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Looks bad here. Have been gone for a few months and this is sad
I would be willing to bet dollars to donuts the Notice of Intent (NOI)includes road access. If not they will need to helicopter everything in and crews on a daily basis. Then you are looking at a +$1M program. So I don't think they will need any additional permitting. It would all be covered in the materials submitted. It will, as you point out, require a reclamation plan which is also part of the NOI as well as a bond to ensure that reclamation is completed. My guess is the bond will be in excess of $50k and I included that in my estimate for a 10 hole program.
My starter program cost estimate would be a small portion of their 43-101 proposal. I was just throwing out a guess so don't put to much into my numbers. I would be interested in pulling the NOI that they submitted to the BLM as that would have the total number of holes and approximate depths along with locations.
Winter and cold is not a problem for drilling. They don't get any significant amount of snow there since they are in the rain shadow of the Sierra Mtns. But drilling in the winter does increase cost as everything just takes a bit longer and there are more issues. Having gone through a winter in Montana CM would be a piece of cake.
There are a number of good labs in Reno that can do the work. All my drill samples are running 3-4 weeks for results right now. You are right in that ASL is a good lab, in fact from my test work they are in the top 2.
It is uncommon for there to be a drilling company locally. It is no big deal to get them from all over the west. Right now drills are hard to come by so that may be a delay.
Once the roads are in, which will be necessary prior to any drilling access will not be an issue. In fact logistically this would be an easy job.
Cat just a few points of clarification so people don't get a distorted idea of time frames.
The drill hole locations would have been on their Notice of Intent that was submitted to the BLM. They would have needed to locate the holes and access to the holes. If they do drill my guess is that it would be reverse circulation drilling as it is less expensive and faster. A modest drill program will take 5-8 weeks. Currently labs are backed up and results are coming in roughly 1 month after samples hit the lab. For a 10 hole program with 700 foot holes you are looking at about $350k which would include all costs.
At best if they started tomorrow they would be 10 weeks out from having results to press release. Also it should be noted that the site is not remote. It is a very easy and short drive from Lone Pine. Logistics are not a problem.
Charles: To explore, define a resource, complete a feasibility study, permit and start to mine is about a 5-7 year process. If everything goes well.
ET just so there is no confusion they are not doing a feasibility study. They only applied for drill permits as per the press release. Those are very different things. They do not yet have anything to do a feasibility study on. First they need to drill a resource/reserve then they do the feasibility study.
Drilling costs about $20/foot and assays are $30/sample. A rough estimate for total cost to drill out an ore body would be in the order of $25 million. With another $10 million to go through final feasability.
Santa Rosa is the lead, zinc, silver portion of the property. Not sure about this since the report describes it as being surrounded by wilderness but that it is a very good target. It is on the south east end of the property if you look at a Topo map.
They filed the permits for under 5 acres. That permit in called a Notice of Intent which is what they stated in the PR. If it was more they would have said they filed the Plan of Operations. Simple as that.
Cat come on this is for up to 5 acres. I have done these plans and they are 10 pages at most. And to throw out a billion $$ as if that apply here is just so wrong and misleading. My last one was $28,000 for 4 acres and 41 holes. To throw out the billion is just irresponsible. It may apply to a porphyry copper pit but this ain't that. Stay real my friend
Tree there are different levels of permitting Songro submitted a NOI. If the disturbance is under 5 acres that is all that needs to be submitted. It is a much lower threshold to get done. There is no public comment period. If they move to a plan of operations then it is a bigger deal and there is public comment and it will take a year plus. You can disagree but it is not a big deal unless there is something unique as nesting raptors or artifacts. Look on a BLM site about a NOI.
CAT the Notice is the permit application. EVERYONE THEY FILED!!!! I hope that is clear. Also you do not hire an engineer to file a NOI. I have done plenty in my days and they are very straight forward. Just tell what you are going to do and how you will reclaim. There may be a need for archaeological work and wildlife if there are sensitive species in the area, but the BLM often does that if they are not over booked.
Cat the notice of intent is the permit. The NOI is what it is called. Once they go over 5 acres they will need to file a Plan of Opperations which is much more involved.
Fin actually it is not a feasibility study. They filed a Notice of Intent which will allow up to 5 acres of disturbance on BLM lands. This will cover roads, drill pads and sumps. My guess is that they filed 2 since they have 2 separate claim blocks. Typically this takes 15 days to approve once the Notice is deemed complete by the BLM. They may run into a few things that they will have to add to the NOI but these are generally very simple and easy to obtain. Good to see them taking this first step to becoming an explorer and moving thing forward. Very good sign indeed!
End2WAR the payments are high as is the NSR. Companies try to do deals where they have low payments at the front end of a deal so they can put money in the ground exploring. This deal has cost over 500k in 2 years. Just think if they could have put that into exploration and permitting. Also a 4% NSR is on the high and there should be a clause to buy back at least a portion of the NSR.
Who was your bud? 10/3 was a few days ago
Bi don't get me wrong I love the property but sungro needs to do some things to be an investment for me. If I could get my hands on the property I would, but I have worked in the mining industry since 1974 and believe I could move things forward. They should have a Geo out there generating info. It is a small cost compared to what they pay to hold the property. They could be talking about good numbers and new ideas. Good news for investors. Easy and cheep to do.
Tree I a agree and thank you for the info. SG has not reported any reserves nor should they. I had just stumbled across this and had to comment on what I consider false info. You have posted well thought and fact based info, but people like cat seem to think if they write it it is true. I must state I do not own this stock nor would I. It does not meet my investment requirements. I need to see cash in the bank and the right people. Add geopolitical risk and no thanks. Investors at times look at $0.00X price and think how much they will make. I see losses. I would rather invest in a $7.00 stock that I think will go up than this. I just want to put out real info rather then the false statements I see here. Cat and I agree that this is not a place to invest but he puts out false info for some agenda that is not based in the real world. Much like the post.... I think this will go to 0.35 in a year. I think I will get together with a super model in a year. Guess what not going to happen.
BigB it is clear that you do not understand how exploration works. Drilling completed to date is not sufficient to base reserves on. There are different classifications for resources and the MII method is used in Canada. You are correct in that none of the pre 43-101 requirements information can be used in developing a "Qualified" resource but it clearly stated in the 43-101 regs that historic info can be reported in a 41-101 document as long is is stated as such. Timberline and any company going to move CM forward would conduct additional drilling in the areas already explored and continue to expand those resources. They would need to go back in and do infill drilling to move resources from Inferred to Indicated to Measured categories. That is how it is done. There are also many other areas to drill which have been targeted but have yet to see any drilling. Read the report.
As to your Illegal statements that makes me laugh. Did they report any fraudulent information? Did they distort any information? Would it be better and in the investors interest to not report any information on the property. Look at who did the work Newmont and BHP. Do you think they faked the info. Also historic information can be used as compliant if the assay certificates are available. Seems to me SUNGRO got a document to inform investors and to help raise $$ - Which they have done a terrible job at thus far. One reason they may be having trouble is they signed a terrible agreement with the underlying owners, but to their credit that info is there for all to see in the report.
Corle - Actually there is a need for drilling and positive results for a stock to make a run. Once positive results start flowing the price will move. I do not expect any significant movements in SUNGRO until they start drilling. If they get a drill on the ground they will hit something based on the data I have seen in the 43-101. Most investors are not going to be looking at things like permitability. They see good numbers they invest. I look at market cap as one of the most important components in valuing a company. That said the other critical thing I look at is cash in the bank. Without that they are dead in the water. I look at people after that and try to evaluate the projects on a technical level. All my investing is companies listed on the TSX. They may have US listings a well but data is easy to get here http://www.tmx.com/
If you want to look at 2 that I love that fit all the criteria look at GCU - insane stock structure. This should be a $200M market cap in my opinion, and money on the bank for another year or 2. Also LCC. What they are drilling could be a +billion dollar deposit. As for SUNGRO I do not expect much to happen until they can get $$. Permits are a non starter for me. They will get drill permits, but they need cash to drill then this one will run, but I just don't see how they move without results. They could be generating news by getting a geo out on the ground and sampling and defining more drill targets, but that even seems to be beyond their capability right now. It is an easy way to generate news and start investors following the company progress.
NI 43-101 is a Canadian stock exchange requirement. SUNGRO is not listed on the Canadian exchanges. So there is not a NI 43-101 requirement. For a US listed company the language does not apply so it can't be a 43-101. It can be in the style of a 43-101 report but the actual 43-101 is dictated by Canadian law which does not apply to a US listed Company. The report does a respectable job outlining the geology and compiling all of the work done to date. There is nothing wrong with the report SUNGRO was just trying to do something that does not apply to a US company. Just a lack of experience by the people running the company
Again this is not correct. Timberline had large payments due to the property owners and without a delay in payment they decided to walk. I sat with the BLM a few years ago and there were lots of comments against the Timberline permit. Most of those comments were much like yours CAT in that they said that the BLM had to consider the impacts of mining prior to issuing the road and drill permits. As the NOI application was just for a road and drill holes that type of analysis was uncalled for. The BLM had requested Timberline supply help to the BLM in re-writing the opinion to address the fact that this type of analysis was uncalled for as mining was not contemplated. Even if it may be a result in the long term, without knowing the location of a mine, the type, the size, the processing that type of analysis is pointless. The comments from the BLM were that permits would be issued for the exploration work. That is all that needs to happen for positive news. Again as an investor in junior companies I don't care if they mine. In fact I hope they never do and get bought out. Just look at jr stocks and see what happens from discovery to through reserve definition - price goes up fast. Once they stare feasibility price goes down as it is a long process. Investors will not be around for a mine. Get out after the run-up.
CAT again this you make statements that have no basis.
You state "Different companies have owned the CM claims for years and all they have done is passed on trying to get the mining permits."
If this were the case how was it drilled? Another question to answer.... It was drilled because companies received permits, built roads and drilled holes. Newmont even drilled when it was a WSA as did Asamera. Timberline left because they wanted the underlying owners to defer payments owed to them while the permitting process was ongoing and the owners said no. To state that permits can not be had has no basis in fact. To state it will take time to obtain permits is probably a much more accurate statement. Just don't throw stuff out there that has no basis in fact. This area is open to mineral location so it will be open to permitting.
As to the value of the company, to me it is simple
# of shares x share price = value of company. Also profit from a mining operation has little to do with corporate debt. If there is a positive cash flow from a mine it is a profit center for the company.
Agreed IM. With $$ comes permits and drills. Without the company will wither away and there will be no winners.
It makes no sense to talk of size of mines, processing, heaps, tailings, mill site etc as none of this can be determined without drilling out a deposit, doing metallurgical work per-feasibility, feasibility and scoping studies. After that we can discuss foot print. It may be that they find very high-grade and it is an underground mine as we see happening in the Carlin trend. It may be so high-grade it is a direct shipping ore and no facilities are needed, just train to the mills in Nevada. The ONLY thing that matters now is drilling holes and finding gold. Then stocks runs, people smile and take $$ off the table long before there is any mine permitting activities. All the mine related discussions are just a distraction as to where the project is and what will happen with success. People are not here to invest in a mine they are to invest in a stock. Most everyone here will be long gone if they find a few million ounces and the stock runs to 5 bucks. Who cares about a mine, mine complex, dust, noise, and on and on. Just drill and find out what is there and ring a profit and get out and move on. So Simple really
Cat again just because you say it, does not make it true.
"Take a look at a topo map of Conglomerate Mesa and then draw in a 10 mile open pit mine. Drive for 10 miles and realize how long that is." that is what you said followed by: "Even a 5 mile by 5 mile destruction is HUGE!" So you did say a ten mile pit which is such a distortion of reality. Even a 5x5 mile pit is a distortion of reality. Now I know that you know nothing about geology but when they state a 2.5 mile long trend that does not translate that the entire length will be mineralized. In fact it is not all going to be mineralized. We don't even know if there is 500 feet mineralized to an extent that it would become a mine, yet here you are talking about 10x10 mile open pits. In Nevada there are many trends, the Carlin trend, Battle Mountain trend, Walker Lane trend all of which are in excess of 50 miles long. Does that mean there is a 50 mile long pit on these trends. Again take your time and think.... NO there are not. These are just areas where the tectonics and stratigraphy have the preparation and the heat sources and fluid sources are such that there is a higher likelihood for deposits along these trends.
IM this is a much better way to skin a cat. Share structure is critical to jr companies. When investing there are 3 rules;
1. Share structure
2. People
3. Property
Share structure is still good, with the chance of going bad very fast should they need to sell into the market to raise funds.
People are not there yet. They need ore finders and people with a proven record of success. It is a very difficult thing to find an ore deposit and the people that do tend to do so multiple times. Thus SUNGRO is short on the people side.
The Property is a good one but right now they are a one trick pony and there must be political risk factored into the property evaluation. Mineral activities can go forward in CA, but it is not Nevada, Utah or Wyoming where the states tend to favor development and investment into the areas. With a one property portfolio any delays in exploration stop the news train and without good additional properties which can be worked when thee are delays investors will tend to loose interest with long delays in news. Which is where we are right now it would seem.
Thus it seems to me that SUNGRO scores 2 out of 3 right now with a possibility to improve on the property side. But without the people this train goes nowhere.
You make me laugh Cat. I do enjoy your chicken little the sky is falling approach to this with having zero knowledge. Do you know what side of the ridge the activities of Newmont and BHP and Timberline were on? Think for a bit .... it is not a trick question but you will want to get this one right.... Give up? They are on the east side of the ridge so you just presented a very good argument as to why the winds will blow away from Lone Pine and the Owens Valley. You may hike a lot but evidently you do not know how to read a topo map. The thermal induced winds you speak of will not blow up over the ridge and down the other side especially when the prevailing winds are west to east. So yep you got a good laugh out of me. Again get off the mining kick. If you asked everyone here that if SUNGRO had a discovery and defined ounces to make the market cap of the company run to even $100 mill (hypothetical)and we all agreed that they would never mine a thing do you think the investors would respond "I am out of here"? You do make things enjoyable here. Keep up the good work and keep me laughing.
Imcat good catch I did make a mis-statement in typing my reply. CM is East of Owens lake and thus west to east winds would carry any dust away from the lake area. But again these are not issues at this time SUNGRO is not getting ready to mine. They need to explore simple as that. This would require building a few roads and drilling off those roads. Also to note is that the CM area was withdrawn from wilderness consideration based of the mineral potential in the region. Thus the feds have recognized this is an area that may be developed.
I have no idea what point you are trying to make. It is true that in the jr sector the greatest price appreciation comes at the time of discovery and the development of a reserve. CM has many areas to explore and the best spots may not be where Newmont or BHP conducted their activities. Those are not junior companies and their work would not have impacted their share price unless they were putting together a world class deposit. The results they pulled would get some attention if a jr company drilled them. At this point there is no good understanding on ore controls and as more drilling is completed those understandings will come. As SUNGRO develops the ounces in the ground or pulls long intercepts of +1gpt material they will move in price. There is no need to talk of mining at this point as there is nothing to mine. That will take additional drilling and success. It is not a slam dunk that there is a mine there. Give it 2-5 years of continuing exploration and than you will know the answer to that. If it turns out there are 10 million ounces at a high grade, all of your issues will be addressed as the value in the ground will justify the costs of mitigation. If there are 250,000 ounces at a low grade it will sit and not be mined.
The whole St Helens thing is a ploy to distract. When material is exploded 10s of miles into the atmosphere it goes a long ways. If it is blown of the millions of miles of dirt roads in the world is does not have the same impact. With regards to the dust issue the prevailing winds are west to east. As CM is west of Owens lake the dust issue should be minimal. The location of the current known mineralization should not impact the lake or wildlife as the area does not drain to the lake area.
You do have some good points re permitting et al but it is to early in the game to know what issues there will be and how they will be dealt with.
Please try to stick to the real world. Comparing St Helens to a mining operation is sensationalizing at the best. You keep going to mining at CM. SUNGRO will never mine this-some mid tier or large company will should there be ounces there. If they find something during exploration their price will run. Look at the jr sector and you will see that the greatest price appreciation comes at the time of discovery and the development of a reserve. Prices almost always pull back as a property goes into the pre production phase. So dust is not an issue for investors. Any astute investor in the junior mining sector will be long gone after the initial resource is published.
That Imcat will need to be answered by the company. Should have all been done by now in my opinion, but $$ always dictate what can and can't be done. I was only pointing out that you were not accurately representing what needs to be done to proceed.
One problem in your analysis is that they do not need to complete an EIS at this time. They only need to file a Notice of Intent with the BLM which allows for surface disturbance of up to 5 acres. The process is meant to take 15 days but I suspect that it would take longer at this location. SUNGRO does not need to mine to run the stock, only drill hot holes.
Just my thoughts