wick, they lost their lease a while ago - St. Petersburg airport needed space to accomodate Emirates in their old terminal, so, somehow Baltia's premises went to Emirates (don't know the legal part of it, just asked an airport guy and he said that Baltia office was taken by Arabs a couple of years back). Either way, that office is now useless as the terminal where it was located is closed and all airlines moved to a newly built one. So, to start working, Baltia has to come up with a completely new lease.

By the way, St. Petersburg airport is infamous for having enormous prices. So, no need to pay it unless you really going to fly.

How soon? Two more weeks, as usual?

That 'rail+stop' idea isn't even funny. I know a bunch of people flying from St.Petersburg to the U.S. regularly, and noone even considered such an idea. Let me show you why. Plane ticket prices are virtually the same regardless of departure city, Moscow or St. Petersburg, and the stopover doesn't include any additional cost to a passenger. Train tickets price is around 90 USD one-way. Plus getting from railway station to another that serves the airport express, plus the airport train itself - that makes it over 200 extra dollars at best. Why pay more getting into inconvenience of switching between stations, luggage handling etc when it's possible to check the luggage in LED, take a plane to Moscow (or, way better, Frankfurt) and switch to a trans-atlantic flight there?

No, 'Sapsan+Aeroflot' is a non-sence. I can't even guess who told you this stuff. Either way, forget about it as there's zero additional passengers for Baltia from that idea.

Slightly less than 40.000.

Bunch of problems here.
First, their goal would not be to gain a 70% load from the beginning. It would be to get 70% after a while. Since now several European carriers have very competitive offers from a price point of view, and people are used to fly well-known respected airlines (like Lufthansa), even having a stopover on the way. So, to attract passengers, Baltia has to set fares considerably lower than those from Lufthansa, Air France, SAS etc.

Second, Baltia is doomed to have a very low-quality service. No matter how good their flight attendants may be (that's something they can do themselves), they WILL use a 35-year old plane. Old seats, aging plane interior, no IFE. That cannot be called a quality service by any means in 21st century.

Third, you're a bit overoptimistic concerning Moscow route. Two airlines can be authorised to fly it from both sides. One airline is Delta, the second right some years ago was given to Continental. As Cont is now merged with United, it's unclear if the route is considered dormant by DOT or United inherited it from Continental. Other companies flying the path (Delta & Russian Aeroflot and Transaero) have extensive feeding networks that carry passengers from inside both countries to those trans-Atlantic flights. Baltia won't have such a service, relying on point-to-point passengers only, and that's a huge disadvantage compared to bigger airlines.

Riga, Minsk, Tallinn - forget it. It's a bad sign Baltia talks those towns. They all are small economically depressed places with no essential traffic to the U.S. There's no way a 747 may become profitable flying there.

If cargo is that essential and profit-generating, Baltia may launch a cargo route. But, flying a passenger plane, it has to aim for passengers. As far as I heard, now 'make or break' threshold for a pax route is 65-70% of capacity sold. If a company sells 70% of its seats volume, the route becomes profitable. If not - it just generates losses.

As LED-NYC traffic is considered to be highly seasonal, that's not 120 pax every day through the year. The pax flow has to be 200+ in the summer and 50+ in the winter, I guess. That makes summer route possible (say, 3x weekly) and winter unrealistic.

Traffic from St.Petersburg to North America in 2012.

As the Russian airport put up statistics recently, it's around 110.000 passengers to all U.S. cities combined, and around 40.000 to N.Y. area alone. That makes it 110-120 passengers per day for the route in average. So, it looks like there actually IS enough traffic to launch a seasonal summer route (several flights per week), but maybe not continuing it through the winter.

Do not count that much on connecting pax flying from Russia to other U.S. cities as nearly all of them are well served by Lufthansa (the major connection flights player for LED market), and it's way better to switch planes in Europe than in U.S. due to border/custom control procedures.

So, it's not even close to 12% figure you've posted. Baltia has to get nearly all existing traffic to fly 3-4 flights a week on 747.

I did. Last time I flew from the airport, I went to see if there is 'Baltia' office and haven't found one. Later, a Pulkovo official told on some Internet board that Baltia lost its office (was kicked away? don't know) when the airport was in search for facilities to provide Emirates with.

Technically speaking, having an office there or not having it is irrelevant - and old terminal is closing in 4 months (Nov 29th is the date, I believe), with all the airlines moving to a new building. So, you've got to ask directly if the company leases some space there.

Just a correction - Baltia has no office in Russia. A while ago, they rented it, but gave up three or four years ago.

At least, (as usual) no public info from Baltia on that. Being on Phase 2 means to go through acceptance process and several other small tasks (like trainings). May it happen that Baltia already has the docs approved and starts the trainings? Yes. Is there any information on that other than 'updated summary of final steps'? No.

> I tend to think they have, now on to hiring / testing.
Not so quickly. To hire/test, they need to come to Phase 3 (according to the picture). We have no idea when (and if) that happens. If the manuals are indeed approved, then the gate may come in a couple of months, if not... well, everyone has seen how things go in this case. :)

Looks like Phase 2 is just the beginning...

Here's a link to FAA page describing the process: http://www.faa.gov/about/initiatives/atos/air_carrier/overview_process/
and picture with gate requirements: http://fsims.faa.gov/wdocs/8900.1/v10%20air%20trans%20over%20sys/chapter%2001/10_001_003.htm

So, to pass through gate 1 all Baltia needed was just to submit the manuals that became a showstopper with NY FAA office. What Baltia is entering now is exactly what it failed to pass through in NY - a manuals acceptance routine. Actually, that's exactly what Phase 2 is. Only going through gate 2 will mean the company comes to 'real action' with evacuation tests etc.

Why is DOT revoking the route today? I assume, that may be another trouble for Baltia. For years, DOT didn't worry about the route occupied by defunct 'airline', but not anymore. My guess is that some real airline is finally after the route, and it's impossible for DOT to keep it for Baltia since it proved its inability to fly. So, I'd expect DOT to revoke the authority regardless of Baltia's answers (surely, they have any right in the world to do that) and later grant it to another airline. Now it's about time for airlines to obtain rights for new routes for summer schedule...

Anthony, in message 16416 you wrote you were told by Baltia that 17 of the 18 required manuals are approved. Now you're told by Baltia that the process is re-started from the beginning in another office (and, likely, that is done some time ago, not yesterday), so, no manual approvals exist (and, obviously, ever existed). I can't imagine how the first statement couldn't be a direct and willingful lie, knowing what's going on now.

Sure thing, Baltia is a scam. Igor, Barry (and, probably, other folks) have to be jailed for that.

That's just a picture of some wall. Why not post it on the FB and let people imagine themselves into something? I bet that doesn't violate any rule or restriction. Posting pictures of Greek walls cannot be considered illegal in any way by anyone.

>Has anyone seen their FB picture that looks like a bunch of Russian advertisements near an Olympic sized pool? Hmmm. I wonder where and what that is a picture of? Sochi? St Pete?
Neither of those. The advertisements are in Greek language and phone numbers there are in Greek standard, not Russian. So, I guess, that's just a wall somewhere in Greece with empty space on it. Hard to believe it has anything in common with (the new) Baltia Airlines.

Flyers Fan,
the answer to your question is in 'HD Video & Pictures' message in the forum's header. Yes, the plane does have seats inside. It has them... and that's it. The interior looks old and nasty. Of course, that's all FAA's fault - the agency didn't allow Baltia to install a brand new interior with in-flight entertainment, so, Baltia has to hope for a launch with those seats looking as they date back to 80s...

331.000 as a loss is a non-sense. The plane took much more than that - engines payments (lease, delivery, return to the U.S. from Malaysia), ferry to Malaysia (fuel, navigation fees, insurance etc.), some technical stuff was done there to imitate service preparations (and that also did cost something, of course), parking fees there (how long did it stay? a year or less?)
One cannot estimate the exact figure without knowing all those prices. At least, obviously, it took much more than 331 thousand. And there's no reason not to believe the company itself that states it lost 1.6 million.

Not to contradict your overall impression on Baltia (that is reasonable, I think), but 'some-other-airline-would-take-this' argument is not true. US carriers cannot do that as Baltia is currently holding the route rights. And Russian airlines are very 'Moscow-centric', sometimes even offering to fly from one Siberia city to another with connection in Moscow. Sad, but true...

St.Petersburg airport has its own statistics on passengers boarding for NYC, and the pax number is fairly big - as one Pulkovo official told me over a year ago, 'enough to fill three weekly flights' (and since then, the airport enjoyed 20% passengers flow growth both in 2011 and 2012). Yep, the traffic seems to be highly seasonable with good load in the summer and mediocre (at best) in February & March, but it does exist.

> OFFICE AT PULKOVO, ST PETERSBURG including terminal allocation
That's not true. Actually, Baltia had an office rented there, but lost it. Now it is taken by Emirates, as I was told. If anyone cares to get a terminal floor plan of St.Petersburg airport and point me where Baltia's office is, I can go there with a photo camera, take pictures (if the location is not somewhere in restricted area) and put them here. Let's see if there actually is Baltia sign or not...

They have to do something special. Flying a 33-year-old (NOW it is 33 years) plane won't make potential customers too happy. So, to gain passengers attention, Baltia has to enter the market either with low prices or with some special level of comfort. Putting an old junkyard with dense seats configuration on the line won't win people's minds for the company.

And statistics from St.Petersburg airport confirms that, too. Passenger traffic at Pulkovo enjoys substantial growth again - some 20% more passengers are served this year compared to the beginning of 2011. Now it's pretty obvious regular NY flights will find a good share of passengers.

That won't help much. While Delta flights to Atlanta were half-empty, NYC service is blossoming. Russian carriers almost trippled a number of flights on that route (with Aeroflot launching a second daily flight and Transaero starting a daily service).

Either way, my impression is that Baltia's real competition isn't from Russian carriers (that fly from Moscow). Due to inconvenient connections at Moscow, it's much better to fly European airlines with stopovers in Europe. The price is almost the same with better service and wide departure/arrival time choice.

3 to 8 weeks
term doesn't look good at all. Since NYC-LED traffic is highly seasonal, it only makes sense to start the service in summer time. In late autumn and winter there won't be enough passengers on the line. Having the manuals approved in June, the company won't be able to start until late summer (considerable time needed for proving flights, tests etc.) or autumn, missing almost all the sweet summer traffic and making it reasonable to start in 2013. Most likely, the FAA killed a peak season for Baltia this year.
The good news is that St.Petersburg passenger traffic continues to grow in double figures per year. In February, it grew up 20% comparing to 2011.

Not, really. The airport wants big world-class airlines badly, so, last autumn it would do almost everything to make Emirates happy enough to come to the city. But, connection to NY is another thing it covets. If Baltia ever is close to launch, the airport will find a facility, for sure. Either way, a new building is well under construction and is to be opened in 2013, so, all offices will be brand new that time.

That's what I was told - they had an office, but do not anymore. Emirates took it over.

On a popular St.Petersburg board, I had a conversation with a man working for Pulkovo airport owner. He wasn't willing to talk too much, but gave some hints:
1) Passenger traffic between St.Petersburg and New York does exist. 'Enough to fly at least thrice a week in the summer', as the guy wrote. NY is by far the most popular destination that has no direct connection to St. Petersburg.
2) Pulkovo management is passionate to find an airline that would launch the route, offering significant discounts for that.
3) Baltia, some time ago, dropped an office they used to lease in St. Petersburg airport, and the facility went to Emirates.

Passenger traffic between New York and St. Petersburg
currently is estimated to be as high as 50.000 passengers/year. That's what CEO of Pulkovo, St.Petersburg airport, said today. Though, he didn't specify if that number (50 thousand) is one- or two-way. Also, he said that the airport is pushing hard to have the route opened, but '<the effort> haven't led to a result as of now'. Though, the owner 'counts on that the agreement will be made'.
Actually, it looks like there is enough traffic for at least a seasonal summer route, 3x or 4x weekly. With considerable slowdown in the winter. Hopefully, direct flight itself (as well as a coming bilaterally eased visa process) may boost the traffic even higher.

Good news about passenger traffic between Russia & USA also exist: the two countries are finalizing bilateral visa process simplification. Unfortunately, visas will remain quite expensive (140 USD), but will be granted for quite a long timespan (three years instead of current one year). That will definitely boost a tourist traffic between the cities.

I believe, first they have to assess the route, its business value, then, if deciding to launch, get timeslots and office space from airport (even on preliminary terms), and only after all preparational work is done, go to DOT for a route authority. Otherwise it would be strange - request route rights not having a convenient landing/departing/gate times or insufficient office premises would make route launch senseless.

Good news for Baltia is that LED airport has launched a discount program recently. Every airline that starts a route to a new destination will get BIG discounts for ground airport handling. So, if Baltia manages to get in the air, it will be a subject to those discounts. And that definitely will help financially.

The link - just remove the closing bracket, it will be fine. Or try this one: http://www.fontanka.ru/2011/10/10/096/

> Delta already flies to Pulkovo Airport via Frankfurt.
Nope. That was the case some 20 years ago, but those flights are long gone. Even code-sharing with Air France through Paris is not active anymore. Though, Delta still keeps ticket selling offices in St. Petersburg.

As far as I understand Russian news, talks between Delta and LED operators are a fact (airport's owners say the talks happen '3-4 times a week'). I don't think Delta would waste time talking about something it couldn't achieve. Or, if willing to fly, it could be stopped by some uncertified startup.

One more delay...
In the meantime, St. Petersburg airport owners are in active talks with Delta about launching JFK-LED flights next summer. (have a link in Russian only: http://www.rbcdaily.ru/2011/10/11/focus/562949981699535)
Seems like Baltia is clearly out of time to start its operations.