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if we had a shareholders committee that would be more possible. to date, we don't.
I will share anything I know with you...having said that, the rub in your question is akin to Clinton's famous definition of "is" :)
The shareholders always think the assets are greater than liabilities based on publicly available reports. Unfortunately, the downward spiral once a company gets close to BK changes last quarters reports tremendously. So, when you ask the question, the real Q is regarding assets/liabilities as the court finds them. Then the answer is no. I was following, but not in court, Pilgrims Pride. A huge winner. Management stated they wanted to preserve shareholders and they were true to their word. In Ambac, shareholders were sure they assets were there, but the court disagreed...shareholders are still holding on, but to very reduced share value. In Wamu, we're going back for a second round this month, to try and gain more value via lawsuits.
Don't know if this helps or not, but I've seen both sides.
I hear you. But don't jump to conclusions just yet. Head games are part of BK trading and this story hasn't been fully written yet.
Hey, Stok...thanks!
dvb...come to DE next week and sit with me in court...
Ilene
I only wish I was in the loop.
You can all foreshadow as well as I, based on previous BK cases. The outcome is not known, but the odds are usually against S/H in BK. However, in the instances where S/H win, they almost always win big.
Nothing has changed. Except that we are a day closer to having it spelled out in court.
Ilene
No, you didn't miss anything factual.
bunnyb, I hear you on the manipulation and the shenanigans. It is, unfortunately, the way the current law allows the game to be played...and in this economy, a company using BK to reorg itself out of debts seems to be a common solution. it is absolutely criminal, morally, that shareholders get screwed in most cases. someone a couple days back asked what a posting I made regarding filing objections had to do with common shareholders...the system will stay
intact until there is a groundswell of educated and vocal shareholders. of this, I am convinced.
re Starbucks...but of course! I regularly pump caffeine via an IV tube :)
Ilene
@Hybrid, thanks!
Ilene
Hi guys. Sounds like there is unrest here today, and that's to be expected in these cases. Unfortunately, there are people who use this unease to their trading advantage and are happy to fan the flames by manipulating the price when they can.
I've gotten lots of questions and thought I'd pop on here for a minute, if its ok, to try and answer some of them. Regardless of what's happening with the price, at this point it is not indicative of any deal made or not. The volume is way too low for the price to be trustworthy today. Having said that, it is still possible that the end result is that commons get nothing. Of course, that's always a possibility in a BK case, under current laws.
The judge will not receive any communication from shareholders outside of filing an objection.
Class action lawsuits might return something to you, but they have already been filed, and under BK law, are stayed, pending the conclusion of the BK case.
I don't know if any of this helps or not, but thought I'd weigh in.
Ilene
Hi guys. There is a hearing tomorrow @1:30 and I'll be there tweeting from court. If you're interested, you can follow along
#DelShareholder.
Ilene
This is mostly correct. Any foreign entity needed to submit paperwork to CFIUS already to be a certified bidder. That and come up with the required financials and cash. CFIUS approval can take 30 days or more, and this was an issue right from the start...but Wanxiang (and anyone else) can indeed participate in the process.
The bid procedures give all bidders the opportunity to get any necessary regulatory approval within a reasonable time frame following the auction.
I would assume that these issues may play a big role in the sale hearing on Dec. 11.
Ilene
This is mostly correct. Any foreign entity needed to submit paperwork to CFIUS already to be a certified bidder. That and come up with the required financials and cash. CFIUS approval can take 30 days or more, and this was an issue right from the start...but Wanxiang (and anyone else) can indeed participate in the process.
The bid procedures give all bidders the opportunity to get any necessary regulatory approval within a reasonable time frame following the auction.
I would assume that these issues may play a big role in the sale hearing on Dec. 11.
Ilene
You bet!! Will be heading over to the courthouse soon. I should start seeing some reporters and attorneys here shortly!
Ilene
no pm, but I hear you...thanks :)
I hope so! Have a great evening :)
let's see what next week brings...
Well, that's a mouthful! I agree that the process you describe happens too often. I'm not certain I am in the camp that believes its a master plan, although I've read some very interesting and very convincing material...
I do believe that our financial markets allow for and even encourage rouge behavior that works against small companies and start ups, in particular, although in general, the behavior works against a fair market.
But this is probably enough off topic from me for tonight :)
Ilene
I think its a real political conundrum right now, for the government. First of all, there is a history of issues with China, and I don't know that the US really wants or needs to stir that pot. I don't know how many state secrets are contained in A123's IP, but if a company is allowed to have Chinese trading partners, it seems a bit disingenuous to me to now say they can't buy the company. Wanxiang already has the milk...why not buy the cow? But, it may be a political hot potato, which is why (IMHO) there are news stories about the government's meddling in this. Posturing. But, just my opinion.
Other than the ones I had reported previously, I don't know of any other bidders. There are interesting names popping up in the cure notice filings, and some might be bidders, but I don't have any knowledge.
Ilene
thx WB!
think in terms of objections...those make it on the docket for all to see.
FWIW
Ilene
oh, the full story is astonishing. I had a federal judge threaten to sic the DOJ on me for "helping" shareholders re-word an objection. the truth is that I was the courier...so my name was attached, but when judges, attorneys and the US Trustee comment on the lack of shareholder involvement and then attack someone for being a resource...the reason I have to be very careful is that there is a statue regarding "the unauthorized practice of law" that they take pretty seriously...so please don't be offended if I won't answer something...
Ilene
you flatter me...thanks :)
as long as I can, I will be in the courtroom!
bunny,
no...not necessarily. it was just a comment on your point about the government taking property.
Thanks Kapla!
You have a great weekend too...and yes, December should be interesting here.
Ilene
bunny,
I agree! I like your solution...however, talk to any of the investors in BK banks about the government taking their money...unfortunately, the government has no compunction against doing so :(
Ilene
You're kind to apologize. I do what I can, and sometimes I am politically correct but never to the point of withholding any factual information. I speculate, based on experience and trying to connect the dots. I never guess at price action, other than once a POR is confirmed and commons are toast...
These boards are monitored from many angles, including the companies and their attorneys. I have already been intimidated by them, and harassed by numerous anonymous goofballs with nothing better to do than attack strangers :(
Please feel free to follow along on Twitter...its free to all right now, so join in!
Ilene
You're kind to apologize. I do what I can, and sometimes I am politically correct but never to the point of withholding any factual information. I speculate, based on experience and trying to connect the dots. I never guess at price action, other than once a POR is confirmed and commons are toast...
These boards are monitored from many angles, including the companies and their attorneys. I have already been intimidated by them, and harassed by numerous anonymous goofballs with nothing better to do than attack strangers :(
Please feel free to follow along on Twitter...its free to all right now, so join in!
Ilene
You're kind to apologize. I do what I can, and sometimes I am politically correct but never to the point of withholding any factual information. I speculate, based on experience and trying to connect the dots. I never guess at price action, other than once a POR is confirmed and commons are toast...
These boards are monitored from many angles, including the companies and their attorneys. I have already been intimidated by them, and harassed by numerous anonymous goofballs with nothing better to do than attack strangers :(
Please feel free to follow along on Twitter...its free to all right now, so join in!
Ilene
Maybe leaks. With auctions, its difficult to tell how they'll go. The CFIUS angle here makes it potentially more interesting...perhaps Wanxiang will have to sweeten the pot quite a bit. Whatever I hear, I'll post!
As a non bidder, I am not allowed to participate in the actual auction process in NYC. However, I will be in court on the 11th!
Until then, unless we see filings or something in the news from a bidding company, its really conjecture.
BTW, if you look at EKDKQ just before its auction started...
You're welcome...and thank you!
Just a note...I keep an eye out here, and my ears were burning before :)
Ilene
Attached is Schedule 1 (actually 1 - 5), which enumerates the Bid Procedures. This was filed as an attachment to the Order, signed 11/8/12, approving them. Go to page 7, which begins the Auction process and procedures.
Do not expect to know until the Sale Hearing, 12/11/12, who the bidders were.
IMHO
Ilene
http://www.loganandco.com/dockets/ASI/ASI_DKT_000314_084641_00128340_84d05952484cb71a237dca26a9954a5.pdf
Woven, no PM.
Two words: hopeful and impatient :)
Ilene
Agreed.
AONE has a court hearing this afternoon starting at 2:30ET. I'll be in court tweeting, if you want to get the details as they unfold (#DelShareholder) Later this evening, I'll have a summary of the court hearing posted on Facebook (Delaware Shareholder Services).
There is another court hearing on Thursday, as well (10AM).
Ilene
no financial statements, per se, but as you know, they will start to file the MOR (monthly operating report) which will have some financial data
thx. given the price action, I figured as much...
no pm. will look into...find me on FB and I'll post there.
Ilene