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I for one am excited about what potential company or division of said company we might end up buying. It will be nice to expand our base of employees and with that gains....profits....etc.... to start offsetting those NOLS.
speaking of which as I have been out of town recently. I did get the last check regarding the H's, but I recall that I am still owed i think another check around the same as the last if not a little more to totally pay off my piers claims.
Do you have any idea when they intend of disbursing those checks or does it rely on the court hearing/dismissing/settling the Employee claimants? I recall the reserve funds that were set aside are substantial.
Also I would like to say congrats to everyone who stuck it out together over these past 7 years. It has been a long road and it sometimes only feels like yesterday when we were all calling in to hear the court proceedings hearing the crazy verbal boxing the lawyers from all sides would do. If anything listening to that case opened all of our eyes to the corrupt nature of corporate law in Delaware, but yet by standing together and fighting them at every turn we somehow survived as equity. Maybe not what we envisioned true justice would be, but all things considered it could have gone the opposite way to the extreme with us ending up with nothing and that is a risk we were all willing to take.
So congrats to us all. Uplisting to a major exchange is big news. Now I am just waiting for the bigger material event of some sort of M&A in order for us to deploy the raised capital to start generating revenue for NOL utilization which in turn will lift all of our boats financially.
So to keep us focused. Good news about the uplisting, but lets also stay focused on the material even we have all been waiting for and when that happens we can really start crunching the numbers to figure out book value of our companies stock. forward earnings... Nol utilization... etc to determine what we should be trading at because on major exchanges remember most stocks never trade at book value its always a multiple that investors are willing to pay for projected future earnings and growth to the bottom line in value.
I personally am gonna wait until the dust settles after we do the M&A to see what kind of growth we could see 2...5....10 years down the road
I did not wait this long to make a quick buck and let the hedge funds make all the profits down the road. I am excited to see what deal we make and the numbers that result from this possible first deal of many.........
This is all just my own opinion of course.
Again congrats everyone. Now we wait for the next milestone to happen..
lol is this guy serious. He sees a stock trading at this pps and says to himself it must be a stinky pinky like every other one that gets pumped and dumped. Little does he know the spamming of messages that would normally move a pink stock on sentiment does not hold water on WMIH. lol so sad to see. I think he would be better off going elsewhere because it really looks foolish to be posting such bs against the vast majority of us who have been here for 5+ years lol.
I bet he doesnt even know what the company used to be called or what a NOL is ha ha ha ha ha
Thank you and it was a nice surprise in the mailbox today. I did in fact invest in the piers at a very nice price point which has thus far paid off well. Yes the vast majority though was in in the Common and both pref classes. It is nice though to get a good return on those piers and to actually realize those gains even if its been a long time coming.
As for the P's, K's and common holdings. I guess we will see how the whole tax returns, cash reserves and claims reserves situation pans out in terms of further waterfall movement. I hope the employee claims are settled for a pittance or a small payoff, but who knows. They did set aside a large chunck of money in reserve so I hope they can end up keeping as much of it as possible flowing to equity in the end.
Yup I agree and I will keep pounding the drums of until we see a material event with WMIH everything else is just static noise. The board of directors have a responsibility to do whats best for WMIH going forward and if they need to be silent until such time as to finalize a deal then that is ok with me. It is not the job of the BOD to hold the hand of any nervous person. Again until material events regarding M&A activity everything else is just noise on here.
Thanks for your kind words. It has been a tough road, but I am feeling a bit better. Been in and out of the hospital 18 times this past year. Luckily i have been more mobile and feeling a lot better. I never thought at such a young age that I would befall such suffering post op from a surgery, but i guess thats life isnt it.
Ok back to lurking. All in my opinion of course.
I think regarding the amount of shares WMIH has authorized is nothing really to read into as many companies the world over have amounts of shares that are authorized for many different reasons as well as to maintain the ability to do different things. Let me be very clear it is quite another thing to see something as common as that and automatically jump to the conclusion that the company would even use them at all without any evidence whatsoever.
I would call this erroneous misdirection as well as leaving out key pieces of information or simply making vague statements and claiming them as facts is the modus operandi of some who wish to influence market sentiment or simply misinform people who are not up to speed on everything.
Its something we see on a daily basis. The key is for one to do his or her own DD as well as relying on those you know who maintain clear impartiality and have no ulterior motives.
All the best! and in my opinion of course.
do you have any word on when those tax refunds are coming back. Soon I think right? Also as far as the employee claims go I recall that a reserve chunk of cash was set aside as well.
I think after this distribution they should have close to enough to pay the piers off without the refunds and claims reserves with just cash on hand i think.
I wonder when the final distribution will be or will they trickle them as it comes.
Anyone have any thoughts. This distribution today is very encouraging to me. We are getting very close to the the piers units being paid in full. The cash on hand, tax refunds, and the money set aside in reserve for claims is more than enough to pay piers in full and start the trickle down the waterfall.
Seems to me a lot of the same people who dont have the patience are still posting on a daily basis as per usual.
Anyways back to lurking and to deposit my check :)
All in my own opinion of course.
Just got a nice sizable check in the mail from the Liquidating trust disbursements. A letter is attached to the check, but it just vaguely saying that because im a claim holder i am receiving this money.
In previous distributions related to Piers units for example it would clearly state so. Does anyone know if this current round is related to piers units? I am assuming so due to the fact that I am still owed a bunch more even after this check to be paid in full.
Sorry guys been dealing with sickness recently and I have been out of the loop.
I assume they are now trying to make Piers units whole if thats what this check i got is about. They still owe me a nice chunk of change, but after today I think they are something like 3/4ths of the way to clearing the Piers and making way down the waterfall.
Anyways I would really appreciate it if someone would let me know if they know for sure this check I got is related to piers units only. thanks.
I am not sure who you are referring to in terms of people being excited. A shareholders meeting is one thing, but people should not mistake it for a time in which material events play out. By law the company must disclose material events to the public in the form of official fillings and or press releases as to in theory keep the market a level playing field.
The daily pps grind up and down is not trading on any material event information. Just a waiting game until the board of directors act on a M&A target. Until that time its just a waiting game.
Hence most long term holders will continue to hold until that time. The daily flippers, grinders, and people in it for a minute will post what they think will effect market sentiment to their daily trading advantage.
everything else is just white noise clogging up peoples ears. back to lurking and watching.
thanks for your reply. I think I got the jist of that, but I was wondering timeline wise in regards to those said funds being held in reserve etc for claims.. among other items
now as the employee claims are dealt with do you think they will disperse those funds to make the piers holders finally whole... well whole at least in terms of what is still owed.
Can we speculate a jan-March ishhhhh... time frame that piers holders can expect to get checks in the mail and remaining SR1 lien and SR2 lien notes held in brokerage accounts to be exchanged for cash digitally? and I assume any remaining amount left over to start trickling finally down the waterfall to former pref's and common's holders escrows... or is there something bogus still being held in front of them from getting something to trickle down.
Now as I recall ... please excuse me for not being up to date in this area that the LT does not have many suits going forward at the moment and it is a wait and see game for future funds to flow and that they will just be shifting funds that have remained in "reserve" for claims to move on down small though they may be.
Heck I know it wont be much, but I think mostly everyone would love to see something start to flow to those escrows even if it is just something to show that they have some lifeblood in them yet. lol.
Anyways. time for bed. strange after basically not catching much sleep for 5 days in a hospital bed I am finding it hard to fall asleep being in the comfort of ones own bed.
Now for WMIH going forward I hear a lot of the few remaining naysayers after the most recent news event as of late trying to hinge some negativity on the "dilution"... Well in my mind that could hold water if it had nothing in return for it or not rhyme or reason behind it.
The company is clearly showing its purpose to make use of the free market to quickly raise capital to deploy and to me it seems in a very careful and calculated way as apposed to just doing it for the sole purpose to appear making moves on the investors behalf.
I will get excited once the larger picture/ deal comes into focus and our number crunchers can start calculating future earnings + NOL tax shelter usage and always remember once we move up to a better exchange and these things are calculated along with assets on hand/ book value etc... always always always remember most if not all companies have values assigned to them that can be 5x,10x,etc... and so forth represented in the pps to future earnings grown over time assigned to the present day value per share...
Now that to me really gets me excited. Dont get me wrong our Massive NOL (baiscally a large tax break against earnings) is a thing of beauty... it is not the only thing we must focus on. It is just one part of the larger picture. The capital that we deploy is not only to utilize the NOL but I would assume also organically grow over time as well in terms of profits.
So some may say I have rose colored glasses on, but I like what I am seeing thus far although I am sure we all agree it has not been to the speed at which we all would have liked. It really has been a game of dedication, patience, and informing one's self and others through careful DD. It got hard at times to filter through a lot of the white noise from the BK trial days until now, but In my mind things will only get more interesting from here on out.
I am not going to be one of those people who sell early only to miss out on the large gains that the big boys are most likely planning on a little longer down the road. Thats the jist of it really they have the deep pockets and those with the deepest pockets can afford to have a longer time horizon than the small fry investor like myself.
I can tell you one thing I did not waste years upon years of my life going through what we all did during the BK case and everything in between only to make a few buckaroo's at the end of the day. I plan on sitting tight and watching the company do its thing.
Wont it be fun to see our company on a respected exchange (filled with more prudent investors which always helps) who see the bigger picture like we have from the start looking and calculating and re-evaluating etc... No company has an easy road the whole way through its history, but then again most companies do not start out with a huge NOL and some industry heavy weights involved behind the scenes.
So i guess in the end I kind of understand why some of the board old timers like myself have kind of faded into more of a lurking mentality. The daily debates on pps upticks and downticks due to manipulation or not have no baring on the eventual impact of material events only the BOD and the company can provide and as these things happen the vague theories on why one should not be steadfast fade away with every concrete block of truth (a.k.a. material events) make those comments fall on more and more deaf ears over time. they will be once again be replaced with in depth DD and logical conversation about the company moving forward I think the board in which we all used to love with spring back to life with the kind of debate and discussion that used to be so exciting amongst us all those years ago.
In short these are exciting times I tell ya!
All in my personal opinion only of course. I could be wrong of course. Either way the last chapter in the wamu saga has far yet from being written.
I hope everyone had a safe and happy new years and lets hope for a happy and most importantly healthy new year to everyone here!
now back to lurking
-YANIK...
Feel free to chime in.
hey guys. for those of you who know me from the early BK days I just wanted to stop by and post something as I have taken a back seat due to health issues after the court case finished. I did post from time to time, but not to the degree I was when all those fun documents and hearings we all eagerly dialed into.
I just got home from a 5 day hospital stay and I felt like I should post something as another year comes to a close.
I am glad that recent development finally show material events moving forward. I am a little behind on my reading so if someone with more knowledge could chime in I would appreciate that very much.
Does anyone know when the rest of the Piers units held on trading accounts and also on record are expected to be exchanged for cash. I still think I am owed a bunch. I did get a nice check this past year and some exchanged in my trading account, but I recall after all that it was still only about half.
Anyways I want to wish everyone a happy new year and I look forward to holding my WMIH holdings for many years down the road whatever they may look like. I expect to "milk" every bit of earnings power down the road with patience and NOL power. :) all the best YANIK
for those of you with SR lien notes 1 & 2... which you should have some left after the last exchange of them for cash in our accounts.
I just noticed according to etrade.
92936PAA8 - SR Lien 1 notes went up to 96.00 on the dollar a 28% change
92936PAB6 - SR Lien 2 notes went up to 93.00 on the dollar a 69.09% change
I know piers holders are still owed whats left in the notes as well as some that should be paid via a check in the mail like last time.
I wonder is the change in notes value have anything to do with maybe finishing paying off the Piers units class?
I do not have much left after the last exchange, but it would be nice to see that class in the waterfall paid off in full.
Thoughts? or could this change i see just some glitch on etrade alone.
I have a slightly different take on this.
Our pps going up or down has no baring on material events. So the manipulation can work both ways.
In fact to me the pps on any given day is just an illusion. Once material events occur then one can calculate the forward looking growth and/or current pps value based on facts regarding NOL usage, combined M&A assets etc......
I have been lurking for a long time due to some serious medical issues, but I never left the board. I was a fairly active poster during the BK and somewhat post after the plan/releases situation went down.
I still hold the same position on the current situation in that only material events will dictate the value of our shares going forward. It was nice to get some payments on my piers units,but as we all know it has been a long time coming.
I have resigned myself many years ago to see this thing through to whatever result we reach come what may. I think many others are in the same camp as me. Sure it stinks to see the pps swing wildly over time but in the scheme of things it matters not because the end result of BOD action at some point will put things on a more solid footing. at least that is the hope.
So until then I suggest those of you who cannot see this thing through to do what you have to do, but I will remind you that pps movement since post bk has mainly been going on no information other than the facts we do know regarding NOLs,credit facility, and cash on hand. Until a deal happens and the BOD makes a press release regarding the terms of that said deal/business plan we are left waiting. Only when that happens can the number crunchers project how the business can use NOL tax shelter and assets on hand to bring value and more importantly a base book value to WMIH stock.
I would like to hear other peoples thoughts. Ok now back to lurking............
you have to keep in mind though at the shareholders meeting they by law cannot discuss material event information as not to violate insider trading laws.
Lets say for example they wish to announce a merger deal then they would need to do a press release prior to the meeting or at the exact same time as it is being held so everyone in the public that owns and does not own shares can have the information at the same time.
With that said I expect the company to deploy its capital at some point be it before or anytime after said meeting be it days, weeks or months later.
We all wait either way. In the mean time on the other side of the spectrum I as a piers holder have already gotten a bunch of Run off notes which I will hold getting the 13% interest until they are paid off and the cash is in my hands. The remaining amount due to the piers is going to be less as the cash received from tax refunds etc are used to pay them down. Eventually I expect the piers to be made whole and we then can speculate/look forward to our pref/common escrow's to start to get something hopefully. Something is better than nothing am I right?
Anyways everything is all in my opinion. Everyone have a great weekend.
...Back to lurking.
you are not the only buyer. I got an order filled at 2.75 for a couple of thousand shares to add to my pile.
Seems like based on the fact no news has been happening the price movement is based off of nothing more than the direction of market makers and possibly those with deep pockets looking to bring it down to load up. If you looked some huge blocks went through at the lower price then it popped right back after. I could be wrong, but its nothing more than just my opinion.
Anyways Glad I was able to snag some at a decent price. Eventually the board of directors and KKR alongside blackstone as the partner who is actively locating potential M & A targets will act.
Until then cheers.
i do not understand everyone's obsession with the 19th/20th date. all is the restrictions on the NOL's get lifted somewhat. The BOD is not under any obligation to announce a deal on those dates. just saying.
The daily price movement should not matter at all unless you are trading this stock.
I would argue 95% of people here are waiting to see the capital deployed.
As far as March goes no one knows when exactly the company plans to do anything M & A related. March is just a data point in terms of some of the NOL restrictions being lifted.
Like it or not the BOD is in control of the timetable for material events.
I prefer to base my investment on facts not speculation.
KKR is on board and be it 1 day from now or months from now the company will execute its plan to grow the company. I am content with that.
if that were the case you would see a lot more posts on this board.
I would argue that the float is tight and if the volume is any indicator people are happy to just sit and wait until KKR/BOD/Blackstone make a move to deploy the capital and execute the series of material events which will propel the company forward.
Then there is the counter view which I do not think anyone can take seriously. That the KKR infusion of capital is an illusion. That the 125 million dollar credit facility wmih has had prior to kkr is an illusion and the 81million in cash on the books is an illusion as well. Furthermore all of these assets will not be deployed and the company will just do nothing.
I think the people posting on a daily basis regarding every little price movement up or down are mainly concerned with the short term trade/flip they are trying to do. A long term shareholder cares not about the perceived value of shares, but rather what a merger/earnings over time will bring to the table.
I guess to sum it all up is that a couple of months from now I would bet that the topics on this board might take on a different tone and scope in regards to projecting out how this company will continue to grow and bring value to the shareholders.
well its official we will be on more radars now. I am increasing my position even at this higher price.
It only a matter of time.
na just day traders who thought we would soar once the kkr deal went through.
that news was baked into the stock. thus they are moving on to pillage other stocks. I say good. glad to see them go.
more like i plan on snoozing for the next couple of years while I watch the powerful folks at KKR and blackstone steer this company towards the type of deals which will bring them and us money.
everything else.... bashers, pumpers, daily price watchers and everything in between is just static noise to me.
cheers.
I would also so say is that people need to be patient. If anyone thought we go to 20-30 a share overnight was dreaming.
M and A deals take time to complete and I am sure kkr ala blackstone and the BOD already have targets in mind or already lined up.
All will be shown in time.
Personally I am here for the long haul. The larger we get the more the shares will appreciate over time
The NOL tax shelter will provide years of safe earnings growth.
just my opinion.
why would that even matter at this point. the KKR deal is done. as of today our company has a lot more capital and a partner to help move forward with.
all we have to do is wait to see what the first deal will be and watch the company grow through multiple M&A deals over time.
where the stock price is today means nothing to me.
Just my opinion.
I am not sure. That is a question for someone more seasoned in corporate tax law. However I recall reading something about this in terms of the restriction, but also keep in mind regardless of the restriction or not. I thin WMIH needs to merge/buyout a like sized company.
So the 150 million kkr injected by buying the PIK notes and our credit line and cash combined together towards the purchase or merger could be the first of many other M&A deals to make a larger and larger company in order to offest gains by using the NOL's as a massive tax shelter.
If you read the press release willingham talks about their acquisition strategy. So i am thinking wmih and kkr already have the research done on who them plan on targeting for deals.
I plan on holding my position for the long term cause years down the road we could become a giant in the industry.
Just my humble opinion. good times are ahead for those patient enough to watch the growth over time :)
thoughts?
happy day guys. the news will be digested over the weekend.
Now we will see what the first Merger/acquisition will be.
its all good in my opinion only a matter of waiting and watching them put the capital to work to start utilizing that NOL>
speaking of H's I got something in the mail about the approval of the court to sell those note. I would assume that some form of payment will start to come to H holders soon.
We know the de minimus holders already got checks. I guess since that is out of the way the larger holders will start to get paid. I am not sure of the number 200 something million + interest will make the H holders whole. The 90+ million from the sale of notes will be close to half of what the H holders are owed.
I am looking forward to getting that check in the mail and the remaining amount owed if and when it comes.
Anyone have any idea on when the note sale will be completed and those funds will start going to holders? feb? march?
Anyways like yourself Donotunderstand. I bought H's as a hedge. I need to look it up but I think I had a cost average of 2 dollar and change per H. So the gain will actually make up for some of the losses in the P's K's and commons which I held a much much more substantial position in. We may eventually get some escrow money or never. No one really knows.
I hope we do.
this new interview came out today with professor william black.
About midway through the video he talks about WAMU and how JPM stole the assets.
I think the deal is already done. I have no to evidence make this claim. I just feel as though the terms of the KKR deal in terms of what options they could use down the road where very specific in regards to the amount of shares the company could get.
The board of directors most likely in conjunction with the contacts at blackstone were not only shopping us around, but also had in mind what the value would be with injections of capital in combination with our credit facility in terms of first year NOL utilization.
No one knows we could see a number of mergers down the road building a bigger and bigger company that would have a huge tax shelter.
All above is just my opinion.
I would like to hear other peoples thoughts?
No matter what happens with KKR the NOL's is the large asset that no one can take away from us and we know others want. I would also add that our existing credit line sweetens any potential deal.
tool if you are a member on the other board. some people noticed some big volume trades went through and then were removed.
the games continue :) glad I had some fresh powder at the ready for occasions like this day.
and on that note time to pick up another 5,000 share lot.
that statement alone shows you know nothing about the market.
do you think those in the know would rather pay a higher or lower price on an investment?
at 5.79% drop after a 160% move to the upside. ohh yea... lol
I feel bad for those people who had stop losses set. You just got taken to the cleaners.
I have no care for those flippers who go flipped out.
We will know in the next two weeks if the KKR deal went through. If not then what do you guys want me to believe the BOD is going to pack up shop and call it a day.
We must not forget those NOL's and Credit facility look mighty good to KKR and I am sure other businesses are chomping at the bit for the tax shelter.
Tic toc. around the wamu clock. All these new name posters are full of shlock. :)
got some more :) from the weak hands into stronger hands.
they filled me under the ask. :) i aint complainin.
and where are you coming to these conclusions from?
De Minimus PIERS holders (those with 500 dollars or less in piers units)
have already got checks in the mail.
Judge just signed off on the sale of the notes which should free up close to half of the funds of what the PIERS are owed. I think it was 90MIllion dollars +
So while you may be right in your assumption that the LT escrow units of the P,K, and common might never see a dime. (no one really knows)
The Piers are a different story. Correct my if I am wrong.
MM games or not. I would assume most people here want to see "material events" because those trump anything the MM's can get a handle on.
I recall during the run up in price prior and after the KKR announcement of very large share blocks being bought for days on end.
Whatever entity bought those shares has yet to release them into the market. (in anticipation of something upcoming perhaps?)
I actually see the price as very stable when you factor in where we were a couple of months ago.
Each investor must make his or her own decision when to buy/sell/hold etc.
I know many here who continue to talk about no news or deal falling through are just either scared or the more likely scenario just trying to effect the board sentiment in a vile attempt to get the share price lower for their own ends.
I used to be one of the posters who would confront these people in the past, but to me its just not worth the time and effort.
Anyways. Still Lurking and waiting for things to happen. All the best to everyone.
thats all well and good, but I would rather it rise on earnings, mergers, etc..
I am more interested to see things develop over the long term, but I get what you mean if you are just here for a quick trade and not the bounty down the road.
this dude is obviously trolling. no response needed to the posts
I might also add that using the NOL's will bring great value as a tax shelter, but the increase in the company size through M and A and projected earnings into the future will grow the share price.
remember and this is very important that most stocks on major exchanges (when we get there) trade and many multiples of value based on future earnings.
thus the valuation of the shares can far exceed the perceived asset value of the company.
here is an interesting question. not matter the amount you held. will the check in the mail for H's be considered a long term capital gain or just income?