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well FCEL has no Fuel cell in the field as far as I know that run off hydrogen. they can produce it of course but every one of their fuel cells is natural gas (hardly a green company) or bio gas.
A city is unlikely to select un tested in the field products to provide backup power.
This is however good news as it means the commercial case fro city size microgrids is being acknowledged and the grid operators cooperating. As per my other posts once tested and manufacturing ramped up FCEL will be a significant player in this market but will take c 18 months to get there.
I haven't missed any test results the FCEL SOFC is the most efficient tested (I think Bloom may have just pipped them but still it is known to be very very efficient) and will become vital for them in the nuclear market where DoE is pushing them
I meant tested in the field not the lab.
But they aren't commercial yet - no pictures even all artists renderings of nice clean light blue boxes and 40MW production for this year.
They are shipping MCFC to existing customers mostly in SE Asia and it seems Exxon will require that for CCS , but for energy servers - creating electricity from gas SOFC is the way the market is going now.
They need to move beyond single customers, learn from the success they had years ago with POSCO (and what caused that deal to go south) . Where are repeat TriGeneration deals? Where are follow up Gorton (may be they want to switch to SOFC?) and the real mindbender - where are the deals with Exxon - pre-ordering long lead time elements for a potential deal in Rotterdam is hardly worth 7 years of partnership.
At the moment they are struggling to show evidence of true market acceptance all the time while others are entering their market.
I do see light at the end of the tunnel but for FCEL it is a much longer tunnel than others.
A true partnership with the nuclear industry is IMHO as essential as Exxon and seems to be where the US Govt is nudging them
because a fuel cell for a truck is very different. Inside the case you see are many of the components that a car or truck would have spread round the vehicle. for instance:
hydrogen storage tank and filling valves etc.
cooling system
water capture, storage and evacuation
air purifier
electronics module
oh and a fuel cell
All custom fitted into the right size box to fit relevant models of material handling equipment
PLUG shipping 1,000's of these a year can make them cheaper than anyone else
Their main product is completely untested - Solid oxide that is their future
no one wants MCFC technology any more unless it is an integral part of a solution like the Exxon CCUS system. MCFC has many installations as a n energy server using natural gas or bio gas - hardly many applications proven...
Far fewer applications than PLUG or Ballard but yes may be more than Bloom
where did it say batteries are involved? I saw the video of firemen just keeping water on the veg=hicles - batteries all nice and shiny undamaged while cabs were burned. (And no doubt ensuring the batteries did not combust.
Please do not spread false information. Links please
If it was EMI then why 4 vehicles adjacent to each other but not the others parked in the same row? why not 4 at random?
but REII is marketing to recharge EV's not as a hydrogen fuelling solution (although they can do that that isnt their core product and has more competitors)
Waiting for he deals with rental companies, taxi fleets etc. to provide fast charging at their depots so no need for long turn around times
that's quite an endorsement and hopefully will attract some eyes today.
Meanwhile the suckers in HYSR are still claiming they have a competing product !
Are you referring to the fire at Nikola's headquarters?
there is no indication the batteries were involved at all.
looks like the cabs were set on fire deliberately
Quarterly reports are not audited, but no doubt internally they do involve the auditor at some level to give the board confidence in their quality and to make the annual audit faster .
So long as the finance team is still in place the CFO is responsible for producing the report on time. For annual you get longer time so they can be audited.
Wonder why they can't close any US orders?
the law suit is old news and is only for $12m which they may actually decide to pay, all about the agreement that Frames had before PLug then took over Frames.
BUT the invention was the reason for taking over Frames so surprised the video isn't highlighting this game changer.
we will find out if they have used it in Georgia and real life performance at scale.
I'm liking the price movement at the moment
tested the support from 2 weeks ago (check the 30 minute chart) and did not get over bought on the RSI and still in an upward channel from early MAy.
Not behaving like it used to on these rally fades, we will know more in a few days. Need Georgia to make $10 a thing of the past, I have feeling that isn't going to be until the big ceremony in August though.
they have had a deal for years now so what.
OR are you saying some sort of new deal like a complete take over?
He is a professional consultant in the hydrogen space but is very much near term focussed, not every decision is based on $$ and now but since we cant predict the future with certainty (look at the delays in H2 production plants) has a field day pointing things out (and the market has reflected this over enthusiasm the company presents.
AFAIK he is the only one posting regularly here who has been to a PLUG symposium/analyst day
He interprets the market influence on PLUG better than most so is worth listening to for shorter term trading.
Most of us here are very bullish and see the longer term rewards, especially with prices down here, but we need to recognize there is another view - the current markets view that values us at around $10 because of our failure to deliver against forecasts.
At least we are civil here.
you keep presenting cheaper as being the buying decision. It is only one input, and the gap is closing every quarter. Not suggesting any of these are going to be moving the needle on PLUGs numbers for a year but these may be before class 3 trucks for example assuming infrastructure costs being the same, which is why Amazon and Walmart can explore using hydrogen systems from Gaussin but Target won't.
JB
There is noise pollution as well as air and the running costs of diesel rigs just to move container/trailers around a yard must be expensive along with idling time. (how many gallons of diesel to move one trailer 100 yards?
This looks like it must be close to be economic as the leaders are buying them in reasonable quantity following PLUGs "loaners" to prove the economics.
Not everyone makes buying decisions based on today's numbers which seems to be your case for nothing burgers. Niche markets will open up with every price reduction in either equipment or fuel.
I trust Amazon and Walmart are making valid choices
This is significant news indeed.
If they cant make it commercial then they should give up. Most nano technologies have failed teaming up with others with wider experience will give them a better chance.
so far PLUG is the only known customer of Gaussin Hydrogen powered yard tractors.
Hopefully we loaned them to Amazon and Walmart
would be nice to get confirmation from Gaussin that they are ordering some if not all H2 powered and the fuel cell is from Plug still as they have partnered in Europe with another.
I thought the “hub” was to be around Long Island with wind farms off the coast driving H2 production onshore, storage and pipelines feeding to ports of NY as well as trucking on i95.
Rochester may well supply a lot of equipment (not just PLUG) but I don’t see it being the center of the hub.
It is annoying that Gaussin don’t even specify battery or FCEV versions in their announcements , nor have we had it confirmed that US bound FCEV will be PLUG ProGen engines.
Both Amazon and Walmart buying their yard “tuggers” by the hundred
No, why do you ask?
Ithink you are confusing me with some else if you think I don't know about hydrogen and fuel cells (been moderator. of PLUG board for 10 years at least)
anyway moving on because I am looking for facts about HYSR not PR nonsense
So HYSR can take water and sunlight with a special chemical reaction to produce hydrogen (artificial photosynthesis) . We saw that years ago and more recently with a small square solar cell.
They may have patents about how the integrate with a solar cell for coating.
but show me the working prototype in a size that can be installed and tell me:
a) how much hydrogen per 8 hours sunshine will it produce per panel (and size of panel)
b) how long the special coating will last assuming best case conditions (good water, constant sunshine etc)
even better show me a pilot / demonstration site they talked about years ago...
waiting....
I think I know a lot more than you about hydrogen solutions.
HYSR hasn’t demonstrated a working product yet, let alone anything that will make commercial sense.
How long does the special coating in the solar cell last?
Competitors are installing standalone hydrogen stations already (In Madrid for instance ) with just water and sunshine.
To do that you need partnerships as well as products, who is HYSR partnering with to do anything?
Please give us details about what you see that is anything more than a company doing research (polite word for experiments).
thanks, a big part of FID is to de-risk supplier decisions and PLUG with their systems in the field in many environments now are well ahead of any one else, along with production at scale. They should be able to maintain reasonable margins as they have the proven solutions others have yet to instal.
Question is who do PLUG want to do business with? How do they decide who to supply Electrolysers to?
It sounds like they have already from the other post I responded to.
How about the projects FFI are involved with around the globe, Chile and USA come to mind - what about the work they are doing with Nikola?
will they be using a single source (PLUG) until their own are available?
LOL
HYSR isn't in the business of installing Hydrogen refuelling stations.
It isn't really in much of a business at all as they have no revenues, just raise cash from selling shares.
This is going to set standards across the world.
Had to read the article to understand what "additionality" and "temporal correlation" which sounds like you just have to think it is green (!).
nice find B_B
may explain Andys recent trip to Australia and recent job postings.
I wonder how many months worth of 5GW electrolysers they want.
the statement that you cant get one for 24 months questions whether we should be ramping up Rochester to full 2.5 GW capacity and or building a new factory in US or elsewhere, Europe certainly needs one unless the HYVIA or Acciona JV will make them and sell to others?
Hi WTM
missed this one, I wonder if ZEV are going to join the Tesla compatible crowd? For trucks like this it may be necessary? 80kW charging at a TEsla Super charger my be cheaper than installing high voltage systems at your own depot.
there was another discovery about vibrating the plates (so the bubbles dislodged quicker) using audio waves
I sure hope PLUG is on top of this sort of thing, I know they have some top notch scientists. The question is always how you start engineering a new offering and dovetail it into your product portfolio roadmap.
A step increase in efficiency or decrease in costs is needed eery 18-24 months I would say. at each step new markets open up due to the financial parameters.
From your list apart from FFI who they have already said there is no more activity with the otehrs are all very relevant, just not yet their time
They have done a lot of work with JM as discussed yesterday to halep drive down costs as they scale up manufacturing
that will then drive down the cost of some of these solutions making the end solution more affordable.
when the time is right to make solutions affordable PLUG already has the agreements in place to rapidly deploy solutions.
prime example Gaussin. They are promoting the heck out of the H2 version of their tuggers which have progen engines. No one has bought I presume because of cost or infrastructure, once those are addressed (things like IRA incentives help) they will be delivered. The agreement is still in place.
Surprised you didnt put FedEx UPS DHL on the list all successful technology pilots but not economic. their time will come as H2 adoption increases. Can you imagine the cost saving when making 500,000 fuel cells a year (there are less than 100,000 PLUG fuel cells out there in total).
The team seem to have realized you need to hit the bigger solutions first to justify the costs/savings hence large stationary and large electrolysers.
Still expecting TRUs to be available by end of the decade
there had better be
no news yet on the three big H2 production deals (2 x 1GW one 500MW) in Europe, the Finnish deals were different.
plus the date for Georgia to be liquidizing for the first time
anyone know what the SOP date is all about?
I don't recognize that acronym, is it short for full homogenization (?) or whatever RIDE talked about in terms of all licenses, safety certificates and testing complete?
Thanks dd
Looks better than I thought near 50% gross margin is insane in this business
Will read more when I get back from vacation
Some color in the customer(s) would be nice
Any potential buyer would be waiting for the product to prove itself. No need to rush even if price is higher the risk and expenses of launch are past
IMHO. The rise this week reflects market realising how the IVECO cash let’s them get the FCEV production out with no dilution
Cash from inventory BEV sales has helped
Currently it’s like a drowning swimmer who has struggled but got to the side of the pool exhausted. Have they the energy to get out and survive?
No Hindenburg was diesel powered that caught fire then the waxed cloth membrane. All the hydrogen escaped un combusted into the atmosphere, very fast.
Had the tanker under I95 been hydrogen fuel the interstate would have been untouched, H2 escapes very fast
I only see a restated 10k not a 10q for the first or second quarter.
Accumulated deficit is an irrelevant number but does help future tax commmitments
https://www.noemamag.com/the-extraordinary-green-promise-of-a-tiny-molecule
Great article about the twin spheres to hold millions of tons of hydrogen in Alabama New York.
And another in August in Georgia
Expect a bunch of politicians and financiers for that one
Jack
Cramer suddenly invented a rule to say he can’t support any company not making a profit.
So give us 18 months
Have you pencilled in the August analyst event?
Cash “flow” has been good this qtr with the IVECO stake sold for $$ and lots of inventory being shipped now the IRA is in place. Could survive until August when the rule changes and FCEV is rolling off the line straight to customers