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thegovna88 don't know how much revenue, if any, will be reported in Q4 but if there is some, I don't expect a lot. Say we get $1.00 a buck a board from Intel. If they ship 500,000 that's only $500,000. If they get 30-60 day terms the invoices may not get paid until January hence the revenues will be reported in Q1 of 2004. There are a lot of things in play here and I would not get hung up on revenues for this quarter or next. Just be happy we will be deploying and know that revenues will appear at some point in time.
What we really need is revenue projections. That will do wonders.
Larry you are correct. There will be revenues in Q1 of 2004 which won't be reported until April-May. Real revenues will probably not start until the middle of next year. Q4 of 2003 will be very small.
Revenues from subcriptions of the trusted services will be lagging actual deployment.
2004, there is no guarantee Wave will succeed. I think decisions by management and market adoption has everything to do with the success of Wave.
Wave must also stay ahead of the curve with it's technology.
2004 you seem awful hostile. I don't believe my post to you was in that vain.
Doma your post had attack language in it and his reponse had attack language in it. Both were deleted.
I must tell you that there are many posts I agree with that I delete. I have to be fair, and if there is attack language in a post, whether I agree or disagree, it comes down.
2004 many have talked about "cheerleaders". I don't look at it that way. I don't tell people to go out and buy Wave tomorrow because it can't miss, it can. There are no guarantees in the stock market.
What I do is look at the company, management, products, revenues (if any)(we are a start up company so revenues will follow at some point in time) and if there is a market for Wave's products. If I like what I dig up with DD I invest.
I guess I kind of resent being called a cheerleader because I don't feel I am. I am just an investor that will stay in this investment as long as I think it has merit. If something were to happen to make me think I was in the wrong investment, I would sell the stock and move on to something else. And I guarantee you that if I do move on to something else I will never come back here and bad mouth the company or the stock. Because if this investment fails I only have myself to blame, no one else.
I could sell today at $2.70. If the stock goes down to $.10 next week who should I blame for not selling at $2.70? The only answer is ME
So, I am not a cheerleader, I am investor that believes in my investment in Wave, and that Wave is on the right path at this point in time.
Barge, cut and paste tampa's post and add a paragraph if you wish. If everyone agrees with the addendum we will go with that.
tampa, I have put your post in a file in my Word. I will hold it there for a day or two to see if anyone wants to add anything or delete anything. If no one adds anything I will put it up.
Thanks for the anchor.
24601 I would be happy to update the anchor post. If someone would write it and either send it to me through a PM or post it here, I will update the anchor post.
tampa, great post. Please continue to give us your insight as you know more about this industry than most of us. (Me for sure)
Thanks again,
You know it'f funny how some keep pointing out all the missteps of management over the years but fail to point out how they re-made the company on the go and are now poised to generate mega millions of dollars in revenues.
TPM did not happen by accident. Wave was the leader and ahead of it's time with it's technology, and in promoting the TPM market. All the money invested in EMBASSY and all the building of relationships with the other players and all the demos and shows that Wave attended, are about to pay off.
The bridges have been built, and for the assute investor that has done their DD on Wave, can now see that Wave is on top of that bridge and is crossing over and will be a major player in the security space for all types of platforms.
I have always contended that this is a once in a life time investment. I have seen nothing that dissuades me from that premise.
By: tophersaint
29 Oct 2003, 09:25 AM EST
Msg. 103150 of 103150
Jump to msg. #
Today's PR: Professional Edition...
It's just fun. And, while certain of the cynics obsess over this or that note, the Wavoids are able to hear the music.
This PR... is just the NORMAL, run-of-the-mill PR you EXPECT from a company that's growing up... announcing new products... and subtly positioning itself against some possible adversaries.
To the old Wave gang: Ain't this something? Our little company is starting to act NORMALLY. It's got REAL products--the only ones to work across all 6 TCG platforms--to sell. There is NO RIVAL for the TCG... no alternative standard in the works... It IS the ONLY game in town.
Today's release... BORING, surely, to some. But, it's the brick-and-mortar (or part of the brick and mortar) of how a company goes to market.
Best Regards,
c m
Bluefang, my last post on the subject which is not worth my time or energy.
Everytime someone buys a stock there is a seller of that stock. Even if the MM go naked on a sell (short) they eventually have to cover with a buy. Every share bought or sold has a counter part on the other side.
You can not buy something from thin air, you buy from a seller and visa versa.
Take care, on to better things.
hey BULL, thanks for saving us.
2004 thanks. We have some very intelligent posters here. We are quite lucky.
The next few years should be fun. Not all of the turtles will make it to the water however, but some will.
Someone just put at least eighty grand on the nose.
kisamura supply and demand. That's all there is to it. No more, no less.
Not every stock is up today.
Has something changed in the past month that makes you think there is something wrong?
I think the past month we have shipped more product in the history of Wave. The price will catch up. Patience.
Bluefang you are wrong. For every buy there has to be a sell. Now some may lower the price they are willing to accept hence the price drifts down. Others may offer a price that is high and someone else is willing to pay it then the price moves up.
All buys have to equal all sells. That is a fact.
Interesting article. And both are our customers. Nice.
=======================================================
Associated Press
Two tech titans designate each other public enemy No. 1
Monday October 27, 9:04 pm ET
By Brian Bergstein, AP Technology Writer
NEW YORK (AP) -- IBM Corp. made a bigger incursion than usual at this year's HP World -- a trade show for thousands of Hewlett-Packard Co. customers, equipment resellers and companies whose technologies work on HP computer systems.
IBM traditionally has a booth at HP World to display software that runs on HP systems. But at the August show in Atlanta, Big Blue urged attendees to depart HP World for a seminar about IBM's own systems, sweetening the offer with a drawing for a free convertible.
Meanwhile, IBM marketers drove around the Georgia World Congress Center handing out Lego building blocks to brag about the toy company's decision that week to replace HP computing systems with IBM products.
In a rivalry with big implications for these two U.S. technology stalwarts -- and for the companies, schools and governments that spend billions on their products -- IBM is doing its utmost to keep HP a wannabe.
HP picked this fight last year when it bought Compaq Computer Corp. for $19 billion, the biggest high-tech acquisition ever, and said it would challenge IBM's lead in lucrative corporate computing markets.
And while there is little sign that HP is even close to beating IBM at its own game, IBM isn't taking chances.
It has doubled the commissions it pays resellers who oust HP products. It beats its chest whenever it beats HP to a big contract, like one coming this week with Alpine Electronics Inc. And its people portray HP as a bit player in services and software -- which generate two-thirds of IBM's revenue.
"I don't ever see HP," said Scott Hebner, an IBM software vice president. "They don't bring any real software assets to the table."
The head of IBM's systems group, William Zeitler, contends HP is so worried about losses in the server market that it is aggressively cutting prices and possibly "stuffing" its sales channel -- artificially boosting revenue by giving resellers more products than they need. HP denies the charge.
Zeitler also predicts that most customers who spurn IBM servers will choose low-cost specialist Dell Inc., not HP.
IBM now pays a 10 percent commission, up from 5 percent, to certain resellers who get businesses to replace their HP equipment with IBM gear. IBM gives the same cut if it's Sun Microsystems Inc. that's on the losing end.
HP says it considered all the IBM broadsides a compliment. And it, too, offers a commission to sales partners who displace IBM or Sun -- 15 percent.
"It's not surprising IBM is trying to point their guns in our direction," said Jim Milton, an HP senior vice president in enterprise systems. "It's a testimony to how we're doing in the marketplace."
Zeitler called the commission increase a mere sign of IBM aggressiveness.
"We intend to move as many users as we can to our side, and use every weapon in our arsenal to do it," he said.
That battle helps customers.
At O.C. Tanner Co., a workplace services firm with IBM and HP servers, chief information officer Dave Berg said HP "bent over backwards" to keep IBM from making more inroads. HP let Berg try a server for free for six months before he finally decided to buy.
"I like the idea of having both of them captive, because in some ways, it keeps both of them honest," Berg said. "As long as they serve us well, what's the difference?"
Actually, both companies love to highlight their differences.
Armonk, New York-based IBM, which generated $87 billion in revenue the last four quarters, is mainly focused on corporate and government markets, though it still makes consumer laptops. Meanwhile, Palo Alto, California-based HP, which had $71 billion in revenue in the past year, also sells consumer printers, cameras and home entertainment devices.
When it comes to corporate computing, IBM makes more of what it sells, including Web infrastructure software and chips for several kinds of servers. IBM says its in-house assets help it shape products for customers in particular industries.
HP has its own network-management software but mainly incorporates software from other vendors, notably Microsoft Corp., BEA Systems Inc. and Oracle Corp. HP is banking heavily on Intel Corp.'s Itanium server chips, which HP co-developed.
HP says its approach helps customers get more out of their existing equipment instead of forcing them to buy all new stuff.
"IBM is using a page from the playbook of the '70s and '80s, which was: IBM's operating systems, IBM's applications, IBM's services," said Nora Denzel, who heads HP's "adaptive enterprise" service. "Ultimately that play was rejected."
HP says adopting technologies made by others is less expensive. But IBM has made similar bets -- it also offers servers with Intel processors and the open-source Linux operating system.
And there isn't much evidence IBM costs more.
Interland Inc., a Web hosting company with HP and IBM servers, recently shifted new purchases toward IBM. The two brands were "very similar," said John Lally, Interland's product management director, but "IBM was able to win on economics, which was our most important decision point."
IBM is the world's top server seller by revenue. HP sells more units, however, and is the top supplier of servers on the Linux and Windows operating systems.
Those are two fast-growing segments, but they also produce lower profit margins.
Another risk for HP is having "an awful lot on its plate," because it is spread across so many markets and is trying to cut costs, said analyst Charles King of the Sageza Group.
Also, while both companies' services divisions can help drum up hardware business, HP has only 65,000 employees in services to IBM's 180,000. IBM bolstered that by buying PricewaterhouseCoopers' consulting arm last year for $3.9 billion -- a deal HP explored in 2000 at about $17 billion.
"From HP's standpoint, the services side is where they still have a way to go versus IBM," said Meta Group analyst Rob Schafer.
Even so, HP and IBM had better get used to each other. There's only so much business to go around.
In April, Procter & Gamble Co. hired HP to take over its internal tech operations, a 10-year deal worth $3 billion. Five months later, P&G announced a 10-year, $400 million pact to turn over management of its human-resources department to IBM.
Each contract required HP and IBM to take hundreds of P&G employees on as their own, which means "both IBM and HP will be working collaboratively in several areas," P&G spokesman Damon Jones said.
"We don't see any reason," he added, "why these companies won't be able to work together, successfully."
Bluefang, many of Barge's and Doma's post are deleted. You just never see them.
I consider all three of you as friends and I try to be fair. You just don't see what is deleted sometimes.
I try and delete all attack posts. Sometimes I miss them or Matt misses them and they slide through.
If you were to read every post as they are written, in real time, you would have seen many of their posts eliminated within minutes of posting.
Take care
Bluefang thanks for your input, but it seems you are in a 'groundhog day' sort of posting. I think you have milked the 'buzz' enough.
Enough said. Duplications are against the rules and not welcomed.
I'm back from a great trip to the right coast. Traveled to Chicago, Bethesda, Rocky Mount N.C., Charleston, Kiawa Island, Savannah, Tybee Island, St. Augustine and Orlando. Just got home.
The highlight of my trip was meeting Mr. & Mrs. Jesse Livermore. Having been cyber buddies for over 8 years, we finally met. We had a wonderful visit. You will all enjoy meeting them in Las Vegas.
I have met IN PERSON, so many wonderful people invested in this stock. I have never been this involved, nor will I ever be this involved again with any stock. I have always said this is a once in a life time investment (my opinion) and I believe this community is also a once in a life time experience. I have other stocks and am no where near as involved as with this community.
I notice that many mice were playing while I was away. (Just reading today's posts) You can all be assured that attacking posts will not stand so you all better start posting without the attacks and without the sarcasm. I know you all can do that. (Wow, picking up that Southern accent)
Glad to be home and look forward to great success for our investment.
Let's all be cool.
Today's posts shows what the purpose of this board is for. Keep it up. Great relative conversation today.
Could the 'pop' we got last week have anything to do with people in the know as to what is coming down? You think?
Seems to me that when it is 'official' that Wave and HP are joined at the hip, the stock price at $2.87 is quite a bargain.
IBM (ready) HP (get set) White box makers (go). Q4 has begun. Enjoy the ride.
Weby, I agree that some of Barge's posts are boarderline. I know that he respects you and he just gets so intense sometimes that it clouds his posts to you.
I have sent him a PM and asked him to change his tone of some of his boarderline posts. If he doesn't they will no longer be boarderline, they will be gone.
I honestly believe he is not attacking you, he is just trying to make his point. Don't you know that Barge is never wrong? LOL
Let's all ease up.
24601, if it's firmware on the (Infineon?) chip and it's soldered on to the Intel board is there anyone one else offering Trusted services at this point in time? If not, doesn't that mean Wave's technology will be on whos ever chip is on the motherboard? And doesn't that make it possible for anyone owning that CPU with that motherboard, the ability to purchase Wave's trusted services? And the fact that it is soldered on, doesn't that mean it is not an option, in other words, it can't be take off or unpluged from that board?
greg s curious on your opinion why Intel is letting Wave sit at the table and chair a very important group involving TPMs.
Why is Intel letting others make the TPM chip and why are they putting Wave's technology on one of their boards, not a plug mind you, but a permanent placement that is soldered on. Why soldered and not a plug in? That takes away an 'option' and makes it permanent doesn't it or am I missing something?
To those of you that want a chat room or want to talk about sports, politics, or what ever,other than Wave and it's partners, here is the perfect site for you. I am sure everything goes here. Enjoy.
http://www.investorshub.com/boards/board.asp?board_id=2011
Kev, actually I find the board in excellent spirits the last two days with terrific information. All the bashers seemed to be on vacation and that always bodes well for the spirit on the board.
You must be reading another board, but thanks for your observation.
We are right at our 50 day moving average. It's nice to see our resident bashers continue to tell us how untrustworthy Wave's management is and all Wave does is go up. I believe we hit a low of $2.41 not to long ago and here we are at $3.10 and rising.
I expect Intel to be shipping product over the next 30 days. Just my opinion of course.
cpa to have an opinion is one thing but to try an inflame a subject that has nothing to do with Wave, such as the post I am answering, should and will be deleted because it has nothing to do with Wave at all.
It will stand as an example this time but please don't go there, e-mails between Wavoids and rumors have nothing to do with the reason for this board.
You can think what you will about all the secret dealings going on among all the Waviods (LOL) but that has nothing to do with the subject at hand.
Thanks for your co-operation.
I will say this again. This board if for discussion of Wave Systems. It is not a chat room. Some of you do not follow IHUB'S rules such as talking about sports and other topics non Wave. Those are the rules. You either follow them or you don't. So don't complain when you can not find these posts.
I don't know why some of you are so surprised and claim out rage when sports or political posts are deleted.
There are many places to discuss sports, politics and anything else you want to discuss it's just that this board is not the place to do that.
On the RB DD board sports and political posts were also deleted.
Sport's posts are SPAM on this board. The reason for that is one person posts a sports or political post, another poster sees this and responds, or thinks it's O.K. to chat about sports or politics. WRONG. This is not the board for that. It is SPAM on this board.
I think we have some great posters here. When all the noise is gone there are quality posts here. Those that do not want to or can't follow IHUB's rules should move on if that is their choice.
Maybe the reason some of the DooWopGuys type posters don't show up so often anymore is because of all the egos getting in the way of DD posting like we used to have. And all the phony discussions of such things as buyouts and lying, all due to rumors, usually started by the poster that posts the first rumor: HIS OWN.
greg s thanks for the info. Again, not being a techie I couldn't even tell you from the picture which is the TMP. Looks like two chips there and I don't know one from the other.
But, if Intel is making it's own TMP, why are they partnered up with Wave to put it on one of their boards coming out this quarter?
greg s may be I am wrong here but Intel is not making the TPM 1.2 for LeGrande are they? And if not, wouldn't the TPM have to come from someone like Infinion, MSM, Atmel or STMicro? And if Wave has public partnership agreements with 3 or the 4 mentioned above, isn't reasonable to assume the TPM on LeGrande will be the technology from Wave?
Again, not being a techie maybe I just don't understand who's making the TPM for LeGrande. Intel is not making it are they?
greg s' not being a techie, doesn't this say WAVE is all over LeGrade?
7
More on Attestation and Trust Unsealing and sealing secrets
LT provides the capability to seal and unseal secrets with the assistance of a TPM v.1.2 device. This capability ensures that a secret generated by one domain manager or environment is not
available to another domain. The basis of this protection lies with the TPM’s Storage Root Key (SRK), a public/private key
pair. The SRK private key never leaves the TPM. Any data encrypted with the SRK public key can only be decrypted by the corresponding SRK private key. As the private key never leaves the TPM, only this TPM may decrypt this data.
The TPM provides a SEAL operation, which permits data and a list of PCRs to be encrypted into a blob using a TPM storage key. The resulting encrypted blob may be stored anywhere. A corresponding UNSEAL operation decrypts the blob, but will not expose decrypted data unless the saved PCR values match current PCRs. This operation permits a domain manager to seal data to the current PCR values representing its current protected environment; the resulting blob can only be unsealed to expose the data if the identical domain manager is running.
Typically, a domain manager generates its own bulk encryption key, to be used in software, and seals this key using the TPM. The bulk encryption key is then used to encrypt all secrets managed by this domain manager, and may also be used to encrypt secrets for the applications running in the protected partition.
Establishing Initial Trust A sealed secret can only be unsealed and accessed by the same domain manager environment. If a secret known only to a user was sealed to an environment that the user chose to trust, then if this secret can be re-displayed the user knows the same trusted environment is currently running.
A similar method uses a secret shared with a remote agent, allowing the remote agent to know that the same trusted environment is currently running. But that leaves the question of how the user or remote agent determines that the environment should be trusted before a shared secret exists. To put the question more succintly: how do we determine initial trust?
LT supports an optional, verifiable reporting mechanism, called attestation. Attestation permits either the user or, optionally, a remote agent to measure the currently running environment using measurement and reporting mechanisms supported by the TPM. Based upon these reported measurements, the user or remote agent may use this information to decide whether to trust the current platform environment.
For a remote agent, the attestation process involves standard cryptographic methods. A remote agent generates a random value (called a nonce or challenge), and sends it to the system to be
tested. At that system, the TPM creates a record containing the nonce and the current PCR values (which represent the currently running domain manager environment). The TPM signs this record
with its private key and the signed record is returned to the remote agent, along with the TPM’s public key and credentials. The remote agent may examine the credentials to determine that this public key does; in fact, represent a real TPM, then uses the public key to verify the signature on the record and, then extracts the data from the record. The extracted data may now be checked against various lists to determine if this is an environment acceptable to the remote agent.
Attesting the environment of a local machine to a human user is more challenging, given that most humans cannot perform cryptographic calculations in their heads. There are at least three methods a user may choose from to identify the local machine environment and make a trustdecision:
1. Assuming that a system is in its original state (as delivered from an OEM that a user trusts), the user may simply choose to trust this initial configuration. The user would be advised to
create a secret (e.g. a favorite phrase or quote) to be sealed to this environment. As long as this secret can be displayed to the user on subsequent boots, the user has confidence that the
same environment is running.
2. A portable token capable of cryptographic operations may be used to act as a “remote agentlike” proxy for the user. This token can be loaded with measurements of valid environment
configurations at the local retailer. Such a portable token can then be connected to the PC and performs attestation of the user system in a manner identical to that described for remote
agents. The portable token could then report pass/fail.
3. The user may request that a remote agent perform attestation of the system. However, this leaves the problem of how the remote agent safely reports this information back to the user,
given that the user cannot (yet) trust the software environment on the system. There are at least two methods of achieving this:
If the user has a portable token, the remote agent’s results can be communicated using cryptographically secured protocols to the portable token which displays the result for the user.
The remote agent provides the results “out-of-band”, perhaps using an automated phone menu or mail.
CPA and I respect your opinion also. We are just seeing things a little bit differently. LOL. Just a little.
CPA, you have a way with words, not. That is not a lie. In the course of doing business management gives it's best bet on things they think will happen. Sometimes they do and sometimes they don't.
Wave is dependent on others for deployment. I think you take liberties with what you think are lies and what are forecasts.
Folks, we have had enough posts now on who lied and when they lied.
No one, and I repeat no one, can support it either way with facts. At least no one is coming forward with any facts, only innuendos. So please, use this forum for what it was intended for and that is to talk about Wave and it's partners.
Anymore silly posts on this subject will be considered duplicate repeating of the same thing which is a no no.
Thanks for the co-operation.