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You've done the easy part. Little turds like you are best served concentrating slobbering on your momma's tit. When what or how i trade is none of your concern. I don't give advice, I give opinions. IMO, I think you ought to bet your full nut of probably...what.. couple grand, DUDE, on this sure fire deal.
There's a lot of difference between researching and watching. I've been watching. The data is slim for research....although the auction results were about 50% less than what EC counsel said it should be. Good luck with that.
As far as the 'hopelessly insolvent' argument, or lack thereof, when you are selling substantially all of your business, and the cash flow that comes with it, if the auction(s) don't put you in the black, then solvency is not even part of the equation. This is a liquidation, after all. Get it?
And by the way...a little FYI. One of the cases I was involved in, was a case that may end up being like this one, except there was a $40 million dollar distribution to equity.....and they had one of those precious EC's (that I was not on).... and they screwed up the distribution. Now, who was it that stepped up (out of his own pocket) and filed suit against the trustee to make him fix it????? The EC? Well guess what...that was post confirmation...which means no more EC at that time.
Figure it out yet? Who was right? Some dumbarse wannabe shareholder or the genius lawyers (debtors counsel)?
Well they didn't send subpoenas to FINRA and DTC for nothin. Something about having to redo the whole damn thing...............
But I digress. Carry on. It's all happy as pigs in slop up in here. I know nothing.
I've got your 'run along' hanging right here. FYI I've served on 2 of those precious committees, so I know just a weeeeeeeeeeee bit more than 99.9% of the investing population. I didn't want to be on another committee....especially this committee....that was formed...NOW YOU LISTEN GOOD...not based on valuations, but something personal out of the UST's office. It's either that or the lawyers absolutely made some stuff up out of thin air (which happens all too often) and hoodwinked someone at the UST's office.
All you fellas know what you can do with it and I'll come and go as I damn well please.
My advice to you all is not listen to anything I have to say, shut your pie holes, and BUY ALL YOU CAN. Put a second mortgage on the house while your at it.
I'm not even going to dignify that with a response. Forgive me if my hands don't meet the requisite fitment for pom poms.
Yep. Saw that. Seems Mr Buchbinder or somebody else at the UST's office is pissed at someone in debtor's counsel and just made it personal by appointing an equity committee WITHOUT any financials or schedules. The UST's office doesn't even know where the creditors stand. I have never seen the cart before the horse so blatantly in any case...
If our 3 new appointees don't have any experience.....at least I'll know what to expect.
Nope. It's just a questionare. If any of yall would have listened weeks ago, then you'd know the UST makes the decisions about who does what and if and when. There will be no decision before the sale is finalized in any event.
Yeah. The bid is 11 cents for a reason.
That wasn't the exact wording, but it is essentially what was said.
They are also wrong about the confirmation hearing.
But at least they said they weren't BK lawyers....meaning they don't know much about BK.
And they are laying on the LIP SERVICE to the detriment of all stakeholders.
better than 50% (more likely than not)
This is trading at a premium considering where it's headed.
The most intelligent post of the day, imo. I downloaded the complaint filed by the DOJ and it's just not the DOJ, they are joined by 6 states and the D of C.
Yeah, you keep waiting. Apparently you don't listen too good or you would have understand the part about 'filling up the buckets' on the CC. As it stands right now, the creditors are waiting to see what china holds for them, not you.
Hey, if you don't want to study those links that's fine with me. I like it when I trade alongside uninformed traders.
I can't help the fact that the cases I served on where large and convoluted, with a touch of criminality throw in for flavor.
What I can transpose is the cost and how seemingly simple things get turned upside down based on self serving agendas.
Lawyers don't give breaks based on the size of cases. They charge without batting an eye since they had the law written so that they get paid before anyone else.
Equity committee lawyers can still get paid in full even when equity winds up with zero.
This is not a big case where you can go wild with a committee. You have to pick and choose your fights and keep a tight leash on counsel and their fees.
I watched gbglf for a long time. I don't have to go do a refresher.
HA. A compelling case still take 5-6 weeks. Reality takes less time. 100 million isn't quite enough to justify a need. You have to be able to show that the debtor intends to re-organize around something, instead of the current liquidation path.
How on earth can you make a compelling enterprise value case when it is based on financials that in every aspect is known to be fraudulent? Hence the greys.
If if's and but's were candy and nuts....
Yeah, it will be good for the hedge fund bond holders who will get paid the points as a tip when they pull the rug out from under everyone else.
I have tons of time. A simple 'thank you' will do. The alternative is the 'I told you so' coming from me.
I've watched this pig for about 3 years or more waiting on a possible way to make a dime. My agenda is making money. I think it's a good agenda to have. If anybody has a problem with my agenda, speak up.
If you guys wants to wage war with attorneys, go ahead. They'll take the ball and run with it. They will forget who they work for in short order. They'll spend 500K to claw back 100K in a heartbeat. They'll forget about fee caps (if someone is smart enough to even put them in the engagement letter). They'll run wild if you let them. They absolutely love getting people on committees who don't know anything about the process.
Where you on the call? Did you ask all the important questions?
The sale will go forward and there's nothing that can be done about it. I'd just about bet my left one that the breakup fee will stay the same and the schedule won't get pushed back.
My suggestion is to go forward with the current 363 sale, then immediately sell the Oklahoma assets via 363, then file a Plan of Liquidation that appoints a Trustee to administer a trust. That way you get all the lawyers off the tit asap. The trustee can prosecute the causes of action, if any, and sell the chinese assets, if they are worth the hassle.
This thing is trading as if the sale is worth 110 million and the chinese assets are worth zilch. You'd be lucky if the Oklahoma assets' proceeds covered the legal fees up to implementation of a plan.
If this thing gets drug out over the course of a year and a half, don't be surprised when the legal fees pass 10 million. That's your 'out of pocket' expense.
Because they lack standing to file a damn thing without a shareholder claiming that they represent them. They can't file squat unless you say that they are filing on your behalf.
I don't give a rat's u know what if anyone knows everything about corporate structure, this, that, and yadda yadda; if you do not know the BK process, you know nothing, nor do you have any idea how to proceed.
Knock yourself out. Organize. Throw money at some attorneys for an Ad Hoc committee.
My motive is experience. Do you have any experience? Have you personally kicked a 'well respected' law firm to the curb because of false promises, incompetence and over billing? Do you have the balls to get on a committee and be willing to do that? Do you think you can convince a majority to follow your lead?
Strategy? Yeah, you better hope someone overbids the floor in the auction. If not, kiss it goodbye.
If I'm here to provide a public service, then you best listen up. The attorneys on the phone today failed to tell all you guys that if an official committee is appointed, it will be made up of the largest 7 equity holders who are willing to participate. That's the trustee's guideline, not what you want. On small cases like this it could and if appointed, will most likely be 5 or maybe 3 members.
So if you get the official committee the odds are that the people driving the boat will not be the current ones jumping up and down about organizing. One or two POS wannabe mini hedgefund guys on a committee can be a real problem. They usually do more harm than good.
I have never seen a shareholder's meeting conducted while a company is in bankruptcy.
As far as the VIE issue, which is purely the cross-border jurisdictional deal, the fact is that U.S. courts don't have jurisdiction over Chinese assets on the ground. The Debtors didn't include the Chinese entities in the BK filing because they couldn't, even if they wanted to.
It doesn't matter what the Chinese assets are worth if you have no vehicle or buyer for said assets. Somehow, and I don't know how, but somehow the debtor would have to peddle those equity interests in the Chinese assets to someone who could realize the value, i.e. someone in China.
You may could squeeze a little out of the D&O but you'd be lucky if the Class Action could be satisfied with that.
If you remember those buckets getting filled during the presentation today, you may recall that once the unsecured creditors get filled, then all that is left goes to equity. If the Class Action gets a claim as an unsecured creditor, don't bet on your bucket getting a drop. If the Class gets grouped and treated pari passu with equity, then expect your bucket to get filled as the same time as them....meaning you will share any recovery. Your piece of the pie may get exponentially smaller.
And someone needs to tell Mr. Regnante to quit filing worthless paper. The lawyers will read, email, re-read, email, re-read, circulate, comment, head scratch, and then forget about it, but only after they generate about $5K in billings. Do that 100 times and see how that may affect any payout.
Define VIE and I don't have a clue who Madaniels is or what he said.
There is a VERY real possibility that the now present insiders of the debtor will try to conduct just this one auction and reorganize around the Oklahoma assets and Chinese assets, or also sell the Oklahoma assets and keep the Chinese assets in more or less a shell company all-the-whilst paying themselves large salaries and burning up what little value may be left for shareholders.
Don't think for a minute that it can't happen and it very well may.
For those of you that may have taken away from the conference call that getting 'a seat at the table' means you will have real leverage ---- you are mistaken. It's more of an oversight position if anything.....which means you may get a first hand look at watching any value slip away and you can't do a damn thing about it when the debtors fall back on the 'business judgment rule'.
The best outcome when you sell the business that brings in the cash is to go into liquidation mode asap, which means conversion of the case into a liquidating trust with a trustee at the helm. Theoretically they have to answer directly to beneficiaries of the trust, and if there is equity, that means you. The main advantage is it limits the cash burn. Once that sale goes through, you are looking at a melting ice cube.
I wasn't, but I'm not impressed easily. The glaring admission that this is sitting negative 20 million right now is something that can't be overlooked.
They are looking for a job since work is slow. I have no problem with that. But they want someone to pony up significant funds (out of your own personal pockets) to file some trivial objections that will be addressed by the CC most likely.
Unless the auction results in over 100 million to the estate via the upcoming 363 sale, It's going to be a tough row to hoe trying to peddle the chinese assets' equity value as a basis for an official committee.
RIght now I don't see it happening.
It's a good primer but don't hire Neil Glassman....take it from someone who gave him his walking papers.
Glassman and Bayard tend to bill more than an out-of-town lead counsel, such as some of the others already mentioned, when they are just hired as local counsel. Local counsel's functions are minute, meaning they just file papers. The scenario that Bayard will provide is like the mail room delivery boy getting paid more than the CEO. If you hire Glassman/Bayard, that's what you'll get.
The trouble with EC's is that you always seem to get several folks to serve on it that don't have any experience and can be led off a cliff by incompetent counsel. Or the other all-to-often scenario when you have inexperienced folks coupled with one or two shady fund guys. There is some absolute scum that try to get on committees to use it as a tool to rob everyone else blind.
Be careful what you wish for.