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Vince, It is most likely quite a few of the people at the Korean Poultry Association read, write and speak english. Someone could just email them and see what they respond with.
The latest financial statement was for last year ending 12/31/12. The Korean deal wasn't announced until Feb this year so hopefully that is what they are using the money for to get that going. It should probably show on the 10Q we are waiting for.
I believe MS is going all out trying to pull off this Korean Chicken coup deal. This is probably our last chance. Dilution is the only financing he has. If we can get a PR or financial statement that shows any revenue came in or a balance due in accounts receivable then at some point the operation could become self-sustaining without further dilution.
This is the best we can hope for. If the deal pans out as first reported with 3,000 farms eventually then we could withstand a R/S. If at the time of a R/S the company has a true value as justified by revenue and profits then a R/S is not as devastating and can be offset by the increase in new buyers.
Our worse case scenario is if there is no revenue, maybe we never hear another word about Korean chickens (like Chili, like FEI, like GFE ect...) possibly another announcement of a NEW deal doing something completely out of left field again and we are sunk. A R/S with the only thing ECOS has going for it is speculation based on potential will be the disaster Surfguy predicts.
The potential here is huge. These are the reasons us longs are long: What is really intriguing is this statement from a PR released Oct 26th, 2012.
“We have visited the Ukraine recently where we had serious talks with the Ukrainian Government and expect results by the beginning of the year. To complete the Ukrainian orders, we will need to set up large production facilities in the US and are in talks with the EXIM bank for financing http://www.exim.gov/ as their mission is to promote US production for export.”
Link to PR:
http://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/1290506/000100201412000561/exh99-1.htm
There was another mention this year of Ukraine Officials traveling to Korea to continue talks about a possible deal with ECOS.
The CEO of ECOS (Michael Siegel) did a radio interview on 4 April 12 (link attached) he talked about the huge number of potential customers. At one point he said one country alone would require over 800 NPUs. The re-occurring revenue from the sale of the 2% additive is the big thing from any NPU sales. If you had anywhere near a sale of 800 NPU’s the revenue would be unbelievable.
This is only my opinion but I wonder if that country is the Ukraine? They would probably be very desperate to reduce oil consumption because being a part of the old Soviet Union they most likely get most their oil from Russia now. And Russia can be a very tough and unreliable energy supplier. So they maybe motivated even beyond the economic and environmental advantages of M-Fuel just to reduce their dependence on others for oil. You add up the 800 NPU’s for one country comment in the radio interview and the visits to and from Ukraine officials and this is what I speculate it could be - IMO!
Here is a link to the radio interview:
http://thestockradio.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/02/ECOS.mp3
You go to "Categories" and then "Technology" on the lower right hand side of the page you will find the interview. If I remember correctly he talked about this later in the interview but it is worth listening to the whole thing if you hadn't heard it before.
There is not too much current DD being posted by our newcomers. What we are waiting for is a PR or 8K that will update us on financing for the selling of M-Fuel in Korea and an update with how it is progressing. We are expecting it any day now but nobody has a working crystal ball so we wait. Below is the PR from Febuary 6, 2013. As you can see there is huge potential with 3,000 farms in this association alone.
Link to PR: http://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/1290506/000100201413000052/exh99-1.htm
Link to 8K:
http://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/1290506/000100201413000052/ecos8k-2052013.htm
EX-99.1 2 exh99-1.htm PRESS RELEASE DATED FEBRUARY 6, 2013.
Exhibit 99.1
EcoloCap Starts Production of M-Fuel in Korea
Barrington, IL- February 6, 2013 – EcoloCap Solutions Inc. (ECOS) Michael Siegel, CEO of EcoloCap Solutions Inc. states: “First and foremost, I want to thank our shareholders who have stood by us over the past many months. I am proud to announce that we will be producing revenue on continual bases selling a new blend of M-Fuel in Korea.
Korea is a major producer of chickens for export with approximately 3,000 chicken producers. A test was conducted in Anseong over a three-month period on the heating of hen houses with Kerosene (the present method) and M-Fuel. A control of 26,000-hatchling facility was heated with Kerosene. Another facility with 24,000 hatchlings was heated with M-Fuel. 89 degrees F is critical for the ideal temperature for the best maturation of chickens. The kerosene used to heat the chicken coups exhaust gases produce undesirable results in the maturation of chickens. ECOS has developed a new emulsion, alternative to kerosene that is comprised of 50% kerosene, 23% methanol, 24% water and 2% our special additive.
After three months of testing in conjunction with a large chicken producer and the Chicken Producers Association in Korea we have exciting results:
Kerosene M-Fuel (D-20)*
Hatchlings 26,000 24,000
Feathers Greater Fewer
Days to market 35-37 (1.5-1.8 kG) 33(1.5-1.8 kG)
Mortality Rate 5% 3.5%
Cost per liter $1.13 $0.69
Fuel Consumption/Unit 1 .8
Temperature Maintained 89 degrees C 89 degrees C
Relative Humidity 50% 76%
*Will flow at -20 Degrees C.
The conclusion is that by using the D-20 the chicken produces save money on fuel, bring birds to market earlier, reduce mortality, and reduce cost of processing (fewer feathers). The Chicken Producers Association is disseminating the results of this test to all its 3,000 members. ECOS has already received over $350,000 in monthly orders just from the Anseong area where the test were held. We are receiving new orders daily as the members of the association are receiving the test results. ECOS is ramping up production to handle the 40 Anseong farms by September (12,000,000 liter/month). ECOS is using local fuel distributers to distribute the D-20. D-20 has a worldwide market as an alternative to kerosene is for the reduction of toxic emissions and costs.”
EcoloCap’s original M-Fuel is a stable emulsion of various percent’s of diesel, water and EcoloCap’s proprietary additive, which is a stabilizing, non-polluting chemical. The final decision is based upon the customer’s needs for the final formulation. M-Fuel is produced utilizing our Nano Processing Unit (NPU). M-Fuel is a robust liquid emulsified fuel, with superior combustion, emission reduction and identical handling characteristics as the original diesel. M-Fuel is fully forward and backward compatible and requires no modification to the engines.
Let me throw in my 2 cents worth on this cost. I think the 0.475 per liter is what ECOS charges for their additive and for processing the fuel. As Kakaobaron broke down the costs it showed 0.50 for the kerosene and 0.36 for the methanol. These two alone would just about be 0.875 as ECOS shows as the cost when compared to straight kerosene. If there were the additional 0.475 charge from ECOS then the price per liter would be $1.35. But because they use almost 50% less D-20 fuel the cost to the farmers would be 68% of what it was with kerosene and they get better chickens to boot. I got this 68% based on ECOS numbers in the press release of 5,300 liters of D-20 used compared to 10,500 liters of straight kerosene.
I know MS said straight up that it is 0.475 per liter but the kerosene it self is already 0.50 per liter. So if my guess is correct then ECOS would receive 900,000 x 1.35 equaling $1,215,000 monthly but we don’t know what the profit margin on this would be so we are still some in the dark.
MS is probably leery to divulge the profit margin while in negotiations with more customers. If the margin is high the customer can use that to their advantage to push for a lower price. If it were low then there wouldn’t be much reason not to release it so maybe it is a good sign he doesn’t tell us – though eventually in the financials it can be extracted.
And don't forget that it says in the release that the average farm will use 20,000 liters, and they have 900,000 liters in orders already which means ECOS has sold to approximately 45 farms so far. It says there are about 3,000 farms in Korea so we have 2,955 farms to go, plus the rest of the world. Lot of potential here. If the financing comes through we are golden!!!!!!
I hope people are not getting to excited about the 10k release. Longs and others that have been following this stock for a while know we are really not expecting anything real substantial in last year’s financials. There shouldn’t be any revenue from the Korea deal nor probably even any mention of it because that was not announced until February of this year.
If you look at the PR’s and 8k’s from the second half of 2012, most everything did not have a contract for revenue producing sales. Almost everything was only testing M-Fuel in Detroit, M-Fuel samples to Great Britain and Ireland and testing with the Austrian energy commodity. Ukraine was still in the talking phase. If any of these signed a contract to purchase a NPU or M-Fuel I would think ECOS would of done a PR and 8k, which is their pattern as they did in February with the Korean deal.
In a release on 10/26/13, ECOS released this vague statement, “In the last few months we have booked orders and are in the process of sourcing the components to complete these orders, our first production NPUs and we expect to ship in January after thorough testing." Maybe the 10k will elaborate on this some more – I don’t know. But it says delivery in Jan 2013, which means the 10k for 2012, might not show revenue.
There maybe a few other things that might give us a hint that we are moving in the right direction but I don’t believe there is going to be anything real substantial that will live up to the hype that seems to be growing. And if this 10k is not “sexy” enough for the newcomers they will run for the hills trying to get out first causing a massive plunge in the share price.
It is a hoped for PR later that will have the more exciting news in it. But Snapped said he sent an email to the company and they responded the 10k would be out Monday. “The news some are expecting won't be till later in the month I was told.” The other avenue for good news will be the 10q due out probably mid May. But before a PR or the 10q we will have the over-hyped 10k which could put the SP way down and lose our momentum. I hope this doesn’t happen, maybe the 10k will have pleasant surprises or investors have done their own DD and not just read this board and have down to earth reasonable expectations for the 10k.
There appears to have been no dumping shares at the end of the day as has been the pattern. This is good.
It feels like Ground Hog day around here!!! Everyday the same pattern of trading. At least we seem to have support around the .0015 area. Not dropping too bad with all the added shares. April 15th cannot get here quick enough.
I agree with what most board members have been speculating as to the cause of no major price move. Though I wish the PR was less confusing in the paragraph describing the revenue:
“The Chicken Producers Association is disseminating the results of this test to all its 3,000 members. ECOS has already received over $350,000 in monthly orders (5 farms) just from the Anseong area where the tests were held. We are receiving new orders daily as the members of the association are becoming aware of the test results. ECOS is ramping up production to handle the 40 Anseong farms by September (12,000,000 liters/month).”
At first ECOS says they received over $350,000 in monthly orders from 5 farms and then with no explanation says in the next sentence they will ramp up production to handle the 40 farms. Where did the other 35 farms come from? Are they anticipating getting those sales from the Anseong area.
Also, $350,000 in monthly orders seems a pretty high cost to heat your chicken coops. That would be $70,000 a month per farm. Seems high to me but all I know about chickens is I like to eat them. But no matter what is correct they have 3,000 members in the Association so they still have anywhere between 2,995 or 2,960 more possible sales to make. Start multiplying the revenue numbers by this amount of possible sales and it gets astronomical.
And finally, don’t forget there are still several more known irons in the fire and as I think Flawless or Surfguy or both have said about how ECOS can throw things out of left field at anytime. And heating chicken coops in Korea for this kind of money is as out of left field as you can get. This M-fuel has so much potential.
I am fairly certain .20 cents per gallon of additive is not correct. That would be a pretty pathetic return. I heard the cost per gallon of additive priced between $12 to $16 dollars. Twenty cents per gallon would be around 1.5% profit. I had heard somewhere on this board that the profit margin could be as high as 70% (I am sorry, I cannot find where I read or heard it, but it wasn’t directly from ECOS or MS – maybe relayed to someone from MS.) If the .20 cents was per gallon of finished product that would put it in the 70% range. Let’s hope this is the case or at least maybe it was 20% of the additive which would still be nice.
One way or another it will come out in the financials and we can decipher it from there in due time. Hopefully, with revenue coming in it will be the end of anymore toxic financing deals.
This is fun watching this from Thailand where I am vacationing at my wife’s home. Hopefully, later this year I will be vacationing in Las Vegas on ECOS.
I guess nobody is impressed by the news out of India on Oral-lyn completing the India Phase 3 and being submitted for approval there. I always believed the Oral-lyn was the greater potential for this stock. The cancer drug has such a small population of potential patients where as diabetes drugs have a huge market, growing everyday. And with an insulin spray people will be taken it several times a day (a maintenance drug) over the cancer drug, which seems more limited.
Part of the reason I brought into Generex was I have first hand knowledge of what diabetes does to a person and I know diabetics hate the insulin shots. If you can come up with a viable alternative, I believe sales could be astronomical.
So hopefully this is another step in the right direction.
Just one possible positive reason for no news is maybe they are in another standstill agreement with someone as they were earlier in the year with FEI.
As for trading, I use Scottrade for pennies. They allow any share price to be brought and sold.
I am long for 1.6 million.
I am a bit confused by the negative reaction to the Monar PR. Especially, in light of Flawless's additional information. Having a former director from ECOS involved does give it some potential. Either way I don't see how ECOS is out anything with this agreement. If Monar can come up with the money then they order a NPU, if not then nothing gained nothing lost. And if they set up this production facility they would need to continue buying the additive plus any sales they secure would be great for ECOS.
Some people (myself included) might of been disappointed that this wasn't the big news we are waiting for but this doesn't supplant the other stuff we are waiting for. The Ukraine and the other testing is all still out there. So nothing changed with ECOS from before this PR yet some people sold out at below a penny.
I just contacted Scottrade and the broker said he sees no trading halt on ECOS. He also checked with the trading desk and they too said they don't see anything that would prevent me from trading. He did confirm the last trade was awhile ago. I don't want to buy or sell right now so I didn't try. I called at 2:35 pm EST.
Also, an update to this contained in the 11/06/12 PR would be nice:
"Jeung Kwak, EcoloCap Chairman will be meeting Ukrainian officials in Korea at the end of November to finalize projects that will utilize ECOS technologies."
I would just like to chime in and say I really like this board. I brought my first shares of ECOS in Oct 2010 and have been following it ever since. I am sure many of you also own or follow other penny stocks and some of those boards are horrible. ECOS tends to stay quiet when nothing is going on and when something comes up there are good comments, interactions and sharing of DD.
You don't see many like uhmmmmmm that claimed to have done a little (very little) DD and now pronounce it a SCAM - take that crap elsewhere. If you think you found something go ahead and throw it out here for all to examine, that is one purpose of the board, but don't arrogantly determine this is a scam on your one shred of DD.
I also like this statement concerning testing a 14 kW generator for a major investment and management group;
"This should show a 22%+ reduction in diesel consumption,which is well over the minimum requirement of this prospective financing and distribution source."
They said "FINANCING" source. That could prove usefull.
If anyone is looking to buy some Kmag at .004, I have a active sell order been sitting for almost a week for 261,100 shares in my Scottrade account. Go get em'.
That is what is strange about the Grey's, Kmag has closed higher on many days and yet my sell order never got touched. Some people paying .005 or up to .0055 while I sit at .004 trying to free up some desperately needed money.
M-Fuel is also mentioned in the newest PR at the end of the fourth paragraph: "EcoloCap has been asked to make proposals for 4 installations in the Ukraine that include municipal waste to heat used tires to gas and diesel to M-Fuel". The diesel to M-Fuel are the NPU's.
And for financing they refer to Ukrain projects which would include M-Fuel I assume: "EcoloCap is presently looking for a factory location in the US and is in discussions with the EXIM Bank to finance the Ukrainian projects". If we can get financing this could be real good.
Surfguy, You are correct about the 87 million shares out there that could be dumped by Capex and Asher. That's a problem potentially. But there is a silver lining in that they haven't sold yet so something good must be coming.
Honey Badger, I spoke with a broker at Scottrade that I use and he didn't see anything about the "DTC Chill" and said he sees no restrictions at all on trading ECOS. Maybe the issue is a mistake between the DTC and Ameritrade and doesn't involve ECOS.
Just a possibility; maybe this is a second trip. He might of gone there back in April / May 2012. Hopefully, Mr. Seigel will respond to Flawless's inquiry.
The potential here is huge. For new potential investors, I posted this earlier:
"If you remember the radio interview the CEO of ECOS (Michael Siegel) did on 4 April 12 (link attached) he talked about the huge number of potential customers. At one point he said one country alone would require over 800 NPUs. I wonder if that country is the Ukraine?
They would probably be very desperate to reduce oil consumption because being a part of the old Soviet Union they most likely get most their oil from Russia now. And Russia can be a very tough and unreliable energy supplier. So they maybe motivated even beyond the economic and environmental advantages of M-Fuel just to reduce their dependence on others for oil.
Here is a link to the radio interview:
http://thestockradio.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/02/ECOS.mp3
You go to "Categories" and then "Technology" on the lower right hand side of the page you will find the interview. If I remember correctly he talked about this later in the interview but it is worth listening to the whole thing if you hadn't heard it before."
Airing the DNC may sound like good news but going down the political path can lose half your existing or potential customers. If you are going to do anything political it must be completely balanced. In the case of televising the DNC, did they televise the RNC? No matter what side of an issue you are on, this country is divided about 50/50 so you might offend half of your customers by doing anything political. In the case of showing the DNC any Republican might think why wasn’t my point of view shown (do they think it is inferior) and you lose customers.
If your plan is to only go after the Democratic customers, well good luck with that. You are following down the path of Current TV and OWN channel both of which are going under.
Stick to entertainment.
If you remember the radio interview the CEO of ECOS (Michael Siegel) did on 4 April 12 (link attached) he talked about the huge number of potential customers. At one point he said one country alone would require over 800 NPUs. I wonder if that country is the Ukraine?
They would probably be very desperate to reduce oil consumption because being a part of the old Soviet Union they most likely get most their oil from Russia now. And Russia can be a very tough and unreliable energy supplier. So they maybe motivated even beyond the economic and enviromental advantages of M-Fuel just to reduce their dependence on others for oil.
Here is a link to the radio interview:
http://thestockradio.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/02/ECOS.mp3
You go to "Categories" and then "Technology" on the lower right hand side of the page you will find the interview. If I remember correctly he talked about this later in the interview but it is worth listening to the whole thing if you hadn't heard it before.
Actually, Robertshao the share price of $1.62 for Score Media is irrelevant without considering the shares outstanding. The more important number to compare is the market cap. Which is $167 million and for ICPA is 5.91 million. ICPA's value is 1/28th of Score Medias which would put ICPA's share price at 28 times what it is now - or $.28 cents if these two were equal.
This is only useful if we are comparing apples to apples though. I think ICPA has more going for it then Score Media except it hasn't been establish yet for any lenght of time but ICPA's potential is through the roof.
This share price estimate was only based on the FEI deal just announced and only the re-occurring additive revenue. Does not include the GFE one which came out a month ago and with that one probably doubles it. And I do recall something about carbon credits now that you mentioned it so there maybe even more revenue there along with the profit from actually producing the machines. So yeah, maybe .20 or more a share is reasonable for everything we got secured right now.
The 36 units in Chile I think was what that deal could grow into and I am hoping any day we could get a PR dropped out of nowhere on that. FEI was involved in the test unit being set up there and now that they are in the game with real purchases it seems more likely.
If you take these revenue numbers further you can start with $2.88 million a year for this deal and assuming a 40% margin (which may actually be low by some reports for the additive) you get $1.152 million earnings per year. Apply a PE of 15 to that and you get a company value of $17.280 million. Divide that by the outstanding shares of 284.010 million shares and you get a share price of .06 cents.
Remember this calculation is very conservative. Based on only additive sales no revenue from the sale of the equipment. Based on 50% capacity with a 40% margin, which could be as high as 70% by some accounts. The PE rate used could be higher. And this is only this ONE deal. Add in the GFE deal and that could double it right there.
Rino, 100 million in revenue was probably based on 100 units being sold. Could of just been an example of the potential as we sell more units. 100 units would also give you a stock price of way over .89 cents as you mentioned you heard somewhere.
As we know each NPU60 unit can produce $4500 a day at full capicity which is 1.6 million per year. This deal states:
"Each NPU-60 has a production capacity of 60 metric tons of M-Fuel/day (18,000 gallons) and each of these NPUs consumes $4500 a day of additive when in full production. At half capacity, or 12 hours/day EcoloCap can expect a minimum of 24 containers of additive per year in additional sales for this order."
So we are looking at 50% capacity here. In the 8k they break it down at 2.3 million for the units and then an extra 240k for 8 containers of additive. Based on that price then 24 containers per year for one unit is $720k and for the 4 it will be 2.88 million per year for this deal.
I don't know about the difference in pricing. The GFE deal states 850k purchase price and as you point out this deal is for 550k and 600k. Maybe they are paying upfront and that is why they are getting the discount. I don't know about going forward what the price will be.
Surfguy, your statement "right now there's just a small base of investors supporting the stock" could be dead on correct. While ihub is far from the whole investing community you only see a handful of different posters on here. But I am convinced this stock has incredible potential and I think now, sooner rather than later we are going to get rewarded.
It is possible we won't see the big move until ECOS reports some revenues. Maybe 4th QTR should show some. But hopefully there will be more sales before that and at some point this will explode. The revenue from the sale of a NPU is nice but the re-occurring revenue of the additive is going to be huge.
I agree with you Surfguy, I don't really know why we are stuck at .02's. Nothing changed with the company since the GFE sale announcement - Except this very positive news of another sale with now another distributor. Why would someone be more skeptical now? There was nothing that was going to happen until later this year with GFE and Costa Rico, probably not until they shipped the first unit so I don't see that ECOS did anything or failed to do anything to create any different view of the company. It is perplexing.
It is true that the testing in Chile was on a NPU-10 and here we are scaling up to a NPU-60 but the M-Fuel output is the same. The test showed the engine could run on the fuel with no modifications and it achieved the desired output of fuel savings and emission reductions as promised. It also, showed the engine ran cooler and more efficiently. They opened the engine up prior to testing and took pictures and then after 30 days of running M-Fuel they opened it up again and found it had actually helped clean the engine and most importantly no damage to the engine. This is what is most important to a customer.
On FEI's website their preferred business model is to retain ownership of the NPU's and just sell the M-Fuel to the customer. This way they will install, maintain the unit and provide the additive. Then charge the customer a set amount per gallon to cover their costs and the additive along with profit. So the most important thing to the customer is the quality of the fuel and how it affects their engine. I am sure there will be some tweaking to be done with a larger unit but we are beyond waiting for test results.
The reason I am pointing this out is I believe we are moving from a company in a developmental stage to a production stage. This is no longer just a company with an idea in development being tested and waiting to see if it is for real. We are now there.
It doesn't mention anything about testing with the two units being deployed to the Republic of Georgia and Afghanistan. I would assume they are going right into service. FEI already has experience installing and testing the one in Chile. Maybe that data and documentation is sufficient now for new customers.
I felt all along that FEI was still in play. I believe this is just the beginning for FEI orders. This is the beginning to very big things IMO. Two of the units are for demonstration purposes
"The first two units are to be delivered in approximately 90 to 120 days to the Republic of Georgia and Afghanistan; the other two units are to be delivered to FEI in the United States for demonstration purposes and the direct sale of M-Fuel."
They would not be spending that much on two of the four units that won't be revenue producing units unless they have big plans in the pipeline.
You were expecting an almost 19% increase in revenue from one month to the next? July revenue $1,310,458 versus June's $1,105,480.
Revenue in July of 1,310,458 is almost 19% up from June. At 19% increase per month in revenue this stock has a long way to go.
You know these interviews with successful people on Common Denominator would be the kind of content that would fit perfectly on loops at airports.