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Can’t find any news that would have prompted 108 million shares to change hands. Called investor relations, was dumped into voice mail.
Will let the group know if I get a call back.
Anyone know what insiders are doing? Holding, accumulating, or dumping? I’m trying to decide if I should hang in there or take my beating and salvage what I can. What a nightmare this has turned out to be!
Also, does anybody know if investor relations still exists? I tried calling Tony Gikas today and had my call forwarded to another number that didn’t pick up. No one has responded to my message so far.
Also, someone was asking what motivation Glencore might have to keep price down at this stage. Seems to me they would be thus motivated if they wanted not only to control PLM, but to take it over and pay us “bag holders” in dog crap instead of dollars.
We were all idiots to expect fair treatment from a company with this reputation:
http://www.industriall-union.org/special-report-glencore-the-commodities-giant-with-no-soul
Hi, all.
Thought you might be entertained by rereading this letter I wrote to Cherry a year ago:
Mr. Jonathan Cherry, CEO
Polymet Mining, Inc.
444 Ceder Street
Suite 2060
St. Paul, MN 55101
9 July, 2018
XXXX XXXXXX
XXXXX XXXXXXX XXXXXX XX XX
XXXXXXX, XX XXXXX
Dear Mr. Cherry:
I am a long-term, loyal Polymet buy and hold investor. I hold about XXX,XXX shares and have been invested in PLM for about 10 frustrating years. I am writing to express a growing concern with the intimate ties between PLM and Glencore.
Given the news of recent allegations and legal actions against Glencore, I am worried about Glencore’s ethics should it make a move to take over PLM. I fear they will not have minority shareholders best interests at heart in such a potential takeover and wonder if even now they are manipulating the price of this thinly traded stock so as to justify a discounted price in a buyout. Please note, I have no evidence to support this speculation and I am making no accusations. I am just expressing a worry based on the tepid response of the stock price in the face of recent good news, like the conclusion of the land swap with the forestry service.
I hope that you as CEO of Polymet Mining will watch out for the best interests of all your shareholders and avoid the temptation to respond only to the interests of the gorilla in the room. Glencore owns such a large proportion of PLM that, if the board members also aligned themselves with Glencore, that coalition could dictate terms of a buyout very unfavorable to small investors like me, to whom your fiduciary responsibility also extends.
In brief, I am pleading that you watch out for the little guy.
Thank you for your attention to my concerns.
Sincerely,
A hell of a lot of good that did! They conspired to bend us over anyway. Cherry must have had a good idea as to what Glencore’s terms would be to finance the mine build out, and how they were manipulating the price to
assure that their backstopping of the rights offering would give them a large majority position.
I had the foresight to write this letter, but not the sense to get out. I have taken a beating with 5 zeros after it!
Anyone know what insiders are doing with their rights? Any other insider trading?
Does anyone else on this board think it would be worth getting on the SECs webpage and trying to interest them in looking into what appears to be stock price manipulation of plm? I have no experience with this, but I am awfully angry about the way the price of this stock was crushed after we got the news we have been waiting ten years for. The behavior of the stock makes no sense unless you hypothesize that some large shareholder is willing to burn 10-20 million shares to keep the price depressed so they can acquire the company on the cheap.
What are these rights to shares of which you speak? I have not received any notice that I have such rights. Did I miss something?
Z-Axis,
Unfortunately, I think you are correct. I have also been in this about 10 years, and if price doesn’t move, I lose about 50%. Glencore has a history of, shall we say, inattention to legal and ethical concerns. I’ve been concerned ever since plm climbed in bed with them, not that they had much choice given the interminable delays and cash burn.
How I wish I had gotten out years ago! Question now is whether or not to hang in in hopes of a break-even or small profit, or to take my beating instead of riding this one into the ground. If Cherry gets his nest feathered by Glencore in a private transaction, does anyone out there know if stupid buy and hold buffoons like me have any legal recourse?
Trickledown:
That was my reading of the new agreement- Glencore is no less ne’er limited to 39% of board representation. One other feature of the agreement that smells bad to me is the clause allowing Glencore to acquire additional stock in a direct private transaction. I am not a lawyer nor a financial expert, and I have no inside knowledge, but I can think of only a few reasons why Glencore would want to acquire stock without going through the market: They want to be able to buy certain shares ABOVE market value to pay-off loyal PLM executives and board members while screwing the rest of us. I’d keep an eye on any transactions between Cherry and Glencore.
Does anyone have a better informed explanation of why such a clause is in the agreement?
I think denominator for projecting share price on a buyout is not 320.7million but is 417.2 million. This is the number when fully diluted after options/warrants are exercised. This is the number listed under investors tab on plm website. That means each share would be worth $2.40 if bought out for 1 billion. From the perspective of a long-term buy and hold investor with an average share price well over $1.00, this does suck. I hope the sale price would be 3 billion. That would make the pain almost worth it. Is anyone on this board smart enough to estimate the value of the ore minus the cost of extraction? I’m not! These calculations also assume no further dilution of the shares...probably a big assumption.
Just talked to investor relations at PLM. Tony said the following:
1) He is just as mystified by the trading as we are. He said they don’t know who is making these trades but they are being made through odd means, not through standard retail brokers. They appear to be computer driven. He said it is not a board member or exec of PLM and it is not Glencore. (IMO, that leaves market makers or a big short seller manipulating the market.)
2) He said there is no hidden bad news. Only 2 permits remain: a MN air permit from pollution control board and a federal 404 permit, both of which could only be applied for after other permits were in hand. The company expects these later this year or early next year. The permit to mine included a provision that none of the permits granted last week can be contested...so no new lawsuits in that regard anticipated. There are still 2 suits regarding land swap. PLM still hopes to get the swap included in legislation by the senate...a reason to vote Republican. If this gets passed, lawsuits go away.
3) He said PLM is doing nothing but presenting at trade shows to stimulate instutional investor interest...said it would be illegal for the company to do more than that. (Seems to me if we got a deep pocket buying, the manipulator would be crushed.
So, I guess we hold. I’d even consider buying, but my wife would kill me. PLM is already a disproportionately large fraction of my portfolio. And she’s right; I’ve done stupid with zeros after it in the past. The last few days have convinced me that we are gambling in a crooked casino.
Any insider selling? This pathetic response to what seems incredibly good news is puzzling.
On page 2305 of the bill is this killer paragraph:
Superior National Forest Land Exchange
The Senate amendment contained a provision (sec. 7518)
that would allow the Secretary of Agriculture to transfer of
approximately 6,650 acres of the National Forest System land
within the Superior National Forest to PolyMet Mining, Inc.
The House bill contained no similar provision.
The Senate recedes.
There are hundreds of similar paragraphs. My guess is that this committee of around 40 people (which tells you it can’t be a very effective group) adopted a rule that anything in the house bill not in the senate version or vice-versa, was automatically axed unless one of the members advocated strongly for it. I think they adopted a “get-Er-done” attitude. I didn’t see any MN names on the committee....so no one did any advocating! I doubt anyone had to raise a hand to kill this...they just had to sit and do nothing.
Next time the MN house representatives need to get the language in the bill and the senate needs to include it in their version. And hope a plm advocate is on the conference committee.
Seems like a good lobbiest would have known this and would have found one of the 40 people to champion the ammendment. I hope Jon Cherry called whatever firm they hired and tore the CEO a new one.
Great! The more calls the better. Encourage your callers to be polite and to make no threats. They should focus on the ridiculous delays due to government inertia. For what it’s worth, both of your senators denied responsibility for the actions of the committee.
It has been a painful lesson in how the government kills free enterprise, and on how difficult it is to motivate someone on the government payroll to get a job done in a timely manner. I never thought permitting a mine would take 10 years +
Maybe some of you in-staters can contact your senators to encourage them to attach the land swap to another bill in th next few weeks. Get your family and friends to call as well. Could make a difference!
Spoke to Tony Gikas this morning- investor relations for Plm. He said plm is disappointed by the failure of the land swap to make it out of conference committee, but they are hopeful they can get the provision attached to one of several possible bills coming up for a vote. He acknowledged that unless this legislative maneuver works, we are probably in for a long court battle.
I asked about Mr. Cherry’s confidence in Glencore as a partner in light of recent news of Glencore’s legal problems. He said Cherry has full confidence in Glencore and that their line of credit is sustaining a cash burn of about $2.5million a month. They are also providing engineering expertise. Tony stated there is currently no talk within the company of takeover by Glencore. He said he thinks Glencore will be happy to get the copper from the mine, to which it has exclusive buying rights for 5 years after the start of production at market value. It will ship the ore by rail to a smelting plant it owns just across the border. They will also get interest on their loans.
Asked about permitting.
Tony said they have been given no deadline by the DNR, but expect permits to be issued in the next 6 months if they are uncontested. He said that no project in MN has ever been contested, but this doesn’t guarantee that PLM won’t be the first.
Finally, I asked whether he owned any PLM stock as a way of gauging his confidence in the company’s prospects. He was gracious enough to tell me he only owned options. MY OPINION: This could mean his confidence is marginal, or that he has no cash to invest, or that he wants to stay diversified. Hard to read these tea leaves, but I would have been happier with the answer, “I just bought 100,000 shares yesterday.”
So that’s the PR spin from PLM. For what it’s worth, Mr. Gikas struck me as a nice person and a candid one, within the limits of avoiding divulging any insider info.
I received a reply to my letter to Jon Cherry. It wasn’t newsmaking, but at least the CEO and CFO appear to have read it. Reply came from a Tony Gikas, I assume investor relations. Phone 612-332-4615.
Message read: “Thanks for your letter and thank you for being a long-term shareholder. Our CEO and CFO received your message and said thanks. Feel free to call me for more.”
I would assume that invitation extends to anyone who shares my concerns about a bargain-basement sell out to Glencore.
It’s thin gruel, but at least my concerns are on the record.
Not so far...and I’m not holding my breath! I’ll let you know if I hear back.
I assume you are referring to the fall of 2028.
Sorry. I get a little cranky when I watch the government set fire to my money...or watch plutocrats steal it in a rigged game.
I’m sure you are right Greg444. It still felt good to have a little rant at a bunch of clock punching petty bureaucrats. Most therapeutic! And at this point what are they going to do if we offend them...slow down progress?
What have they done to earn it?
Contact Commissioner Tom Landwehr MNDNR to express your disgust at glacially slow progress and lack of a completion deadline for permits at:
Tom Landwehr
Commissioner
Minnesota Department of Natural Resources
500 Lafayette Road.
St. Paul, MN 55155
Or email at: commissioner.dnr@state.mn.us
Be polite but firm! And consider a copy to the governor. Let them know they are killing your investment.
Hope you're right, Mrplmer. I wrote this letter today, for what it's worth:
Mr. Jonathan Cherry, CEO
Polymet Mining, Inc.
444 Ceder Street
Suite 2060
St. Paul, MN 55101
9 July, 2018
XXXX XXXXXX
XXXXX XXXXXXX XXXXXX XX XX
XXXXXXX, XX XXXXX
Dear Mr. Cherry:
I am a long-term, loyal Polymet buy and hold investor. I hold about XXX,XXX shares and have been invested in PLM for about 10 frustrating years. I am writing to express a growing concern with the intimate ties between PLM and Glencore.
Given the news of recent allegations and legal actions against Glencore, I am worried about Glencore’s ethics should it make a move to take over PLM. I fear they will not have minority shareholders best interests at heart in such a potential takeover and wonder if even now they are manipulating the price of this thinly traded stock so as to justify a discounted price in a buyout. Please note, I have no evidence to support this speculation and I am making no accusations. I am just expressing a worry based on the tepid response of the stock price in the face of recent good news, like the conclusion of the land swap with the forestry service.
I hope that you as CEO of Polymet Mining will watch out for the best interests of all your shareholders and avoid the temptation to respond only to the interests of the gorilla in the room. Glencore owns such a large proportion of PLM that, if the board members also aligned themselves with Glencore, that coalition could dictate terms of a buyout very unfavorable to small investors like me, to whom your fiduciary responsibility also extends.
In brief, I am pleading that you watch out for the little guy.
Thank you for your attention to my concerns.
Sincerely,
Maybe it will have an impact if several of us send similar letters. More likely, I am spitting in the wind...but it made me feel better to do something!
Ok. I will get mine in the mail by Monday. Please join me.
From your lips to God’s ear, Trumpcard. Assuming God has anything to do with the market...which I doubt!
Plm management standing up against Glencore on behalf of minority shareholders is a worry. I wonder if a letter writing campaign to Jon Cherry would.be effective in encouraging him to look out for us...nothing rude or threatening, just an appeal to conscience. Something like:” I have concerns based on recent news alleging illegal and unethical behavior by Glencore that they might take advantage of minority shareholders in a possible acquisition through such means as price manipulation to justify a low buyout, or other means of acquiring PLM at a discount. I have been a buy and hold investor for over ten years. I hope you will keep my best interests in mind as you bring the mine into production and possibly negotiate a buyout.” Crazy?
That’s about how I see it, goldenager. Glencore has a reputation for being ruthless... allegedly not above bribes, violation of embargoes, etc. Combine this with the cash burn over the past 10 years, the debts, the dilution of shares and what looks like market manipulation to keep price down...my initial dreams of a 10-15x profit have been stomped.
Love to see $12.50...just don’t see it happening. But more power to you if you can win a class action suit! If we see $3-4 I think I’ll end the pain.
I think you are right, Golden Ager. I also think that they will shaft those like me who were dumb enough to hold long. Or Glencore may be happy not to buy, but just collect interest on their loans and take profit on their options when the mine finally produces. I fear that in the end, I would have done better in an S&P500 ETF. You and cawgermany seem to know what you are talking about. At what price would you think about selling?
Does today’s nose-dive reflect a loss of confidence in the ability of Glencore to fund the project given its drop in price, or is it just the deep ties between PLM and the (allegedly) crooked Glencore? I know I would feel a lot better about fair treatment of PLM shareholders if we had a partner with fewer questions about their ethics. Unfortunately, I believe that Glencore plus the board of PLM own over 50% of shares. Wouldn’t that fact make a bidding war unlikely? I know that the fall today is on a very low volume, so hard to read too much into it. Still, down is down.
A few months ago on rumors of land swap, stock reached $1.36. Now with real news of land swap the market yawns. This stock is a mystery.
Thanks. Kind of depressing how far things have come, yet how many hurdles remain. It’s a miracle this country produces anything.
Assuming the 2523 amendment becomes law next week, what other hurdles need to be cleared ? Anyone have a clear idea of a timeline to digging ore?
Motley Fool comments on PLM appears to have crushed the run up.And they got the story wrong. They were unaware of the amendment to the senate bill that will make the disputed land swap a decided matter. This error by an influential source may be a buying opportunity. Does anyone know of any other reason the stock tanked? The collapse of the rally seems to coincide with the 1:30 pm publication time by the Fool.
I probably am crazy! Hope you’re right, and hope it happens soon. V
At what price are you folks going to sell, assuming all permits are approved?im thinking of starting to bail out at about $2.20. Any thoughts?
I like the theory that today’s volume was due to congress members and their relatives and friends buying before the senate votes on land transfer, which makes me optimistic that they feel it will pass. Normally i’d be hacked off at the crooked insider trading, but in this case I’d like to see a few congressmen with substantial positions so they will turn up the heat on permitting.
Commissioner is Tom Landwehr. Email commissioner.dnr@state.mn.us
I emailed the head of the DNR last week to express those sentiments. Might help if he heard from a lot of us.