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Paid, dead on statement.
Jax, always good to hear from you.
Now I will go back into my hole.
We've been here before, everett, as you know.
I see these 500 and 600 shares playing games with each other and just wait for more substantial volume to drive this to the upside.
Our day will come.
Received the ballot for my A and B shares.
Voted more than a million shares to NO.
A big REJECTED statement from me.
The Equity Committee would never just pull their plan unless they felt they would be able to get value by working with the Debtor plan. And, this must be the case.
Perhaps the valuation of the Company will be adjusted or the warrants will be amended.
In any event, as stated, this is far from over.
Let's remember that several members of the EQ are holding many shares and they are not just going to roll over and play dead.
I have to think that a reasonable compromise has been or can be worked out between the Debtor plan and the EC plan that the EC is able to accept on behalf of shareholders.
Let's see what plays out in the days ahead.
Thanks, Zilla.
I am certainly not a pumper. If I was, I would be here every day pumping!
I am now more in a watch and wait mode, in way too deep to back out now. Laying low. In fact, I am down a couple hundred thousand $ at this stage.
I still have some hope left for the shareholders or I would have sold out months ago.
Wanlass doesn't care about the shareholders. And he really doesn't care about Tronox, nor does he know anything about the industry and the true valuation of Tronox today. What he does care about is getting this bankruptcy behind him so he can get his big pay-off and move on to his next project as quickly as possible.
He doesn't care how he get's there, just as long as he gets there.
At least he has taken this farther than Tom Adams was ever capable of doing.
Newtech used to be a frequent poster and always had great contributions as an assistant moderator on this site. I wish he were back at this stage of the Tronox re-emergence.
I hope he is still with us and holding on.
He's probably just tuned out for awhile due to the frustrating way these shares trade regardless of their intrinsic value. Perhaps he just doesn't want to watch it each day since it has been rather depressing watching the manipulation, IMO.
Newtech, if you are still out there, we certainly look forward to your commentary in the days and weeks ahead!
Now that's a great idea!
Maybe I should take my 0.45 out of the closet and shoot a hole in my hard drive so I don't have to watch this every day!
You would have to think is has to be as you noted!
These shares seem to be going in circles.
I also think the majority of the shares are being held more closely than some may think.
Month after month after month I have always believed this will soon come to an end in our favour. But, it certainly is taking longer than I ever imagined.
Patience will win in the end.
We are getting closer!
It's frustrating watching this trade.
Almost becoming like clock-work.
Price up in the a.m. session only to driven back down after the morning spikes.
Just does not make any sense!
At least the volume is picking up each day.
Here is an example of just how strong the markets are for the titanium dioxide industry. When Kronos uses the words of "increased by a minimum $200 per tonne...." amount, this is unprecedented!
The titanium markets are on fire! The Tronox valuation should be increasing daily. There are no signs of this ending any time soon!
Kronos Worldwide, Inc. Announces a Price Increase for all Titanium Dioxide Products Sold Outside of North America and Europe
CRANBURY, N.J., Sept 10, 2010 /PRNewswire via COMTEX/ --
Kronos Worldwide, Inc. (NYSE: KRO) today announced a price increase for all titanium dioxide products sold outside of North America and Europe including among other areas, Asia Pacific, Latin America, Middle East, Africa and Asia.
Effective October 1, 2010, as contracts permit, prices for all Kronos(R) titanium dioxide products sold outside North America and Europe will be increased by a minimum of US$200 per metric ton.
This increase is in addition to the increases previously announced.
everett, for 2 years I have tried to make sense of the trading on these shares and have been unable to do so.
This company is worth a lot today, especially after the restructure and removal of the poor performing assets and environmental liabilities.
The TiO2 industry is in the strongest earnings position it has seen in over 20 years, and the outlook for the next couple of years is just as positive.
I just don't get it.
If the shareholders get taken to the cleaners here, they will have truly been robbed, IMO.
I hope the EC is able to get this point across in their future discussion with the Judge.
Bond at $92.25
From the Tronox website, you will find the following information:
What are the trading symbols and CUSIP numbers for Tronox stock?
Tronox is traded under two classes of shares, TRXAQ.PK and TRXBQ.PK The CUSIP numbers are:
TRXAQ 897051108
TRXBQ 897051207
Why do you have two classes of shares (TRXAQ and TRXBQ)?
The dual class structure was established by our former parent, Kerr-McGee, as part of the IPO and spin-off. The B shares were held by Kerr-McGee until March 30, 2006, at which time they were distributed to the shareholders of Kerr-McGee, thereby completing the spin-off of Tronox.
What is the difference between Tronox’s Class A (TRXAQ) and Class B (TRXBQ) common stock?
The holders of Class A common stock and Class B common stock have identical rights, except that holders of Class A common stock are entitled to one vote per share, while holders of Class B common stock are entitled to six votes per share on all matters to be voted on by stockholders.
On which stock exchange is Tronox listed?
Tronox common stock is traded over the counter and quoted on the Pink Sheets.
Do you plan to collapse this dual class equity structure in the future?
We do not have any plans to change the dual class structure.
What is the tax basis for the Tronox class B shares I received from Kerr-McGee in March of 2006?
Please contact Computershare Trust Company, N.A. for information regarding the tax basis for this distribution event.
Computershare Trust Company, N.A.
1-800-884-4225 toll free in North America
1-781-575-4706 outside North America
I received Tronox B shares in 2006 as part of Kerr-McGee's distribution. How can I confirm how many shares I currently own?
For assistance with most services related to stock ownership, such as change of address, dividend checks, lost certificates and direct purchase, contact our transfer agent:
Computershare Trust Company, N.A.
1-800-884-4225 toll free in North America
1-781-575-4706 outside North America
The reality of the situation is that both the A shares and the B shares should be trading at the same value.
The voting power of the B shares is 6 times that of the A shares, however, you cannot place any intrinsic value on voting rights.
Most of those in the market for shares try to pick up either the A or the B's, which ever you can get at the lowest price. At the end of the day, after this process they will all be placed at the same value.
Of course, one would rather have more voting rights, but paying more for the B shares for this votiing is a bad strategy, IMO.
Zilla, I don't think you are going to be sorry with your acquistion of more shares.
For many months now, I have not been able to comprehend how the share price has not moved well beyond where it is today, and beyond the $1.40.
Just a matter of time, IMO, of course.
I think those who are patient will be the winners here, or at least that has been my strategy!
This company is too sound and has a product this cannot be replaced by anything else. Titanium dioxide. The world needs more of it every day and chloride technology based material is more scarce these days due to the ever growing demand. Tronox will be a winner.
MarMaro, other than the voting rights per share, there are no differences between the A and B shares.
The A shares get one vote each and the B shares get 6 votes per share.
Everything else is the same.
The B shares were held by Kerr McGee after the spin-off of Tronox and then they sold them over time.
Your question is commonly asked on this board.
Welcome to this board and good luck to all holders of Tronox shares. It is a great company with a great outlook for profit over the next several years, IMO. Also, IMO, it could also become an acquistion target after emerging from bankruptcy. What better time to sell than in the upside of the cycle?
Let's hope this week brings further escalation in price per share!
What is amazing is that the share price escalated up to $1.40 per share before with far less substantial information than the EC POR plan details released this past week.
I just don't understand why this isn't moving up much farther and faster given the news.
Hopefully, on Tuesday, we will see this break out to much higher levels where is should be.
The TiO2 markets on are fire. Prices are rocketing with no end in sight for the rest of this year, anyway. The profitability of Tronox should be improving daily, IMO.
Still at $92 from what I can see.
Yes, looking at it on iHub, but it is not there on Level 2.
penny,
Everytime I try to access trxbq.pk on the Level 2, I get a message that it is an invalid symbol.
How do you access trxbq.pk on the Level 2?
Great information, natomas.
I'm a bit surprised this information was not discovered a bit sooner, given that your information suggests it is dated the 9th August.
Bit by bit and day by day, the momentum has to start moving into the direction of the shareholders, IMO.
Time is running out for this to get organized.
In any event, I know the true value of this company and the market conditions are in favour of the titanium dioxide industry unlike any time in the past couple of decades.
Still hanging out in the background, everett.
I have come to realize this is just going to take longer than we thought, but I still hold to my initial beliefs that good will come to all shareholders.
Perhaps we are now getting just that much closer.
In any event, this news shows there is hope and a move in a positive direction.
Hope the activity on this board picks up again and we see some of our other good friends return.
Thanks, Iggles, this is helpful.
All the best!
B-I-N-G-O
Thanks, Madclown.
You seem to have access to the documents even before they are posted on KCC documents website.
I am hoping this is a positive sign here.
The profitability of the TiO2 industry is soaring.
One only has to look at the Kronos shares to see what is going on.
Hopefully, more good news in the days ahead.
Always appreciate you keeping us posted up to the minute!
Let's just hope some news breaks in the next day that will be in the favour of the shareholders.
What the government is trying to do here is approaching pure theft from the shareholders.
I'm still here too! Nice to see the reverse in the downward trend.
Check out the Kronos share price the past couple of days (KRO).
This is what Tronox should be doing!!!!!
everett, it ain't over till it's over.
This baby is far from dead for us.
Looks like we hit an early day support. Let's see how we hold for the day.
At this stage, we know the insiders have the control and know more than we do, which is criminal.
Personally, I am pleased to see a support level here and the "B" shares are holding in as well after the opening drop. We won't know until the trading session is over how we will hold up.
As you noted before, let them pull the shares from our bloody dead hands.
I refuse to lose composure here.
everett, I would suggest we see what the market does with the stock on the open today. It is interesting to see the bid and ask on Level 2 prior to the open. Higher than I expected, but low trade volumes. Perhaps the insiders already took this to a support level until more information is available.
We won't know until the open as to what the support level is, if any, we will see.
Too many unknowns and not enough information to set a floor level yet.
What we do know is that there are others who have more information than is public to make trades, which is disgusting.
I'm holding on based on how I view the valuation of this Company and I have confidence the EC is still fighting for us until death.
At this point, I could have bought a couple Ferrari's and smashed them into a wall and had more satisfaction.
Well, this one really caught me by surprise. It will be an interesting open to the market.
This certainly was not the outcome we were all looking for, however, I refuse to yet accept another plan won't emerge.
However, at this stage, this is starting to appear more like a crap shoot than investing on sound fundamental information.
Let's hope for some more definition and a better path forward. With the cash flow and profit being generated from Tronox, I just find it hard to believe the shareholders will be shafted so significantly.
The obvious insider trading on this news is criminal.
Newtech, I am as baffled by this as you are. I still feel the longer term value of Tronox is well above where it is trading today, but something is going on behind closed doors. The fundamental business is sound.......very sound.
I really do think the depressed share price has something to do with the environmental liability. However, I don't think it has as much to do with APC's exposure the the BP oil spill liability.
I think the government has seen how much the profitability of Tronox has improved, and now they are coming back to the table trying to get even more out of Tronox rather than via APC.
In any event, I hope something becomes public in the next 5 days by July 12th.
Something has changed in the outlook, and I have to think it can only be about environmental issues. And, somebody knows more about what is going on behind the black curtain than you and I do. As one poster noted a long time ago when he exited his position, once the government gets involved, you just never know what is going to happen. Especially under the current administration.
This said, Tronox is an extremely valuable company and other liabilities aside, the Company will be minting money for the next couple of years from the titanium dioxide side of the business.
My bet is that the share valuation is still well above where it is today within less than 6 months. I would like to see a real pop, however, in the next week.
Let's see if we learn more before the end of the week.
Regards to all.
Post #3767 will "paint" a better picture for you of the true titanium dioxide supply and demand situation, and pricing direction.
Titanium dioxide prices are at or near record levels and the supply shortage is global. A situation similar to this for TiO2 has not been experienced since the late 1980's.
Akzo, PPG Profit Squeezed by Paint Materials Shortage
June 30, 2010, 4:35 PM EDT
(Updates with closing share prices in 16th paragraph.)
By Jack Kaskey
June 30 (Bloomberg) -- The world’s largest paint makers are raising prices as they try to overcome a shortage of raw materials and keep store shelves stocked during the prime house- painting season in North America, Europe and Asia.
Akzo Nobel NV, which makes Dulux paint, and PPG Industries Inc., which produces the Olympic and Pittsburgh brands, have seen the price of acrylic acid, a resin that binds pigments together, jump 71 percent in the past 12 months. Titanium dioxide, which makes paint opaque, has risen close to a record this year, while there’s not enough methyl methacrylate, which is used to create weather-resistance.
Dow Chemical Co. and rival paint-ingredients suppliers shut plants in the recession and are suffering mechanical failures as their remaining factories are pushed to full output, said George Pilcher, vice president of Cincinnati-based industry consultant Chemquest Group. Demand in the $70 billion-a-year paint industry is growing, led by Asia and the recovering U.S. economy.
“I don’t see any of this clearing up before the end of the year,” said Pilcher, who formerly worked at Akzo, the world’s biggest paint maker, and Sherwin-Williams Co., the third- largest. “There won’t be enough house paint to go around.”
Dow, the world’s largest producer of acrylic, can’t fill all its orders, said Gregory Baldwin, a company spokesman. Dow and competing makers of paint ingredients probably won’t catch up with the backlog of acrylic-acid and methacrylate orders until September or October, Chief Financial Officer William H. Weideman said in a June 8 presentation.
Low Inventories
“Inventories are low all through the chain,” said Ian Davenport, a former director of Dow’s acrylics business who runs New York-based consultant Davenport International Associates.
“Pricing of paint absolutely must go up,” he said. “It’s a global issue.”
U.S. shoppers can expect to pay 5 percent more for paint, or almost $2 a gallon for premium brands, said Phil Phillips, president of Chemark Consulting in Southern Pines, North Carolina.
“We have or are in the process of increasing prices across the globe and in every product line,” Bill Mansfield, chief executive officer of U.S. paint maker Valspar Corp., said June 3 at a Goldman Sachs Group Inc. conference in New York. Higher prices may not be fully implemented until year end, he said.
Road paint is already in short supply. The Texas Department of Transportation last month suspended retracing to conserve material for new pavement. DuPont Co., the world’s biggest maker of automotive paint, has been forced to find new suppliers, said Panos Kordemenos, sourcing director for DuPont performance coatings.
Spanish Restart
About 10 percent of capacity for making titanium dioxide has been scrapped, including a plant in Grimsby, England, that was shut by Huntsman Corp., the fourth-biggest maker. Huntsman is advancing the restart of its plant in Huelva, Spain, by eight months to help meet demand for the pigment, known by its chemical formula, TiO2.
“If we get back to not euphoric highs but halfway, I can see where there will be some fundamental long-term supply shortages, not just in TiO2, but also in acrylics,” Huntsman’s Chief Executive Officer Peter Huntsman said in a phone interview from The Woodlands, Texas, where the chemical maker is based.
Earnings estimates for paint makers have been rising, even as improving demand makes supplies scarce. Whether profit margins get squeezed by higher costs depends on how quickly paint makers can increase consumer prices, Pilcher said.
Earnings Estimates
Earnings at Valspar, the world’s sixth-biggest coatings maker, are poised to increase 33 percent this year, the most since 2002, according to a Bloomberg analyst survey. Profit at Akzo may rise 32 percent, the biggest gain since 2004, and PPG’s profit may surge 46 percent, the most in at least a decade. Sherwin-Williams earnings may gain 15 percent, according to analysts’ estimates.
Shares of Akzo Nobel, with almost half its sales in Europe, fell 20.5 cents, or 0.5 percent, to close at 43.005 euros in Amsterdam trading. They have dropped 7.3 percent this year.
PPG, which generates almost half its sales in the Americas, has gained 3.2 percent in 2010. The shares fell 1 percent to $60.44 at 4:15 p.m. in New York. Sherwin-Williams, with 86 percent of sales in the U.S., fell 1.2 percent to $69.19 in New York. The shares are up 12 percent this year.
“We see tight supply in certain markets today, which we are monitoring closely and managing appropriately,” said Tim van der Zanden, a spokesman for Amsterdam-based Akzo Nobel.
Sherwin-Williams’s size will help it overcome shortages and keep shelves stocked at its 3,357 paint stores, said Mike Conway, a spokesman for the Cleveland-based company. PPG spokesman Jeremy Neuhart didn’t respond to requests for comment.
Plant Explosion
Acrylic-acid supplies tightened after a December explosion at American Acryl’s plant in Bayport, Texas, Davenport said. Dow is still limiting acrylic acid sales even after its Deer Park, Texas plant restarted following a February failure. Also in Texas, a center for the U.S. chemicals industry, Germany’s BASF SE limited sales ahead of a June maintenance closure at its Freeport plant, company spokesman Daniel Pepitone said.
Methyl methacrylate is in short supply after plant closures at Mitsubishi Rayon Co.’s Lucite unit, the largest producer, and an equipment failure at Dow’s Deer Park site. Arkema SA sued Dow last month to provide contracted quantities of the chemical.
Acrylic acid, which is also used to make absorbent material for diapers, increased to a record $2,440 a metric ton in May, according to data from ICIS-LOR, a chemical news and pricing service. Producers paid $1.12 a pound for titanium dioxide in March, 1 cent short of the record set in November 2006, according to data from Purchasing Magazine. About 60 percent of global TiO2 output goes into paint, Peter Huntsman said.
“We are holding our breath and hoping the chemical industry can respond to the increased demand and supply the product we need at an economical price,” said Tony Mash, chief executive officer of the British Coatings Federation.
--Editors: Simon Casey, Steven Frank
To contact the reporter on this story: Jack Kaskey in New York at jkaskey@bloomberg.net.
To contact the editor responsible for this story: Simon Casey at scasey@bloomberg.net
madclown, thanks for this. This is extremely important. Perhaps the most important information that we could receive that we don't already have. This will give us a clear window into the real profitabilty of the entire global business and allow us to derive a share value in-line with the disclosure information.
I look foward to any disclosure information that we can get our hands on.
I hope this happens quickly, like within days!
Good find, as always.
Regards.
Pinky and others on this board, thanks for your kind commments.
As others have noted before, especially Newtech, we have members on this board that all contribute in different ways to provide all of us with great information to stay on top of our investment in Tronox.
I just want to thanks to those of you who keep me informed as well.
So, Pinky, Ulmant, Newtech, everett, jaxstraw, madclown, paidmyway, mr. herzog, eclipse, Burr, zilla, and other great members on this board........a big thank you for all of your contributions and dialogue!
Hang in there and don't get overly concerned about what has happened to us the past couple of weeks. We've just hit a small pothole on the road to prosperity!
Everything will be ok, and a few months from now, I believe we will all be feeling much better about our position in Tronox and we will be rewarded for our commitment. We all know too much about Tronox and have done so much due diligence on this and we just cannot possibly be wrong on this one.
Pinky,
You raise a very good question here, but I think the simple answer to your question is, yes.
A few comments here:
1) I think the analysis conducted in the Tronox Valuation Letter posted on the bulletin board makes one of the best company valuations I have seen to date with the most reasonable assumptions. When the shares take a hit like they have recently, I often go back and read that letter to justify my reason for staying in this for the long run.
2) I have now owned Tronox shares for well over two years, like others on this board. I started buying long before the actual bankruptcy filing as I have long believed in the value of Tronox after bankruptcy. I even have some shares that were purchased at around $5.00/share!!! So, you can imagine how I was buying when the price went into the pennies per share range months ago.
3) I refuse to get overly alarmed here now that the share prices have fallen back to around 60 cents per share. This is just rediculous, especially when we are so close to having some news break within the coming several weeks. My only concern is that somebody knows something that we don't about the details of the restructure that is causing some panic selling. But with gold hitting new highs, it suggests there is just too much fear in the markets these days for some to hang in there for the long term.
4) In addition to an extrapolation of EBITDA from the MOR to the unconsolidated capacity of Botlek and Tiwest, I always use Kronos (KRO) as a guide to what the value of Tronox should be and what direction the share price should be moving. This is the most sound indicator of direction. Kronos is now holding at over $18/share, but Tronox has a better global footprint than Kronos and most likely, just as good if not better production cost position as Kronos after BKK.
5) When extrapolating EBITDA for Botlek and Kwinana (Tiwest), I would use 50% of the effective plant capacity of Kwinana which is around 110,000 metric tonnes per year of production, so, only use 55,000 metric tonnes to represent the Tronox 50% share in the Tiwest venture. The expansion (40,000 tonnes) at Kwinana is coming on line, however, Tronox has no income stream from that since that revenue at this time all goes to Exxaro, the other Tiwest partner. For Botlek, that plant capacity is only around 90,000 tonnes per year, however, for EBITDA extrapolation, I would assume effectively 85,000 metric tonnes. Remember also that Hamilton in the US is the largest capacity asset in the Tronox portfolio with a capacity of 230,000 tonnes per year, but for analysis, I would use an effective capacity of around 215,000 metric tonnes per year.
6) When you do all the math, I think you could add up to an additional 65% of EBIDTA from the MOR to the company associated with contribution from Botlek and Kwinana ((55,000 + 85,000)/215,000)= 65%.
7) The other factors that impact an EBIDTA analysis will be currency exchange rates of the euro and Australian dollar against the US$. This is actually helping the margins for Kwinana. For the euro and Botlek, it is probably neutral since the tonnes are produced and sold in euros, however, the conversion back to US$ will take a hit due to the weak euro.
8) The Botlek and Kwinana EBIDTA contributions may be even higher than that from Hamilton in the US since the offshore entities are not getting hit with all the restructuring and other charges that we see on the MOR. Also, there is some EBIDTA contribution from the electrolytic chemicals business in the MOR that may need some small adjustment for.
9) Selling prices have risen much higher and much faster in the Asia Pacific markets which will make the EBIDTA contribution from Kwinana on a per metric tonne basis look even better than Hamilton and Botlek. Prices have lagged in Europe and the US, however, they are now starting to move upward sharply, so forward EBITDA is going to be even higher from all the assets!
10) I refuse to sell my shares and I am convinced that by September, the share price will be much closer to $4.00 per share than today's price of 60 cents per share. This sell-off in recent days is absolutely rediculous. I have total confidence that the Equity Committee is working hard to protect the rights of all of us shareholders. The reality of the situation is that Tronox should soon be trading at over $10 per share unless something goes terribly wrong and the bond holders take an unfair excess of the company upon the restructure.
Pinky, TiWest is not reflected in the MOR, nor is the Botlek plant in Europe which remains a part of Tronox today.
The MOR only reflects only the US operations which are in bankruptcy. Europe operations (Botlek) and Australia operation (TiWest) are on a different balance sheet.
So, in the US, the income comes for the Hamilton assets and the small chemicals business. Savannah plant is for the most part shut down, but is part of the consolidated US business.
Pinky, yes, Tronox walked away from the German assets and they are no longer associated with any of the financial results for Tronox.
The only good news is that the fact that the German plant is even running is an indication of how strong the TiO2 markets are today.
The Uerdingen site was close to insolvancy itself before we saw the sharp rebound in demand and sales prices for TiO2.
It is a high cost based asset which we would prefer not to see in the Tronox asset portfolio after BBK.
uhlmant, I would agree with you on the pps of $12 within a year.
It would be great if we had some insight into the earnings of the other subs in Europe and Asia (Australia). But, we can use the MOR as a guide.
After emergence, the other upside to holding Tronox would be to get the future acquistion value of the company. I think Tronox could be sold within one to two years after coming out of bk.
If we can get to $10, I'll be happy, but there is more upside beyond this.