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Well, if its truly a POS why bother investing in this company at all?
The reviews I read must have been bogus or poorly set up without the correct configuration...Anandtech and legit reviews seem to show huge improvement....maybe they are setting up with max anti-aliasing and therby coming up with bad reviews in comparison...
Mas, have you seen the reviews on the 3850's in crossfire mode...there is virtually no improvement in frame rates with most games...there must be something wrong with the current drivers that will be fixed in the future...No?
I think you are aware of the law of diminishing returns...the ability to put up to 4 video cards in a computer might take care of the consumer up to 3840x2400 resolution...you probably won't need anti-aliasing at those resolutions either...so...there will be a flexible solution for those that want to pay for it...the rest of the market will be stoked to have 1920x1200 resolution at a reasonable price without burning down the house...I guess the limiting factor will be the kind of video screens that can take the resolution and not cost $1600-4000...
No need to be frightened; just a changing market place...by the time they get a quality 45nm process I can see quad core at 3.0 ghz with a large dual gpu and a 64 GB flash drive all driven under 200 watts by 2011...costs go up someplaces and costs go down in other places...I'm sure there will always be cutting edge products that need 800 watts to run but I look forward to better power efficiency and even better performance without burning your house down...:>)
I think the battle has shifted to who can build the best at the cheapest cost...I have a chart showing the market trend of cpu's and it shows desktop=laptop numbers by 2010-2011 time frame...and of those desktop I wonder how many will be micro pc's in small chasis...
I was thinking more in terms of the low clock speeds but I think that could work too...:>)
The tri-cores should not be an issue given that AMD could sell them in 2 socket or quad socket to give you 6 or 12 processor set-ups for psychological symmetry...:>)))
Mas,
I think they are comparing it to a car with 3 normal tires and one flat tire...you can roll on the rim till you get to your destination but it aint pretty...;>)
That's what I was trying to point out...I think phenom quad core single socket will take care of 99.5% of consumer market needs...Unless you do a hell of a lot of rendering or compression/decompression I can't see the need for the average consumer at this time. It might be cheaper to ramp up the clocks than to get two quad cores to cooperate at 3 ghz +... the software needs to catch up over the next two years...my WAG...
Mas, do you think the cost benefit ratio at this time did not make sense given the fact that the OS cannot really take advantage of 8 cores (basic windows OS)...or maybe AMD will have 8 cores in one socket 6 months from now and that this has become irrelevant? I would think that a 3 Ghz phenom with two nice video cards would take care of my needs for a good while...
Either Hector is crazy or he has his balls in some kind of vise and Intel is twisting...and if Intel is so confident of its products and service then they wouldn't mind letting the x86 license thing go and have a competent AMD management brought in by an outside buyer...it just seems all to convenient that AMD is having all these problems unilaterally...hell I could cover my expenses with what AMD is producing at 90nm let alone 65nm (differnet products as well as cpu's)...you wouldn't want me as an intelligent competitor; I would be laughing all the way to the bank....
It's really rather academic though because I don't expect AMD to survive to see the outcome.
So...why would AMD have to survive any outcome if it wasn't Intel's decision to price everything where AMD would fail to operate as a business...doesn't seem to make any sense unless AMD management was compromised (a willing or unwilling participant)...great...I should buy intel stock and forget about this nonsense...;>)
Now granted everything is heresay at this point but I wouldn't put it beyond any corporate entity to obfuscate the situation to confuse the general public at large...
More...
European Commission: Intel violated antitrust laws
by Cyril Kowaliski - 10:38 am, July 27, 2007
The European Commission has issued a statement of objections to Intel regarding its alleged anti-competitive practices in the European Union. As the Commission states, the statement "outlines the Commission’s preliminary view that Intel has infringed the EC Treaty rules on abuse of a dominant position (Article 82) with the aim of excluding its main rival, AMD, from the x86 Computer Processing Units (CPU) market."
In the [statement of objections], the Commission outlines its preliminary conclusion that Intel has engaged in three types of abuse of a dominant market position. First, Intel has provided substantial rebates to various Original Equipment Manufacturers (OEMs) conditional on them obtaining all or the great majority of their CPU requirements from Intel. Secondly, in a number of instances, Intel made payments in order to induce an OEM to either delay or cancel the launch of a product line incorporating an AMD-based CPU. Thirdly, in the context of bids against AMD-based products for strategic customers in the server segment of the market, Intel has offered CPUs on average below cost.
These three types of conduct are aimed at excluding AMD, Intel's main rival, from the market. Each of them is provisionally considered to constitute an abuse of a dominant position in its own right. However, the Commission also considers at this stage of its analysis that the three types of conduct reinforce each other and are part of a single overall anti-competitive strategy.
In response to the Commision's statement of objections, Intel Senior VP and General Counsel Bruce Sewell has issued a statement of his own to say Intel is "confident" that the microprocessor market is "functioning normally." According to Sewell, Intel has behaved in a lawful and pro-competitive fashion, and the Commission's case is based on complaints from AMD alone and not customers. He adds that the statement of objections is preliminary and "does not itself amount to a finding that there has been a violation of European Union law."
Nonetheless, the Wall Street Journal believes the Commission's move "could embroil Intel in a legal process that is likely to rival the European Union's decade-long battle with Microsoft Corp. in complexity." Microsoft has had to pay hundreds of millions of euros in fines so far, and its case with the EU is far from over, so the potential battle Intel faces could be very costly.
http://techreport.com/onearticle.x/12948
who knows anyways cause the market will crash because I keep getting all these reports about imminent terrorist attacks in emails from right wing blogs...
The air tight case may involve the fact that all of Intel's behavior could be directed towards limiting access for AMD to introduce product into the market...if you pay individuals high sums of money to exclude them doing business with a competitor and key parts in product introduction are delayed or omitted it could be tortuous interference and not just hardball business tactics...
also maybe some of the OEMS are tired of playing Intel's game...
Buying ATI is not mismanagement...paying too much for ATI is mismanagement...If AMD can come up with quality video cards after the second quarter the future might not be as bleak as everyone is spouting...
Since 50% of the market will be some kind of portable computer going forward who the hell cares about quad cores...AMD's business model sucks if all you want to do is sell the fastest horse at half the price just to cover expenses. Its part of the equation but its not everything. I actually see AMD investing more in Video processor shrinkage (45nm) than trying to provide commodity cpu's. I see combo deals having more meaning going forward. Why build baseball bats and deliver them to your customer when the customer borrows a bigger bat from your competitor to smack you squarely over the head.
Mas, Did you see this reply...
So what is your point, exactly?
Comment by Eric Savitz - April 5, 2007 at 4:11 pm
The stock will drop below $10. The issues at hand for AMD are not the deliverables and/or overstock of chips. It is that AMD’s executives lack professionalism and leadership capabilities. Their remains a great professional immaturity with the mid-level dirextors, managers and certain VPs. They are unable to execute and drive any semblance of a concerted business plan. There actually does not exist a business plan at AMD!!!
This failure comes from Hector Ruiz, Dirk Meyer and Henri Richard. Because of this, there is no direction for everyone to follow.
Oter issues engulfing AMD’s demise is the political roundhousing taking place inside AMD. Everyine is so afraid of losing their job that they are all looking for scapegoats! The cuts are coming, but they need to start at the top!
AMD’s lack of planning and execution can be seen in its inability to work with Cisco. You would think that AMD would have been working with Cisco for years. Not so. No one at AMD has been able to successfully penetrate Cisco and create a working dialog!! I know an individual who did succeed at connecting AMD with Cisco, but that individual is gone now due to the lack of professional, successful direction, due to its leaders, at AMD. AMD will continue to lose qualified people because of its inability to create a concerted corporate effort and execute on a plan.
AMD will not be able to figure it out for some time to come. That is why the highly qualified people have left AMD and will continue to. I will be leaving in one week.
Good luck AMD!
Comment by AMDer - April 6, 2007 at 3:10 am
Is this just marketing? How do these actually perform with a variety of applications...
Short term I think your correct...I was thinking 12 months from now when AMD bottoms out or gets done with any kind of dilution...
Elmer, have you forgotten AMD is now in other business segments as well...I mean if they come out with very good graphics cards I can't see how being 10% slower on the cpu top end is going to put them out of busines...
It won't be $300 for a long long time...it has blu-ray drive...Maybe a couple of years from now $450...the processing power overhead should last a long time 5+ years...
AMD needs a new business model...not building more and more fabs...selling your product at an asp 50% less than Intel with 1/3 the fab space is long term suicide...I could make $400 million a quarter with a new business model...after 45nm cpu's for the consumer market is going to be somewhat a commodity so why not make the most of it...I put AMD selling 10 million processors a quarter no matter what Intel does so why not go for maximizing profits instead of begging at OEMs back door and selling at breakeven...totally stupid!
Who's fault is that...
Captain Hector Ahab shooting for Moby Intel at all costs...maybe investors will excommunicate both companies ego maniacs soon....
CJ, is that because AMD is not going to convert the fab or they go straight to 45nm after conversion?
who's buying that $74 shit?
More like "Squeeze balls" marketing...LMAO :>))))
A technological shotgun wedding...:>))))
Its amazing that you say free market...
(1) why is AMD's asp so low compared to Intel's (Intel's products are not substantially better maybe different...
(2)Why did ATI's sales diminish if the market can freely choose chipset or video processors...
(3)Why do hedge funds continually seek to keep AMD stock price low in comparison to Intel's share price...Hey let the price float freely...;>)
(4) I guess fear doesn't have anything to do with it?
Mas, do you know the speed difference between sram L2 cache and the zram L3 cache?
Thanks...
What would cause that low of a price level? I would think that would be almost valuing AMD/ATI at residual value...AMD tech that far behind Intel?
Unless you think the ATI property is going to be a negative factor and there is no refresh in AMD/ATI product line the price for AMD could go down...if there is a nice refresh in product lines the value relative to Intel/NVIDIA should go up...Intel + Nvidia = 118 + 11 = $129 billion, AMD/ATI = $9 billion. AMD/ATI must really really suck...just kidding...;>)
I guess anything is possible but seems improbable given where we are at in price value. The overall economy could head south and that could reduce value in addition to competing for market share. I would think that long-term projections of competing at these margins is a little crazy. The question is who will blink first. :>)
I don't trust hector at all, his interests and shareholders interests are not the same. at the same time I've never really liked AMD's business model because I think they could be very profitable despite Intel's competition.
Yes unless AMD management has some other bombshell to deliver...the way they deliver info is designed to knock the stock down and shake out investers...so who knows where the true bottom is right now but if your not worried about going to $12 and then back up again why worry unless they have been lying about financials and then all bets are off...;>)
We haven't seen everything ATI will bring to the table yet and the acquisition added $40 million debt per quarter...AMD has so far only shown the worst and not the best...all this talk about Intel putting AMD out of business is just blubber IMHO...real money buys now when the stock is beat to hell...;>)))
Sgolds, have you factured in the addition of ATI in your $10 valuation because that would give AMD a market cap of $5.5 billion. Does this make sense even if AMD is at breakeven?
I don't know...thats why I'm asking keith for an explanation..."Where's Waldo?" :>)))
AHH Err, Intel is still making this P4 technology and 32 bit core stuff...isn't Intel only going to have 35% core 2 this quarter...I think Intel would have been on a much slower ramp...