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Nice analogy. I was reading all of the "who saved CLSC" posts and picturing a bunch of people floating on debris in the ocean. As a great white shark swims near, they all start jumping for joy that submarine has come to save them.
You did and you were right.
I still maintain one point from one of our debates - that you have to give me. It doesn't matter whether the product works or not. If you find a need, and market to it right, people will buy it. Lot's of snake oil out there making lots of people rich because its being marketed by real companies who know who to make themselves AND their shareholder rich. We just didn't have leaders who had that as a true objective - just themselves, screw the shareholders.
Sorry to all of you who sunk a lot into this.
fatchix - Do you have any links on CS ? I couldn't find much on him all along. In fact, started to think he was a conjuring. Found plenty on Chas and his father. Definitely some quirky stuff out there.
Now there's someone who appreciate good sarcasm, along with a bit of hyperbole! Like that post!
Seriously ? I guess sarcasm just doesn't come through on these posts. Of course they didn't get the $20 mill sold. It was all part of the game. Where are Chas and his father from ? Why is a major shareholder called St. Petka Trust ? Who is St. Petka ? What country did the PO come from ?
Damn, there will be lots of allergic Russians who will be pissed off and looking for their Prehistin. I think it was $20 Million worth ? If that wasn't fraud, what was ?
I think everybody is in bed with everybody and we're the only ones getting screwed but not enjoying it.
Yep. We're on the same page. I guess to say explicitly what I am implying is that if something is fishy here, then it seems to me that CS might be a little smelly too. You don't invest millions like he has without some idea of what's going on. Or he is just a bad investor like the rest of us seem to be.
Yes, sufferers will see the product if it works. YA will grab the patents and sell them for a hefty profit. Someone else will put it on the market IF it works.
One major assumption in your logic is that he paid ~$.10/share, which is how you came up with him being $4MM in hole. Since they haven't been filing financials in forever, you don't know what he actually paid out of pocket and into the company for those shares. You also don't know what money left the company to him during the last few years through direct or indirect means.
Think about what the total debt was to YA when all of this started. If Stern was actually going to come in and shell out $4MM in cash, he would have simply bought the debt, which I think was originally in the $3MM range and topped out around $5MM prior to judge ordering $120M monthly payments. Other deals and details exist that are not known to us.
I agree with everything except the statement that they would not be going court w/o financials filed. I would agree with that if the court docket was only for motions filed by CLSC. But there are also motions filed by YA, at least one of which is to convert to Ch. 7. CLSC has no choice but to show up, with or without financials in order.
We own the stock, but we have no way of knowing what it is worth, how many shares are outstanding, etc. until they are back in good standing and trading on some board again. So it is essentially worthless. If today it gets pushed to Ch. 7, it is game over. We own nothing unless we are willing to step up and buy the debt, pay it off or whatever. Ch 7. is essentially cut up the assets and give them to the creditors to cover as much of the debt as possible.
I guess you are free to come on here and make statements prefaced with things like "word on the street" all you want. But you must live on a lonely street. Because you're the only one with those words. I truly hope you are correct and wish it to be true. But think about it. If CS was going to drop another $8MM into this, that would completely pay off the YA debt. There would be no reason to go to court. He would pay it, they would file for relief from CH 11 on the grounds that had paid off the debt, and they would use the rest of the money (~3MM I think) to start executing on all of the promises from the past. YA would be wasting its one time and money trying to push for Ch 7 knowing they would lose.
Of course we would all own far fewer shares, because such an investment would certainly dilute the heck out of our shares. But I think we would all take it in a heart beat. Fewer shares of something is better than more shares of zero.
Fee free to pump all you want, but please use logic when doing so, Chas, I mean Carmine.
I haven't even looked, so I apologize if the court results have been posted and have already answered the questions. The simple answer is, if CLSC is forced into Ch 7, the stock is worthless. The assets of the company are valued and distributed to the creditors as part of the ruling, per prior guidelines and precedents. The patents are considered an asset (possibly the only asset) of the company, and so would go to the creditors, in this case YA.
That's what I was looking for in my question about the other hearing. It was inconsequential. This is the real deal.
Understand, but the docket entry you posted says it is hearing on a specific motion by YA to dismiss a specific claim CLSC. It does not say it is a hearing to determine final disposition on YA motion to convert. However, there may be additional agenda items on the docket that you didn't post. I just don't want the expectation that this is do or die out there, and the it doesn't happen, and the all of the pumpers are back on claiming victory because there is still a single light bulb flickering.
"Motion to Dismiss Plaintiff's Fourth Amended Complaint"
Why do we think this is some culminating event ? This is nothing. This is just a hearing on YA's motion to dismiss one of CLSC's complaints, which we already know is going to happen. There have been many, many such hearings on other motions. Am I missing something ?
Bottom line is, the culminating event happened a long time ago. We just didn't listen to somebody who was signing while the lights were being turned out and the party was over.
I don't think you're paranoid. That's why I started taking different approaches - to see what the responses and results would be. It was an interesting experiment. And this message will likely be deleted since I didn't say anything about CLSC in it.
When you're right, you're right.
I know we had a litte fun debating with each other, but for the record by the time that started I was already checked out on this. In fact, I never really said the company was well run, I said it doesn't matter if the product works or not. Now that I think about, that works both ways. They could have the cure for cancer in a pill, and these guys would just scam investors or run it into the ground, whichever they were doing. I was slammed over a year ago for being negative about this stock, so I took the other approach for fun to see what happened. Like I said in our debates, I didn't have much at all in this really. Less than I made last week in my day job. But it would have been nice to see something happen. However, I concur and admit you were right all along. The whole thing stinks. I found some references to several of those guys in other deals. Not going to say anything that can be construed as intentionally defamatory, but perhaps others should look past the fist page or two of Google search results.
Dude, can you pick up my sarcasm ? I hope so because I was laying it on pretty thick.
What are you people talking about ? This thing will be trading in a few days, and the Russian deal is kicking in, finally. Also, the direct Dr.'s office channel is finally starting to produce, thanks to the marketing firm that CLSC partnered with in Florida. Oh yeah, watch the Yankees/Red Sox series this weekend for MLB backstop advertising. Also, the Direct TV ads finally got approval and will be airing across the nation shortly. The accounting firm that was hired a couple of years ago to get CSLC on Nasdaq finally get back to work. Seems some of their key staff was abducted while doing some auditing of the Russian company and the State Dept. finally got them back. So they'll be done with their books shortly now that they're back in full swing. I heard a rumor that Prehistin is up for another award of the decade or something. Something about best placebo effect for vitamin B. And finally, Chas submitted Prehistin for a patent, apparently the sublingual thing works even better via colo-rectal delivery - with which all of us shareholders are all to familiar.
And in the words of the GEICO gecko, "This is a complete dramatization".
On what do you base the faith in Mary and Chas ? Do you know them ? Have you done business with them ? I'm not asking that in a challenging way, just really looking for a reason to have faith.
I have googled Chas pretty deeply. I did find some references to past dealings that did not look too pretty. I'm hoping he was just in the wrong place at the wrong time.
Here is the entire text of the ruling. It is under 7/27
NONE LISTED -
Courtroom Deputy:
This is a hearing on the court’s sua sponte Orders to Show Cause filed in both pending cases,
8:07-12347TA (‘first case”) and in 8:11-39429 EC filed in the Los Angeles Division, renumbered
as 8:11-19915TA and transferred to this court (“second case”).
There has been a confirmed plan in the first case since 6/10/2010. The deep misgivings recited
in the court’s Statement of Decision on Plan Confirmations entered 4/07/2010 about feasibility of
that plan have unfortunately proved all too prescient. Apparently, the millions in sales of
PreHistin® projected by debtor to be realized by now have not come to pass, not even nearly.
Instead, as reported by YA Global Investments, L.P. (“YA Global”) and verified in the record,
debtor has defaulted on most of the monthly installment payments due escrow (on account of YA
Tentative Ruling:
7/26/2011 4:58:18PM Page 35 of 52
Judge Theodor Albert, Presiding
Courtroom 5B Calendar
United States Bankruptcy Court
Central District of California
Santa Ana
Wednesday, July 27, 2011 Hearing Room 5B
10:00 am
Cont.... Cobalis Corporation Chapter 11
Global’s disputed claim), usually to be cured at the very last moment in the grace period, just before
immediate foreclosure by YA Global was permitted under the plan. Nothing at all has been paid to
other unsecured creditors. Although no reliable reports have been presented, because no post
confirmation status reports have been recently filed, it would appear that much of the funding to
date has come from yet additional investments from Chaim Stern. Some sales of PreHistin®
through drugstore chains have reportedly occurred but these are obviously far too few and too late
(reportedly $707,821 to date with another $225,309 reportedly ordered). Mr. Marion’s declaration
adds very little that is new except now it develops that retail sales did not even commence until
December of 2010, at least six months after confirmation. He continues the “just around the
corner” predictions which have been offered many times before but sound rather hollow now. The
point is this is too little and far too late and are not, in any event, nearly enough to support the plan.
Moreover, under debtor’s litigation strategy, the amounts owed the secured creditor, YA Global,
have now increased dramatically, so any future prospect that debtor can earn its way out of this
appears all the more remote. This is not to say that pursuit of legitimate claims is not appropriate
but now, regrettably, this case has become all about “doubling down” on litigation and less about a
successful earn out. It seems to the court that a Chapter 7 Trustee can as readily evaluate whether
further pursuit of litigation makes sense in the interest of creditors. Recently, the stock was
suspended from all trading by the SEC.
Added to this lamentable failure is the flurry in the last five months of ill-advised and
unsupported motions from the debtor (and Rey Olsen dba Montengrex who appears to be acting in
tandem with debtor) trying to dismiss the first case or to amend the provisions of the plan regarding
escrowing of the YA Global payments including fees, on what can only be described as specious
grounds. When the most recent of such motions was denied July 6, 2011, the second case was filed
July 8. Curiously, debtor chose to file the second case not in this court but in the Los Angeles
Division. There is no connection between this case and the Los Angeles Division and the home
address of the current CFO is obviously no proper grounds for such venue. The debtor’s address
and headquarters has always been 16795 Von Karman, Irvine. One can only conclude that there
was some nefarious purpose in filing in the Los Angeles division, such as to buy yet another few
weeks of time through the inevitable delay required by a transfer from that division to this court.
Counsel’s argument that the filing in Los Angeles was proper, or at least innocent or designed
merely to accommodate his somewhat closer office, is nonsense. He well knows that this is a
related case and would inevitably be transferred to this court under the “low-number” rule. That
7/26/2011 4:58:18PM Page 36 of 52
Judge Theodor Albert, Presiding
Courtroom 5B Calendar
United States Bankruptcy Court
Central District of California
Santa Ana
Wednesday, July 27, 2011 Hearing Room 5B
10:00 am
Cont.... Cobalis Corporation Chapter 11
filing in wrong venue, however, has had quite another effect. In so doing debtor’s management
forfeited whatever small credibility they might still have possessed.
Failure to consummate a confirmed plan within a reasonable time and/or default under terms of
a plan is clearly “cause” for conversion. 11 U.S.C. §1112(b)(4)(M) and (N); Pioneer Liquidating
Corp. v. U.S. Tr. (In re Consol. Pioneer Mortg. Entities), 264 F. 3d 803, 807 n.2 (9th Cir. 2001); In
re Mobile Freezers, Inc., 146 B.R. 1000, 1004 (Bankr. S.D.Ala. 1992). Failure to meet sales
projections, which prevent the reorganized debtor from meeting plan payments, is likewise grounds
for conversion for default. Greenfield Drive Storage Park v. Cal. Para-Prof’l Servs., Inc., (In re
Greenfield Drive Storage Park), 207 B.R. 913, 917 (9th Cir. BAP 1997). Filing in bad faith is also
cause for conversion or dismissal. Chu v. Syntron Bioresearch Inc. (In re Chu), 253 B.R. 92, 95
(Bankr. S.D.Cal 2000). Moreover, the court may consider a second bankruptcy filing during the
pendency of a Chapter 11 case when evaluating bad faith. In re Studio Five Clothing Stores, Inc.,
192 B.R. 998, 1007 (Bankr. C.D. Cal. 1996); In re Delaware Valley Broadcasters Ltd., 166 B.R.
36, 39 (Bankr.Del .1994). Debtor offers the dubious argument that this second case lacks some of
the hallmarks of a bad-faith filing because: (1) unlike many real estate cases, there is not a single
property which is the centerpiece of the case and (2) there was no true serial filing because the first
case began as an involuntary petition. So, the argument goes, debtor only really has one strike, not
two. Neither argument holds any water. This is about a single asset, the PreHistin® technology
and monies from sales of that product, and/or investments therein, which are now escrowed under
the terms of the plan. Even less persuasive is the argument that there is not a serial filing. The
debtor most clearly determined to have a go at a reorganization effort in 2007 during the first case
by stipulating to relief and simultaneously converting to Chapter 11. If there is any practical
difference between that and a voluntary filing, the court does not see it.
It is obvious to the court that the second case was a bad faith attempt to prolong the inevitable
foreclosure by YA Global by improperly invoking a second automatic stay after the confirmed plan
had gone into default. Further, the attempt to extract even more delay by an improper filing in the
Los Angeles Division strips this management of any remaining veneer of good faith and compels
the court to take immediate remedial action.
Only one point made by the debtor has any traction. Further to FRCP 1017, the court is
concerned that all interested parties should have notice before the case is converted. It is not
7/26/2011 4:58:18PM Page 37 of 52
Judge Theodor Albert, Presiding
Courtroom 5B Calendar
United States Bankruptcy Court
Central District of California
Santa Ana
Wednesday, July 27, 2011 Hearing Room 5B
10:00 am
Cont.... Cobalis Corporation Chapter 11
inconceivable that one or more interested parties may come forward to present some reason (such
as a cash buyout) that might inure to the benefit of some party in interest other than YA Global.
The Certificate of Notice accompanying the OSC in the first case shows mailing by the court to
only about ten parties. The court is under the impression that there are quite a few more parties in
interest than that. A brief continuance to accommodate notice of about two weeks is therefore
indicated, and the parties must cooperate in ensuring that a comprehensive notice is sent.
Convert first case unless compelling reason is presented after about two-week notice and
hearing. Dismiss second case.
Not much reason to read beyond this excerpt from court:
The deep misgivings recited
in the court’s Statement of Decision on Plan Confirmations entered 4/07/2010 about feasibility of
that plan have unfortunately proved all too prescient. Apparently, the millions in sales of
PreHistin® projected by debtor to be realized by now have not come to pass, not even nearly.
But if you do, it only gets worse. The two weeks is a move by the court to protect itself, giving notice to all interested parties in case there is a party out there interested in coming up with the millions required to buy this out. Not going to happen.
By the way, we were all speculating the Sterm's investments were going straight into paying the monthly requirement to YA. Apparently not. It says they defaulted on most of the those and would then come up with an amount at the eleventh hours just before YA would be able to foreclose. But they apparently didn't even come up with the full amounts since the court states that the debt it now even deeper.
Game over. Tax write off. As someone said, I think Scan, if something good happens it's just a pleasant surprise.
Does this make sense ?
The company isn't filing accounting. The major issue with that is that as a public company, a certain level of transparency and visibility as to what is going on is required. So you get a bunch of threats and a lot of time to get it right. And if you don't get it right and start filing, the punishment is revoking Exchange Act registration ? This results in even less transparency because now the only way anyone will see anything is if we peon shareholders get an attorney and make some claims. Of course we have no basis for such claims other than speculation because we have no visibility - the very thing for which the revocation was made! So now principals are free to do what they want, including Ch. 7, and for all we know any money that was poured into this company, including that by our wonderful benefactor CS, went right out the back door. The numbers 5247 come to mind.
BK - Thanks for a better reply than I was going to give.
@Zeus - I was in arguments with someone a few weeks ago who said the company was going to fail because the product doesn't work. My position then was that it didn't matter because people will buy it anyway. Same logic applies here. I didn't buy stock so I can tell all my friends I own stock that, although worthless, made it to the semifinals for some award.
Mgt. always only care about their own pockets. That's what they're in business for. However, in many (most?) cases what lines management's pockets is to make the shareholders happy, which is done by executing plans, generating revenue, and ultimately making profit. When they don't do that, the shareholders typically fire management. In this case however, as is the case with most penny stocks, mgt can play games like this and fire us shareholders. It's part of the risk of investing in penny stocks and at least part of the reason the stock was only worth pennies. For those that have been in much longer when it was $1+, I can only sympathize, not empathize. But like others said, wait around until the end of the year to see what happens. You can write it off in Jan. Until then, maybe lottery ticket odds happen. I've said a while back, I don't have a lot of money in this, but I still bought in hoping for a big payout. I'm just disappointed I didn't get out at some point last year when all of the hype just wasn't making sense.
To all of you Einsteins who are actually posting more promises and hype from management, I offer this:
"Insanity is doing the same thing, over and over again, but expecting different results."
— Albert Einstein
At this point I'll take lottery ticket odds.
@Longjohn64 - I'm the one who is supposed to be in p1SS1n6 matches with fatchix. What r you doing on my turf ? LOL
@Chix - I'm on your side this time. It's all opinion and conjecture, as I've always said on here. This time however, the bs sniffer is on high alert re: why no financials.
CS share purchases - Who said Stern was really sinking that money into the company ? For all we know it was going in one door and out the other. Or just sitting in a bank account waiting for this so he and Chas can cash it all in tomorrow. A guy does not buy in for another $85K on Tuesday only to have this happen on Thursday, and he doesn't have a clue what's coming. Chas and Stern aren't ashamed. They're proud of what they pulled off, mini-Madoff's that they are (except better because they aren't going to prison, yet ;).
Yeah. I know. Just throwing a little humor in. Again, some people will jump you for saying anything positive here, but it used to be the other way around. Disappointing that it takes so long, but it is what it is. And unless someone has conspiracy theories to smash it, the fact is stuff is on shelves, and the execs actually answered some questions (whether we believe them or not is another matter, but at least they replied). They said something about marketing or ads re: the retail channels not long ago but no evidence of that yet. So either we will be trading and making money by 12/21/12, or the Mayans have it..... or we'll all still be on here endeavoring to persevere.
And oh, yeah, the Florida marketing firm with the direct Dr. office channels :)
I think they are waiting for Dec. 21, 2012 and hoping the Mayans and Hopi's have it right.
Totally with you mad g. I think the media blitz would just tick people off and come across as more of the same old PR with no meat approach that we've seen before. Hold off, do some of the real stuff Marion claims they are doing, get trading again. Do some media stuff at or around that time.
I'm with you, greek. No news is good news (alright, in deference to my recent nemesis, fatchix, "no news is not so bad news").
An investor call will just be hype. When something's happening we'll know.
Meanwhile, not to spur more pessimism and debate, but does anyone know anything about legality and/or precedence around just keeping this in a non/limited trading state indefinitely ? I'd rather just have them go under so I can write it off than have my money just sitting in purgatory. Burning it would feel bad, but at least it would be a feeling of some kind. I've read that prisoners in sensory deprivation often injure themselves just to be reminded that they are alive.
So while I'm not arguing with fatchix about whether a product needs to work or not. And while I'm not being informed of how ignorant I am or whatever, I'll take the minute to say I completely agree with you. I doubt this will ever get trading again too, which is a shame. I'm not sure what the goal was putting this out on CVS shelves without any marketing and with no follow up after a couple of months. But it seems like it was another desperate attempt to show us shareholders something is happening, when it really isn't. What are the real details around how his got on shelves ? Someone know someone at CVS ? Was it a consignment deal to try to move a bunch of boxes that were sitting around Chas's basement ?
So much potential here. So little achievement.
Yes, fatchix, I said something negative about Cobalis. I've don't that many times in the past. Used to get slammed by Carmine for it.
For the record, I have not stated a position at to whether it works or not. I have only said that it can sell, whether it works or not. Again, I don't care if it works. I just want it to sell. Some people are all caught up in arguments over old clinical trials and efficacy results, etc.
People will buy it if we can get it out there in bigger way, with real marketing and advertising. Vitamin C and the other herbs in Airborne are a lot cheaper than Airborne itself. Do they work to prevent colds ? Who knows ? Who cares ?
But then again, I'm glad it's not happening in a big way while the stock is not trading, I guess.
Knownow- I tried that logic. It apparently didn't stick. Agendas tend to be Teflon to logic.
Knowknow - all you needed read was the following excerpt: "that are based in the truth as far as I can see it.". Of course no one can prove that wrong. Who would want to ? LOL. The superficiality of the verbosity is eclipsed only by the pomposity of the grandiosity.
I'm not even reading this. Good luck covering your shorts. You've revealed through your diatribes what your motivation is. That's all I wanted. I don't need you validate my opinions. If you're correct and this is a dead stock with nothing else to gain, then why are you wasting your time here ? You should move on to another board and go short something else. IMO You can only be sticking around because you have an agenda. Hopefully I've engaged you enough so that others can see that agenda and will use data to form their opinions instead of your constant bashing. It's like you're bizzaro Carmine or something.
Fatchix - it's been fun, but I'm of the opinion you only read and hear what you want to hear. You seem to find arguments and disagreements in everything I say, even when I haven't even said many of those things. So I will try to keep it simple for those who would like to understand. If you would like find more arguments, feel free. I like to chuckle. But seriously, Lexipro. So here are the only two real things I am saying.
1. A product does not have to work or pass an FDA "test" of any kind other than being safe for human consumption in order to sell and make money. I listed several examples. I did not say they work. I said they sell. Thanks for confirming that point for me.
2. If a stock is trading, and the company is a product company, then a watershed event like getting the product on retail shelves does almost always have the effect of increasing the share price. I did not say Chas knows how to run a company. I did not comment on the reason for not trading. I do not care. I just want it trading.
Those were my only two real statements, and I really don't think there is much to debate about them. You did however, do us all one other favor. You confirmed you've shorted this stock, and thus we can use that information to judge what motives you might have and why you will not allow anyone to say anything remotely positive without launching into diatribes. We could be wrong, but IMO the odds are overwhelming that the motives have just been exposed. Again, thanks for the confirmation.
Finally, I did not say anything about my trading prowess. I have none. I know the drug industry and I have done well with a few of those stocks - simply based upon knowledge of what it takes to get drugs to market, what profit a mfg. or patent holder (often not the same entity) can make, and what's in their research pipeline . I never claimed to know anything about the drug store industry, nor did I make any statements that require such knowledge.
Again, two things:
1. A product's provable effectiveness does not always correlate to its a sales potential. Often times, useless products sell.
2. Product based companies, who put product on the shelves of major retail chains, tend to see increases in share price when stock of said company is trading normally.
Chas sucks. Something fishy is going on with accounting, shares are diluted, and all of that. But 1 and 2 above still hold true.
Seriously, have you consulted your doctor about any number of good antidepressants on the market ?
Airborne didn't sell a lie. They packaged and marketed well known home treatments for boosting the immune system. They saw a demand, put a product together, and pounced. Same for the others I mentioned. Cobalis is trying to do the same with Prehistin.
The main argument, if that's what it must be, is that we all (those of us who own stock) saw that potential market and agreed that this product could sell. So we bought in. We didn't care and still don't care about whether it is a "drug" that "failed" a clinical trial. Would we like it have gotten approval to be marketed that way ? Of course. But that particular clinical trial was simply a means to get the product to market. That ship sailed years ago and the plan of attack has changed drastically since then. Yet you keep bringing it up as though it is relevant today. Cobalis can and will market this vitamin remedy for allergy prevention with full FDA approval to do so as long as the marketing and packaging include the proper labeling.
And since we are splitting hairs, clinical trials are not "tests" and they are not conducted by the the FDA. They are statistical experiments conducted by the patent owner. They often fail to produce the expected results for a number of reasons. If you have taken a statistics survey course in your life, or at least read a book on the subject, you understand that a statistical experiment can only show statistical significance that indicate and effect is real. It cannot disprove an effect, and therefore cannot prove that the product does NOT work, as you suggest. I am splitting hairs because IMO you are either ignorant of what you speak, or you are intentionally using kurt, negative language to misguide others who are equally ignorant to the topic. I am trying to educate other stock holders and potential stock holders on how the FDA works, since I have been in the pharmaceutical and biotech industries (yes, they are two different things) for many years and have helped several companies acquire FDA approval. I have also helped them maintain GMP compliance per FDA CFR 21 Parts 210 and 211 for their manufacturing facilities.
I didn't mean to say or indicate that the ONLY problem is the accounting and trading. However, I do believe strongly, that if this stock we in full trading mode, even on the pinks, the price would have gone up significantly once the first box hit a real shelf at CVS and shorters (such as yourself?) would be hurting really badly. And "significantly" does not mean dollars or anything crazy. I simply mean statistically significant amount exceeding its own and market trends over a short to medium time period.
Finally, I do appreciate you best wishes, but I do not need a miracle nor do I need luck. I am in this stock for fun, quite frankly. My real money comes from other pharma stocks that I understand much better, such as WPI that I bought for around $21 in late 2008 that is now trading at around $63.Sure I'll take a miracle and would like to see CLSC at either of those two prices. But I'm one of the few who really doesn't care, I just don't like to see people get so spun up over what is essentially the lowest probability gamble they could have made other than playing Vegas slots - buying penny stocks.