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I believe the pay out date is the 29th of Sept.
Wait...that can't happen if he deletes the email where he said it though...right?!?! New case precedent I believe....LOL
Rek..then what becomes of them. would they just hang over us or do you think the govt cancells?
I believe that we will win one of the upcoming court cases and then they will throw the warrants into another case to try and stop. I hope that they accomplish this as it was unfair deal if they did get paid back and was a deal basically treas to treas. As I understand it the warrants are not part of a suit yet though so just trying to give both sides.
Hnstable...as I understand it...the Gov't has the RIGHT to exercise the warrants but haven't yet. Many believe that like AIG this won't happen because they can't take interest and part of the company both. Many believe that HERA has given them this right as it was written into the law. You have to do your own DD and make an investment decision on those facts. If the gov't did exercise that would dilute the current share count and drive the price down although if there is a court win the share price should rise substantially IMO. Anyone have anything else to add? DD...Good luck
Let's hope so and that it is in our favor!
Thank you 955
the net revenue numbers prior to 07 were 4-8 billion per year so it seems that they are making more. I agree though that it feels like they are holding back something...acct maneuvers, DTA's, something. Hoping someone with an accounting background chimes in. Thanks for the response!
I think nothing has changed. We have a decent chance at a win in the courts and really that is what everyone is betting on. I do think that the stock price drop temporary. Looking forward to hearing something soon
So I have been trying to wrap my head around the dollars. FNMA was profitable from 03-06 showing anywhere from 4-8 billion profit/yr. 07 hits and they have a loss but are forced to go mark-market which means a 59B loss that eats up the 41B reserves they had leaving an 18B deficit. 08-11 they take 116.1B (15.2/60/15/25.9)draws = 134.1B negative but show losses of 161.4B(58.7/72/14/16.4). I know the accounting is bad and caused the write downs but I am not looking at that right now. They pay out 20.1B in dividends ( .03/2.5/7.7/9.6). Then from 12-current they are profitable 131.7B (11.6/82.5/20.6/10.3/6.7 thru 3Q). By my math they owed 1.5/7.5/9/16.1 in dividends if paid at 10% = 34.1B. In my head they have been thrown into the NWS over 14B that has paid out over 131B to date. Had the 10% rate held in lieu of the NWS we would owe the 14 plus another 58B(11.6 x 5 years) which would leave a balance of 73.7B at this years end plus we would have kept the payments from court cases (banks??) correct? This could have been used to grow the business instead of having our capital depleted.
Now..had we been allowed to pay back the loan, like EVERY other bailout company did we would have paid down the 116.1B 2012 we showed an 11.6 profit less an 11.6 payment. 2013 82.5B less the 11.6 left 71B which would have left a balance of 45B and changed the dividend payouts drastically. 2014 we made 20.6 and would have paid 4.5B. Payoff another 16.1B (28.9 balance) 2015 we made 10.3 and would have paid 2.89 and paid off another 7.4B (21.5B Balance) and this year to date we are at 6.7 with a payment owed of 1.2YE would pay another 5+ and still have a balance of 16+-. I get that this is simple math and we would have gained by making payments quarterly and lessened the balance faster. I also understand that the company could have diluted shares to raise capital and paid off earlier potentially in 2013 and saved the 20B that would have been paid in dividends.
Question...what else am I missing??? Other than the fact that this should have never happened in the first place!
Yea..I read one that said if not then maybe Monday Wednesday or Thursdays...LOL
Looks true...one end of Aug the other end of Sept.
Thanks for the help...it just floors me how on one hand Yank/Carney/others cry about how much someone or some fund MAY make because they bought at the low and yet sees no wrong doing for the people that owned and lost early on. For that matter...they talk about how there is no value lost yet Fannie just made over their PPS in the last Quarter! No movement...at all. Before everyone jumps on the fact that it is news driven, which I understand, if Fannnie had done that at any other time the PPS would have shot up! I just hope that the courts are just!
I never said that the Gov't gave investment advise! And again you flip flop regarding your statements! Whether or not it was right to stay in is sometimes hindsight and has nothing to do with the question asked...all I said was if even ONE person lost how do you condone the actions taken by the Treas and FHFA after learning all that we have? Your reply is a non answer from you!
Again..you make it sound like nothing was taken from the commons..no voting rights..no BOD that were voted on...No rights for accountability from the company..NOTHING? REALLY? that is without what was taken as far as profits and potential stock price. Again...you keep talking like all 1.5 Billion shares were purchased AFTER the stock went to .35? Just how the heck do you know when/why others investment strategies played out?!? MANY people lost lots of money! I am sure many have bought down to try and salvage an initial investment and I am sure many have bought since on the gamble that the judicial system will play out fairly..but that is what stock investment is...an educated gamble because it sure isn't fair or weighted to the average investor so for those that came in late and profited GOOD FOR THEM! But tell me YANK, if ONE person lost their life savings or any large amount on this situation, tell me how you can condone what the Gov't has done? Especially after what has been learned from discovery?
So you are NOW saying it was in the nations best interest to move the toxic asstes into the GSE's? then you end that statement sounding like it was the best interests to SAVE the GSE's? Man you can flip flop. The GSE's are and were publicly traded not Gov't owned! The Gov't DIDN'T have that right without compensation!
Hang on Commander...you mean to tell me that there NEVER was a real need to put into conservatorship because the ONLY losses were either accounting manipulations and/or that the GSE's were FORCED to buy toxic debt to help make TBTF banks solvent?!? That isn't what YANK is telling us...he states that we are going to loose everything based on data that was talked about before 2013 and the release of documents that shows what you are saying...Hmmm....Now THAT makes me "think McFly think" (*sarcasm*)
On top of that...using Yank's posts...52 Billion STILL isn't even close to being enough to fall under the capital requirements that are being bantered for reserves so in that thinking the Gov't would what just throw the new enterprise into conservator-ship also?!? And since when did Berkowitz or Glen Bradford start making national policies?!? Yank's fear mongering is getting out of hand IMO although seeing all that makes me wonder if something is coming...Good Luck!!
Come on Yank...I own my own business...do you honestly think I am paying business taxes on OWNERSHIP? it is based on what it makes...no different than they will take some 40 plus or minus percent from me when I sell this stock, profit not ownership. As for TAKING taxes for social programs yes they do and I have to match a portion...are you saying that you feel that taking the GSE profits is kin to a social program? Name another privately held company right now who has 90%+ of profits stripped going to the treasury? we are just "special" I guess? LOL
So are you saying you don't think there are more or just that none are needed? If the latter, you have to admit that IF Sweeney released a chain that directly connected POTUS to this for say paying for Obamacare or using to keep gov't afloat that that wouldn't help the cause?
Plus there isn't anything "new". I wish Judge Sweeney would release a game changer! You know that there are a couple in there...has to be...
Patswil...please elaborate. As I understand it...there were excessive mark downs that created the ease for the Treas/FHFA to start conservatorship but those were then redone in 12/13 and that is when the Treas. received the additional 60 some odd billion of profits as "dividends". Other than a court case that hands out damages (IF) what restating are you talking about?
The money runs out only under the current status...again, if they are released and allowed to recap then their is money! Granted not enough to meet non existent reserve requirements. The GSE's do have the availability to sell shares and raise money albeit diluting shareholders in the process, but I would take that over this situation as a shareholder! Now this is assuming the warrants are not exercised. As far as the trend...what do you think happens to their bottom lines when the Fed actually does increase interest rates?
As others have stated you are basing this off a bill that has not and probably won't be passed. In the mean time what is the rational for NOT letting the GSE's recap as much as possible until Congress comes up with some sort of "fix". The only reason is that it makes it harder to nationalize a private company that IS profitable if released and recap has started. This in my opinion has always been about POWER and MONEY..not what is right...not what is best for the country. Home ownership at all time lows...and Congress is sitting on its hands! But the Mulvaney bill is supposed to pass???
Your basically saying that because you/others think it would take too long to meet reserve requirements that the Treas. should just be able to keep taking all profits indefinitely?!?
Kinda scary just how quite it is....
LOL...along with a bunch of travelers emails...
This week could be interesting with earnings being announced...I think that both lose money because of derivative bets but only one will ask for a draw, prob Freddie Mac. Not sure how that will affect things but will definitely put them in the news. What are your views on how this week plays out?
Thanks Rick...now I'd like to know why it was deleted?!?
Big Yank...just where do you see him stating that the "loan" never had to be paid back? The GSE's never took draws whenever they "wanted" and yes, they do have an advantage because of how they were originally set up and what job they perform but that does not give the gov't the right to take a company because they do not like the current setup and want reform. If Watt was truly doing his job they would have deferred the "dividend" or paid in addtl stock warrants, all of which was in his control to do and saved cash. This was not what Treas. wanted as has been proved by comments from released emails. I do enjoy seeing others viewpoints but you are just being argumentative. You have NO idea what the courts are going to do, no different than any of us.
Thanks for the link but I had tried it and got the error on it too. Any chance you can just paste the article? TIA
I tried and got the same error message. Then tried getting in thru Katina Stefanova, the author and got the same thing. Hmmm
So..tomorrow will be a month since we last heard from Judge Sweeney..what do you all think is her next move?
Green! We are on our way Rick haha keep it going...soon your projection will be right!
Can't wait till the day I open this message board up and everyone is talking about what Sweeney did or that Delaware ruled in our favor or even the appeals court came back 2 to 1 to overturn or remand...some GOOD news...and it should be sooner rather than later!
It's like getting a week's worth of Rick but on Crack! But at least he is funny! Just stop...please!
GREAT...more delays...
Thanks LOL but just how much time do you need to sell 16 shares? about what 3 minutes???
I don't get how people think this way, no offense, but they (which includes Freddie) don't have 5 trillion in assets, they have 5 trillion in liabilities. This is hwy the Treasury didn't officially put in receivership as this would have had to go on the books. They make the spread on the 5 trillion which equates to 15B annually between BOTH. That being said...love this board and wish you all a Happy 4th!
here it is
gselinks.com/Court_Filings/Voacolo/16-01324-0001.pdf