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Dan is a first rate professional and everyone should be highly appreciative of all he has contributed and all he continues to do to bring a out a good outcome for all shareholders.
While there are many reasons for us all as shareholders to be very dissatisfied I have very high confidence that a lawsuit will only made the stock and the company and our outcome even worse.
Hi Black Knight.
Your two points have different implications. The first , Solomon A shares. This is very much and Asian equity entrepreneur ownership structure. So there is nothing unusual about his A shares. It’s purposefully a control mechanism. I know we all find this completely disagreeable but that he is in control 100 percent is why I articulate to everyone that when u are in control it brings your mind into arrogant imperious mindset and no amount of urging by anyone will penetrate the arrogant imperious mind. We can try and will try to be persuasive but never believe logic and good business judgment will prevail. I have met and spent time with S on several business meetings. His ears don’t work.
As to the lawsuit. While I never give advice to others my view on that topics is 1) nothing good for shareholders would arise from such a lawsuit 2) many negative things would arise from a lawsuit 3) expenses would soar due to legal fees by the company. 4) it is a very risky action to take because a control owner could counter that with very adverse decisions that were not in the shareholders best interests. 5) it is actually something that would take many years to even see the courtroom. 5) by the time it reaches the courtroom millions in legal fees would we wasted 6) the company would be completely distracted by lawyers and sec and not focused on their core business. 7) it is not likely to be heard in time to resolve what shareholders want.
RD
Hi
While that would be logical and appropriate. If I understand what is about to happen , there is a lot of liability coming to the company and the Board from all that are going to sue everyone at the company. Seems to me not wise to walk into a speeding train ?
I am neither positive nor negative because I have no real insights beyond what you all hear. My view is at this stage of course there are risks and concerns as to what will happen but my feelings should not interfere with the fundamentals of the company
We all have the same hope.
That is a very good point indeed.
You are correct in all your points.
Worst case for all shareholders is we get free fish for life from these farms. ??
Yes to all those traits. And the key risk in any Asian ceo is their culture to believe all the cash flow of the company is there to spend any way they think. It is very different than western CEO’s who stay focused on their core business and if their is excess cash flow they dividend and buyback. In Asia it is a plague for ceo to just go off into any wild venture. This is a key risk to focus
Would you be kind enough to resend your post.
ANDREW flying
You and I are 100 percent in agreement that not 1 penny should have ever been spent on meat, restaurants, Hu plants, Abattoir, and all the other wild eyed entrepreneurial dreams. You are absolutely correct that it is that waste of tens of millions of dollars and distraction of management time that is one of the root causes of the stock misery we all have experienced. I intend to be relentless in expressing my views on any future expenditures on anything other than using 30%_50% to drive dividends to us the shareholders. This point , wasteful adventures , is a key risk of the prospective CEO for Triway. The “Asian “ ceo usually does go and waste lots of money into new areas. I intend to express my expectations that not 1 penny be allowed to be spent by the company ( Sino or Triway ) on anything other than fish and dividends.
Martin
Hi
I appreciate your perspective. It surely seems based on stock price and share issuance that there is a disregard for shareholders. I acknowledge many decision on the financial aspects should have been handled with more circumspection I do believe he does care and does respect shareholders. The difference is cultural , difference in the sequence of priorities and the perennial overestimation by entrepreneurs of when money will actually come in
Soroi
Hi
Thanks for taking the time to explain you did write a letter to Solomon and also the tone of your letter. I know he is the for most on this Board the antagonist , which he deserves to the financial extent of management , but when u write the CEO of any company a letter , my experience tells me the ones that have an impact are those written with substance and appropriate tone. Well done
Emptyone
Hello.
On the point of selecting the Triway CEO. Thanks for your insight. I intend to dialogue with Solomon and Dan on the process of interviewing and understanding the criteria a successful candidate should possess to become Triway CEO. It depends on what I hear as to whether I will or can contribute to the selection process. You and I agree the Triway CEO will be our future.
I welcome all to send e-mail communications to the company expressing their expectations. I might suggest doing that diplomatically. But I encourage all shareholders to communicate in writing to the company Investor relations
Patience is not something I have. My point about expressing the purpose of patience I might clarify. I have zero patience for all that has happened with the share dilution. I have zero patience with all the wasted monies on abattoir , restaurants , unnecessary over spending , I find all these actions completely inappropriate and disagreeable. My point is that if you are a shareholder , as I am , we have endured terribly in the share price decline. But the disposition of shares at this point when it appears the fundamentals of the company continue to make good operational progress means to me that if I lose patience out of frustration at this time , and sell then that impatience might cost me the opportunity to realize all the upside. I have no sense as to the outcome of the business , it’s financing , and especially the hiring of the Triway ceo all significant risk factors. But since I have already been assaulted with a 90 percent loss ( yes we can still lose from here ) I don’t want my impatience to turn me into an irrational investor. Hope that clarifies. I am completely totally impatient with all the issues we know could have been handled much better. And btw the company has not paid me back so I have done all shareholder a favor by not being inpatient and demanding repayment.
I have already made my point that I am negotiating with the company to have my loan repaid with about half in cash and half in stock but there is no resolution yet. I have stated both sides are going to be thoughtful as to how to pay me back
Yes I will enjoy a good celebration. But there is much we have to hope for to happen over the next few years.
RD and all others,
I am highly attuned to the very determental nature of the stock price decline. I was using the word stress , not do or die. I cannot ever make any suggestions for what others should do with their financial decisions. I am not making any suggestions, other than to state, what you RD have often elucidated , that the fundamentals are not represented by the stock price. Therefore if the fundamentals of the company are good ( we all agree the financial management needs more attention and we want that attention soon ) then try to see long term. I understand that might not be a choice for some , which I respect. I have no change in my view that if all the conditions I have set forth at length come to realization , that at that time shareholders should be highly demanding of Managment. I offer a thought that please at this time , it is not the right time to be thinking about negatives , just try to be patient. As painful as that is, just imagine if in a few weeks and few months the comapny gets this financing they have talked about, and you sold out at these prices.
Snow
Thanks for your correct insight. Many entrepreneurs fail at many business initiatives. It is only such failure that informs and teaches the lessons required.. trying to tell an entrepreneur before his experiencing failure to stick to ONE core business and don’t stray , is very rarely listened to advice. Look at the silliness of decisions and fof all the really driven entrepreneurs and there is a painful library of failed business ventures outside their core compentency. In our case the consequences have been devastating to stock price, dilution, for shareholders. Painful lessons learned indeed by the entrepreneur , at our shareholder expense. Maybe , if there ever is really true executive management hired to run Triway, ( still a big risk ) , will that company not venture away from fishing. By understand , I rarely met any Asian executive that don’t stray from their core business it is a illness of mindset in Asia to always go into far away business with shareholder money. So this remains a key factor of risk
RD
Hi
I never make any recommendations, nor should anyone every make any financial decisions based on my thoughts expressed. I only share my views and insights with the desire they might be of some positive value for all shareholders during these highly stressful declining stock prices to hear some views that take a long range outlook. I believe as everyone knows there remains plenty of risks here, but with the fundamental operations of the fish farms continuing to perform well, that there is a lot to be hopeful for. But it all does not matter until the company engages , hires, listens to , and creates a sound financial management team with significant experience in taking a company from its small inception to much larger levels of success. At this time an highly driven entrepreneur is making all decisions , which none surprise me, as I have worked with many highly successful entrepreneurs in Asia and USA , and their drive system tells them only one thing, grow the business the shareholder will be rewarded latter. If the entrepreneur does not ultimately hire excellent financial management then those successful entrepreneurs company may not acheive their full financial valuation success. Some times despite lacking financial management these entrepreneurial companies do acheive some financial valuation success, but to really achieve optimal financial valuation success requires skills present in proven expertise of Management
Empty one
Hi
Thank you for your comment. May I ask please why you believe I am doing what you are saying. I never tell anyone what decision is appropriate for their financial condition or for this company. I am sharing my views, have always stated, and will repeat here, that I have no ability to influence or make the management do anything on any issue. Like all shareholders I can express my views, which may not have any influence , and certainly has no decision authority. If you believe I am trying to tell anyone what to do with their individual stock decision then I should clarify here. I share my view, my insights and my state of mind, in no way should any individual ever make any decision for their financial management based on my views, or my insights or my state of mind.
With that all disclosed , hopefully putting to rest the statement by Emptyone , I have a long range patience here , view this as a private equity venture capital enterprise,run by a pure entrepreneur , who has strengths operationally but lacks , like most entrepreneur inventors , the financial Management experience and capabilities required to take a fledgling company beyond the start up stage. I believe his entrepreneurial vision is excellent and the operational achievement noteworthy. The final steps , getting excellent business management , getting a good ceo for Triway, getting more financial management with experience in a public company all are required to make this a potentially winning investment. Since none of the new management types are hired and operating with decision making authority that is a significant risk for all shareholders. If none of the financial and operational management are hired at some point with decision making authority then this will likely not acheive its full stock valuation potential. I remain hopeful, but that is not a good strategy. I will articulate to Management , who may not listen to my views, they need additional financial management.
Have never sold a share, so wrong again
RD
Hi
Your thinking on paying a dividend is , same as my view, an important , necessary , and likely decision that should be made in the affirmative, but conditional on each of my points made previously. We all are under a lot of stress with the stock price, however, the fundamental success of the fish farms has not changed, and continues to made progress and improve. I know it is extremely difficult to get financing banks to make their final decision due to the extensive bureaucracy involved. As to dividends , I continue to advocate with strong empirical research provided to Sino Management that structuring a dividend payout plan, based on sound financing ( not yet a condition that exists ), will do more for shareholders when paid continuously for many quarters , and years ahead. I don’t have any ability to predict when, but I remain optimistic if / when the sound financial conditions exist ( not as I or you would define them but as I have defined such conditions ) then we as shareholders will have every right to be demanding of management.
I agree that this is very stressful to all shareholders. However,despite the significant decline in stock price as long as you don’t sell , I have never sold a share, then when this strategy comes good , all shareholders will realize whether or not this very bold and aggressive approach will generate a great return
Rd. Thanks for your insights. I only share my views. I never speak for others. I am agreeing they can and should make a dividend. But they will not , is my sense. As a person who built a business from the ground I think the same , which means nothing matters until the companies long range financial needs are secured. With all due respect , in my views all prior talk about dividend were never viewed or considered by me as having a credible basis in reality.
Now they can and should pay dividends. I would really like them to pay some dividends , right ? I also own a few shares. But the decision reflects one mindset , which I am only sharing my observation that West culture and East culture are opposing in mindsets. Hope that helps. You and I agree. I am only trying to share a perspective , one based on doing a lot of business in Asia and having come to understand how Chinese owner CEO think , and act. Their mindset and actions are just not congruent to how Western investors think.
This is a critical decision to get right
RD
I fundamentally believe the management is considering a dividend. Let’s set that as my view. However I believe it would be inappropriate , perhaps not unlikely , for the company to make any dividend announcement announcement until such time they know with certainty when and how much they will distribute. So thanks for getting more specific. My view like everyone else’s is loose statements by management without any credible ability to deliver on those statements is what has harmed credibility. Why conduct the same behavior as in the past. What would happen if management makes a dividend announcement , which is a very serious commitment , and the financing does not materialize on some timeline they need to be in a position to actually make the dividend payments. My point is stop making statements at a time before you can ( yes we agree I know they can make the dividend without financing but I have the view and belief that will be quite unlikely given the entrepreneur state of mind that all cash goes to feed the starving company. )
So putting it together ... when they have the millions in excess cash should they then make the dividend announcement. I would only believe in such an announcement with those conditions. If they make a dividend announcement without excess cash ( getting the financing , getting paid back from Triway ) then it is back to hoping their do something they have never done ... out shareholder ahead of feeding the company.
As you correctly point out , on this I indeed hope I am wrong as shareholders I am completely in favor of them not putting the company 100 % ahead of the shareholders.
But let’s think positively. If their claim that they are likely getting this big financing then my observation is what is the rush to make a dividend announcement a few months early. As you and we all know the stock is already at these unbelievable low prices
Emptyone
Thanks for the support and under the conditions that we all acknowledge if shareholders are not treated appropriately I will indeed be assertive ( I have already communicated with respect and diplomacy ) to management.
We agree that I have a say. So I should be more precise when I say I have no say. Let use this language , I can say all I want , however , because I have no decision making rights and no executive authority what I say has no means to cause an outcome. It might be heard , it might be acted upon or it might be ignored or it might be placed into a mix. All I know for a fact is if we shareholders have no decision making rights , which is accurate , then do not expect what we say or demand to cause any action. Of course management that listens to shareholders would likely consider the majority of shareholders views. But management owns all decision making rights. Finally, I believe having a say , means understanding the different culture between East and West. I believe I understand the difference and hence act as I have. Others that have taken their approaches have both no say and no one listening. I prefer to have the approach that continues managements listening. That solves more good in my view.
This is all to reiterate that once the needs of Triway are addressed if they ever get solid long term financing will management then put an appropriate emphasis on shareholder friendly activities , until then in my experience and demonstrated by management for 8 years our view as to what management should do , simply does not take priority. I want to say that I do believe management cares about shareholders but only in the context of doing every first that gets the vision of the company achieved.
We agree completely. But we don’t matter unfortunately in making that decision.
Emptyone
Hi
Thanks for your observations on my desire to work with management. I know it might seem that pushing harder is something that makes sense. I understand the sentiment. But I do believe there are means and methods to achieve good outcome here. I know we all have the same objective...get the stock price to reflect the fair value. I am doing just that
We all agree it has been terrible for shareholder for 8+ years. In no way did I intend to omit or excuse the behavior of management that has caused all the stock price decline. Just offering an observation that many also see , which is the company fundamentally is performing , but the financing of such company has been terrible for shareholders but hope in the future it turns around. Yes hope is not a great strategy but that is required to believe staying invested makes sense
Believe me there is a lot of diplomatic engagement involved constantly to over come all these very challenging governmental and big bank bureaucracies.
RD
Let’s please be in agreement that technically the Board does have the responsibility. But can we please appreciate the Board is not going to be successful telling Solomon what to do , if he sees it differently , which as an entrepreneur , the company needs come first and in the mind of an entrepreneur there is #2. This is where it would be useful in my view to appreciate that this is not going to be a balance , it is all for Triway first. Then and only when Triway is fully served , would shareholders needs be considered. Btw, this mindset is the same across all driven single minded entrepreneurs. Your thoughts and points are correct , but not in the mind of a driven entrepreneur. Once the company achieves the entrepreneurs goals will shareholder get their reward
Aqua
Hi
We all agree with what you said , however, the words spoken in Chinese and American have two meanings. As my experience tells me we hear with different ears
No one including management , in my opinion, knows when or if they will receive the financing. The issues with China capital controls ( they are clamping down hard ) by monetary authorities makes this a unpredictable situation. please recognize the company cannot tell Chinese or other Asian banks higher policy authorities to get this loan issued. The management works with these authorities and the authorities are all bureaucrats only following the rules. And the ruling conditions within and across China are and have been and will be for an unknown time to slow down and limit cash flows into and out of the country.
RD,
Hi
While your points are good and valid. I believe ,the mindset of management will not be influenced to prioritize the shareholders, at this time, over Triway production and funding. All shareholders want a coherent approach to paying dividends which you and I agree they could have done already by putting aside a certain amount of dollars and spread out to pay dividend for the next 4 quarters. That would be ideal. From a shareholders perspective makes sense. Not from an entrepreneurial mindset. While I have no sense of management future direction I think they want to secure the loan , which assures TriWay buildout and production continuity. Then ,upon meeting the only priority at present for management , do I sense they would put the shareholders receiving a dividend from ongoing assured cash flow from operations to be announced to shareholders. We are all experiencing fatigue , but let’s stay optimistic for the next few months and hope they get financing
You are right to think it should be straightforward to get the government to lend SIAF money. However, in China there is a budget available from the govt ( via the banking system they control) that set a strict limit on the amount of loans each bank can make. And the govt essentially also directs the banks as to which companies get loans. In effect only the largest, SOE , and other large essential companies that employ tens of thousands of people get loans. All medium and small companies in China suffer a lack of bank funding, all of them, not just SIAF.
RD,
HI,
We agree that the only dividend approach that sustainably grows the stock price is a consistent quarterly dividend. The company should , in my view, not make any policy before they have long term financing that structurally secures all the capex build out for Triway. Then the company should , although I have no say in their decision , have the ability to make a policy based on expected cash flows coming from Triway. If they announce a policy before securing long term financing, they might not be able to act on their announcement if the financing does not arise.
If the company gets significant long term funding , then a discussion as to dividend policy and payout rates will occur in serious terms. Nothing will or should happen prior to securing long term financing