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wow, this is incredible ...
i remember reading at some pt that the company and the stock were ver unknown, and that an uplisting was going to change this, but it appears to be at least fairly well known given the msg you received from ceo regarding such a huge turnout and also that mutual funds and brokers are being flown in ...
it all makes me very curious ...
i think i should be a part of it, so i dont miss out
i am a little scared of liquidity though- it looks like it has only traded 5000 shares today, thats so tiny for a company with such a big large market cap
if i try and buy a few thousand shares, it may shoot upwards- id better put a limit on my order
this is incredible
why would he give them back without compensation ?
it defies logic, does it not ?
have you, or has anyone here, ever heard of a CEO returning his stock to the company without compensation ?
the mere premise (not to mention that this figure is 75% of his total) sounds ridiculous, or at the very least unprecedented ...
can anybody give me a reasonable explanation for how or why he would have done this ?
what an incredibly generous gesture !
i was obviously not asking whether he was charged a fee to return them, but rather whether he received other compensation in exchange for returning these shares- hence my question "why would he give them back"
i am disappointed that of the many posters here, all of whom seem very knowledgeable, nobody wants to address this with me and simply explain it in a rational way- i mean, ive never heard of anything like this w any executive at any public company (i wonder, have you ?)
so im simply hoping for some clarification and a reasonable explanation ...
the tone of your reply seems to be mocking my inquiry, which was made respectfully, and i did not find it helpful
if there is somebody else out there who supports JBII and is willing to answer a simple question to help a prospective shareholder, i would be most grateful
thank you very much
hello- i notice that in the mr zardiw post on the complete due diligence of jbii that he mentions that the CEO has returned 75% of his personal shares to the company treasury
can you please explain what does it mean that the CEO returned 75% of his shares to the treasury ? did he just give them back for free ? are they retired, meaning that the earnings per share are now much higher ? why would he give them all back ? i never heard of a ceo doing this before ever ... JB must have incredibly high principles and must truly care for the well-being of his other shareholders ?
id appreciate your help from many knowledgeable posters on this board
thanks you in advance
hello mike dd king
do you have any opinion on DGSE at these levels ?
thank you very much
thank you mr jim bishop but i hope it was clear that my question was around what the true outstanding share count was, fully fully diluted that is ...
thank you- i can tell that you are very knowledgeable investor and i am thankful for your reply ...
rawnoc, if you are out there, which you usually seem to be, could you please address my questions ...
thank you in advance
hello rawnoc
i was wondering- i saw that yhoo has a market cap for jbii listed at 264mm
and also that in mr zardiw post on the complete due diligence of jbii that he mentions that the CEO has returned 75% of his personal shares to the company treasury
i was hoping you could please help me with a couple questions rawnoc
1- is 264mm the true market cap, or is it higher or lower ?
2- i know that you believe he current figure, even if off by 50, 100 or even 150mm, is irrelevant based upon the outstanding future prospects of JBII ... but i was still curious, when will JBII begin reporting qtrly revenues of a substantial nature (regardless of what the market cap is)
3- what does it mean that the CEO returned 75% of his shares to the treasury ? did he just give them back for free ? are they retired, meaning that the earnings per share are now much higher ? why would he give them all back ? i never heard of a ceo doing this before ever ... JB must have incredibly high principles and must truly care for the well-being of his other shareholders ?
thank you for your help rawnoc
i appreciate it
this is a thorough and outstanding reply, informative and i look forward to following more of your work ...
i appreciate it
very helpful
excuse me rawnoc, i had a question
can you please remind me what i can look forward to in the near-term as a JBII shareholder ?
i know there is constant talk of an up-listing to the nasdaq small cap marketplace as a major catalyst for an upward move in the shares ...
should i assume we are close to that happening ?
i have noticed that there are prop bids at $4 which are supporting the stock above the all important $4 level, so it would appear that particular hurdle will likely be met
ive also noticed that there is talk of a big meeting and presentation and conference call ?
this is the annual shareholders meeting or are they two different events ?
and are these pending, or in april ?
and to refresh my memory, given that the last time there was a big communications wave, in feb w the several press releases and the conference call, the stock went from the high 6s to the current 4ish levels ...
and the main reason was that he didnt demonstrate the catalyst or show the machine working or validate the catalyst or something along those lines ?
and the expectation is now that at this next date, whichever it is, the catalyst will be proven etc and this will give the stock an immediate, or fairly immediate, big boost higher- and when coupled w the up-listing and greater exposure to institutional investors, will really get the JBII machine rolling ?
and then at that point, ill be looking for a rapid or fairly rapid 2H10 rollout of these sites, and the financials will begin printing in quick order and then people can begin using multiples and DCFs and more traditional valuation metrics and the like - and hence the stock will be on its way (of course by this point it will likely already be at 15 bucks or so) ?
is this the general gist ?
i suppose also you would add that they will print 4Q results, and 1Q results, that will show the acquired subsidiaries of pakit and the java cable co being profitable and growing, along w great results from the nasa tape business ?
and then also the potential that JB will attend this conference in africa and then have some contracts to announce or something like that ?
this all sounds very exciting !
thank you for your help rawnoc ...
excuse me mr hank
i had a couple of questions which id enjoy hearing your responses
1- why would you be selling your DGSE at 224 ? certainly youve made a nice profit on the share purchases you posted, but does this not appear to be a special situation ? you purchased these shares under the guise that eps were getting a little better and that the company could benefit form a volatile market in precious metals, volatile global financial markets and a poor economy ... also, you liked the notion that high prices for precious metals would help the eps and the stock ... well none of that has changed- and all of that becomes incredibly secondary to the whopper of an 8K published on feb 5th that essentially kicks you in the face and suggests the shares are worth far north of the current trading price, right ? from the 8K it appears that total shares outstanding will be shrinking by 1/3, debt will be shrinking by -70% ... this is epic in proportion ... so wouldnt the stock actually be a buy now rather than a sell ?
2- following on the above, mr hank you refer to yourself as 10 bagger, yet in this instance seem perfectly happy to sell at what looks to be a double at best, despite the implications that the stock will have a lot of legs in the next few months w following catalysts 1) v nice 4q09 eps 2) release of court approval of this Stanford deal and the final terms 3) subsequent eps release which reflects the new capital structure flowing through the income statement, which should lead to a dramatic rise in the eps ... in watching your posts across the board, it seems that you are more of an ultra-mini market maker as opposed to an investor looking for anything even close to a 10-bagger ...
3- why do you post every little trade here ? i mean, 85 shares of a $2 stock; 1,245 shares of a 40c stock; and so on and so on .. you get an A for transparency but it is a bit odd ...
thank you mr hanks, i appreciate your time
i apologize rawnoc, im not sure how, at any point in my posting with you, it has come across that ive accused the company, or ceo, of being a scam ?
my guess is that you are tired of being bombarded by doubters, or those w contrary opinions, or heaven forbid "bashers", and have thus become defensive a bit
my sole pt, or question, is that there should be, and likely are, far more relevant points of discussion than this random, irrelevant bank story from 1990 ...
as for your other points, citing things like nasa and paul allen and so forth, who the heck knows ?
you were an absolute genius to buy the shares at 50c, it has been an incredible trade and i am envious .. hopefully if i buy than ill be fortunate enough to enjoy even a fraction of that return in the future ...
i would state though, i am a numbers guy, and a facts guy, and so are institutional investors, who hold companies up to far more scrutiny than people who post on ihub ... but the proof is in the pudding, pounded the table at 50c, $1 and so forth, and its worked out great for you and those who followed
youve been equally bullish at higher levels, and in the short term that hasnt fared well- but i know you want to own this for a long time and believe in JBII ultimate potential of going up many, many fold from here, so likely dont care at all ...
we will see, time will tell
i dont think there is anything wrong w generic skepticism or playing devils advocate in building a position in a company- in fact one could argue thats a healthy way to invest
id note that while im not at all claiming that JBII is a scam, and never have, that there are tons of companies on the nasdaq small cap exchange (id guess jbii would be listed there rather than the national market, no?) that have fallen precipitously or have been poor investments for shareholders ... id think this is obvious, right ? not saying at all that JBII is that, but to suggest otherwise seems to lack analytical integrity ..
i do enjoy dialogue with you rawnoc, you have a quick with, solid conviction in your investment, and seem to be the most informed of all the posters ...
one last question about the nasa and paul allen stuff --
what has it generated for JB in previous companies, or within JBII, in the way of substantial revenue streams, or profits ? in other words, how does it manifest itself into a portion of the investment thesis to buy JBII ?
paul allen stepped down from an operating role in MSFT in 1982 i believe, correct ?
and ive read many posters here who claim that NASA business has been insignificant over the years, no ? now they could be wrong- ive no clue- i dont even know how to go about verifying that- but if it is true, im curious what is different now, in 2010, that would dramatically accelerate the NASA business for JBII that wasnt there last yr or in yrs prior ?
i appreciate your time
i apologize supersquirrel, for some reason youve somehow entirely misunderstood my quesiton/post
im simply asking why being called ''honest john'' by a small paper, or for being part of that bank situation in 1990, was in any way relevant to the buy decision or investment thesis on owning JBII
nothing more, nothing less- it just seems to me there should be, or are, far more relevant and tangible items that should used in the investment discussion or as a buy catalyst, thats all ?
im sorry- i dont see anything "sneaky" about my questions- theyre fairly straight forward are they not ?
as for this being a "bear-raid", ill concur that there is certainly an abundance for negativity aimed at the stock/company/ceo or whatever (but no more in my opinion than the bulls levee against the bears, right ?) .. but that said, what does it really mean ? and what does mischief imply ? or even achieve ?
i do appreciate your responses ---
id say that JB has clearly positioned himself to be closely watched, and doesnt appear to have anything to hide whatsoever- in fact quite the contrary, i believe he is attempting to curry favor (quite successfully) by being unusually open, especially to small shareholders, w moves like posting on facebook and naming three ihub members to his board of directors ...
he has been extremely communicative and, w the exception of the big press release/cc thing, has been rewarded thus far ...
im extremely interested in what transpires at the shareholder meeting
also, i can clearly state that i have no short interest in the stock, and never will- simply too much explosive potential, regardless if real or imagined (i believe you mentioned this as the two possible outcomes for the stock in earlier posts)
actually, id be more inclined to buy the stock, especially given the amount of negativity that exists, as it suggests that along with gaining generic exposure to larger investors through positive financial results in the future, or seeing P2O pan out- there is also an opportunity to convert bears to bulls, as the bears seem to be just as well-informed and acutely interested in the company as the bulls
except for you rawnoc
you are the most knowledgeable, and reliable poster this board has
i do appreciate your help
i wasnt claiming whether it was possible or impossible to short penny stocks or bulletin board stocks, i was merely stating, and i believe accurately (unless rawnoc informs me differently), that it is highly unlikely that the stance or position of short-sellers is holding back the shares of JBII ...
indeed, the stock is up, what rawnoc, 8 fold in less than 12 mos ? and carries a 200mm market cap ...
instead of this being deemed a victim of short-sellers, one could logically conclude that the market has rewarded JB and JBII shareholders quite handsomely, wouldnt you agree ?
thank you super squirrel
thank you- i just read the portion of the article that was free- it appears from the link that you sent that JB didnt hack/crack the banks security software, but rather just pushed a lot of buttons to see if the ATM would comply, and to test how much the ATM would give him ?
i believe that is what the article states, no ?
this has me even more puzzled !
clearly the error would have eventually been noticed and given that ATMs have built in cameras, and that the servers would certainly have the records of his acct, keystrokes and transaction time, that he would have been eventually caught and prosecuted ?
so he really had to choice to beg and plead w the bank to take the money back, regardless of whether the branch mgr or tellers or whomever initially didnt pick up on the error ?
isnt that correct ?
as to your last comment, perhaps there will be excitement at the shareholders meeting that will stimulate some buying interest
good luck
hello rawnoc- thank you for your reply ...
i apologize for the misunderstanding- i didnt at all mean to imply that being referred to by the niagra business journal as honest john was an implication that he is dishonest or that there was a conspiracy (did my comments really reflect that line of thinking ? its completely illogical)
but what i was wondering, and what wasnt answered, was why having a fairly glib nickname in a tiny article in a tiny local rag warrants any mention in an investment decision ?
another question that ive yet to find an answer for-
there is a ton of talk on this board about the rampant presence, and interest, of short-sellers, who allegedly want to "bash" this stock in the interest of driving the shares lower and making a profit
furthermore, its been implied numerous times by people on this board, that the "bashers" or"shorts" are the reason the stock is trading around 4/450, instead of the 6/7 prior to that slew of interesting press releases and cc of a few wks ago (or even at a number higher than that i suppose) ...
well i just dont get it
the true free float seems inarguably tiny (regardless of this ongoing quarrel as to what the true fully fully diluted sharecount is- locked or unlocked) ... also, the stock is a bulletin board issue, and many, or most reputable brokers dont even permit the shorting of the stock ... lastly, id venture that there isnt even a meaningful amount of stock to borrow -- i guess when i consider these factors, and the fact that the stock is here not really due to selling pressure but a dearth of buying interest- i guess it would just appear to me that there isnt a meaningful short position in the stock- and indeed it is almost factually impossible to claim otherwise ...
is that not true ?
thank you for your help rawnoc
hello rawnoc ...
in trying to learn as much as i can about JBII and reading the past posts, which is no easy task given that it seems like a virtually endless number, i see this "honest john" posting many times per day in one form or another
ill admit as a long time investor in public equities, both large and small, that ive never seen or heard of something like that as any relevant part of an investment thesis ... i guess im asking- what does it mean and why is it relevant to me investing in JBII ??
to further my devil's advocate research process, id be inclined to ask the following
1) brock university isnt a great or prestigious school (at least in any type of global academic rankings etc) by any stretch, so why would a genius and person w 170 IQ etc be attending there ?
2) isnt the only place this was cited that same niagra business journal interview (the one where the paul allen connection is made)- and havent we agreed that the niagra business journal piece is not "objective" reporting etc
3) what exactly does this even mean or why is it relevant to JBII ? at best i guess it suggests he was able to hack (and crack) the code for the banks security software- and that to avoid the risk of eventually being caught, and prosecuted for a felony, that he returned the money ?
or does it mean something else, something that warrants the frequent mentions on this board --
i just dont understand how it plays into the buy thesis on JBII or the LT potential of P20 and so on ...
pls let me know your thoughts when you have the time
thank you for your help rawnoc ...
ps- i always go to you because it appears from all the back posts that you are the most knowledgeable JBII investor and that you are generally always on this message board so i kind of consider you my top resource
thank you for your help rawnoc
rawnoc, if JB impressed paul allen etc, wouldnt it be logical for him to seek start-up capital to increase the speed and scope of his new venture- ie JBII ? wouldnt that be far superior to doing PIP deals at a buck or whatever the price was in that recent transaction ?
id also like to ask you, when you constantly mention JB having "incredible track record of execution" ... what does that mean exactly ?
am i mistaken or is JBII essentially a money-losing operation- and are the acquired subs not merely a hodge-podge of tiny, insignificant companies that he was able to purchase for next to nothing in the hopes of some greater synergy down the road ?
and lastly, hasnt him private tape businesses, pre the current JBII incarnation, been a historically money-losing operation that has never done a material amount of business in the way of revenues etc ??
if your estimates are right, i particularly like the current market cap vs 1 site argument, then the stock is wildly attractive ... but wouldnt even you agree that there is, at this point, a generic lack of substance in this whole dialogue, and that its reasonable for investors or the market to want to first see some actual results and so forth (ie organic growth in tape, revenue generation and a truly credible partner in P2O- meaning a company that has substantial resources to fund the roll-out if successful) before capitalizing honest johns resume at north of 200mm (which could be argued as being generous, especially in this credit/macro backdrop as the the firm does have no assets or underlying cash flows etc) -- btw, your campbells argument doesnt really hold well as the valuation would be based on cash flows and even free cash flow, certainy not book which over time on a company like that is overloaded w depreciation ...
im excited to see what comes out of the shareholders meeting ...
i wonder if there will be a ton of press releases or perhaps one large substantive announcement that can get the stock back to its recent highs- that alone would be a satisfying return, but i know that you are looking for this to go up ten twenty or a hundred fold from here i think, so you probably dont worry about these near-term swings ...
thank you for your help and insight- i find the best way to gather conviction on a name is to play devil's advocate as much as possible and go from there
btw one last comment- correct me if im wrong but ive heard a lot of speculation that the sahre price has been hurt by short-selling, and that much of the negative commentary on the internet around jbii is from people who are shorting the stock ... well, it would appear that given how small the trading volume is, and indeed how relatively small the free-float is, that mathematically there isnt much shorting here .. and furthermore, is it not true that most brokers would not even permit the shares to be shorted, and that there is virtually no stock to borrow anyways ???
thank you for your help rawnoc--
hmmm -
that's kind of weird in my opinion ...
in what general time frame did this occur ?
id also ask whether you would consider the sources of the wall street reporter interview, or niagra business journal article, to be objective ?
the former is simply a bullish forum for micro-cap ceos to put their story on record in the hopes of gaining momentum in the investment community- hardly objective in my opinion
the latter is a local rag in jb's area that is unlikely a bastion for digging deep and so fourth- in fact id bet a lot of what was contained came from stories that jb relayed to the reporter, no ?
i have no idea, just asking ...
lastly, why would something like this be in filings ? there certainly isnt any materiality or even relevance to JBII, so i wonder why it would even be in any filings, if it even is included there ...
i suppose it could represent some type of name-dropping, or reverse guilt by association strategy (which would appear in this case to have worked since i see paul allen's name mentioned on this board many times per day)
anyhow, im not sure whether to invest in jbii yet but am trying to learn as much as i can
thank you for your help
hi rawnoc- im very confused ... would you mind please explaining the following ..
1) what did JB actually do for paul allen
2) what your source is for citing this information
3) why this would be relevant to a buy thesis on JBII