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Question for PDiddyGood --
Seriously -- what do u think is the outcome here for:
Investors
Ribotsky
Dworkin
Envision
Kravitz
Yellin
NIR inside Council
Gelmons
I'm serious -- think that u are the most credible on the Board.
What's your thoughts on "what and when" for each of the above on an individual basis.
Thanks
All he had ta do is convince investors that the companies were in great shape. That's were the fiduciary responsibility comes in. Therein lies the con
Isn't this Securities Fraud ????
What's the problem ??
Even his own guy said that "he told me so"
I think that the Investors were more naive or lazy or in awe or in "nahhh, not him" mode. Not necessarily duped here --- more like taken.
Good question. Although -- truth is, the jig is up once the Companies are all used and abused. Combine that with a bad economy and redemptions .. sprinkle a little Madoff etc .. in there ... and you get toast. Ain't no hedge that exists for this scenario. He could've steered the ship a little differently and instead of pounding the crap out of the funded companies .. if done in a less reckless manner, perhaps a storm "may" have been weathered. But nooooooo ... the big guy had to have it. What a psycho !! and right in his own back yard to boot. Delusional, insecure, ego maniac at its best. The boy got in too deep, got accustomed to a really high life style, needed to show it off constantly. And BAM!!.. will go down as one of the biggest @#@*% out there that couldn't help himself. Heads will roll, more of a sideshow though. Yabba dabbba dooooooo.
Face it guys ... the investment strategy and the manager never had any real longevity to it. It was just a matter of time.
They ALL trade at that price.
They ALL have that market cap
They ALL basically have no assets
They ALL are SHOT.
The structure of the loans were all legal.
Certain people got greedy.
What's the outcome gonna be ?????
Sorry for your loss Firsk. No doubt that we've all experienced the results of making bad investments. Investing in NIR is unfortunately no different. Just sucks that he lived so high on the hog at ultimately what became investors expense. This just took a little longer to unfold. The fact that he felt the need to flaunt it is a sign of how delusional he was. NIR's strategy was a joke --
How in the world can an investment strategy that claimed to help "companies get to the next level" basically drive shareholder value to zero ON EVERY COMPANY NIR TOUCHED.
I would look up the meaning of Securities Fraud and see if that might help. Otherwise, I don't think that there's anything else here.
And if Securities Fraud fits the bill, then why would this take so loooong ??
If DD got caught with his hand in the cookie jar -- then why and how would he be accused of and plead guilty to SF ??
Perhaps that's the only angle here to get HIM. All other attempts have been a complete and utter failure.
Stick to the knitting ......
The Valuators should be accountable.
The crappy companies that he was financing were all going bust.
He actually believed that he was THAT SMART to be able to Fund companies and not lose .. all the while these companies couldn't get funded anywhere else. Why would these financings be called "death spirals" and "toxic" and be able to hold any value ??
Investors should be accountable. Have any investors in the Fund ever looked at a list of Holdings and saw where they traded ??
They were all absolute crap. How could one expect any long term value to be built by loaning money to these crappy companies.
He should have accountability too .... still hasn't been proven though.
Sure is taking a looong time.
Amazing how so many around him are so screwed and he's still unscathed. Wonder why .....
The stocks may have been worthless for years, problem is that NIR doesn't own any shares of the Companies .... the Secured Notes that NIR issued to these pathetic Companies have been carried at Face Value. My question is that: if there are no Auditors (is this really true ???) then who priced these Notes ?? It couldn't possibly be Corey himself.
PD knows the deal. -- Whistle blower (DD) is what keeps him up at night.
The money has gotta be GONE. Where else could it be ??
These stocks have been close to or on their way to zero for years (a la death spiral) not 2 months. He just ran out of new Companies to loan money to and could no longer keep it going without new victims/companies that he hadn't trashed yet.
No Auditor ??? wow !!
Microcap companies are defined as - less than $250mill mkt cap.
He preyed and provided money of last resort to $50 mill mkt caps.
Which ultimately became $1 - 5 mill mkt caps after he got done with them.
"And in his letters, without naming the companies (he never named them) he would talk about their growing businesses, their shining prospects, etc. It was quite a snowjob."
Now you're getting somewhere ...
I agree PD.
Whistle blowers and DOJ is what keeps him up at night -- all the other noise is kids stuff.
Yeah ... lying to his Investors is what I think this comes down to. Which is Securities Fraud.
All the other stuff ... probably "a nothing" for him.
Forget the Shorting argument. None of his stocks were marginable and therefore couldnt be borrowed to be shorted. This whole part comes down to whether or not he sold upon submitting Conversion requests or needed to wait until the actual Shares were issued to him. And I'm not really sure how that works ..
Hard to believe that Barry Bonds was mistrialed on the 3 steroids charges, that OJ was innocent of murder etc ...
Securities Fraud IMO is where this whole thing "lies" as far as HE goes.
Sure is taking a looong time though.
The thing is --- that Corey doesn't issue the valuations. There's gotta be an Auditor/Fund Evaluator etc .. I don't have much expertise in this part of it, but to say that the Fund Manager issues valuations doesn't seem right to me.
Regardless of how the Liquidation goes -- I don't see no matter how cagey or coy you are about it ..... you're basically peddling crap.
I think that you really need to understand that the Funds strategy was to finance weak companies. And that's what NIR did. Nothing illegal about it .. but sure enough, he was providing survival money and then proceeded to pound the stocks down to close to zero. Very very shortsighted in my opinion.
The results were so predictable. How could any money be left if all the portfolio companies are trading at basically zero?
I'm still not so sure that he did anything criminally wrong.
Are you? If so, what?
What outcome are you expecting/looking for?
Were you aware of the Holdings in the Fund at any time?
When I suggest that the Fund is worthless and all the money is gone. I don't mean it literally. $100k is a far far cry from the previously sized investments back in the NIR Party days.
I thought that a Fund is worth what the collective Holdings of the Fund are. If you add up all the Notes that are outstanding -- that number is probably a decent one. BUT -- if you try to Monetize those Notes -- it ain't so pretty. Otherwise, the Fund holds no Shares in the Companies that NIR invested in. And the Converting into additional shares has dried up as did the price per share of the Companies. I just don't see any meaningful money left.
NIR loaned money to weak Companies and those Companies got weaker and the Conversion into Shares weakened and yadda yadda yadda ..
Can some of the guys on this Board share their feelings as to how much real money/value they believe is there? I'd be curious to hear it.
My feeling is that it ain't much and the only gratification that an Investor can hope to get is that HE goes away. But I'm not even sure about that. It should be interesting.
Money -- pretty much gone
DD -- hand in the cookie jar (pure stupidity) -- plead guilty
Others -- accomplices -- (more stupidity)
Corey -- prays that DD's guilty plea on Securities Fraud doesn't land in his lap.
Otherwise -- it's unclear if he did anything criminally wrong.
Ughhh. You make no sense.
What Corey did with his money is his business.
What he did to his Investors money was lose it within the Fund's bad investment strategy.
What he did to the Companies that he loaned money to .. was CRUSH them. To the point of Zippo.
If Investors are looking for any Money -- fuggetaboutit.
If Investors are looking for CR to be jailed -- probably hinges on DD trying to take him down in order to save his own butt some time.
Otherwise ... a lot of guys on the periphery that thought they deserved more and committed crimes in order to get more .. these are the guilty ones.
I thought this board was pretty good up until now.
Not all of the companies will accomodate with continuous reverse splits. Most of the companies are probably defunct. Or fed up with the Plan of reversing .. with no real shot. Are you suggesting that the Fund actually has value left ?? Go through the many holdings that are on this board and hit up the symbols or better yet ... check the EDGAR filings. My guess is that they are, for the most part .. GONE.
Isn't a ponzi scheme when you take in new investors money to pay old investors out??
Problem is -- nobodys getting any money out. Just Cory. I'm not sure thats a ponzi scheme ... more like a well that went dry.
The Fund is zippo.
The strategy employed was a time bomb.
He didn't need to cheat .. he already held the trump card in the deal docs.
Whoever got greedy along the way ... and committed crimes .. we'll see.
If a stock trades at .0005 -- which it seems apparent that most NIR funded companies end up there. Then it would take 1 billion shares to get $500,000 (1 bill x .0005 = $500,000) and thats assuming that NIR is all the volume on the Billion. Then NIR only gets half of that (assuming that their getting 50% of those proceeds)
Do you realize how long it takes to recoup any real money at that rate?
Now consider that these companies at some point stop the conversions or simply run out of authorized shares.
No assets, no currency, weak to start with .. GAME OVER. Just a matter of time.
Suffice to say -- there ain't no money left.
So if this Board is about who's goin' to jail and for how long .. the real answer is we dont know. So far DD is toast and maybe some guys in cahoots with him. But as far as the Big guy goes .. lots of layers between him and a crime. I realize theres a lot of moving parts .. but my opinion is that the longer this takes, the more trouble they're having charging him .. the better it is for him. If this board can connect a lot of the dots, and basically has provided a roadmap .. Why is this taking so long?
Again, if there are 100 or so portfolio companies and they all trade at basically zero and there are no assets of significance left in these companies ... what could possibly be left? Maybe the Face Value of the NIR notes are worth $780 mill, but in a liquidation ... seems like closer to maybe 1/10th of that. So around 10 cents on the dollar is my guess.
Seems like making an Investment in a Fund with a strategy to secure all the assets of a weak company and then dilute the crap out of it and have close to zero value in the price per share is a BAD investment.
If any investor went in with eyes wide open and saw that every Company that NIR financed went to zero ... then how could you expect there to be anything left ??
Question becomes, is the strategy legal? I suppose so.
Is there a flaw in the Auditors/Fund Valuators system?
On the surface, not sure if HE is guilty of anything.
All the other shenanigans .... we'll see.
Just curious
Lets say that NIR has approximately 100 or so portfolio companies, and they are all for the most part trading at less than .01/share, with sub $1mill market caps and a lot probably have no bids at this point. And there are very few of those companies with any more authorized shares and probably have no real assets for NIR to take from them ..
In the case of a liquidation:
How many actual dollars can be expected to be recovered for the investors?
Where is the money coming from for:
NIR to keep the lights on?
NIR to pay any salaries?
NIR to pay the lawyers and accountants?
CR to have/receive any management fees?
Can someone explain how much actual dollars are left and what those dollars can actually be used for all while the gate remains up and during a liquidation?
Thanks