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I wonder if they track miles driven on gas sales. If so, that could be misleading like retail sales since prices are so inflated. Actual revenue could be up, with volumes down. Sad, that they knew this was going to happen and actually wanted it to so that people would change thier behavior. Problem is people cannot afford the change at 60K+ for an EV and with range limitations. Also, the grid cannot handle the EV demands if everyone drove an EV. I guess they want everyone to live in tight cluster high rises and to share ride. Seems that is the direction they are going because people will not be able to afford anything, and we will become rental society and take mass transit, bike or walk. I guess it is easier to control a closed in group like they have in Shanghai.
So, Plug and Bloom both the same price now. Just wondering how shareholders will be compensated for the revenue Plug receives from the Hyvia deal? Will there be a special dividend each quarter based on revenues?
Could just be another supplier. They look like a small startup from what little I could find.
https://www.statista.com/statistics/274937/market-share-of-truck-manufacturers-in-the-united-states/
Seems 3 companies own most all the US market so doubtful we could buy any of these. Better to partner to supply FC, H2, pumps and make money while not taking a huge risk since we don't know this business. That way we save capital and reduce risk. Just my opinion.
I just do not see it happening. Next door and they don't even but FC's from us or work with us to supply Green H2. I think we are looking for partners that we will supply both and have experience building class 8 trucks.
At 67 I just have to hope I live long enough and in somewhat goof health to enjoy it and male family history has me on borrowed time. Hoping my running keeps me vertical or at least my grandkids can enjoy it.
I do not doubt at all what he says about market manipulators. I just wish I knew before these things happen instead of being part of the train wreck.
Read more about it and it will be a combo deal with a battery and FC added as an extended. The FC version is not expected until 2030. That makes sense in a way since it will take that long to build out the stations and a supply of green H2 along with distribution. As usual I buy stocks that are years away from breaking out. I wish I were 20-30 years younger.
I guess what's taking so long with this $8 Billion dollar spend is that all parties must pony up before getting access. Hate to be cynical, but that seems to be the way government works. Hoping they do not put up the same type roadblocks that they do for nuclear plants creating years of time delays and extra cost overruns in the billions.
Lowes has a distribution center there so that is a possibility. This is in NW Ga. near I-75
I did not say that. Bloom's customers use Natural Gas is what I said to produce H2 and run their fuel cells. The end customer pays for the Natural gas is what I said. This is the difference between Bloom and Plug besides one is Solid Oxide and the other PEM.
My agenda is the truth and open debate. BTW this is my 3rd and last post for today. Yes, I own both stocks and see that both serve the market with different product designs. Both make Fuel Cells that are different designs that basically use natural gas to make H2. Plug current supplies the Natural Gas and pays for it while Bloom does not supply it and the end customer pays for it. Please correct me if I am wrong or misstating this to where you are not comprehending it.
My main agenda is to make money. I have owned Plug since before it sank to under a buck and saw it go to $75. I have seen Marsh tell us there was no need for funds and the next day there is an offering a few times. I have heard him tout this and that and it never happen. I have seen his outrageous pay packages and stock sales. So, excuse me if I demand more from a CEO.
While that is a start how much of the overall H2 demand will that replace? How much of just what Walmart uses now will that replace since they are only getting part of it? How much of the total amount of H2 that Plug uses will that replace? Will our demand for H2 outstrip the Green H2 production?
As for Bloom they have no green H2. All is using nat. gas that the client pays for upon delivery of their fuel cells. My guess is that if their customers demand it they will get in that market also.
You apparently are not comprehending what many are saying and denying the facts. First oil and Nat. gas prices are tied together and have gone up since the election. You cannot deny that unless you have been asleep the last 2 years. Now if you want to debate the reasons, I might site a few.
1)During covid demand was down and some production cut back
2)After Covid bans were lifted demand increased as they knew it was and supplies were not enough
3)The pipeline was stopped
4)Leases in National Parks and in Alaska taken away
5)Laws passed by Trump making it easier to drill rescinded by Biden
6)The administration wanted higher gas prices to force change to green energy.
I'm thinking BE 's stock price passes PLUG this quarter as BE's customer eat the increased Nat. Gas cost upon delivery of their product while PLUG has been paying for all of theirs. This should make Bloom closer to BE than Plug. I realize both have their advantages in product design and I own both. Seems they have the backup power and data center markets and have a huge backlog. Notice we do not discuss backlog anymore. I remember when Andy had the MSFT guy on the panel pushing the data center market like we were about to do something with them, and Andy was shot down big time. MSFT said we were in no way ready and apparently still not. Still waiting on those 10 class 8 truck deals they were working on and those pedestal customers. Seems the only way we are gaining revenue is by buying companies lately. Heck, Hyvia won't have much of anything until 2023 and start small. Yes, you just wait until 2030 though!
Since oil and gas are tied together as a source of energy as 50% of Oil wells also produce natural gas and we live in a global market any changes in laws, transportation, leases etc. that makes it more costly or stifles production raises cost. You are the one that raised the same left wing talking point on leases, not me buddy. They all knew that once the economy got going that demand for oil and gas would increase and instead of getting production up they put roadblocks in their way. There is no doubt this administration wants higher gas and oil to go up to push the green agenda. They don't even deny it. Prices will only come down once demand is killed by a recession or worse happens. If this administration was smart they would try and work with the industry and try and balance price with increased supply. A business does not want to spend billions of drilling programs that are delayed forever and that may not pay for itself. That is why you cannot just change over night.
Yes, closing down that started things off. Many productive leases in Alaska where known reserve are known were just taken off. Federal land drilling not allowed. Many of the current leases have no oil or gas or are not economical to drill. You are just using the lefts talking points. Since Oil and gas receive subsidies also giving them to EV and H2 would be more like leveling the field.
Well, for one they stopped the pipeline right when they entered office. Two, they have increased regulation on the industry. Three, they decreased leases. This set the stage with the economy coming back online for the huge price increases. Of course, this is part of the green agenda as it was under Obama. The idea then and know was to increase the cost of carbon and force people to make changes to alternatives. Problem is this has to be planned and over time to transition with major disruptions like we are suffering with now. It hurts the masses that cannot afford a 60k+ car nor gas for the clunker they have. This is what happens when the Government versus society picks the winners. I think all of the above method with subsidies for H2 and EV's is a better choice and creates less suffering. Granted I do not buy the line we have 10 years or less to live due to pollution. More likely a proxy war by this administration and congress.
So why put on Tariffs? Would this force these plants to use Green H2? Would this increase the cost of things we use and cause more inflation at home? Not sure they look at the big picture when making decisions and have any clue to cause and effect. Seems their decision are myopic at best.
The issue I have is that we are already spread very thin and that resources may be better used to create Green H2. I'd rather see us with a deep pocket partner do the class 8 trucking and we provide the fuel cells and green h2. I had thought we had a deal with (was it Chevron ?) to do something, but not heard anything yet. I was hoping to see a buildout of stations at Truck stops on major highways. Until then it is a chicken and egg issue. It would be nice to see a larger group build this out to mitigate risk and use of capital.
How do you figure current inflation has little impact? If you look at Nat. Gas and labor cost, it has a very big impact short term. Long term I expect Nat. Gas cost at some point decrease, but who knows when? With Biden in office and refusing to push for increased supply it could last 3 years until he's out and we have an administration once again with an all of the above strategy. Labor will not likely come down unless we have a severe recession and layoffs. I guess the geniuses' running things did not know that you need Nat. Gas for fuel cells until Green H2 could replace it and that will be years away.
Earned it? Here's a list. Tell me why he's worth 10% of last year's revenues? https://www.business.org/finance/accounting/hourly-wages-ceo-vs-employees/
Shareholders are paying for these obscene packages because they reflect on lower earnings or in our case lack of them. The 2-member compensation board needs to go! Compensation needs to be compared to other company's CEO's in the same business.
As for buying a truck company why? We do not even have the Green H2 for customers and there is no infrastructure yet. Makes more sense to add an electrolyser company in Europe that can help with the huge supply needed in the next 7 years. Bugs me the huge Utah deal went to a foreign company, Mitsubishi, when I thought these Hub deals were for American companies.
I'm sure it will fluctuate with demand. At least we are at the selling end of the transaction. Just hunkering down and waiting out the storm. Again, glad I have life insurance to buy time for the family just in case to buy a few more years. Just hoping in 2025 when Andy brings in $3 Billion of revenue, he's not spending $4 Billion.
Don't really see this picture changing much in 2022. I guess the left did not consider that driving up Nat. gas prices would cause H2 prices to increase also. As the market increases for H2 then the need for Nat. gas will also increase thus prices will stay high and those thinking we will need less answer me this. If they are using a portion for themselves, holding back a portion and then giving the rest to Walmart for now how much Nat. gas are we really needing less of? Considering our business is almost doubling annually it seems to me the need for Nat. Gas will outpace our ability to replace it.
I have issues with Andy. First, morally the increase in compensation was just wrong. No one in their right mind thinks he deserves a package worth 10% of revenues, especially when the stock is down 70% off the high and he's gifting the natural gas price increases to Walmart and Amazon. The only ones screwed is us. He also mentions things as teasers and then we never hear about them again. So, on one hand he's secretive on deal amounts and yet teases big deals. Sorry, can't have it both ways.
Too bad we cannot ask questions like how come the compensation committee gave Andy a raise to 10% of revenue for a pay package and does he feel that is morally right to accept it knowing the stock has tanked since it hit $75 and he has previously cashed in on the rise while most of the shareholders are underwater 50-70%. Sure, there are a few left that bought early as I did, but then I stupidly bought more and stupidly held on and watched it go up and down and back again. I do not blame them for my choice, but I do for theirs.
You do realize we are eating the increased cost of Nat. Gas as per Andy. That is because Amazon and Walmart apparently have no money or told them they would switch to an alternative like battery powered lift trucks. So, expenses will be obscene again.
Bloom tanked due to cost temporarily up some supply chain issues and services. Bloom does not pay for the Nat. gas, their customers do. They will do over 1 billion and have a 2 billion backlog. They still claim profits in 2022. Like Plus this is their slow quarter. Interesting checking their web site we have many of the same providers. They are pushing clean gas and stopping any methane issues. They believe Nat. Gas is for now the way to go. Looking at more a today tech versus the future. Most likely a place for both with Nat. Gas as a bridge for now until Green H2 builds out.
Just saw this. If true it will be another gamechanger. https://www.pv-magazine.com/2022/05/02/us-startup-claims-hydrogen-output-for-0-85-kg-or-less-via-new-water-vapor-electrolyzer/
Andy should take his $52 million and buy PLUG stock in the open market is what he should do. That is if he believes what he's telling us. I mean that would be a 5 Bagger at this price in in years.
OK, let's say the sale of $2 billion of stock at $60 was a good idea. I just wonder if you bought the MS line the stock was worth $60 how you feel now? You are down 70% still. Not only that Andy sold that huge chunk of stock right after that at $60 or so and made millions while you watched your stock price tumble. Now with a $52 million dollar payday and you are still down 70%. Talk about pouring salt in a wound and not to mention Andy has NOT made any open market buys of the stock even when it tanked to $17-$18. Say what you will the optics on this are not good. I'm down around 50% and not a happy camper for sure. Seeing BOD making 250K seems way out of line. Seems everyone's getting fat but shareholders and with Nat. Gas topping $8 now losses will be likely bad despite and gains in revenue. So, despite all the accounting blunders and cost that continue to straighten that out he gets a massive raise. Sounds like a government job.
Yes, my biggest fear is that we become all things to all people but get beat of the parts with better technology and they just put their own system together from other suppliers that may be able to beat us on price. The competition is heating up, but maybe our jump in the pool first has bought us a lead, at least on new technologies. I still wonder at times if we spread ourselves too thin trying to hit all these different markets and not seeming, at this point making much, if any head way into the Bloom's or Ballard's arena. Maybe it is all, in the works, but just not seeing those big back up data center deals, trains, ships, or trucks up to this point. I do think Covid along with supply chains and labor have set us back 6-12 months, but they do not seem to wish to admit anything. It is like all the truck deal, consortiums and MOU's mentioned over the years. If they fail to materialize you never know unless someone brings it up as updates on arrangements of the past are just become part of stuff can happen statement.
I think many here are a bit disenchanted with the ways things have gone with the price being $75 and feeling giddy and then every time after a collapse and rebound it is followed by another collapse. Most is not the fault of the company, but the sector has been played like a fiddle. Some, like the accounting issue and maybe raising prices to keep up with inflation another. With Nat. gas trending toward $8 now, if they choose to eat the increase once again our losses will be even higher this quarter despite any gains in revenue. It seems that management, the BOD and hedge funds playing this game are the only ones really making money. Most shareholders are under water, sadly, including me since I bought a boatload in the $40's. Getting to $100 in 2024 would be nice, but what most expected by now. As it is I think we will be lucky to get past $30 by year end and doubt we will unless that $3\kg bill for H2 passes.
Since our Green H2 is just getting rolling this year with Natural Gas in the $6+ range now, our cost has to be way up. I hope Andy has changed his mind about raising prices. We don't need to eat another massive loss in this environment that would crush our stock.
Interesting deal! So, Olin has a byproduct it looks like of H2 that they can monetize, and we can find the need and logistics. Looking at their information they have 7 more of these plants in the US and if all could do the same that would bring the total from 15 to 120 tons! This does not count any overseas plants. I wonder how many other chemical companies could also benefit. Looks like a win\win deal.
Saw an article on my news feed the other day that our partner Johnson Matthey had developed a metal plate for fuel cells that is much less costly than $1000 per ounce platinum. I wonder if we will be using this in the near future to drive down cost even futher on our stacks?
Like him or hate him Trump was all about less regulation to get things done while the left is trying to put the pressure on tech with new regulations and pushing Unionization, which just causes more inflation, but I guess it's payback for votes.
Buying some votes by bailing out legitimate debt will just alienate 90% of the country that did the right thing and went to colleges they could afford, worked and paid off debt or are being responsible adults and paying as they go. If they would just push Green H2 they would be much better off. Push getting people jobs that will help pay off loans and a cleaner environment. I think that at least goes along with what most people can at least rationalize being worthy of passing.
$20 million is a drop in the bucket. We need the tax subsidy to spur growth. It amazes me how the leftists end of the world doom and gloom folks are not doing everything possible to pass massive H2 legislation. Maybe, it is the fear that companies could actually make a profit, which we all know is evil, right? It must be an emotional conflict. Maybe the thought of not being dependent on other countries the Marxist running things seem to love is disdainful to them. Here's a thought let's get back to being energy independent and allow everyone to play. Give the subsidy to H2 and allow oil to drill. We supply Europe and the rest of the world's needs and make the money going to folks that are our enemy's. We need cognitive functioning adults running things!