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Roach58, sorry, it is a JPM SEC filing...
...because they bought the MBS issuing such of WMB.
...and they have the responsibility for such periodic filings.
...which they have done since 2012.
...old and cold theory.
Owned by JPMorgan, as has been previously...
...clearly delineated.
http://investorshub.advfn.com/boards/read_msg.aspx?message_id=116108442
...updated, same JPMorgan officer is the signer.
...to wit, mortgages SOLD into securitization by WMB and subs "DO NOT COME BACK" (especially to WMI/WMIIC, "which never did such").
wowalters, the post was re: WMIH, which is...
...the reorganized debtor.
...it is a public corporation.
...it was capitalized at a value of $200M +- exiting the effective date.
...it didn't have and doesn't have $65B; sooooooooo, it would appear that it can't be 'robbed to a reasonably prudent investor OSM?
Peyton976, consider we're dealing with the BEAST...
...in the hedge funds (not Beauty's coattails).
...it's not assured; but, from their perspective, it makes sense (it's what they do).
...they've got all the CYA in place (3rd party independent consultant, finance committee comprised of the independent directors, etc. "classic).
...and Steven D. Scheiwe is 'joined at the hip with KKR now (QPQ).
...Michael Willingham was already there.
...IMO, if they choose to.
...some of the aspects, activities and calculations.
https://investorshub.advfn.com/boards/read_msg.aspx?message_id=135329298
http://investorshub.advfn.com/boards/read_msg.aspx?message_id=135137999
http://investorshub.advfn.com/boards/read_msg.aspx?message_id=135029833
...nobody else (alternate sources) can really 'fit into the Series B "shoes" prior to the 3-year mark of 1/5/2018; it could wreck the 50% change of control under IRC 382.
...any NEW player (group) would have to have effective dates, IMO, of after this key date.
...the END of the 3-year testing period from the Series B issuance (the shorter of the three choices is the entire 3-year period).
...it could be that KKR, GW and Tepper are doing exactly what they want, wait it out beyond such date (via an alonge or extension 'brief), and DO WHAT THEY DO to MAX stock control with a much reduced conversion rate and potential massive dilution and AVOID the IRC 382 5% additions from the Series B's back 'before the 3-year testing period.
...would be brilliant (and nasty).
...and before or after, a RS to propel the PPS to required levels.
...so, IMO only, we'll see.
What's on the books on June 30, 2017 is not...
...what is the 'book value today, or after consideration of the impairment of the $73M intangible asset related to the Series B.
...today is 10/13/2017.
...there are no financial disclosures for the PERIOD ENDING 10/13/2017, including no current Balance Sheet.
...the balance sheet is 'modified by the FOOTNOTE disclosures re: material items.
...if there was, the FOOTNOTES must be read re: the subject of the RP which was the intangible asset ("Derivative asset - embedded conversion feature," of $73M,).
...i.e., the Balance Sheet amount is, and will be, the recorded value and the FOOTNOTES are the "modifier" of such value; i.e., worth nothing if the M&A isn't done.
...please re-read the informative post re: such.
...TIA.
Basically, book value NOT based on Q-2...
...10Q filing, if not filtered for the scenario that the Series B's do not convert going forward.
...i.e., the intangible asset, the "Derivative asset - embedded conversion feature," of $73M, goes away if we pass the current end date for the SB conversion.
...so, with such understanding, if and after that date passes, the "immediately thereafter" book value would be around $108M for the 206,380 commons outstanding.
...that would put it +- $0.52 PPS @ filtered book value.
...there are also 'costs to cure if the SB's need to be repaid under the terms and conditions of the current agreement.
...that will make more of a negative impact on such book value at such time.
https://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/933136/000156459017016965/wmih-10q_20170630.htm
CWG, the 'reverse split is not that simple...
...due to the preservation of the NOLs under IRC 382 (no, the NOLs are not gone).
...a 'reverse split as you suggested would create increases in holdings of those who are also the top players in the "yet to be seen Series B renegotiated conversion range."
...so, the 5% holders (by value), cannot exceed collectively a change in control threshold.
...however, I do find that (absent a M&A), a reverse split is possible (5-1 or 7-1); but really won't impact most shareholders (really, 5 to 7 shares).
...IMO, it really is about the Series B's.
...at the time of their original announcement, the conversion range MAX was near the PPS with a $0.50 drop to the FLOOR; under the current PPS, and if they are the 'beast, and they walk it down to $0.75 they could proffer a new conversion range of $0.75-$0.25.
...that would be MASSIVE DILUTION; 800,000 TO 2,400,000 of converted shares in that range (to the RD 210,000 outstanding).
Rights Offering - 4M Shares $25...
...from the previous POR's.
...NOT what WMIH ended up doing with 200M Shares (i.e., 200M*$1 is not equal to 200M*$25).
...apples and unicorns.
...from the past (numerous times).
Olti100, I'm 100% sure that will not be...
...the sentiment when the receivership and liquidating trust end.
...100%.
dragoon76, read what? The "P&A?" What is...
...the P&A from your reference to the bankruptcy case or to the banking subsidiary?
...there is something known as the Purchase and Assumption Agreement, generally referred to by reasonably informed investors OSM as the "P&AA."
...that is available on the FDIC-C website and has been SINCE 2008.
...not only read it, but fully comprehend it, don't have issues with the 'wording, or other nuances that are confabulated into billions missing though.
dragoon76, so what is the "P&A" you...
...refer to?
...LOL.
...doesn't appear related to the WMI/WMIIC debtors, WMILT.
...is it the basis for another 'theory of hundreds of billions of hidden secret off balance safe harbor fantasy?
draggon76, what is the "P&A" in such...
...esteemed and erudite understanding of the WMI/WMIIC (i.e., the 'debtors) bankruptcy?
...the court documents are absent such acronym.
...thanks.
mufa, the BIG PICTURE is these theories have...
...all been total nonsense from the 'get go.
...and have ALL FAILED.
...over 5-8 YEARS.
...if the focus in on the next nonsensical fantasy theory, without regard to the 5-8 year realization average of ZERO.
The PLAN to "SELL" WMMRC POR 6, wrong...
...assertion (theory) is totally wrong.
...the PLAN was to leave WMMRC in the reorganized debtor.
...with certain creditors, primarily the PIER with $2,000,000 in holdings, making an election to take WMMRC (as valued by the debtors from Blackstone) instead of cash.
...WHY?
...certainly not, and never mentioned by any party in interest or any of the $1B of professionals, including EQUITY (the wizard of Attorney Suman and the forensic BK expert EC Chair Willingham (after 'routing Joyce and prior EC experienced bankruptcy counsel)) was any mention of any value of WMMRC based on HIDDEN, SECRET ASSETS.
Olti, perhaps you didn't see the red...
...highlighted sentence.
...it explains there is "a range."
...$2.25-$1.75.
...FYI, that is the "same range as the current Series B preferred conversion range.
...here it is again.
...thanks.
Olti, no, the BOD is not stupid...
...nor the Executives of such topic.
...with regard to "their incentive shares."
...first, they 'adjust for splits under the current contract.
...second, if there is a renegotiated Series B conversion rate, it appears (since management is/are they/them) that they will take care of them and renegotiate their incentive shares range to the 'same range.
So it's the BEAST (KKR, GW & T) HEDGIES...
...after all?
...and the word is out?
...I'd rather sea BEAUTY, but that will take a M&A.
...if the BEAST ~
...dilution from a renegotiated Series B conversion range?
...and the possibility of a reverse split 5-1 or 7-1?
http://investorshub.advfn.com/boards/read_msg.aspx?message_id=135029833&txt2find=beast
Johnny, my post was direct links to JPM...
...subsidiaries.
...WMMSC "which is per the current fantasy" the golden cow, was bought by JPM.
...just the fact.
...and I am sorry for the failed escrow fantasies of literally trillions to date.
...every date missed.
...every source wrong.
...this is just the most recent.
...the material in your post support my reference to fact.
...however, as with MORTGAGE-BACKED SECURITIES, the simple process can be explained, referenced and linked; but UNDERSTANDING by all cannot be accomplished.
...such lack of understanding doesn't change the facts.
...just a hint (of course JPM doesn't own $615B of mortgages it 'serviced; um, servicing rights to mortgages SOLD, that it bought from WMB in receivership, as per the P&AA, 'right there in plain site, kinda means that).
...lots of GREAT WORK.
...since 2008, like pounding sand; not $1 above what was disclosed from such.
...GREAT WORK?
...Nope.
...GREAT FANTASY IMAGINATION (over and over and over).
...remember, Capital Loss MUST BE USED by March 2017?
...didn't happen.
...typo.
...or "stock for value?"
...didn't happen.
...cartoon?
...it fits.
Sorry, WMMSC is acquired and owned by JPM...
...and has been since 2008.
...sorry, not "coming back."
...here, take a look.
...detail way below if the link doesn't work.
...note the RED WMMSC.
...sort of like the Capital Losses by March 2017 (didn't happen).
...or the "stock for value exchange" (didn't happen, and won't).
...or the FDIC 'reconciliation, reconciliation, reconciliation (in September of 2014) (didn't happen); IN FACT JPM didn't have to pay BOOK VALUE (again), the GOT PAID $645M! Wowza.
...or escrows GETTING THE NOTICES (mom and pop) from the CA Probate Court (i.e., Deutsche Bank AS TRUSTEE FOR THE $165B MBS OWNERS).
...or the DB Settlement Agreement 'payments to escrows.
...and on, and on, and on.
https://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/19617/000001961713000221/corp10k2012exhibit21.htm
Uncle Bo, simply read the documents...
...as imaged or go the source reference.
...or the indenture agreement.
...it is pretty straight forward.
...the State of Hawaii regulators just released (in August) $14.3M.
...such "goes directly in to the Collateral Account."
...and it can only be used as indicated.
...note "and will be used to pay interest and principal on Second Lien Notes"
...here is the $14.3 from July.
...yes, they did pay some of the $18.3M from corporate cash, but the OP that you posted was that they "find a better use of $18.2M" which obviously is erroneous in reference to the theory that the entire payment was from corporate (WMIH) cash.
...again, clearly to the reasonably prudent investor OSM this is understood.
Uncle Bo, they used RESTRICTED funds...
...of WMMRC.
...that was authorized by the State of Hawaii in July of 2017 (after the June 30, 2017 WMRRC 8K and WMIH 10Q).
...the cash in the Collateral Account (i.e., "held in Trust") can't be used for anything else per the indentures.
ReikoBlack, it's nice to see factual...
...information.
...thanks.
...comments in RED.
EXDIMER, you accurately present the standards'...
...applied accounting and financial reporting for mortgage-backed securities.
...100%.
...however, such professional standards are applied in reality and understood only by the reasonably prudent investor OSM.
...clearly, the Safe Harbor 'life-line is an imaginative creation confabulated as a successor replacement to the previous failed theories that literally have adorned trillions found (hard work, great DD) that really weren't, didn't produce $1, dates came and went.
...again, you accurately present the matter, and the 'notices (like the one's earlier predicted for escrows) for any MBS matter are for the benefit of the owners of the MBS.
...pure, simple matter.
mordicai, depends if were dealing with Beauty's...
...or the Beasts' (in Greywolf, Tepper and KKR) coattails.
...I don't have the answer.
...I will say that KKR's people are 'running the show; and to think just because Gene Davis left (he was overboarded based upon a number of shareholder complaints across companies; he's the KKR 'front or rep) KKR isn't still got the reigns is not realistic.
...so, again in CYA mode possibly, with Steven D. Scheiwe the new Chairman of the Board (as an Independent Director) and head of the Finance Committee (as an Independent Director, which has retained 3rd party finance consultants), it would appear he would act in the best interest under the current Series B arrangement.
...but he might have gotten a quid pro quo as he now sits with Gene Davis on another public board on a Committee with special purposes.
http://investor.versoco.com/2017-09-21-Verso-Corporation-Board-of-Directors-Forms-Strategic-Alternatives-Committee
...he has been on the Verso BOD since 2016 (joining Gene Davis) and it is not even reported on the WMIH BOD website under his BIO (odd, in the least).
Cheds, surprised 9/30/17 QE didn't hold...
...and that's possibly not a very good sign, IMO.
...as previously posted, really would like a M&A at the current Series B terms and conditions (primarily the conversion range of $2.25-$1.75); although this chance is weakening per (1) the signs that the market is sky high and qualified acquisitions are not financially merited, and/or (2) as the time deadline is near the Series B's (mostly heavy hedge funds) know that they can renegotiate the terms (primarily the conversion range)(and it appears that KKR has put in place a CYA against minority shareholder litigation by having WMIH for a special finance committee of independent directors, which has retained 3rd party finance funding consultants).
...again, the hedge funds are not our friends, and current coattails can be made much, much smaller via dilution (and or a reverse split either before or after the renegotiated conversion range is announced; if it gets done).
...currently, here a down and dirty look at the dilution at various levels (for simplicity, current outstanding commons 210M shares), haven't checked quick calcs amidst traveling.
Glad I could help understand...
...the Covered Bond Program of WMB.
...assets and liabilities assumed by JPM, fully documented and disclosed.
...comments in RED.
****** used to replace certain "language."
Now the COVERED BONDS are 'coming back...
...YIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIKES.
...the assets and liabilities were assumed by JPM.
...fully disclosed.
...YIKES.
FDIC-R Theory Failures, but alt-read fantasy...
...theories abound, after the ice-challenge cold bucket reality of the FDIC-R UPDATE (as was predicted).
...as such is expected.
...the reality of the mediated settlement in DECEMBER OF 2011, fully disclosed, include NONE OF THE FOLLOWING:
- - - book value of WMB still to be paid by JPM. Didn't happen and will not; simple failure to understand the documents and disclosures, audited JPM financials and SEC filings, and all other court documents.
- - - cash accounts that were missing, and would be found and paid back. Didn't happen and will not; simple imagination (at best)
that the entire collective of the parties in interest (adversaries until the GSA) MISSED CASH!!!!!!
- - - mortgages sold via securitization over the LIFE of WMB (and subs) "would ultimately be paid for AGAIN" (envelope for the $165B @ JPM off balance, $165B @ FDIC off balance, $151B @ FDIC off balance, ALL TO BE RESOLVED WHEN THE DEUTSCHE BANK CASE (UMMMM, date of filing of that)
FINALLY RETURNS THE MBS TO THE FDIC AND/OR THE FORMER SHAREHOLDER OF THE PARENT OF THE SEIZED FAILED BANK. Didn't happen and will not; simple lack of understanding of the fact that mortgages pooled and sold into securitized trusts (i.e., MBS) are recorded as sales and a removal of the loan from the books; with some retained interests (depending on GRADE, investment assets or trading assets of WMB; which was seized and sold) and servicing rights (also seized and sold).
- - - WMI's status as a creditor of the FDIC-R would result in funds paid back along with other creditors. [color=red][color=red][color=red]Didn't happen and, as has been revealed with the FDIC-R recent descriptive narrative, NO SUCH CREDIT CLAIM EVEN EXISTS!!!!
...so, what do the actual results mean since DECEMBER 2011?
- - - well, to a reasonably prudent investor OSM, such is nothing new as SUCH WAS NEVER PROMISED (in fact, never, ever even mentioned by any of the parties in interest or in the concluding documents, mentioned by the Liquidating Trust, or in actions of Deutsche Bank in several courts, JPM actions, FDIC settlement agreements, etc.
...WHY?
...simple, simply imagined fantasies without any sound ground, that regardless of the fatigue of demonstrative 100% failure to materialize $1 even, are always reconstituted BY THE FAILURE as "PROOF" that the new theory birth "is the one."
...look for LIBOR, "unlikely," "other parties," word references to the FDIC-R update as "proof positive" of such.
...and, on a continuum, the confabulation of comparisons to Kmart, that Brian Rosen "really took care of us," and that JMW "really to care of us," Mike Willingham only bought commons (some assert he bought them 'just before the final plan LOL) because 'he knew all along about the tens, hundreds of billions, trillions cumulatively, would come back, WILL ALL CONTINUE.
...the "gavels" have been pounding down ever since the confirmation of the plan; the confirmation order of the disclosed plan has not changed, and WMI/WMIIC/WMILT has not been a party in interest IN ANY RELATED ACTION as plaintiff for $1 of fund recovery over disclosed pertinent matters.
Uptick, IMO, it is "confirmation bias," and is...
...quite well known and understood.
...one 'sees what they want to see.
...to wit, as applied:
...the FDIC takes a phone call, the "process" is confirmed (although the FDIC knows nothing of the asserted theoretical process in which tens to hundred of billions are secret, hidden, off balance, or in safe harbor).
...but in reality from their perspective it is only the FDIC process of simply updating the receivership for the results of the Settlement Agreements by the FDIC with Deutsche Bank (as TRUSTEE FOR THE OWNERS OF THE TRUSTS) and JPMorgan Chase (to 'reconcile or close out the P&AA with a $645M payment).
...then the FDIC returns an email, literally saying nothing more, and such is confirmation bias compounded, IMO.
...although I do credit the effort immensely, it would have been really great to bullet point the secret, hidden dollars and ask about their validity rather than impart re: the journey in perspective story on investing in the holding company of the failed bank.
Johnny, PLEASE, the FDIC confirmed nothing...
...per the theories (and the 'process).
...merely that there would be 'updates.
...which is obvious; recording the claims payments to the DB Trusts and the Senior WMB bondholders (and some small GUC claims) or alternately disclosing a narrative outlining that such will be done.
EXDIMER, FDIC-R Update not really news...
...as we both know.
...based upon the recent authorization of the Settlement Agreement with Deutsche Bank (as TRUSTEE for the $165B MBS TRUSTS) for receivership GUC amount of $3,006,929,660 (cash value with the other small GUC's and the Sr. Bondholders parri passu converted to cash payment of $697,206,149 for the TRUSTS) and the balance of the receivership assets to the other small GUC's and Sr. Bondholders.
...after the $7M administrative costs of the FDIC-R.
...and the JPM "reconciliation of the P&AA" via PAYMENT TO JPM of $645M.
...so, clearly, the FDIC-R can now RECORD SUCH TRANSACTIONS and adjust the receivership financial presentation to reflect such.
...THAT IS WHAT THE FDIC WILL BE UPDATING.
...zip, nada, nothing to do with WMI, WMIIC, WMILT, or the former shareholders of the former holding company of WMB.
...and they are busy in FL.
...it's a secret (IRMA).
https://www.fdic.gov/news/news/financial/2017/fil17043.html
Upperlippy, the facts are what they are...
...and I' m glad to help.
Reiko, I don't think you'll be getting...
...that explanation as to how a subsidiary with no assets that is eliminated on consolidation 'really has tens to hundreds of billions of hidden, secret, off balance, safe harbor assets.
...I guess all of the professionals, credentialed, that actually 'worked the case (and didn't just start reading about it) must have MISSED IT?
intuitive3, it is patently incorrect, here...
...just look at the 'core errors in the FDIC-R priority classes with regard to the Primary Trusts (i.e., the Deutsche Bank Trustee approved Settlement Agreement by the CA Probate Court and the Expert Witness reports).
...which has NOTHING TO DO WITH WMI/WMIIC/WMILT CLASSES.
SGB, can't lose anything re: escrows...
...on the $50M-$75M or less obvious conclusion from the WMILT disclosures (which appropriately exclude any chimerical consideration of off balance, safe harbor, or mortgage backed securities owners/investors have to pay again for the seccurities).
...the WMILT, IF IF IF there is even that much left, and distributes to escrows, that is NOT A LOSS (especially to an unrelated investor appropriately exiting upon reading and understanding the mediated settlement that was incredulously labeled fair and reasonable).
hotmeat, not the subject of the original post...
...and of NO INTEREST to re-explain such which was debated and detailed 5-8 years running.
...a reading of the KCCLLC court docket will explain it all (especially the concluding documents that disclose all such that were meritorious to identify and argue and exclude every fantasy-based theories of hundreds of billions that have been found since the Effective Date).
...understanding of such would be enhanced by the consultation with a credentialed professional, IMO.
...again, in asserting $25B is "COMING BACK," what is the source, what is the date.
...please, no MBS are really still owned (after being sold via securitization) by WMI, WMIIC, WMILT, the FDIC R, C, JPM, Deutsche Bank blah blah (just silly, and sad) and are off balance, safe harbor, Iron Mountain, under train tracks etc.
...please no JPM to pay BOOK VALUE; it appears that JPM is BEING PAID $645M to close out the P&AA.
...so, where is the $25B?
...where is the R-45 with the Capital Loss that HAD TO BE USED BY MARCH 2017 TO MEET THE 5-YEAR RULE?
...where are the mortgages in the Deutsche Bank Trusts $165B that, after the California Probate Court action, will COME BACK TO ESCROWS?
...were are the NOTICES TO ESCROWS by the California Probate Court Judge for the "mom and pop" investors?
...again, the $25B?
hotmeat, the subject NEVER STATED SUCH...
...here, take a look.