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I just noticed_it says payment was_due Friday. I guess this is what started this whole thread... I don't read this every week.
So it should show up on the DTS report to be posted later today at https://www.fms.treas.gov/dts/index.html
From https://www.fhfa.gov/DataTools/Downloads/documents/Market-data/table_2.pdf:
TBD = to be determined but not later than 12/28/2018
Usually evidence of NWS payment shows up here the next day:
https://www.fms.treas.gov/dts/index.html
Look for a deposit credited to "GSE's"
The other place you will see the NWS posted is here:
https://www.fhfa.gov/DataTools/Downloads/documents/Market-data/table_2.pdf
Right now the due date still shows as TBD, but it should show as paid in the next few days.
Don't expect an end to the NWS with this year's update to the SPSA. I think instead they will merely raise the amount they are allowed to retain from the current $3B to $150B to help calm worries about future bailouts.
Key is_it indicates Mnuchin has_not_changed his mind. If he's at the same place he was 2 years ago, can the stock go to where it was 2 years ago too?
2 years ago fannie was above $4.
No posts for months, now you are tempting me to run out of posts...
Look at the latest balance sheet. They have the money to pay senior preferred, junior preferred and everyone else.
Yes, I realize some on here don't know how to read a balance sheet, but just remember that the $3B is NET worth.
NET!!!
I won't rehash the definition of items on the balance sheet once again. My point is - receivership NOW is much better than letting fannie and freddie die on the vine.
Of course any other plan is even better yet, I'm just pointing out that the current stock and junior preferred price reflects an increased expectation of liquidation with the new leadership...
This is why I hope receivership comes before they sell off all the assets.
They have $3B in NET worth. NET, meaning after all due mortgages, senior preferred liquidation preference, junior preferred face value, and any other outstanding debts. Assuming you believe the books are accurate everyone is fully paid out of currently held net worth with that $3B left over to distribute to commons.
Yeah, there is no guarantee even junior preferred will get full face value if they sell assets fast at fire sale prices, but I am pretty sure they will and commons will get some cash.
But - many disagree with me. I just say - look at the numbers. The market says juniors are not worth zero and commons are not quite zero yet.
Ahh_the good_old_days when_we thought Trump would do_the_right_thing with fannie and freddie.
Fannie net profit after dividends ZERO.
With a net profit of zero, why would you expect this stock to go up?
Well I am just a little guy and before the escrows were issued I only had 30,000. I assume the ones so excited about the escrow payments must have a LOT more than I do.
Unfortunately I sold 20,000 of those before they got cancelled so only got 10,000 escrows. However as it turned out the 20 or so cents I got from those I sold was more than the escrows turned out to be worth, so I can't complain.
Depends on how many escrows you have. For the common escrows, this comes to almost a penny per share!!!! If you had say 10 million escrows, it would mean you get over $80,000 which is Large Green to many people I know.
The P's get even more per escrow.
Draw usually refers to treasury GIVING money to Fannie and Freddie to cover problems with negative net worth.
Draws are recorded in THIS document:
https://www.fhfa.gov/DataTools/Downloads/Documents/Market-Data/Table_1.pdf
The document you refer to is talking about DIVIDENDS - where Fannie and Freddie PAY Treasury "interest" on previous draws.
Quite the opposite.
You mis-read that post. WMI-LT has $44 million available to pay divided among all the escrows.
That comes from the $60 million they still have minus the $16 million they hope to burn off paying the management of the LT as they delay payment.
I think they would prefer to burn off all the money and pay the escrows nothing, but that might attract too much attention to what they have been doing.
I’m just trying to keep it real. Not trying too hard to burst anyone’s bubble.
Personally I think my escrows are worth a bit under a penny each so I’d sell them for a buck.
No not really. It would be unethical to actually sell them for that much but it would be amazing!!!!
Sorry - I just have common WAMUQ escrows. Yeah I realize they are not worth ten cents, but the way some talk on here I hoped someone would jump at $1 per escrow. And I only have 10,000 of them.
As I’ve said before -I’d sell the rights to my escrows for $1 per share.
I'm still trying to figure out why some think that the escrows are entitled to more than the documented $44 Million.
Best as I can see - the former assets went in three directions:
Some were retained by WMIH
Some were sold to JPM
Some were held by WMI-LT to be distributed to creditors and if any is left to escrow holders.
These billions that are discussed seem to mostly have been sold to JPM, but some may have been retained by WMIH. I see no evidence that any of these "Safe Harbor" assets did or will go to WMI-LT. Just by their name - "Safe Harbor" - they are EXCLUDED from the bankruptcy and thus not something available to WMI-LT.
Any corrections are appreciated.
You are finally figuring this out?
JPM bought something like $80B in assets plus the liabilities of WAMU for $1.9 Billion.
At the time the courts said it was a fair price given the mark-to-market belief that home mortgages were worth just a few pennies on the dollar.
That's why I initially bought WAMU - I knew those assets would come back to their original value once the housing market stabilized. I didn't expect them to be sold for pennies on the dollar. After that there wasn't much use in owning WAMU or WMIH - but I'm already here so here I remain.
I do believe those who think there were tens of billions owed WAMU shareholders. Unfortunately JPM has those billions now.
However I'm still holding out for my $.008 per WAMUQ share that should be coming in the next few months. Ka-CHING! TENS of DOLLARS for me!!!
Would a more active experiment accelerate results?
Maybe instead of passively refraining from posting a positive price prediction, you could take the current price and subtract it from your predicted price. Then take that difference and subtract it from the current price. Then post a positively negative prediction based on your negative positive algorithm.
This would enable a negative feedback mechanism to accelerate the potential negative effect of your positive predictions, but in a double negative and thus positive direction. The double negative feedback should not only give the same positive results as abstention, but accelerate those positive results if the premise is true.
If the premise is false, the stock price will likely plummet, creating a buying opportunity.
I see it as a win-win situation.
Markers will not be removed until WMIH-LT itself is liquidated. When will that happen? Probably not until mid-late 2019.
After they ("they" are WMI-LT administrators) distribute that $44 million next month, they are retaining $15 million to burn off as administrative expenses. I'm not sure exactly how long it will take to spend all of that, but I'm assuming a year or so. Once they pay themselves all of that $15M, and there is no money left to pay themselves any more - they will shut things down and declare our escrow markers worthless, and instruct that they be removed from accounts.
Then we can finally move on and only talk about WMIH / MrCooper.
Is this new information from the documents released earlier this year where the judge quotes from some documents things like:
FHFA and the GSE's knew:
the GSE's would be generating large revenues over the coming years, thereby enabling them to pay the 10% annual dividend well into the future.
2012 through 2020 would be the "golden years of GSE earnings"
by 2020, cumulative dividends paid by the GSE's to Treasury would exceed Treasury's total investment.
I especially don't remember that statement about 2020 and the "golden years".
My reading is - this will go to trial to see if the NWS was legal or not. A ruling that the NWS was illegal would probably revert to the payments being considered 10% interest plus paydown of liquidation preference... which means they are paid off and the NWS is over.
This just my opinion, but IS a recommendation to buy.
Crud. I thought confirming the sweep would bring the price down. I had a buy in for $1.40.
Grrrr....
I've heard this said a few times before. When is this happening?
I say the sooner that my juniors get redeemed at face and cancelled, the better!!!! I would love the cash.
Third way for a stock to make money is to pay dividends.
Just saying.
The conspiracy theories about MM's manipulating the price only work if the stock is thinly traded enough that the MM's can have any influence.
If this is happening it's not the fault of the MM's - it's the market showing little interest in the stock.
In the case of WMIH the former shareholders of COOP lost interest in this company after the merger was complete. Partly due to the fact that WMIH went through bankruptcy and thus has only a bad reputation, and partly because due to the current price it's a penny stock and not to be owned by serious investors.
Finally! Someone who understands it.
Watt's job is secure. The FHFA director's job is to steal, lie, commit unethical acts and harm others.
The accusations directed towards Watt seem to just prove he's the right man for the job. I don't see him being fired or resigning. He may get another term.
This is bad news for fannie stockholders - when this finally gets recapped and released the top 10,000 earners in the country will mostly be fannie and freddie stock holders.
We agree on this.
I said:
Any assets that were allowed to be retained by WMIH - they still have. Any assets not retained... somebody else got.
Isn't that the same thing you said:
NO ALL WAS NOT GIVEN TO everyone else
As I said - any assets retained by WMIH they still have.
I think there might be disagreement on exactly which assets were retained and which were not - but that is a different argument that I would not attempt to provide input to.
Back in 2013 there seemed to be a bunch of people claiming many billions were due to the escrows, and others saying just a few dozen million were due. It seems to me that nothing has changed over the last 5 years...
Ahh but time will tell, and until those escrows disappear from my brokerage account I'll be watching for those checks!
Thank you for explaining S4V. Makes sense now.
Wouldn't it be nice if life was fair!?
However - in a bankruptcy it's not. Any assets that were allowed to be retained by WMIH - they still have. Any assets not retained... somebody else got. In this case creditors and investors.
Yeah - it seems kind of unfair that the company is still around, but had some assets stripped to give to former investors... I've owned a lot of bankrupt companies and this is unusual... but for whatever reason that's what the courts did. The time to complain was back in 2012.
Now - one question - did WMIH have any treasury shares, that they got swapped for newco shares and escrows?
That was my question. What was the S4V thing supposed to mean? I can't find the original posting and have not been able to determine the intent from all of the follow-up messages.
Can someone tell me what shares for what value?
A google search seems to show the S4V term was coined just a month or two ago on this board. So I'm assuming the person who made it up is on here. What was the intent of suggesting that some shares somewhere get traded for some value somewhere?
Why trade value (cash?) for shares (risk?)
Still trying to come up to speed since I quit watching this board back in 2013...
Thanks!!!!!
This is two boards. WMI/Escrow discussions and discussions about the merged WMIH/MrCooper.
If you believe some of the estimates - the value of the escrows is many times the value of the current WMIH/MrCooper company, so those discussions tend to be more passionate and drown out the current shareholders.
Hopefully at some point there will be a name change and stock symbol change - and they will create a NEW board for the active company, and the legacy escrow holders can remain here for the rest of eternity awaiting our big payoff and talking about when it will happen.
Until then - WMIH shareholders will have to try to get a word in edgewise here and there if possible.
This reply brings up a lot more questions than answers. I'm going to have to do a bit of investigating to see if any of these assets are in line to flow to escrow holders. And if so - where has all that cash gone in the meantime since the majority of these mortgages have been liquidated.