor-Controlled Entities and, (b) issue New Securities for Distribution under the Plan. In the event that the Plan Administrator issues New Securities, each holder of Allowed Claims or Equity Interests against a Debtor that contributed assets to the entity issuing New Securities shall receive the relevant New Securities as Distributions in accordance with the Plan. (P. 53 of Confirmation Order)
Courts are one of the things that remain open. At least until 17 Oct. when borrowing authority runs out.
The drop to .15 in the Ks was for 1,000 shares. Just under 12k for the day so far.
The CTs themselves are not in the POR, but the subordinated notes which are the only source of funds for paying off the CTs are. The CTs may be the guns, but the notes are the bullets.
Divis come to a bit over 7 bucks, depending on which CT you have.
“Lehman technically exited bankruptcy in March 2012, although the case will linger for three to five more years as the reorganization is executed and related multibillion-dollar lawsuits are dealt with, Miller said.”
Latest on Lehman BK
But LEH still has several hundred billions of dollars in "disputed claims", which is the 800 pound gorilla in the room.
I'll buy all the CTs you have for .10.
We will get out own notice if and when the time comes. This notice is for those already in line for a payment under the POR.