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So, if I have a lot of money and donate it to a college and they name a school or a stadium for me, does that automatically mean that I am going to support them going forward? Naming rights are purely for ego followed by some weak marketing edge. We should not leap to the conclusion that the Walton family wealth is going to be infused into new research or development. Has the University press released anything? In the past, when we announced the three deals in Ecuador, there was no press coverage in the local Spanish speaking media or on the elected official social media accounts. The same holds true for the Congo announcement for a new plant but nothing said locally.
Just issue more cheapie shares to settle the obligation.
No revenues from any operations?
No systems sales or pick up of profits from any subsidiaries?
So, what happened to Morroco or India?
Finally, I am making a little money on this stock. Not a great deal but it beats where we were two weeks ago.
Again, please look at the power of Big Oil to fund politicians by donations, PAC's and lobbyists versus Dorsey. Consider the financing ability to build out hydrogen plants and distribution versus what CLNV can do. Big Oil has a cadre of project managers, equipment manufacturers and the like that are domestic. We can only show a Chinese made device. The optics are not good. Big Oil has the need to become green so they have a vested interest to do something. Some may fight green energy but the integrated firms are looking at energy as opposed to merely oil and its refined outputs.
So, the question comes down to which party will control the funds distributed? Big Oil and their lobbyists and PAC's versus Dorsey? Who has the capital to build large scale projects and a distribution system in place?
We will know early next week if the Biden administration becomes a lamp duck presidency for the next two years. Should the two houses come under the Republican spell, the Biden green initiative could die. Big Oil would like hydrogen production and distribution go through there business rather than money going into smaller firms. They have deep pockets to fund lobbyists and to fund PAC's.
I would expect that the GOP will cancel the minimum tax on corporations and fund the lost revenue from canceling some green initiatives.
Budget allocations does not necessarily translate into cash spending. Monies not spent in a given year tend to roll over to the following year. However, with a new government, they can merely call the whole thing off.
Working for a government as opposed to Big Oil lobbyists would be an interesting thing to watch. Who would win? ExxonMobil could give a 1 million to various candidates and PAC's to put the kibosh on green projects. It is politics and not what makes environmental or commercial sense.
If we see the Congress go to the GOP next week then the monies set aside for green projects will disappear unless they go to Big Oil. If there is anything left to innovators, it would go to bigger and established firms and likely not our company.
A Republican government will only support made in USA equipment. Where will we get our equipment from? The GOP Congress will not impose blockchain or PCN onto firms so it begs the question of what value it has domestically.
There is a global push into making hydrogen. Big Oil is all over this as well as some biomass and wind farm developers. However, there is no effective distribution channels for hydrogen yet. We do not have enough EV charging stations in the US yet for cross country vacations. So, guess when hydrogen will be availablebatny9urncorner gas station? Look at least 10 years out.
Should the GOP take control of the Congress, the Biden enacted green agenda will be rolled back as it conflicts with Big Oil. Even if the Biden Congress survives, we need to be careful that the rules for domestic content may pose a problem when our company uses offshore equipment.
How many press released contracts died on the vine. Remember the 3 plants in Ecuador, the Congo, the Cameroons, Cape Cod...
All the press released values may not happen or at least happen until the company, its JV partners or its clients can find the cash to cover the equipment purchases.
I am sorry you feel that way.
The reality is that we have a reasonably solid dream for a greener future with poor follow through as evidenced by press releases.
I remain guarded long.
We need to consider the fact that should the GOP control congress that the green initiatives will take a backseat or even repealed. We need to remind ourselves that there are established and well financed competitors out in the market.
Quite true. Rome was not built in a day but it was burned down to the ground in one.
It can take years to build out a dream.
My border does not allow short sales of OTC stocks.
As I said before, I hold slightly less than a million shares with an average cost of about 3 cents. I am trying to be objective and try to get shareholders to hold management accountable. There is a difference between being speculative optimistic than factual.
Given the ratio of successful press releases to wishful thinking press releases, there is cause for concern. Without solid third party capital either by the company, our JV partners or clients, we will not be able to generate revenue. Dilution does not get enough capital to buy systems of critical mass. There are other equipment providers and systems operators out in the market. Our concept may be better but without capital and a proven track record, the big guys will be preferred over our dreams.
Even when something comes out, is it detailed enough to satisfy a discerning investor or merely pump and dump hyperbole? A lot of press releases did not result in any capital raising to buy equipment which in turn drives revenue.
When you consider the large existing and well capitalized participants in many aspects of the hydrogen space, the amount of cash that our company could receive would be modest at best. There are billions of dollars of projects in development to produce hydrogen, fuel cells and the like already announced. They have heavily entrenched lobbyists to pull it through so we should not get our hopes up too high.
Agreed. Pyrloysis has been around for quite some time. Pyrolysis of a plastics only feedstock is more of a modern event. Most systems can be quite productive with 2 out of 7 plastic classes. The issue is trying to get the value out of the syngas and the oil.
While your statements are valid, please consider that corporations buy from technologically proven and financially solid firms. We are not a brand name. We do not are financially strong. Maybe with more dilution we can get the cash to roll out the plan but by that time the marker mat have moved on.
There are a number of well financed and established manufacturers of fuel cells in the EU, Canada and the US. There are a number of new hydrogen plants being constructed or planned. Further, many of the auto companies are planning to make their own fuel cells in house.
We need to be careful in not overstating our portion of the universe given our past record of unfulfilled press releases and the absence of capital to drive revenue.
Your statement for Biden's support is also true. There are other competing firms moving into hydrogen production as well. Most of the names that I have heard have hard cash in the till to move ahead. They also have proven technology as well. Governments tend to grant money to those who put their own cash on the line. Our company really doesn't have any unless we start up the share certificate printing press again. The Biden support could start drying up after the midterm elections if control of the Congress changes.
If your statement is correct then why is the Biden administration putting billions into offshore wind? Why are their incentives for personalized solar panel installations? Why have the Netherlands and Denmark are going off fossil fuels by using EV, wind, solar and batteries? Why do power producer prices go negative in Ontario in the fall and winter for most of the day? Why does California have massive wind farms in the mountain passes? The sources of energy are changing. The demand will be up for electricity and down for fossil fuels. The demand will be tempered by self generation and better insulation.
While the price of power to the end user has increased over the years, the price paid to wholesale producers has remained much flatter. In some markets, the supply of clean energy has constrictions to transmission line access and throughput. With the cost of solar and wind falling and becoming a larger share of the energy mix, the purchased price or manufactured price of power is on par with lkng term inflation. It is the transmission and distribution side that is seeing the increased cost. The EU situation was mirroring this until the invasion of the Ukraine.
In the more developed and environmentally focused nations, plastics are likely at their peak production and by extension waste generation.
As for the treatment of collected plastics, the more you collect the less it is worth to sell. It is even worth less if it is not sorted or it is a hard plastic. Local governments in Canada and the US have found that the cost of collecting and sorting waste streams exceeds the revenue. Unless you have a large single source of plastic, it is better to convert all waste - paper, plastic and household trash - in a single process. You have the option of pyrolysis or clean incineration. With the growing demand for power say for EV cars, it may have the best societal outcome. Unfortunately, power prices are generally too low for WTE sites.
In the political world, things move very slowly between the passage of a Bill and the delivery of the cash. Puerto Rico is still waiting for the aid from the previous hurricane 5 years ago.
At some point in time, the Republicans with control the government and gut the Inflation Reduction Act as alternative energy affects their donor base
Without capital, there is no revenue.
Single use plastics are rapidly disappearing in the EU, the UK and Canada. The world's remaining generation of waste plastics is primarily in Asia.
As we turn to EV vehicles, truck, trains and planes, the demand for transportation fuel will peak then come down. The various Biden bills will focus on rapid transit and EV which may limit the pie in the sky demand.
The market for CLNV will likely be the Caribbean Islands, parts of South America and Africa. India will be a challenge with a number of competitors already on the ground. However, our efforts for 3 plants in Ecuador, the Cameroons seem to have died on the vine.
Unless CLNV can raise capital, it's JV partners raise cash or arms length clients, there cannot be any material revenue.
Backing new technology does not translate into concrete action especially in a divided US Congress. If the Democrats lose the house or senate then the clean energy initiative will die on the vine. Republicans like oil, natural gas and coal so things will slow down until the mid-terms are over. In two years, rinse and repeat! You will need eight consecutive years where the Dems control the Presidency, the House and the Senate to ensure hydrogen is the new reality.
I am long but still underwater on CLNV.
Beston Group plants are cheap devices. They do not cost much to purchase but there are reasons for this. Beston's own promotional materials suggests a system life span of 5 to 8 years. Further, the emphasis on the finished output is pyrolysis derived oil and not a tank ready fuel. Pyrolysis based oils are valued at about 20 to 30 dollars less than WTI. A tank ready diesel fuel for example required significant upgrading of the oils. This does not come cheaply. If you want to maximize the revenue per ton of input, you need to spend quite a bit more. This is why leading pyrolysis systems come out of the EU and Japan. If you examine the reviews on Beston systems, they get an average rating.
Beston as a manufacturer does not need to mention CLNV or Clean Seas on their website or marketing materials.
CLNV through Clean Seas mentions via June press releases filed with OTC markets there relationship with GGII of Singapore. The GGI Energy website mentions the link with CLNV and Clean Seas on the news section of the GGI website. It was described as a strategic relationship and even mentioned the Cape Cod project.
If you are already in the space, there is the option to buy added capacity from manufacturers rather than scooping up an inflated value stock.
While the cloud over the question of control may resolve itself, there is still the question of either the company, its JV partners or clients finding enough capital to build a project of a scale where people will sit up and take notice. With no capital there is no revenue. Without revenue, who controls CLNV becomes irrelevant.
The reality is that there are a large number of hydrogen projects being constructed or planned now which will eclipse what our company can do. As for fuel cell manufacturers, the bigger ones are already expanding. If I take the market size as a given, will all of the other competition, our share will be insignificant.
Without capital to purchase the pyrolysis systems, to pay for permits and such you can not generate revenue.
Announcing deals mentioning the scale of the revenue stream but not providing proof of the capital to support the revenue is a warning sign.
CLNV is in the right place at the right time.
Can we deliver against the hype?
Consider these observations:
- no new capital to drive new revenues
- many announced projects have gone dark
- many photos of micro sized units where the
world needs jumbo sized units
- do we have the bandwidth to manage the roll
out of say a new plant every quarter?
- does PCN have any value if you are not forced
to track plastics generation?
- have any of the investment bankers mentioned
in the past 18 months delivered any cash?
- we said that GGII out of Singapore has the best
pyrolysis systems which can make energy in
various forms yet we are not using them
Maybe a change in strategy is needed.
As for Sri Lanka, it is in a state-of-the-art economic and political turmoil. We need to take any proposal for Sri Lanka with a grain of salt. Maybe a bushel.
How is the Caoe Cod project doing? Anything with the Cameroons?
The largest polluters of the oceans come from 10 rivers the vast majority are in Asia such as China, Vietnam and India.
The other largest sources were from the Fukashima earthquake and fishing nets.
The North American sources are more related to people being lazy and tossing plastics in from boats and beaches.
Go onto Goggle and look up US scrap plastics by grade, condition, source, colour and the like. There are also plastics scrap exchanges as well.
I have also been in touch with domestic plastics buyers.
Both sources can give you a reasonable estimate of the range of scrap prices. A scrap yard if they spend the money on sorting can increase their revenue per ton five fold. The price of scrap plastic mirrors that of WTI crude. High crude prices encourages plastics users to use reprints, off cuts and sorted recycled plastics to get a substitute for virgin oil.