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Nope, I bought those and wanted more at that price, but couldn't get them.
Oops, I was just answering from the mailbox so I didn't see the posts.
You also could be right. I just don't know. Perhaps someone else on the board can answer your question about failed financing in the past. You'd think Ponzi or someone else that generally keeps up with the bad news could enlighten us.
Sorry, I have no info on that.
I am sorry Dad, I don't understand your question. I am not aware of anyone backing out on a finance agreement.
Yes, I agree and that's why I am holding my small position. Clayton said they needed the field test results to have a good presentation to capital markets, but that they now have what they need and he was optimistic about securing a funding deal within a month. I am skeptical enough to think finding a good enough deal could take a little longer. He indicated he was looking for about 2.4 mil. I don't have my notes from the meeting at home, but believe he said he wanted 1.4 of that in debt rather than equity. -No telling what his first offer was going to look like, but it was supposed to be on his desk this week.
Dad, I can only offer a personal impression. They certainly didn't hand out spec sheets with test results. I would say if they can't find funding the viability of the company is obviously at risk, As mentioned before, I was impressed with the candid way they answered questions and didn't walk away suspecting I had been lied to. To me the business plan on water is compelling, but the ORU business seems effectively dormant for the reasons previously posted. I still think it has huge potential and either water or ORU could be a large and profitable business in their own right... But they haven't done it yet and they need capital or they never will.
You are welcome. I have appreciated the due diligence provided by many posters at Ihub on different boards and just wanted to return the favor for those unable to attend. Like the information or not, at least it was some additional detail on what Freestone is doing (and not doing).
Not that it matters much since that location is apparently a dead deal, but the implication in the Q&A was that they intended to take oil sludge by barge and then ship the finished product by railcar... So no mention was made of a production well at that sight, nor would one be necessary For It to have been a viable business plan.
Not intending to comment on your other points, but Clayton mentioned that Hydrex verified the wetlands issue was not a problem at the state level. They were apparently surprised when the federal government stepped in.
Check the contract. It should be available online. I believe I recall it expires in July if Hydrex doesn't start building a unit.
Ponzi, those things acknowledged, I would not have expected them to hand out a pro forma or conduct the shareholders meeting at the testing site so we could see the water unit working. Investing in an emerging technology company is highly speculative. Many investors would wait until there is actual proof of revenue before investing. Doing so is certainly less risky but it comes at a much higher price.
Again, I think a valid frustration, Dad. While the Hydrex agreement (including all territory and term details) is public and the water test is public. The responses about Hydrex problems on the deal and the near term emphasis Freestone is therefore placing on water was only clear by interpretation. That is why, although I agree with SteadyT's assessment that there was no substantive new news presented, I thought the meeting was very interesting and I appreciated the open manner in which it was conducted. I don't have a large position in this stock, but what I have I'll sit on for a while.
Again, frustration acknowledged, but my impression from the meeting was that they were very open and offered some detail about any questions asked. There was nothing in the meeting to conclude that we should be expecting news "next week". Next month, perhaps but as SteadyT mentioned, they are trying to arrange funding without giving away the store which VC's have a tendency to demand. They did, however seem confident that the results from the field tests gave them what they would need to be successful in arranging funding. It was clear that they maintain that they do have viable working unit that exceeded spec requirements for removing solids from a spectrum of geological formations and that they are able to recycle both production water and frac water at what Jimmy (informal conversation after the meeting) characterized as very inexpensive. They believe the business model for water will be very profitable.
I'll take this one by one, but not intending to incite conflict. Everyone can think what they want.
"...He said Hydrex ran into problems on the land they were intending to use for the site being designated by the Fed as wetlands.......Clayton said the territory conditions in the contract don't leave Freestone much viable territory to work with outside that contract....." YES
So on the one hand, Hydrex supposedly can't proceeed because 1 (one) site purportedly has 'wetland' issues and but on the other hand, FSNR can't build an ORU because there supposedly is no viable territory outside that contract???? Yes, I believe he said the original site was property Hydrex (or someone related) owned. He didn't speculate why they wouldn't do something at another site, but he did say the contract gave them (Hydrex) territory rights for most of the productive regions and didn't leave them (Freestone) viable places to go on their own or with another partner. It's why they indicated they couldn't do much until/if the contract expired this summer.
In a multi-state / country area there is not a single other site on which Hydrex can build a super-profitable ORU using revolutionary secret technology (verified by an un-named university). And on the rest of the enire planet there is not a location on which FSNR can build an ORU and make gobs of money???? That makes no sense at all. Plus, the ORUs were supposed to be portable. No-one ever said that the ORU had to be constructed permamently on one site. Sarcasm acknowledged, but yes, that's pretty much what he said. There was aslo a question from an investor about going to Canada, but the size of the unit and capitalization required to go to that market seemed out of reach given the scope of operations there. It was clear, however that they are focusing on water as a more immediate revenue source and still maintain the ORU business has a future, but for now they must wait on the Hydrex agreement and on Hydrex to either perform or not. It was implied that they might use revenue from water do do some of their own ORUs.
Sounds like another song and dance to me..... Think what you like. You know what they say about opinions... we've all got one and I'm not trying to talk you out of yours.
I am sure this stock has been a long haul for a lot of folks and there have been a lot of disappointments. My reference to a few months was considering the time since they put a working water unit in the field to test till the hopeful estimate he gave of a month to have a money deal to announce on that project (forward looking statement acknowledged).
I am not trying to talk anyone out of their frustration, just offer more detail about the meeting as a courtesy to those interested. Take it how you like.
You've misunderstood. I didn't say they were waiting for others. They made it very clear they were contacting multiple parties to arrange funding.
A few months to perform production tests on the unit and approach finance markets doesn't seem unreasonable to me. JMO
You can tell from my post about the meeting, but getting financing for an oil sludge unit doesn't appear to be the priority right now due to the Hydrex contract territory restrictions. On the other hand, if you can help them get financing for multiple units that can clean frac water??? Now is the time! Call Freestone and tell them what you think you can do. They seemed to indicate they have data and a working unit to support that kind of financing decision.
Steady T is right. No real new news, just some clarification and detail about things that have already been announced, but there were questions in the meeting about the ORU business. Freestone believes they have to tread water on any action on ORU until the Hydrex contract runs out this summer (or longer if they comply with the contract requirements). The contract terms are public. Clayton said the territory conditions in the contract don't leave Freestone much viable territory to work with outside that contract. He said Hydrex ran into problems on the land they were intending to use for the site being designated by the Fed as wetlands and that the primary contact at Hydrex who was managing the deal for them left the company a few months after the contract was done. He said he still hoped that Hydrex would build a unit, but also acknowledged their difficulties in doing so. It sounded to me like the original plan from Hydrex would have been ideal with barge and railcar access and they had State approval on the wetlands issue, but after the contract the Fed declared it wetlands and it rendered the site unusable.
They see the more immediate return coming from frac water rather than ORU, although they acknowledged the possibility of building their own ORU sites in the future. In Q&A they estimated the construction cost of a 350 gal per minute water unit ($350-400k range)to be about half the cost of an ORU unit capable of doing tank oil sludge and the time to construct a unit also much quicker (est 4-8 weeks to produce a water unit). He maintained that the field testing from a broad sample of sources (water from different formations) gave them the information they felt they needed to start chasing capital. Regulatory trends are emphasizing the tracking of frac water and the use of recycled water in the fracing process. He gave the local municipality of Denton as an example of growing water control regulations in the area. They expect saving the producer the cost of both production water and frac water disposal combined with the resale of recylced water for fracking to be a very viable business model.
On financing he expected to have the first proposal on his desk in a week, but had no idea if what they wanted for the capital would be excessive. He said they had in mind what they wanted and what they were willing to give up and how they would like to see the funding structured in a mix of debt and equity- no idea yet what would be required in the end. He said they were visiting with multiple sources and his hope would be to have more than one option to choose from.
FYI since I don't post much, I am just an investor and had never met anyone from Freestone before the meeting. I appreciated meeting them and was impressed with Clayton (who ran the meeting). Like SteadyT mentioned, I am "under water" on my small position on this stock and am not selling, but not buying. If they are able to secure the funding, the picture would change.
"What he said was the order was 500K"
Fun with math?? That shipment to date is about $53,000 at $100 per barrel. The whole 500K litre order is about $314,000 at that same rate.
That was just one customer. Things are looking up.
Snow, I don't think we have verification of either. That is why I've asked.
IMO, it is reasonable to have some routine down time in everyone's financial estimates, but we don't know how much. There certainly seem to have been interruptions in the past to keep #1 from running 24/7. Likewise, we know 2-6 were announced as an objective(and everyone seems to think we have now seen a really nice picture of a completed #2 and I agree) but we really don't know status of completion on any of it. I share the assumption that this CC will disclose at least news about #2 and hopefully #3. It also might be possible that the logistics of getting twice the rate of plastic in the processors may have caused #3 to go into the new building, although that was announced to be a fabrication facility. Personally, I hope they don't try and do all fabrication in-house due to the delays that could cause. Even if they had to pay 50% more per unit to have them built elsewhere, in light of the revenue per processor, I think the delay would be far more costly than the increase in expense. All of that, though is just speculation and opinion. I am just a shareholder with questions like everyone else.
4k, I don't know if you have a limit on the questions to submit, but here are mine.
What kind of downtime is reasonable to expect for operating each processor?
What is the approximate date of completion of processors #2 & #3?
What is the status of and expected completion date of the first RKT processor? ...And then #5 & #6 that have been announced for that site?
Have there been delays in fabrication relationships that have delayed development?
Does the construction of a fabrication facility mean that most/all fabrication will be done in-house?
What is a reasonable time to expect for future fabrication and installation of each processor?
Brig, The pic looks great, but why would you say it looks like it is running? (regardless, it sure beats wondering if the pictures others have taken of tanks in the yard were #2 in pieces on the ground)
soulaw, here's the link to the seminar Powerpoint
http://www.gflawma.com/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderfiles/jbi.pdf
OK, someone has to mention that there is an elephant in the room. Huge volume, big increase in SP, VERY low volume of IHub comments and the news about the NYDEC Permit... silent. -Kind of seems strange to me. Could someone comment if that means the current processor(s) are shut off tomorrow or if that means it/they continue to operate at current operating levels?
Now this one looks pretty unbiased. It mentions the Wells and SEC, but also the technology and sale contracts... and ultimately comes out long.
Thanks Miller, I just saw it on a Yahoo Finance link and was going to post but you beat me to it.
http://seekingalpha.com/article/327332-john-bordynuik-s-plastic2oil-a-long-and-winding-road?source=yahoo
How about just 1 processor?
Right now I'd settle for news on 2 running consistently and getting financially in the "black".
Actually, I believe the PR said "hundreds" of processors, but I've wondered if the number got cut in half by the increase in process rate tested by the DEC.... all the volume at nearly half the capitalization cost - not a bad gig if you can pull it off.
"RockTenn has the industrial relationship and feedstock to support hundreds of Plastic2Oil(TM) processors."
http://www.plastic2oil.com/site/news-releases-master/2011/08/08/jbi-inc-announces-a-ten-year-agreement-for-commercially-viable-conversion-of-waste-plastic-to-fuel
4 kids, I am guessing that he was referring to Knight being in the customer list and is looking for a comment on that?
Zard, we are in pretty close agreement on the condition of the company as it relates to where they are in executing their business plan. I am simply trying to get a read on what some of the potential effects could be of the SEC litigation. This is my first rodeo in a stock being sued by the SEC.
Furthering your comments, if processors one and two are running "flat out" the company would likely be in the black. If you assume that pending finance deals were ruined by the litigation, organic funding on the revenue from processor number three could be the start of some pretty aggressive internal growth (3 new processors every other month out of each new processor that starts producing?). In my mind, the question is how quickly they can get number one and two running "flat out" and be in the black. Will it happen before their burn rate buries them? I am betting so, but we don't really know the status of any outstanding funding agreements or how another pipe would go.
Great explanation, thanks. Then would it be reasonable to expect that if they didn't chill it yesterday when there was such massive volume that they probably won't do it at all?
Would someone mind please clarifying what a chill is?
Santa, you keep posting all those nasty FACTS. ...kinda rough keeping JBI as a legitimate scam when you do that stuff. Careful, you might ruffle some of the detractors. We wouldn't want that now would we?
Oh yea, well I will take that unsigned agreement marked up 300% and the processor that wont scale up outside the lab and the non-existent buyers of P2O fuel and add all the fuel they are buying and hiding to blend with a little bit of their "plastic fuel" so they can sell something "legit" to those non-existent buyers!
And why would JB give up billions for millions to get out. It is totally speculation, but I just don't see why he would sell. The profit margin is too strong to think about selling. By the time the deal would be worth selling it will have so much internal growth potential he'd be crazy to jump off the train.
OK, you are right. The split won't hit the fan for a while... a year and 6 months rather than just 6 months, but with the processors "tweked" and ready to scream, RKT waiting for processors, the "nut" covered and in the black next quarter with 1,2&3 spitting out juice, 4,5&6 finishing construction and a buyer for fuel over a big percentage of the US... well the only missing piece is capital for installing processors. With projected ROI within a few months of each processor operating and (wish we had more details admittedly) a buyer for the fuel I don't think it will be hard to finance very aggressive expansion and that funding is the only big piece I see to hold them back. I'd wager (and have) that the funding won't be a problem as soon as they can show proof of the revenue combined with a contract for the sale. No more PIPES, no more dilution. Your $100 is around the corner, but we can almost see it from here. JMO
Don't be surprised if one of the next PR's relates to finance agreements to manufacture more processors using the Indigo revenue stream as collateral. The pieces are all coming together.
Give it six months and the split is going to hit the fan!
I don't post much, but agree completely. My thoughts and prayers are with you.