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I haven't talked to Dan in a while, but I was under the very strong impression that the company that was merging into WNRC was a private company. Why would an already public company in an unrelated area want WNRC? I know this is all speculation from folks this far but it's not making much sense to me. Maybe I'm just missing something...
Yeah, it was so effing easy that I find it hard to believe I'm apparently the only person on this board that has talked to Dan in the last 3-4 months.
I talked to him last Thursday. Answered the phone first call...just like he did when I called a few months ago. Don't know why other people have such a hard time getting ahold of Dan, I've never had any issues.
I had some time and decided to try to give Dan a call today. I don't think any of this is new information, but for those of you like me that like to hear something (even if it's the same thing) every once in a while just to confirm as much as possible that things are moving in the right direction. Here's a summary. I was typing while he talked, so most of this is exact quotes with some additions for context.
- In response to how things are going in Elko: "Things are moving along. Building out the system is based on revenue."
- Other projects: "Trying to work on a merger with another group. That process has been bogged down. No new updates as to how they're progressing. I met with them a few weeks ago before I left town, they indicated that they had to resubmit their filing and it would take an additional 30 days to resubmit." (That filing is what has already been discussed on this board - approval from the SEC to go forward with this merger.
"They would purchase the systems (WNRC's assets) with stock, that stock would be distributed to shareholders."
"That stock would be in the new company on a higher exchange." "We can't raise money here on the pink sheets."
"We started this discussion way back in September. My understanding is that it's moving forward, but we're not the ones filing and we didn't hire the attorneys, so I don't have visibility on it."
That's about it. He said he couldn't really provide much more of an update than that or any estimate of timeline b/c, as he said, he doesn't have visibility on the process. He finished by saying.
"My understanding is that it's moving forward."
So again, nothing new but you can at least put a new timestamp on the old update so to speak. He had to take another call in the middle of the phone call and I knew he needed to return that call, so I didn't ask many followup questions, but maybe someone else will feel like giving him a call sometime and asking stuff like:
- are their prospective terms for the merger discussed already? If so, what do those look like?
- buyout price? stock option?
- is he staying on board to run the new company?
- etc
Yep, I saw when you posted that. Was nice to hear it confirmed by someone who has family living there. This might be a frustrating wait but seems from these levels it will almost certainly end up profitable for those who wait.
My best friend's brother teaches high school shop in Elko. Last week we were just chatting, catching up on things, and my buddy was just talking about how Elko is STILL in an explosive growth phase bc of the good and silver mines. That market alone is worth the wait. For me at least. Any other plans that eventually come to fruition are just extra.
Sorry friend, but I don't think you did the math right but, of course, I could be wrong. If you're going to talk percentages, then you have to be comparing apples to apples or oranges to oranges.
This is my understanding, with the math laid out. I hope people feel free to comment/correct if this is erroneous.
To talk percentages we either have to talk about money as a percentage of money, or shares as a percentage of shares.
I'll do them both and show the math - the percentages should be the same in the end. For both scenarios we're going to assume a position of DNDT shares of 1M (1,000,000).
Shares to shares
- As of this morning, those 1,000,000 shares of DNDT are now converted to 10,000 shares of DNDTD (1M / 100)
- A post R/S dividend of $0.01/share means that 10k x .01 = $100 dividend.
- Now, to compare and get a percentage, we have to convert back to shares. Stock closed at .0019 yesterday, and my Fidelity account is showing DNDT with a price of .19, as it should. So, to get back to shares, we take our $100 and figure out how many shares at the current price that would net us, so $100 / .19 = 526
- We can then determine the percentage dividend by taking our new 526 shares and dividing by our original share count. So, 526 / 10,000 = .0526 or 5.26%
Money to money
- Initial portfolio is valued at $1,900 (either 1M @ .0019 or 10k @ .19)
- Dividend is given at .01 x 10k shares post-R/S for $100 dividend (same as above example)
- Dividend as a percentage of original position is $100 / $1900 = .0526 or 5.26%
So, that's how I see it, a 5.25% dividend...which, having watched DNDT run from sub-penny to .06 and back down to .0012 or where ever it touched, 5% doesn't seem like much ... but hey, it is a 5% dividend, and seems to indicate to me that management feels good about the health of the company, i.e., not doing an R/S just because the O/S is maxed out and they need to dilute more.
Anybody see errors with my thought process here? Based on yesterday's close, I'm pretty sure a .01 dividend comes out to 5.26%
If I remember correctly I think it was only about 20k
Ok. Yep. Got filled just took a few minutes. 111k more for me tucked away for a rainy day.
Thanks...guess its just taking a few minutes to execute.
Is the ask still .005? On my phone and fidelity quote is way wrong. Trying to pick up some at these levels.
Dave, let me help you out. The original lease fund from June 2011 was for $250,000.
Yes Dave, the oven lease fund from 2011. You know the one with the following terms:
- it was $250k not 500k
- it's a 3 year minimum, which would put earliest conversion in summer of 2014
- there's a .50 minimum for conversion, as I explained in my last post
So again, tell me how the oven fund has anything to do with the PPS this month
Tell me again where anyone was issued free shares.
Tell me again where any shares besides Asher are being converted this month.
TIA
Can you explain this, I'm not completely sure what you're referring to here.
Hmmm...what actually happened here is Eddie started the meeting and got part-way into the first slide and then the power went out, so he did what any reasonable person would do - rescheduled the meeting a day or two later and presented the same information.
I know, very conspiratorial huh?
.05 to .042 isn't 90%. Already explained this. Nice try though.
My intent in posting that was simply to provide the information in a format that was compatible with iHub posting requirements. It was not intended as an opinion or statement on the credibility of Eddie's statement. I'll let folks decide for themselves, but just wanted to put the info out there. People can either use it to bolster their opinion of Eddie, or lower it. Makes no difference to me.
I've pared it down so that it doesn't violate TOU, but the information is there for anyone who cares.
I'm not trying to get under your skin here, so please don't take this as such...but I just don't see continuity between your post and what I view as reality.
Right. The great thing is that you can only lose 100% of your investment. A very simple, and (IMO wise) strategy is to take the amount you're willing to invest, split it in half, and just invest 50% to start.
Even someone that invested 50% at .50 last summer...well, they can only lose 50% of their overall pool of money. A simple, and yes, it was simple as we knew how many shares Asher had and knew when they would dry up - so a very simple strategy, and one that would not have required quick fingers or super accurate timing, would have been to take that remaining 50% and buy back in, you know...the whole average down concept...say around .03.
Selling around .12 or .11, or say you're real slow catching on or indecisive and sold around .10....
Here comes the elementary school math.
- 50% bought at .50 and sold at .10 is a 80% loss, which means you have 10% of your total pool of money left
- 50% bought at .03 and sold at .10 is a 233% gain, which means you have 333% of your second investment, or 166% of your total pool of money
- add the two together, and round down for easier math: 175% ROI in a year's time.
Maybe not amazing for penny stocks, but umm...well, it just beats me how anyone thinks it's the company's fault that anybody's SMKY account is red.
Sometimes ya just gotta answer your own questions around here...
I would say that...yes, if you invested so much money that you couldn't afford to invest an additional 1/4 of your original principle, then it is probably your fault that you are not in the green.
And I'm being generous. It doesn't matter if someone bought at .48 last summer...a mere 25% of their original investment invested in the high .02s/low .03s and sold above .10 would put them even or in the green.
Pretty simple math if you ask me. It's not like the recent bottom and tops were hard to time either. There was PLENTY of opportunity to buy low and sell high.
And in the penny world, putting all your eggs in one basket with nothing left to play the swings is, well, pretty poor trading.
Speaking of dilution, care to tell me what the PPS was prior to the first Asher note converting and then tell me the percentage drop between then and now? I'm just curious how much a percentage drop you would consider "diluting out of relevance" b/c, as I'm sure you know (or maybe don't) the vast majority of the drop from last year's high had nothing to do with dilution.
Ok. So add up the numbers that Eddie is due for compensation and then show me where those funds have been and continue to come from...thru selling shares, as you and others have said is the method Eddie is using to line his pockets. Just curious what the total amount of capital is that has come in from Asher and any other sale of shares. I haven't added it all up but my gut feeling says that's its nowhere close to the amount that would be needed to cover salaries if they were being drawn. Trust or no trust I'm merely pointing out that numbers don't support your claim.
On the topic of the CEO's compensation, the CEO has stated that it's deferred. Personally I choose to believe him unless proven otherwise.
Seems pretty simple to me though ... as several have been so incredibly intent to point out multiple, multiple times, the company has no funds. In fact, it has to resort to taking relatively samll (when put in proper perspective) loans just to cover operating expenses.
A quick review of filings over any length of time makes it pretty obvious that the compensation is deferred, unless there's some magical money fairy creating bank notes somewhere.
I see so much talk on this board about the future...from both sides. One side talking about how amazing it's going to be, and the other side talking about how SMKY is going to be run into the ground, etc. And of course, only time will tell...
There's also a lot of chatter about how those pro-SMKY are always talking about "next week, next month, next year" and how the ever moving target is just a carrot above the proverbial shareholder donkeys, just out of reach but tempting enough to cause them (us) to keep plodding along like fools.
So let's talk about today. And yesterday, last week, last month, last year, etc.
Today was a red day, but we're still above .05. Without looking at a chart exactly, where were we a month ago? Or has it been two months now? I don't know, but what I'm referring to are the hundreds of thousands of shares I added (millions added by others) at prices much lower than .05. So let's go back even further. In 22 months of owning SMKY, I've only been in the red for the first 2-3 months, when I first bought at .03 (yes, those original shares I bought are nice and green), and took the opportunity to accumulate a nice chunk on the way down to .01 and back up again.
So someone tell me, since there's such a huge crowd who thinks that this is such a horrible investment being run into the ground...tell me why my account is green? I mean, we can talk fundamentals all day long every day, but we all know that in the end all that really matters is what you can sell your shares at.
So for those that like to proclaim doom and gloom for the future. I guess we'll see. I've been hearing doom and gloom just as long as I've been hearing "to the moon" type posts, and last time I checked, in 2 years of following SMKY, I've bought quite a few different times, and I'm still way in the green.
And I'm not the only one in this situation by any stretch of the imagination. Sure, maybe I should have tried to flip this as others think that all longs have done. I haven't. Maybe I should have tried to time the top last summer, etc., etc. I'm not pretending that I've made the most amazing timing trades. But, what I am saying is that a simpleton like myself that has mediocre timing has an investment that after a couple of years is still doing fine here, despite ongoing predictions of impending doom.
Seems to me that for just as overly optimistic longs have been in their expectations of financing/profitability, the naysayers have also been equally as off in their predictions of the PPS totally tanking.
All just my humble opining.
I wouldn't expect news til the week after next at the earliest. I may be wrong, but that's what I'm tracking from communications from the top.
Not sure what reliable source is saying next week, but I'd recommend asking Eddie when he expects to be able to release some more updates.
Anybody else see that the new address is for a mobile home that was sold...listed on both trulia and willow??
I've kind of stayed off the board lately, but here's just some things to chew on in regards to financing and dilution. This is just opinion on SMKY's financing journey (past 18 months) or so:
- Financing for public companies is dilutive. Period. If it's not, they might as well be private. I mean, that's by far the biggest reason for going public, to raise capital through the sale of company currency (stock). So just for starters, we know that even the best financing terms are still going to result in dilution.
- It would have been nice if Eddie didn't have to resort to Asher, and we can hem and haw all day about what Asher is, toxic/non-toxic, "effective dilution" (which caused quite an uproar of opinions), and all that other stuff. Bottom line is that Eddie has used Asher multiple times. As has been stated over and over, the overall total amounts of dilution are relatively small, and for all practical purposes, as soon as the last conversion was complete we've held approx 200% from the bottom (as high as what, 500-600% depending on where the actual bottom was)...but my point is, the year long downtrend from last summer isn't really the result of multiple Asher conversions. In fact, we're really right in the same trading range as when the first conversion started, so the effects of the dilution have been minimal.
- What are the other options? Well, myself and probably other longs, believe that Eddie has had other financing options available. If that's the case, why hasn't he secured financing already? Well, we believe the offers on the table were at horrible terms. Terms that would truly wreck the value of shareholders stock in a couple of years.
- So is there any value in waiting? Is there any hope in waiting? Is there any chance for better terms? Is there any chance for major financing at all? A lot of people on this board would probably answer no to all of those questions, and that's fine, they have perfectly valid reasons for drawing their own conclusions...however, I believe it's worth the wait.
- Eddie has stated multiple times that he will not take a financing deal unless it's on favorable terms. So what's been done to create the possibility of better terms?
1. New updated business plan, I've already talked about this in detail. The business plan makes SMKY way more appealing, but after all, as has been pointed out by many detractors here, it's just a plan.
2. New management. Yes, we can all agree they're going to be paid somehow at some point. What I find really kind of amusingly ironic is that people liked to bash on how there wasn't the management in place to put together a nation-wide, multi-product business, and now that the management is in place, with experience and credentials, it's all about how much they're going to get paid, etc., etc. So, we'll see. But, new management had to come on board. From the last PR, it looks to me like they're already performing...I guess this next PR will add some details as to how effective the new team has been. Bottom line, new management adds to the probability of financing on better terms.
3. Distribution. This has been discussed a thousand times. The last PR was pretty clear, there are distribution contracts in place and I think we can confidently expect more to be added...possibly some REALLY big ones.
4. Revenues. Revenues are the golden ticket. We haven't seen any yet. We know it's going to take a while to restart the ovens and start to move products in these new distribution lines, but I think there's good reason to believe that by the end of the year, we will probably see very positive revenues. However, anyone that's talked to Eddie recently should know that certain factors weigh very heavily in the negotiation process in lieu of proven revenues.
So what's the whole point here? Without knowing the exact terms that have been offered in the past, and obviously not knowing the terms that will eventually be reached, this is what I'm confident of:
Even at the horrible terms of Asher, and even if it ends up being 4-5 notes that are converted in total, if those funds allow for the continued progress that we've seen in recent months, and that progress ultimately results in securing major financing on terms that are favorable to long-term shareholder value, I think it's safe (and fair) to say that in the end, using Asher in the short-term could save millions/tens of millions of diluted shares in the long-term.
My simple brain likes to try to think of things in simple analogies.
Let's say I needed a new car but every traditional financing institution I applied for either denied me, or approved me for a new car loan at horrendous rates because I had poor credit and no income. But my current car had major problems and needed big time repairs just to keep running. In the midst of all this I was busy going to interviews and submitting resumes, but still hadn't found a job.
Then, all of a sudden, right when I had landed a really good interview my car broke down and I had a decision. I could either finance a new vehicle at terms so bad that I would never be able to pay it off, get a small payday loan at a horrible rate, or let my car die and give up totally with no transportation to get to further interviews/job.
If it meant taking a couple of $500 loans from the local Check Into Cash to make some repairs and stay in the hunt for a job instead of financing a $20,000 vehicle at bad terms, that's what I would do.
In my opinion, that's what Eddie did with Asher. Of course, if he "never gets the job" that allows him to finance a new car at a reasonable rate, then putting money from a loan shark into a clunker will definitely leave him worse off than just throwing in the towel. However, if those payday loans keep the old beast running just long enough to complete follow-up interviews, get hired, and work long enough to get that first monthly paycheck to go to the bank with as proof of income and negotiate MUCH better terms on a new car loan, then it's clearly, without any doubt, the best option.
So, we will just see. I feel that we're already starting to see and will continue to see more as things progress, but only time will tell.
I'm not trying to change anyone's opinion here...and doubt that I will. Those that don't believe can list off a dozen reasons why Asher is killing the stock, why the new management won't perform, why the business plan is pie-in-the-sky, why it's all a scam, why Eddie will never get any financing, why the ovens will never see anything but dust, and why there will never be any real revenues or distribution. I'm not trying to argue with those viewpoints...they're not going to change.
However, for people that do believe, or want to believe, but maybe don't really understand why Eddie has resorted to using Asher, or wondering if the past inability to secure financing really does predict a future (and declining) inability to do so, then this may be of some value.
So, I offer it just as food for thought...for the whole board.
What in the world is going on here? This is crazy.
Dave,
Try to be a bit real here. You posted a whole email from Eddie about the PPM offering implying that you knew that Eddie had issued or given away tons and tons of "gift shares" and now that it's clear you don't really know the outcome there you're acting like you're asking a question.
If you're really wondering how many free shares were given away, I'll help you out. Zero.
If you're wondering how many gift shares were issued as a result of the PPM, well, it's in the last 10Q.
I think you were right about the no response. I'll give it some time. Maybe tomorrow or Sunday I'll link together the facts so that people know the truth here.
Good luck pal.
Furthermore, when there is no buying pressure, orders on the bid keep the stock from falling further. Fact.
I'm not talking about my personal strategy. Never have been. Just pointing out the obvious. The bid doesn't magically move up. If I go place a buy order for a price under the ask but above the highest bid, the bid moves up. Period. You're acting like as long as there are any buys there's never a large gap. Not true. Best luck to you too pal.