Hey everyone

Check out TVIX :) I'm buying more CTS after I cash out of these - - - believe CTS will rebound back to $.40/share early next year come next distribution.

It would seems so - lol

Too bad guster0 isn't here with us anymore... We should all light an extra fat "I-told-you-so!" candle to commemorate him as we hold hands in a circle (Joe can stand in the center with robe and scepter in hand), slowly chanting to the vulture gods to enhance our strength and solidarity that payment to CTS will come next April, 2015.

:) Cheers

Going back to sleep

Eww...

So we should expect a sharp decline in PPS today after this distribution notification, huh Joe?

Back to $0.1-$0.2/share for CTS or is that too optimistic?

That's interesting,

So they estimated recovery at 21.1%... Did you first agree to 21.1% but finally got 26% which closed out any further payment obligations to you?

Why didnt they stop at 21.1% and why did they stop at 26% percent recovery?

Thanks

So are you still qualified to receive any additional recoveries

Above and beyond what you settled for?

That is, did these senior unsecured claims agree to 26% recovery "now" with the understanding that if incremental recoveries were somehow generated (by whatever means) in the future, they would be further distributed to push recovery percentages above 26%?

Some metrics like PPS

Aren't meant to be examined point-in-time (like a balance sheet), but rather over a period-of-time (like an income statement)...

Saying a stock's price is $.50/share for example is rather meaningless as it relates to this debate. What was the stock's trend (over a period of time) is more pertinent. For example, CTS was less than $.1/share two years ago, but the current PPS had trended upward and is holding fairly steady at ~$.4/share, occasionally pushing over $.5/share testing 4-year highs...

Based on such a description of price trend, even with no news (setting aside the DD performed by member on this boad), is the outlook positive or negative?

I'd go with positive...

Hey Cotton

Thanks for your efforts - let's keep fingers crossed and see what tidings October brings to CTS.

Have a nice weekend.

Or perhaps this is the beloved Investment vehicle

That was hinted at in the Aug 22 motion and recently approved by Judge Chapman 8^O

Lol

More irony

Alibaba set to open momentarily with 220 billion market cap...close to the reported negative equity (L>A) Lehman Brothers is currently facing as of last reported balance sheet.

Alibaba = biggest IPO in Wall Street history
LEH = biggest financial crater in Wall Street history

Jack Ma and Dick Fuld should get together this weekend and have brunch... Love to catch that Kodak moment with my iPhone.

That why I feel

We're in a tricky spot. Based on the prospectus, we can take possession of the subordinated note (I.e. Class 10B?) because LBHI has thus far not made full payment of principal to fulfill executory contract...but what's that worth to us on the open market? (I'd guess approximately 2% of face value that is roughly $0.5/CTs share which is where we're trading at currently)

I also feel uneasy about this clause(s) about tax liabilities in the prospectus - that we may required to pay capital gain taxes on deferred interest before receiving any distribution if one were to be made...what the heck is that all about?

Yeah, I know

Just teasing Joe...

Cheers to you 2good - let's get some action going!

(So quiet - Perhaps everyone is waiting to see what happens with the Alibaba IPO, maybe they will to get deeper into banking services using AliPAY and purchase our LOLs, I mean NOLs)

I am curious, Joe

As to why your last consecutive 100+ posts over 18 days have all been targeted to enlightening us on this board... I mean, you're awfully nice devoting so much time in leading us out of the woods.

My inquisitive sarcasm doesn't mean that your assessment of the situation is wrong or that you're getting paid by diabolical hedgies to stir unrest in our utopia - just wondering why the focused attention here and now. My guess leans toward you having a savior/god complex which I portrayed in a previous post, which is cool and all if that's the case. Anyway, when you're done creating planets, oceans, and mountains this weekend, would enjoy gaining more perspective on this matter...

Kind regards

:) Brother Joe and Sister Daisy...

Nah...I'm still rooting for a massive October payment. Frankly, we all deserve it, especially Cotton. Plus I want to move onto OBS during my lifetime.

Agreed, if October comes and goes

With no payment to CTS it's not a good sign as I've stated before.

However we do have a countermeasure that you're forgetting, Joe. We can always initiate "operation pump monkey" and drive this up to $2/share so that we can unload our holdings to unwary retail speculators, letting them carry the bag for the rest of the journey beyond 2018...

So should we all

Sell to you now or wait until after October 2 - lol

Have a nice weekend Joe

I just read through the prospectus

What page was the mandatory default event defined please? This is critical because I'm under the impression now that as long as the underlying subordinated debentures (10B?) that were placed into the preferred trusts are in default, which I believe they are, and LBHI has no available monies to pay, which is apparently what LBHI has been claiming, capital trusts should not expect any payments and the interest deferrals can go on until 2054...

If the prospectus is in effect, we'll need to have one of the following happen to get payment:

1. Some payment needs to be made to class 10B in which case CTS will get their share

2. Enforcement of this "mandatory default event" (kindly reference page number in prospectus) that violates executory contract as you've stated. I'm still fuzy about this one...

* I personally don't see the need for LBHI to make full or partial redemptions on CTS or even interest payments (just keep deferring as long as 10B is entirely in default and there's "no cash available" per POR)

** this October 2 distribution is a vital moment of truth for CTS...if certain class 3-9 claims keep extending their recoveries when they should have been paid and/or satisfied in full without class 10B receiving a single penny, there a lot more waiting around for an eventual fruitless ending imo.. Important to monitor the recovery amounts by class, from last distribution to this upcoming one...

*** Also, if the stay is lifted, if there are no legal actions taken by the trustee to have LBHI perform the so-called executory contract that was triggered by mandatory default event, this doesn't look good especially if class 10 continues fall short of getting any love.

For those of you that have not done so...I recommend that you read the prospectus (link at the top of the LEHNQ board which you may have "hidden" to avoid it popping up each time the overview of post is loaded)

Gita

Looking over this post again

Gives the impression of a soft/medium bash toward new buyers (I guess it is...)

But simultaneously, and more importantly, it's a friendly reminder NOT to sell your existing long-held shares if they try to dunk the PPS... the immediate risks of something catastrophic happening to CTS are next to none. So an unexplainable and exaggerated drop of the PPS, even to less than $0.05/share for argument's sake, mandates that we HOLD -- imo, imo, imo

Hmm...

You say "wish it would hurry and go to 0"... Ironically, that may not be a bad sign if it were to happen over the next 10 days just before October 2 distribution date. It might indicate that the cutoff date for holders on record was actually Aug 23 and a full redemption with all past interest due is about to TSUNAMI us...

Kinda like when the ocean shoreline suddenly recedes 1 mile just before a mega wave is about to hit. Continuing the analogy, you don't want to be the naive bystanders (new CTS buyers) who go happily collecting the flopping fish (worthless shares) that washed ashore... because... TIDAL WAAAAAVE!!!

Hmm...

You say "wish it would hurry and go to 0"... Ironically, that may not be a bad sign if it were to happen over the next 10 days just before October 2 distribution date. It might indicate that the cutoff date for holders on record was actually Aug 23 and a full redemption with all past interest due is about to TSUNAMI us...

Kinda like when the ocean shoreline suddenly recedes 1 mile just before a mega wave is about to hit. Continuing the analogy, you don't want to be the naive bystanders (new CTS buyers) who go happily collecting the flopping fish (worthless shares) that washed ashore... because... TIDAL WAAAAAVE!!!

This is all too complicated imo for Adam...try this instead

----------------

Dear Adam,

I have 250,000 shares of Lehman CTS (tickers: lehkq, lehnq, lehlq, lhhmq)

If you and your buddies at Weil make payment to these CTS, I'll split the proceeds with you... I swear.

(Attach photo of yourself doing Cub Scout pledge)

Kind regards,
XXXXXXX

Borrow billions, make several quarterly interest payments (probably using principal), declare

bankruptcy, conduct fire sale like a 3-card-monte pro, and when the dust settles, everyone agrees to act stupid pointing in a circular fashion saying "he went that way" to shed repayment responsibilities...

Sounds like a large-scale legalized pyramid scheme by Wall Street bankers - lol

Glta - October here we come, keep your fingers crossed...!

Interesting

So JPM is indirectly in our corner. Maybe it's a good thing JPM is withholding the monies until CTS claims are resolved...

CTS trustee should sue JPM as co-debtor and JPM should then plea no contest and pay the money to us. Lehman can continue to sue for the money but JPM then simply need to point to us saying "we already paid the folks that were owed the money on your behalf, if you have a problem with it, talk to BNYM - they will provide the list of 102,721 individuals and institutions you're welcome to track down and sue... Thank you very much and have a nice day"

Hello to my new 4 followers :) xoxo

Anyone here on the west coast (USA)?

Sucks the markets start at 6:30 in the morning for me :(

Also, when I get off work ready to chat it seems everyone here is asleep :(

It might make sense

To review closely the recovery schedule post Oct 2 payments - to see who got what and how much. If it becomes clear the assumption that higher priority claims that should have been satisfied in full are in fact headed toward paid in full before CTS get anything, it may necessary for CTS holders to take action...

What those actions may be, not sure lol. I offered my 2 cents on aggregating shares and approaching on of the higher ups or hedgies to purchase them but clearly Argus doesn't like the idea... Heheh

8% of $1.3 billion face value is insignificant in your eyes?

What planet are you from?

Cotton, did you have chance to confer with Joe

before making this filing?

I'm concerned he's drafting a rebuttal to your arguments as we speak and could be filing it with epiq later today!


[Joe: sitting in front of his notebook, pounding away on the keyboard]

"Dear Honorable Judge Chapman:

It saddens me that someone in my flock on InvestorsHub has fallen out of rank and submitted to your court a shameful attempt to make a personal "vulture-istic" return on their Lehman capital trust investment after I specifically showed this individual the divine truth that there is no hope for this obsoleted trade instrument. I'm bewildered by the growing disloyalty that stems from the ignorance caused by this outcast and ask for you simply to disregard the obvious cry for attention exhibited by this hopeless soul.

Fortunately, the years of cultivating my fellowship, which now exceeds 200 devout iHub members, gives me some comfort that such rebellious acts are few and far between. I do apologize for this disruption in the normal chain of command and appeal to your grace's forgiveness. Feel free to simply place this court filing made by this black sheep named "cottonisking" into your mental circular file, as if it never happened. Rest assured, I will continue to preach my gospel with greater conviction now on lehnq message board to ensure that other non-believers don't meander down the path of confusion to you doorstep in the future.

Kind regards,
Joe$tocks - aka Investment Messiah"

[Joe: proof reading his own draft, sipping his earl grey tea, nods his head in approval...]

A suggestion to the mega CTS shareholders on the board

If October comes and goes with CTS receiving no form of distribution, while creditors who are supposed to be satisfied in full continue to receive additional recoveries, it might be interesting to aggregate your shared interest in the CTS allowed claims, bundling them together, for sale to a hedge fund or institutional investor that can work the "judicial ropes."

For example, if let's say 10 of you guys can muster 4 million shares of CTS together - with allowed claims of $100,000,000 face value (excluding accrued interest in this simple example), maybe one of the hedgies that has been flaunting their super returns in the media would offer 20 cents on the dollar for the bundled group (at $5 per CTS share), which might be a reasonable investment for them considering multiple billions of unsecured claims are being purchased just recently for 40 cents on the dollar. (The 80/20 Pareto is a good starting offer imo, leaving some on the table, whatever that amount might be, allows them to pay their attorneys and entice them to bite). Heck, you guys could even approach LBHI and negotiate a settlement that retires the whole lot at say 17% recovery.

Obviously, the size of any CTS bundle needs to be attractive enough to catch the eye of one of the big boys or the Lehman estate. I'm unlikely the one to magnetize other CTS holders with my earthshaking ~6,000 shares, but I have a feeling posters and lurkers here could collectively approach an influential hedgy of distressed assets with something pretty impressive. And once the major CTS holders on this board form a "consortium", other smaller fish like me could follow, lending a bit more weight.

Btw, I don't feel getting wannabe attorneys involved in the bk proceeding has much value; I'm a believer of if you can't beat them, join them :)

Would people care to throw out their CTS share counts? As stated already, I have roughly 6k shares of lhhmq and lehlq.

Cheers,
Daisy

P.S. Still hopeful for an October payment (hopefully resolution) to CTS holders... Then we can get to OBS holders in 2015!
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"OUT OF MY WAY YOU INFIDEL! -- LOL"

Sent from my iPad

Oh don't be a party pooper, Joe

Grab a party favorite and glass of champagne to celebrate 6 years of record-breaking bankruptcy proceedings!

"Shake your booty...Shake your booty...boom boom boom...Shake your booty!"

Oh don't be a party pooper, Joe

Grab a party favorite and glass of champagne to celebrate 6 years of record-breaking bankruptcy proceedings!

"Shake your booty...Shake your booty...boom boom boom...Shake your booty!"

Happy Birthday!!! errrr...

I mean Happy Anniversary!!!

Celebrating 6 wonderful years!

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bankruptcy_of_Lehman_Brothers
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I bet A&M and WGM are passing out balloons and party favorites to employees today - champagne for everyone!

:)

Glta, our day in the sun is coming!

Very nice...

So it was as good for you

as it was for me then... I serve to please ;)

Cooperative fella you are in fielding my questions... Thanks

I'll push my luck and shoot another question your direction.

The Lehman estate distributed just this week an unexpected (I.e. once thought to be improbable) and incremental distribution to general unsecured creditors - about $3 billion USD - which ain't too shabby in my book...

If the recipients of this unexpected distribution (representing 17% of their allowed claims with more recoveries now expected to come) were to have asked your "clairvoyant" legal adviser 6-12 months ago if they would have been getting this distribution now, what do you think your $500/hr attorney would have said?
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Yeah....I thought so....

I have two questions for you, Joe...

How confident are you that the PPS for CTS (lehnq, lehkq, lehlq, and lhhmq) will NOT rise to set higher 52 week highs, even pass $1 per share, before the LEH bankruptcy hoopla finally concludes in, let's say, 2018?

Do you feel the mystical legal advisor can or would be willing to factor in this pertinent consideration in their precious 2 hours they would spend with us assuming they would even budge to accept a $1,000 pittance?

Hmmm...

That would be another $1,000 less to purchase ~2,500 shares of CTS wouldn't it, Joe? Nice.... :)

J/K - please don't ask me any real questions relating to the POR, prospectus, or other court documents -- I foolishly trade on gut feelings and tea leaf readings :)

This post isn't directed at you Joyce

It's a pep talk to the oldies on the board -- don't let the Joes of the world get us down, especially now with positive trends happening and relatively little risk for existing holders (I.e. Estate isn't saying there's no money left and remaining debt will be discharged before year's end, quite the opposite!) -- imo.

P.S. Caveat emptor to new buyers of CTS (any payments to CTS on or before October 2, 2014 will have a cut off date for holders on record on or before Aug 23) -- imo

P.P.S. The current vague or no responses from debtors or PR liasons to our email and phone inquiries may indicate something is pending... Any such disclosure, full or partial, could have serious liabilities from a insider trading perspective (note I've received no or very guarded responses to my inquiries regarding CTS) -- imo

All in my opinion --- heheh

Why the skeptism and gloominess now?

Things are improving:

1. Lehman estate is upbeat and paying general unsecured creditors for the first time in 6 years with more to come (it's complete BS to say these positive announcements are merely an insidious mockery that actually diverts money to higher ups as usual...complete BS and don't be tricked.)

2. The big attorneys (A&M) managing the estate are suggesting the liqudiation and managment activities will extend to 2018+! It's counterintuitive imo... Having such vampiric leeches clinging to Lehman is a good thing! These extended estimates involving their continued presence indicate that the FLOW of MOOLA will continue to be substantial, justifying the ~$350M a year legal expenses that are being incurred by the estate. If the attorneys make $1.5 billion over the next 4-5 years, how much do you feel the creditors will be making? Tens of billions for sure --- at least another $40 billion in total imo. This dough will make its way to certain priority claims that need to be paid in full but also to new unsecured creditors like us that having been waiting long and hard...maybe even OBS :) hehehh

3. CTS claims are AT LEAST still visible in the court's eye if not being discussed/resolved as we speak; evidenced by the recent motion for "investments". Some will say that the exhibit C highlighting CTS claims are irrelevant... Realllly?? Come ooooon... Let's just tack on irrelevant sheat involving hundred of millions (even billions) of bucks onto court motions because it's Fuuuuun...BS!

4. The PPS is at $0.5/share -- *sniff*sniff* boohoo* the price per share for CTS are only a measly 10 TIMES high than where they were 2-3 years ago, sitting near and just recently testing 52 week highs (actually 4 year highs)... *sniff*sniff* boohoo ---- Oh shut up you cry babies! heheh j/k :)

Executive summary: If you were patient for the last several years, holding... and holding... and holding and now you have this weird urge to sell....I say.... SUCK IT UP AND HAVE THE COURAGE TO CROSS THE FINISH LINE OF THIS HISTORIC BK MARATHON!

October 2014 --- here we come! Show us the money!! :)

I'm happy with how things are developing

If you guys were expecting a sep payment, I can imagine that an itchy burning sensation is starting to build.

Wait until October to see how the normally scheduled distribution pans out along with how this court ordered motion approving "Investments" unfolds. As mentioned before, I WOULD start to worry if the higher debt classes that should be now satisfied in full continue to see more recoveries without classes 10 A,B,C receiving a single dime by mid/late October. Otherwise, CTS will start getting paid soon along with the other general unsecured creditors imo --- *** 10 billion bucks worth of class 10B claims aren't your average retail investors and they aren't just going to sit around twiddling their fingers as new & unexpected additional recoveries make their way to all other non-secured and lower priority creditors except them... Imo, Class 10B creditors are probably willing and able to deploy competent legal resources to claw back what they are owed from a debtor that is currently sending loud and growing signals to the market that the fat lady hasn't even begun to sing... More to come!!

I will be there if/when positive OBS news hits in 2015/2016...hope you all are there with me to celebrate! :)

My apologies, a member "sidedraft"

Cut and pasted a link with your name on it on the lehnq board. Got confused and thought you made a post on the lehnq board when following the thread... :)