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Perhaps Treaty is abandoning the crapy leases to pursue more productive leases! Check out their Colorado Acquisition Target Summary;
The first two cases you are quoting have allegations which have yet to be heard in court and ruled on by the judge! The second case, Jeffrey Mercer VS Ron Blackburn-Treaty Energy, was settled and the fraud allegation was never proven to be true by the judge.
Why are those cases be held out to be the truth of the matter when in fact no judge and/or jury has heard the case and ruled the allegations to be true?
I didn't say you were referring to Chris. I said you should ask Chris because I don't know what you are talking about.
But out of curiosity, if not Chris, then who are you referring to?
Decisions are best made by identifying and choosing alternatives based on the values and preferences of the decision maker. Are you suggesting we should rely on mere speculation, opinions and personal biases rather than factual information supported by documentation?
Treaty is at a sub penny and rightfully so as they have not demonstrated ongoing income potential. However, that can change with a completed deal with a proven revenue source.
This is a penny stock which comes with inherent risks. Remember when Treaty investors were told to sell before the Bankruptcy Petitioners took control of the company and wiped out our investment?
No smoke, no fire, just a lot of talk!
Wouldn't you think a claim like that along with the proof to support it might get the attention of the SEC? But, the lack of proof means it a baseless claim and not worthy of SEC consideration.
A position must be demonstrated or proven in order to be upheld, and therefore the burden of proof is on the person making the claim otherwise the claim is baseless!
Moreover, the same documentation which allowed the Rig to be shipped through U.S. Customs in Belize Customs will certainly allow the Rig to be sold legally to a third party. And at half its value (750K) that would be a deal don't you agree? How far would that money, without counting on the Wire Log equipment, go toward paying any outstanding judgements owed by Treaty?
Hang in there DCB change is a coming!
A claim by whom? And what documentation or link can we see to support that claim?
Lets just say Treaty is able to sell the Rig. What could it reasonably be sold for?
If, Treaty is able to sell the Rig and Wire Log equipment how much money do you think they can reasonably raise? Keeping in mind the Rig itself was allegedly worth about 1.5 million according to the Bankruptcy Petition last year.
Which is about as likely as finding a "mountain" in the State of Florida! LOL!
You are speaking in riddles. What 150K are you referring to? Vacation? Power and production of what well?
Perhaps Chris is better qualified to answer your question because I don't know what you are tailing about!
Your "mountain of evidence" is meaningless as evidenced by the lack of SEC involvement or any other law enforcement agency taking action against Treaty!
The first two cases you are quoting have allegations which have yet to be heard in court and ruled on by the judge! The second case, Jeffrey Mercer VS Ron Blackburn-Treaty Energy, was settled and the fraud allegation was never proven to be true by the judge.
Why are those cases be held out to be the truth of the matter when in fact no judge and/or jury has heard the case and ruled the allegations to be true?
Oh and you would like us to use the reasoning you're guilty until proven innocent! LOL! The burden of proof is on those making the claims of fraud, stolen rigs and smuggled rigs!
Take a close look at Mack's judgement it is against "Arcadia Drilling" and not Treaty! How has Mack confirmed the Rig in Belize is the Rig his used to own when there isn't a VIN to verify it?
Explain this;
It appears to me Chris is focusing his attention on getting financing and projects to generate income for Treaty. I am sure you would agree money would make all those problems nonexistent!
That is very weak position to defend since it lacks the proof necessary to corroborate a crime has occurred. And exactly why the SEC will never get involved with Treaty because the smoke it merely steam!
Remember when someone claimed a missing Rig must have been stolen and smuggled out of the country and upon closer examination we discovered there were no police reports, judgements or reasonable explanations for this;
The first two cases you are quoting have allegations which have yet to be heard in court and ruled on by the judge! The second case, Jeffrey Mercer VS Ron Blackburn-Treaty Energy, was settled and the fraud allegation was never proven to be true by the judge.
Why are those cases be held out to be the truth of the matter when in fact no judge and/or jury has heard the case and ruled the allegations to be true?
That is incorrect information much like the stolen rig and smuggling a rig out of the country which was DISMISSED with my following post;
And I am sure there is nothing to be concerned about since no charges have been leveled against Treaty in 6 years! Until there is actually verifiable proof of an investigation and more importantly charges brought against Treaty then SEC or any other governmental agency alleged investigation is baseless and mere wishful thinking!
Remember it is the party making the claim of Fraud who has the burden of proof! I am sure you have heard of the concept of "innocent until proven guilty." You can't go to civil court or to the local police station and say, its stolen, fraud, etc… and offer no proof of your allegation except to say, "make them show proof it not" and have them actually expect them to pursue an investigation or be awarded a judgement. LOL!
The SEC doesn't settle civil suits or get involved with allegations of fraud with no proof to support it either! I think its time to lay to rest the ongoing threat of SEC intervention we have been hearing about for over 5 years. Until charges are actually brought against Treaty those claiming fraud and predicting baseless SEC investigations can't be taken seriously.
Look what happened when we examined closely the allegations Treaty's Oil Rig was stolen and smuggled out of the country! I offered the explanation below and the best response was, "So what."
No pseudo lawyering here just offering a rule for exportation of vehicles which has to be strictly followed. And my investment hasn't been lost yet!
It appears close scrutiny of some of the allegations being touted by some like fraud, stolen rigs, smuggling, etc… become baseless claims upon closer inspection!
I agree we are discussing Treaty Energy and the specific topic surrounding the innuendo Treaty's Oil Rig is stolen and was smuggled out of the country. I offered a counter opinion with apparently unquestionable reasoning why this cannot be true.
It appears there are no other reasonable counter opinions explaining the facts outlined in my quoted paragraph below, because the topic has been abandoned and the best opinion offered to counter it is "So what."
Until verifiable evidence to the contrary is offered we can conclude Treaty is the legal owner of their Oil Rig, which was properly exported out of the country.
You have completely changed the topic being discussed. How does any part of your response answer, diminish and/or negate any of the points I have outlined here;
That makes absolutely no sense, because without legal documentation Treaty wouldn't have been able to ship it through U.S. Customs or Belize Customs!
No governmental agency, including the SEC, will get involved in a civil dispute over ownership of the Rig, because that is for the courts and a judge to determine.
Why does the burden of proof fall upon Treaty. The burden falls upon the person making the claim the Rig isn't Treaty's. If Mack could have proven ownership he would have done so already in a civil court. Instead, 6 years have lapsed and each year its in Treaty's possession decreases anyone claim to it.
I wonder who is claiming the depreciation of the Rig with the IRS over the past 6 years?
A "made up title" isn't very realistic unless you have proof of it to show us. Only proper verifiable documents would be accepted and matched against a VIN. Refer to the quoted rule below;
Section 192.2 Requirements for Exportation
That makes absolutely no sense, because without legal documentation Treaty wouldn't have been able to ship it through U.S. Customs or Belize Customs!
No governmental agency, including the SEC, will get involved in a civil dispute over ownership of the Rig, because that is for the courts and a judge to determine.
Why does the burden of proof fall upon Treaty. The burden falls upon the person making the claim the Rig isn't Treaty's. If Mack could have proven ownership he would have done so already in a civil court. Instead, 6 years have lapsed and each year its in Treaty's possession decreases anyone claim to it.
I wonder who is claiming the depreciation of the Rig with the IRS over the past 6 years?
A "made up title" isn't very realistic unless you have proof of it to show us. Only proper verifiable documents would be accepted and matched against a VIN. Refer to the quoted rule below;
How do you prove Fraud without settling legal ownership in a civil court? That judgment is agains Arcadia Drilling not Treaty. Treaty has documentation as evidenced by shipping the Rig through U.S. Customs and Belize Customs.
Fraud is easier said then proven! 6 years have lapsed and no fraud charges have been filed against anyone!
What is the relevance of the Rig being in Belize or anywhere else? If Mack had a legal judgment for the Rig he could force Treaty to return it or pay for it by pursuing the matter in civil court and proving it was his. Treaty's corporate office location was easy enough to find and serve with legal paperwork by the bankruptcy petitioners. I am sure Mack knows where to serve them if he so desired.
The Rig has been in Treaty's possession for about 6 years (2008-2014). What is the delay pursuing a judgement against Treaty if Mack is the legal owner?
If any State or Federal Law Enforcement Agency was involved, as claimed, Mack would need a judgement against Treaty to prove ownership of the Rig, because it is not for Law Enforcement to decide who is the legal owner and when presented with documentation by Treaty and Mack they won't be able to take one over the other. Moreover, if any Law Enforcement Agency was actually involved it wouldn't have taken 6 years to take action against Treaty corporate officers and recover the Rig since its and Treaty's location is known.
To date, no one has explained how the Rig passed through U.S. Customs and Belize Customs without proper documentation and a matching VIN to verify ownership. Without proper documentation/proof of ownership and a VIN that Rig wouldn't be allowed out of the country or accepted into Belize.
BO already said he looked everywhere for the VIN. Moreover, he didn't find a spot where the VIN should have been and was missing. So, you came to the conclusion Treaty was in possession of a stolen Rig on a mere personal hunch, "that to me sure sounds like it's stolen property?"
Perhaps you can apply your research skills to locate the court documents referred to in BO's post highlighted in red where "the owner of the rig in 2008 was instructed by the court to transfer the ownership to another person as part of a settlement." It would be an interesting and informative read I bet!
Belize Oilwatch Sunday, 11/23/14 06:41:48 PM
Re: tdbowieknife post# 84770
Post # of 84810
I suspect a vehicle (in this case a truck mounted rig) could be legally imported into Belize in the same way that my car in Belize City can be registered by showing a certificate of title which shows a VIN number of the vehicle.
No-one bothers to check the VIN number on the vehicle itself in this process although they do sometimes check that the vehicle matches the description on the paperwork. So in theory a vehicle with a VIN number on paper but with no VIN number on a vehicle plaque could be imported into Belize.
The car registration process is no different in Belize than the UK, UAE, Venezuela or Egypt in my own personal experience.
Regarding your allegation that the VIN number was removed - there is no evidence to support that. No vehicle plaque with a place for a VIN number which had been removed was found.
Also I have not seen any evidence to support your allegation that the VIN number was removed because the rig was stolen. The facts show that Treaty did not steal the rig and that the owner of the rig in 2008 was instructed by the court to transfer the ownership to another person as part of a settlement - which I understand they did not do.
Cheers
Belize Oilwatch
Belize CA
Just facts from Belize
Thank you for your fair-minded and informative post! It appears from selection I am quoting from your post below you have seen the documentation presented by Treaty of their legal ownership of the Rig.
Do you have any additional information (court case or link) you can provide regarding the portion I highlighted in red regarding the owner previous to Treaty being instructed to transfer ownership as part of a settlement?
Also I have not seen any evidence to support your allegation that the VIN number was removed because the rig was stolen. The facts show that Treaty did not steal the rig and that the owner of the rig in 2008 was instructed by the court to transfer the ownership to another person as part of a settlement - which I understand they did not do.
I am not defending anyone just expressing an opinion regarding some unsupported claims of theft, fraud and rigs going through U.S. Customs without a VIN. I don't follow the logic behind those groundless claims.
Once again, for the umpteenth time, exaggerated allegations made by parties in a lawsuit and not proven to be true by the judge hearing the case are meaningless! Moreover, the SEC nor any other Law Enforcement Agency has acted on those unproven allegations. Why? Because, they are just claims and are meaningless and can't be used against Treaty!
Look what happened when the Bankruptcy Petitioners made their exaggerated claims… CASE DISMISSED!
I have not said they have been successful and none of the shareholders can be happy with the current pps, however some are going too far with outrageous claims of fraud, stolen rig etc… without a shred of verifiable evidence or even the support of SEC or Law Enforcement o support those claims.
Having the original title to property which has been superseded by a new title of ownership doesn't qualify as fraud or render the secondary title subordinate to the original! Clearly, Mack has not taken any steps civilly to enforce his alleged ownership of the rig! Sounds like he just can't accept he has lost the rig.
The fact of the matter is all the old board is gone and there someone new running Treaty. All it takes is for one of the events enumerated in the press release to be confirmed and revenues generated to turn all this around.
I am sure everyone has an opinion, which is meaningless until it is authenticated and acted upon civilly or criminally affecting Treaty!
Your example is much like someone taking possession of property in any civil judgment. For example, when an impounded vehicle being sold to recover costs by a towing company. The car is issued a new title and sold. And the original owner now comes into the picture and claims they have the original title. However, there original title has no legal authority, since a new title was issued rendering the original title obsolete and void.
Moreover, Treaty has possessed the Rig for 5 or more years without anyone making a legal claim, having a judgment for it or even filing a stolen property report. How can the rig be considered "stolen?"
And what reasonable explanation is there for getting the rig through U.S. Customs and Belize Customs? How did Treaty beat this rule;
Section 192.2 Requirements for Exportation
Basic requirements
A person attempting to export a used self-propelled vehicle shall present to Customs, at the port of exportation, both the vehicle and the required documentation describing the vehicle to include the VIN or, if the vehicle does not have a VIN, the product identification number (PIN). Exportation of a vehicle will be permitted only upon compliance with these requirements, unless the vehicle was Eentered into the United States under an in-bond procedure, a carnet, a Temporary Importation Bond, or under a personal exemption for non-residents who entered the vehicle for a 1-year period.
Perhaps you have a theory to offer on how a large piece of equipment left the U.S. without drawing the attention of U.S. Customs? And how it bypassed Belize Customs too. I am sure the person claiming ownership, Mack, would have brought that to the Customs Authorities in both countries and we would have seen appropriate action taken. But of course that isn't the case, because it can't be proven to be factual.
I recall BO's post saying Princess has a copy of the documentation proving Treaty owned the rig. And why is this missing VIN being offered by BO in a post today when it was allegedly discovered in May 2013!
This is a very weak attempt to create doubt of Treaty's ownership of the rig at the time of its impending sale don't you think?
Pure conjecture as there is absolutely no evidence to back the claim of improper documentation or bypassing U.S. Customs or Belize Customs either!
There isn't any evidence anyone is claiming the rig to be stolen since there is no one pursuing that claim with any U.S. Law Enforcement Agency or Court System! CASE DISMISSED!
Don't let the lack of recovering damages overshadow the overwhelming victory Treaty had in winning and stopping the Bankruptcy Petitioners from taking over the company!
Treaty is still here and the petitioners gained absolutely nothing. This is why I say, CASE DISMISSED!
If Treaty didn't follow the rule(s) they wouldn't have been able to ship the rig out of the country! And a similar rule(s) would have been applicable in Belize too. Meaning proper documentation and a VIN to compare it to. So, the VIN, if missing, would have been removed after export/import. CASE DISMISSED!
Pretty basic rule to follow as outlined here;
Section 192.2 Requirements for Exportation
Basic requirements
A person attempting to export a used self-propelled vehicle shall present to Customs, at the port of exportation, both the vehicle and the required documentation describing the vehicle to include the VIN or, if the vehicle does not have a VIN, the product identification number (PIN). Exportation of a vehicle will be permitted only upon compliance with these requirements, unless the vehicle was Eentered into the United States under an in-bond procedure, a carnet, a Temporary Importation Bond, or under a personal exemption for non-residents who entered the vehicle for a 1-year period.
This is not an optional rule to follow. Pay close attention to the word "only" meaning you can't ship the rig through customs without documentation of ownership and a VIN to verify and compare it to!
Section 192.2 Requirements for Exportation
Basic requirements
A person attempting to export a used self-propelled vehicle shall present to Customs, at the port of exportation, both the vehicle and the required documentation describing the vehicle to include the VIN or, if the vehicle does not have a VIN, the product identification number (PIN). Exportation of a vehicle will be permitted only upon compliance with these requirements, unless the vehicle was Eentered into the United States under an in-bond procedure, a carnet, a Temporary Importation Bond, or under a personal exemption for non-residents who entered the vehicle for a 1-year period.
"So what" is the defense? The point is they didn't move the Rig through U.S. Customs without the required VIN as evidenced by this;
Section 192.2 Requirements for Exportation
Basic requirements
A person attempting to export a used self-propelled vehicle shall present to Customs, at the port of exportation, both the vehicle and the required documentation describing the vehicle to include the VIN or, if the vehicle does not have a VIN, the product identification number (PIN). Exportation of a vehicle will be permitted only upon compliance with these requirements, unless the vehicle was Eentered into the United States under an in-bond procedure, a carnet, a Temporary Importation Bond, or under a personal exemption for non-residents who entered the vehicle for a 1-year period.
There is corroboration here;
Section 192.2 Requirements for Exportation
Basic requirements
A person attempting to export a used self-propelled vehicle shall present to Customs, at the port of exportation, both the vehicle and the required documentation describing the vehicle to include the VIN or, if the vehicle does not have a VIN, the product identification number (PIN). Exportation of a vehicle will be permitted only upon compliance with these requirements, unless the vehicle was Eentered into the United States under an in-bond procedure, a carnet, a Temporary Importation Bond, or under a personal exemption for non-residents who entered the vehicle for a 1-year period.
Here is some relevant excerpts from Treaty;
NEW ORLEANS – Nov 11, 2014 -- TREATY Energy Corporation
We are very concerned about the information leaked via “posts’ on PUBLIC Bulletin Board systems;
These posts contained insider information about management involvement in Belize. They contained false information about former consultants being involved in activities on said trip. Misleading statements regarding TREATY’S ownership and title to said interests and deliberate misinformation about contractual discussions and outcomes of said discussions.
Let us now lay out the facts:
• TREATY owes a debt of gratitude to our colleagues in Belize for ENSURING the safe storage and periodic maintenance of the equipment in Belize thereby allowing TREATY the opportunity to realize value on said assets. We will release pictures of the assets on our website and link to the FACEBOOK page;
• The Hackmeyer Group was fully aware of our trip to Belize and in fact fully sanctioned it occurring. The Princess Group in Belize was fully apprised of all details surrounding said agreement with the Hackmeyer Group and an agreement in principle was struck between all parties which is to be ratified subject to review by each party’s respective legal counsel within 14 days;
o TREATY has received an EXPRESSION OF INTEREST with regard to sale of said equipment to a company with opportunities in the region;
o [color=red]The Hackmeyer Group has agreed and TREATY has agreed to ensure that all parties in Belize are satisfied that they have been fairly compensated for all debts outstanding in the country from the sale of any of the drilling assets which remain;
o These debts include outstanding funds owing to various governmental agencies, which have a vested interest in ensuring that FULL jurisdictional assessment has been applied to TREATY and its ownership of said assets. We are thankful that even though unfortunately, there are outstanding issues relating to the relationship with the government, such issues will now be resolved subsequent to the repayment of all debts, BUT that TITLE AND OWNERSHIP to said assets is not one of those issues. TREATY is fully responsible for any and all issues it “left behind” in Belize as there is no doubt in the minds of officials that it is in fact the sole owner of the assets after much due diligence.
It sure looks that way! Did you happen to catch this statement in BO's post? It would appear BO has more than just an interest in the preservation of land/sea in Belize.
How does BO have access to and/or any authority to inspect Treaty's rig for a VIN? This unrelenting pursuit of Treaty and revelation by BO sure is getting "interesting." Why continue to post the alleged "facts" if your primary purpose of protecting the land/sea has been satisfied by Treaty no longer drilling in Belize?
It appears the sale of the Rig is causing concern to some parties and attempts to obstruct/delay the sale are being made by removing the VIN and create doubt by claiming its missing because its stolen.
However, that is proven to be fictional when you consider this;
Section 192.2 Requirements for Exportation
Basic requirements
A person attempting to export a used self-propelled vehicle shall present to Customs, at the port of exportation, both the vehicle and the required documentation describing the vehicle to include the VIN or, if the vehicle does not have a VIN, the product identification number (PIN). Exportation of a vehicle will be permitted only upon compliance with these requirements, unless the vehicle was Eentered into the United States under an in-bond procedure, a carnet, a Temporary Importation Bond, or under a personal exemption for non-residents who entered the vehicle for a 1-year period.
Belize Oilwatch Sunday, 11/23/14 08:01:26 AM
Re: Stiflerz28camarohemi post# 84763
Post # of 84772
This is going to get interesting.
I have been advised that Treaty had legal title to the rig to import it into Belize. They gave the title paperwork to Princess to process the initial importation.
No VIN number can be found on the rig. Neither me nor the Treaty country manager could find it when we checked the rig over in MAy 2013 while the rig was on San Juan 3.
Treaty have no-one in Belize to facilitate the sale of the rig and other equipment (including the logging unit) although Princess Petroleum have staff located in Belize City and Independence capable of doing this.
Cheers
Belize Oilwatch
Belize City, Belize CA
Just facts from Belize
Good question! Something can't be considered to be stolen when there is no claim in any United States Court or Law Enforcement Agency by an individual claiming ownership.
U.S. Customs requires a VIN in order to allow the exportation of the vehicle or a PIN where there isn't a VIN applied. If a vehicle which is supposed to have a VIN applied and it was removed that would clearly be a red flag.
So, to answer your question(s) the vehicle couldn't be exported much less imported without the VIN.
The true owner of the rig is Treaty since they have been in possession of it for the past 5 years or so without any legal challenge to say otherwise.
Considering the relevant facts as presented here the only reasonable explanation for the missing VIN while the Rig has been is Belize is someone removed in in Belize to delay the pending sale.
Section 192.2 Requirements for Exportation
Basic requirements
A person attempting to export a used self-propelled vehicle shall present to Customs, at the port of exportation, both the vehicle and the required documentation describing the vehicle to include the VIN or, if the vehicle does not have a VIN, the product identification number (PIN). Exportation of a vehicle will be permitted only upon compliance with these requirements, unless the vehicle was Eentered into the United States under an in-bond procedure, a carnet, a Temporary Importation Bond, or under a personal exemption for non-residents who entered the vehicle for a 1-year period.
Don't forget the judgement shown for the alleged "stolen rig" was against Arcadia Drilling and not Treaty! And that was 5 years ago if I recall the date correctly. What has been done in the past 5 years to change the judgement or pursue the rig in civil court? Absolutely nothing!