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I have an idea why AMD may do this. Perhaps they have an idea as to what the killer chip will be and it may not a be a general purpose cpu like Intc and Amd think of them today. Perhaps they are looking to graft GPU capabilities ontop of their cpus (thru on-board HT) for some smaller devices like multimedia boxes, game consoles, etc.
I see this a a good idea for AMD and ATI. Think about it. As chip plants get outdated and cannot make top of the line CPUS they can be made to manufacture top of the line GPUS instead of having to be modernized or shut down. The extra money can be used for brand new top of the line cpu plants.
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BAD for Nvidia. Maybe Intel will buy them out....
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Perhaps it's the other way around. Maybe Intel had already decided to cut the rebates to large OEMS like Dell because of the lawsuit pressure. That gave Dell less incentive to stick with Intel.
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I have to say that a lot of IT shops still buy Intel just because. Our IT guys are at least aware of the Opteron and the know it's better than Intel's current offerings but they still buy Intel. So, really, Intel is still making a mint in the server market even though they have inferior offerings. That's the leverage Intel has used in the past so that they could support their little mini price wars. Use the income from a segment they make a lot of $$ from so that they can kill AMD's asp in other segments. If NGMA arrives in large numbers and is as good as Intel promises they will be able to do that again. If it arrives later or not in enough volume, AMD will do fine. I think the AMD execs made the decision to fight this battle in the server space and try to win back the desktop later. To me it seems that AMD has always used this strategy. Retreat from the particular battlefield you're losing, regroup and then attack on a different front. They are pretty relentless I must say.
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You're forgetting that what's low volume for intel is pretty good for AMD. Don't forget that AMD cannot make as many chips as Intel. It's better for a smaller producer like AMD to make their product mix as high ASP as possible.
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Thanks, I think I get it. Are 0s and 1s included in the mumbo-jumbo? If yes, I have to let this info sink in for a while.
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What electronic form would the inputs have? Wouldn't they just be on/off states of some transistor device? I am just guessing here I have not been trained in this field I am only following my gut feeling.
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I know nothing about chip design but why is a clock required? Couldn't each functional unit operate as fast as it can and have in and out queues? A work item arrives in the in queue, when it's done it moves to the out queue and the cycle starts all over again. Then, the work item moves to the in queue of the next functional unit.
CZ
Anyone know if the Core Duo can be plugged in the socket of a Centrino 1.86Ghz? It's a gateway laptop.
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Why not?
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Or it will mean that Alienware will go all Intel soon.....
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I've owned integrated video laptops and the 3d graphics are horrible, some 3d programs won't even work properly. I remember seeing a compatibility list for the Intel Integrated Video and a lot of 3d games were not even supported, basically they wouldn't even run. I now own a centrino with an ATI X700 128MB dedicated. Much better 3d and I am sure it will do Vista just fine. All I have to say that if I were planning to run Vista, integrated video laptops would be off my list and since a lot of the intel laptops come like that they are off my list. Of course, if you're knowledgeable and willing to pay a little more you can get Intel laptops with good graphics. Gateway's Core Duos can be had with dedicated ATI video.
CZ
To run the full Vista experience you need dedicated 128MB video card with DirectX9 (or better) support. Integrated graphics won't cut it.
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But, Vista will be both 32b and 64b. It will require at least a very good DirectX9 video card to show off the new UI. Most intel laptops come with crappy Intel Integrated Video which won't show the new Vista UI.
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Are his statements true? Have the intel cash reserves gone down by 25% that quickly? What's up with the overcapacity statements?
CZ
That's what I said a couple of weeks ago, Intel shot itself in the foot by showing so much about Core so soon. Any informed would be buyers are now going to sit this out until Q3 or Q4.
CZ
I don't think the issue is the cpu. It's because the video on laptops sucks so you won't be able to use clearglass or whatever is called when Vista comes out. Also, you can't play any serious games. It's the notebook manufacturer's fault for using the crappy Intel Integrated Video even with high-end laptops.
CZ
I would go for that also, but I have an X2 that was a recent upgrade.
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And you know, the 2.4 Ghz might be the overclocker's wet dream perhaps overclocking up to 3+ Ghz. In this case, even the 2.8Ghz A64 looks silly. Why pay same price when the Intel chip can be overclocked but the 2.8Ghz A64 is already maxed out?
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I thought AMD might go for frequency numbers also but now that I think about it, it will come down to what happened with Nvidia and ATI. Complete confusion for the end user.
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Or a massively scaled down Sempron :)
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My thoughts are that Intel is putting the screws on AMD before they even launch their uber chip. I mean if you were in the market for an FX-60 for $1K today would you wait another 6 months to get similar or better performace for 1/2 the price? Actually I think Intel's move will suppress almost all high end buying for both sides.
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Maybe AMD should switch back to Ghz rating :)
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Very good point. Osbourne effect on all P4s for now?
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I recall late 2002, the sentiment being that AMD was an inch away from going belly up when their price went below $4. That was from being completely uncompetitive with Intel and being a whole process gen behind.
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Wouldn't this allow INTC to increase their ASPS? Or, are they going to try to suppress AMD's ASPS? Short term, it makes sense to do #1. #2 is more long term and it could cripple AMD enough where they won't have the means to develop a K10 but K9 is probably coming out no matter what.
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So, buy INTC leaps? What do you think?
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Conroe looks awesome. Why isn't the stock price jumping then? Any ideas? It looks like a slam dunk for INTC here for from Q4 all the way until K9 comes out. I don't think K8L is going to be anything special....
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Usually, server shops don't change platforms often due to support issues. That kind of loyalty is what kept many shops Intel only. I would think that the reverse will be true. Many shops that switched to Opteron Servers will stick with them until Intel's offering becomes too compelling.
On the DIY front I have to to say that new platforms are ALWAYS more expensive that existing ones. I am not talking about the Cpus but the motherboards themselves. Usually prices come down to earth within a few months of introduction.
Later
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Conroe looks really good. What do yo guys suggest might be a good investing strategy now? Even though Intel might take over the performance crows in q3/q4, how quickly can they supplant the P4 chips with the new ones? I think AMD's revenues now depend on server sales which may have grown past the critical mass where they are self-sustaining especially due to the fact that the platform (socket wise and chipset wise) is not changing. Do the new Intel chips require new motherboards and chipsets? If yes, that locks out the DIY market for a while because initially, the new motherboards may be prohibitively expensive. What do you guys think?
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If Intel truly has something that can run 30+% faster than the fastest AMD cpus of today then that's important. What I'd like to know is that whether or not these 30+% figures are clock for clock or at the max frequency that will be available. If they can beat the Opteron by 30% clock for clock that would be nothing short of amazing.
CZ
AFAIK, cpu capabilities are not interrogated by cpuid because that doesn't tell you the exact capabilities. There are better ways to find out what the cpu has to offer. Besides, the intel rep said there was nothing special in the intel cpu that allowed for the higher stream limit.
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It's very probable. We'll see what comes out of the subpoena. I think AMD will have public opinion on their side but if Intel is innocent of any wrong doing then they will be ok.
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Actually, if intel wrote some optimized libraries that only run that much faster on Intel chips as to allow for 10 streams then Intel could probably license this library to Skype. In their code, Intel could limit the usage of this library to their chips only since those are the chips they optimized for and they cannot guarantee that those optimizations would work on other chips. In that case I would side with Intel.
But, what actually seems to have happened is that they arbitrarily have crippled the software when run on Non Intel chips. Now, we don't have all the info as to why and that's what AMD's subpoena is all about. They are trying to find out why Skype went along with this scheme. It may be as simple as marketing $$$ going their way.
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No, they said we'll give you x amount of $$$ to say that skype runs better on our chips. Better being that you can run twice as many simultaneous clients. I don't see why you're arguing with me. The article is very clear about this. Neither Skype nor Intel claim that there's a technical reason for that claim. It's strictly a marketing gimmick. I don't know how legal or illegal such a ploy is. My WAG is that it is illegal for monopolists to employ such techniques but probably not so for non-monopolists. So, it all depends on how you view Intel. If they have a monopoly it's not ok. If they're a bordeline monopoly then it can go either way. Unfortunately for AMD, given their gains the past 2 years it's hard to argue that Intel still has a monopoly.
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I think you're doing that not me. I believe I reported a summary of the article and a link to it. You're the one defending it without reading it.
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Did you read the article? The intel rep said that there's nothing special in the Intel cpus that would make this "10" client capability possible that is not present in the AMD cpus. It's strictly a marketing arrangement. Skype is just checking the cpuid for "genuine intel".
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I'd like to see how Skype and Intel wiggle their way out of this one. Pretty blatant stuff and it was brought to our attention on this forum when it happened.
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Athlons and A64s get a huge boost from Dual Channel. I know, I own a bunch of them. Realistically though any A64 single or dual is fast enough for almost anything. Even my wife's Mobile Athlon 2500+ with Dual Channel is quite speedy. I also have an X2 which is great for multitasking but for anything else I can't tell the difference. I also have a Pentium M 750 laptop which is also very nice. All these new cpus are great.
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