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Helloooo McOhbull....
Filing against the DTCC? Gee, that sounds like a familiar suggestion from some poster who has written this explanation earlier.
~Senators are fine at putting verbal pressure.
~State Office of Securities are useless
~State AG's work better when your complaint is written to the State where your brokerage is headquartered. 40 complaints to the Nebraska AG's Office would place more pressure on TDAmeriturd.
Stephan Hall's briefs in the Whistler and Nanopierce cases are a mess. He wrongly accused the DTCC in his filings. 98% was correct, but the 2% of poorly worded accusations caused the judge in each case to toss the lawsuit.
It's that 2% you want to avoid....ie...accusing the DTCC of directly handling trades.
I'll post it one more time. The DTCC is a bank but the "deposits" are electronically controlled by the individual brokers. The only time the DTCC is supposed to handle the actual cert is when a broker's electronic ledger is a deficit.
Imagine bouncing a check....you have to deposit real funds with your bank to fix you imbalance.
A broker is short and the DTCC demands certed shares to fix the brokers imbalanced ledger.
Issac's behavior is so not normal that you file as lawsuit with Issac as the target..and you only add the DTCC since they are legally responsible for Issac's behavior while representing the DTCC.
clta,
Ironic how many stocks can show a proper trade based upon supply and demand.
Yet, all the scammy pinks e-cry about how the market is rigged.
Gladly.
PM me your address.
Just this guy. Maybe smarter than Kevin West too.
http://henryjenkins.org/obama%20spock%202.jpg
Or you could drive your Pinto over to Ed Thompson's apartment and give him a dirty sanchez.
You should aim for slightly smarter.
I what to be as smart as you when I grow up
You could always be like this guy in Maine named Greg Nadeau. I think he used to work in Augusta. Poor sap shorted tech stocks during one of the biggest runs ever in the stock market. Think he used to live in the Auburn area at one time.
There's a guy you would "what" to be as smart as.
Behold.
CMKX is revoked under federal mandate. Frizzle is about as smart as a retarded one-armed mexican midget.
How many shares of the new "CMKX" do you have in your hands right now Jimmy?
It has.
OMG...you're going to be uber-rich. LoCastro must be just squeezing his butt cheeks in glee!
Oh wait, Vince lied about his "buy-back", the number of shares he claimed to repurchase were actually ex-clearing sales also thru....surprise...Jeffries and Company.
Almost 2.5 Billion shares for over $200 Million total.
Whoops, Petit must be really hoping el shorty no muncho his bendejo.
Sorry Bubba, I'm not a cubicle crony, I'm Enrico Pilazo and the fat lady sang years ago.
jimmy...
I have some core samples from Acadia National Park. Wanna test them?
Koch says they are chock full of lobsterium with traces of uranus.
As did I.
Just print off some of Andy's more recent pump postings. Leslie has most of his old posts including some from his Yahoo days.
If four or five others do the same, Andy's days of pumping will be over.
Although, how the heck will he be able to afford new high-water pants?
How about a tribal name?
Baldaccishorsefacewife.
It's Passamaquoddy.
Who are you insinuating has a lack of class Kevin? Especially in light of your posting history and constant attacks towards "bashers". Sometimes Kevin, bashers are people who have seen the scammers in action before and are simply trying to warn others to stay away.
Attacking someone you don't know
LMAO
Kevin is such a fool. Yakers was told PCBM was a pump and dump job from the inside. The entire message board was told the OS was close to 2 billion in May of 2002. Paul Applebaum basically freaked when he was called on his cell phone. Paul's last comment was "for all I know, you are the FBI and I'm not falling for Ed's (Surfit's) scam."
Kevin owns shares in GlobeTel Communications. Kevin thought it was a shorty fest when in fact, Joe Monterosso was dumping huge blocks of shares. The same Joe who pumped and dumped TotalAxcess.com. The same TotalAxcess.com that Judy Cline has nearly 1000 posts on claiming it was the next WorldCom back in 1999-2000.
These shams are all inside pump and dump scams. No real operations, just massive inside dumping while claiming it is "shorty".
The sad part is the answers are literally right in front of their e-faces.
How about Ed on tape making threats? Copies of his old emails claiming people did not know who they were screwing with? How about Truffles calling making threats and then 3 minutes later Ed calling stating "you're lucky buddy"?
Ed's not going to make it thru the year. That's a fact.
Those two clowns have no idea that over 3000 of the message board postings were printed and sent to Leslie's office.
How do fake certs get removed?
The Transfer Agent indentifies the improperly issued cert and notifies the brokerage who has that cert in hand that it's counterfeit.
The corporation then begins a civil lawsuit against either the person or group who deposited that cert. If the brokerage refuses to identify the person or group, you sue the brokerage and let them worry about how they will recoup their losses.
Should the DTCC be doing something directly or advising the TA to do something?
The T/A should be advising the brokerages that their shares are bogus and will not be guaranteed by the company. The T/A is supposed to not deal with the D.T.C.C. other than if Cede and Company also claims to have more shares ledgered than they are supposed to have.
It is almost as if the DTCC want the fake certs to stay out there or something
No they don't. They want Tom to either handle it legally with each individual brokerage or they would demand Tom issue more certs to guarantee shares like he did with Capital Growth.
The SEC did take the step of identifying Mario Pino and Pammy as the source of the badly forged certs, which is as far as we know wqy more proactive then anything the DTCC has done
That's the S.E.C.'s job. To fine and suspend individuals who create securities fraud. S.E.C deals with people, NASD deals with the brokerages/MM's...DTCC is nothing more than a fruitcake ledger system.
As to your supposition that there are piles of certs at our brokers for Energy Source, formerly known as BCIT, how come no one has been able to pull a single cert
I've never posted that there are piles of certs of Energy Source. Where did that one come from? No one should have a certificate for Energy Source. In fact, was the conversion of the corporation even properly handled? I forgot to look for the NASD link showing the proper conversion date....
Every brokerage has an in-house compliance that specifically holds and verifies your certificates.
There isn't a brokerage out there today who...verifies a cert; they just call the DTCC and ask for shares
I own 100% of the outstanding shares of shell "ABCD". I open an account at BULL Securities. I sign the back of my certificate and deposit those shares so I can eventually try to sell my shares into the market. Before those shares clear for trading, compliance makes a quick call to the T/A to verify that cert #1017 is in fact issued to me..and for the amount the cert states.
I'm still trying to figure out how Capital Growth did not see the conflict between Pamela and Stock especially when Pam had no formal paperwork filed to make her the official "T/A".
Brokerages do not "call" the DTCC for shares of people trying to enter their certs into the market. You think Capital Growth just called shares?
That's one of most ludicrous statements I have seen concerning how certificates enter the market AND how those certed shares are cleared for trading.
Right..even though the DTCC never sees actual certs, they supposedly have some secret method of determining bogus certs in real time trading?
By the way, no one mentions why James Stock was unable to catch Mario's shares.
Fake certs? Clearly not Mario's "fake" certs. The ones that were later covered in an agreement with Capital Growth?
I'm not tongue tied, you constantly have zero ability to comprehend the post. Unfortunately OHBULL, I elaborated on some of these comments and you are unable to see some of those responses.
what if the brokers NEVER see a cert...
Then the Transfer Agent needs to report which brokerages have more shares in their accounts than certed shares to back up their client's positions.
On the otherhand, do you honestly think brokerages like Etrade are not going to follow the Customer Protection Rule? Do you think Eturd is going to get stuck with a short position caused by someone....just for example...dumping shares thru Ameritrade?
How many failures to deliver has the current Transfer Agent found?
explain please as to who verifies the stock certificates.
For the seventh time, the compliance officer at each brokerage...and verification is made with the transfer agent.
DTCC stock lending program...is done between brokerages based upon what they ledger as their positions at the DTCC.
OHBULL Securities could claim to have 103 Million BCIT shares on hand and report that position to the DTCC. DTCC just enters that number. It's always...and will always be..the brokerages who are either honest or fudging their account positions with the DTCC.
Don't like it? Demand a real time accounting system where the brokerages no longer can control or alter the ledger. The current system is set up like a crappy bank where I can go into my account and just add money
Which camper, if you paid attention to my post to Art describing why and how you sue the D.T.C.C., you would have read why it's important to legally go after the D.T.C.C. employee who made such an abnormal request.
You put that employee in a legal position where he either states for the record that it was his request.....or the request for more shares was on behalf of his employer.
why would the DTCC be completely concerned about the certs that are in the system? According to your messages, that concern is completely outside of their realm of responsibility
So, you didn't read my post to Art describing how to proceed?
Funny, Art understood my post.
Posted by: Art2Gecko Date: Sunday, June 28, 2009 9:22:40 PM
In reply to: A deleted message Post # of 118950
I have no problems with that, I'd love to see BCIT sue Montal for what he's demanded of BCIT, and I'd love to blast that all over the internet as well. I wonder just how much the DTCC would back up montal and his "demands" of BCIT, particularly with a grassroots PR effort, along with Grassley's office sniffing up his butt.
OMG...thanks for the lesson.
Cede & Co. is the nominee name for The Depository Trust Company, a large clearing house that holds shares in its name for banks, brokers and institutions in order to expedite the sale and transfer of stock.
I've never traded stocks before. Ever. Oh wait, I work with Medium Term Note contracts and sometimes send our Bank Guarantees to others via DTC procedures. But hey, thanks for the lesson.
By the way, Cede and Company ledger their "holdings" just like TDAmeritrade, Eturd, or others do.
Not quite.
you hold the viewpoint that the DTCC has nothing to do with the actual certificates
Brokerages are responsible for the actual certificates. DTCC only knows what is supposedly available based upon what the brokerages claim to have.
and that the DTCC is not concerned about the certs that are in the system.
Completely concerned, especially when a situation arises where real certs are mixed with bogus certs.
That's funny:
mretgnol: Ok, stop telling us what to do and go take action according to your own advice.
You want me to sue a DTCC employee based upon Megas' heresay? Is the D.T.C.C. forcing me to issue shares? Is the D.T.C.C. screwing my shell corporation?
Just how exactly am *I* supposed to sue a DTCC employee? I cannot wait to see your explanation.
How about you pay attention to my previous post to Art.
For the third time:
Anyhow, to counterpoint Nancy's claim of: The SEC does not have control over the Deposit Trust Corp and why it is not letting the shares trade.
Here's Larry Thompson's exact quote taken from the DTCC web site:
We also have no power to force member firms to close out or resolve fails to deliver. That power is reserved for the SEC and the markets, be it the NYSE, Nasdaq, Amex, or any of the other markets.
Followed by: It is our broker and bank members who control their DTC accounts. They can and do segregate shares that they are not permitted to lend out. Neither NSCC nor DTC monitor or regulate that activity. It is done by the SROs and the SEC.
Or, from the legal opinion following the case of Whistler Investments versus DTCC and subsidiaries. The judge tossing the case stated; clearing and settlement rules promulgated by DTCC's subsidiaries and approved by the U.S. Securities and Exchange Commission (SEC) cannot be challenged under state law. Because DTCC's Stock Borrow Program (SBP), the target of the lawsuit, is explicitly approved by and subject to the ongoing oversight of the SEC
I knew you would semi understand.
Because...either Montal was acting on his own and the D.T.C.C. will not support his behavior.
Or, Montal's actions were controlled and directed by his compliance director.
Either way, someone at that office is going to have to state for the record why they made such a request.
nw,
the state division of finance and securities, where i filed my complaint
Sadly, here's the problem with each individual state securities office: they only have jurisdiction over the actions that happen within the state.
Meaning, TDAmeritade (in Nebraska) does not fall within State Securities jurisdiction unless you just happen to be a resident of Nebraska.
Here in Massachusetts, my State Office of Securities branch has no jurisdiction over my online broker. Now, if I had walked into an actual local broker and bought, that's another story.
Grassley's office has the ability to ask some tough questions and demand direct answers. However, in the end, he actually does not have jurisdiction to launch a legal investigation.
Been there, done that with my Congressman's office on another stock 7 years ago.
the fact that the sale of naked shares by brokerages happened, doesnt matter to them
Correct, because it's a civil legal issue between the company defrauded and the person or people who committed the fraud. Your State Securities Office cannot step into a personal civil issue between an out-of-state corporation and out-of-state thieves like Pino (Arizona).
do you think any of them might want a job in the securities industry so they might not want to step on any potential career opportunities...
Or..the state statutes where you reside renders your state office powerless to proceed with an out-of-state issue.
Again, been there before. Busted a scam in Pennsylvania and my State of Mass office was powerless to prosecute or help me obtain restitution.
No. Just zero percent for the previous stinky pinkies who tried.
That's a good question actually. Since a few companies who actually sued the DTCC turned out to be insider scammy companies.
Jag Media sued the DTCC while Gary Valinoti was dumping shares and using pumpfools on the RagingBull to hype a supposed short of 10 times the registered O/S. Jag was a Mark Faulk/David Patch/Judy Cline Festivus Miracle.
Nanopierce sued the DTCC while, whoops, lying about the scammy PIPE deals they entered.
So, maybe getting back to my suggestion. It's not about seeking a legal judgment, it's about entering a valid lawsuit into the legal system. Take that pleading and get people to have their own Senator's office to demand an explanation from the D.T.C.C.
Oh no, I'll still be around.
And I'll be around when Megas will be wondering what next.
Until then, what you are proposing are just extremely time delaying; did you know that?
Compared to the last 3 years?
And now this mysterious poster would have us believe that a tiny filing is going to make them go 'Oh, we are really sorry about the Global Lock thingy...we'll take it off right away'.
Did I say that? I'm saying that a legal pleading can be followed up by Grassley and maybe a dozen other Senators demanding an answer from the D.T.C.C.
Why not really put the pressure on. Better yet, before you serve the D.T.C.C., have an aid from Grassley's office aware of the pending service attempt. Give Grassley's office a first-hand attempt to see the DTCC's behavior in real-time.
You think that's a bad thing? I do not.
Maybe somebody should tell Byrne about that one lol!
You mean Patrick, who was caught lying about how huge his supposed short was and who has problems properly filing correct financials? Patrick does deserve an "A" for effort as he has the balls...er..ball..to take his fight public. Of course, if Saint Patty wanted to hammer some people, he'd just go sell a bond, use the cash to buy back some stock, and run the stock thru the roof.
Tell Patty that one while you are at it.
pressure against brokers might be a better idea from and individual perspective
The problem with pressure against the brokers is that we are all bound by some stupid arbitration clause. That shit-ass arbitration clause is something that needs to be exposed also. The clauses we agree to when we open our accounts have turned into a loophole to be screwed with little legal recourse.
Keep living in a world where anyone who points out you are wrong is somehow a basher...or trying to delay.
Expensive? It costs less than $1000 to file a lawsuit. Whether you actually proceed is a whole nother' story.
DTCC ignore it? If I walked into my Congressman's Office with a copy of a legal pleading claiming I was fugged by the D.T.C.C., my Congressman's office would be on the phone with the D.T.C.C. asking for an explanation.
we don't need the DTC to clear BCIT shares. Your smart. You'll figure it out
Actually, it is "You're" as in "You Are"
Right. Well, of course there is self-clearing which is what the D.T.C.C. was hoping Tom would do. Completely removes the D.T.C.C. from the mess while sticking Tom with the clearing bill.
Hey, can we please have 3 more years of your pie-in-the-sky theories and delusions of how the stock will mysteriously cover because the big bad market will be begging to make amends?
LMAO.
Really?
but most of that has already been tried
Which part has been tried? Can you show me where Tom has filed against TDAmeritrade (the obvious choice since most here have a TDA account), filed against the DTCC?, or even publicly started to post documentation to exert a little pressure?
Which part of my suggestions do you claim to have already been tried?
The DTCC being flexible and reasonable? Here's a little hint....that's why you file a lawsuit. You give the DTCC no ability to fart around anymore. Now whether you actually proceed with that legal effort...or if you simply file and drop it 45 days later is another story.
The rest of it is now being addressed by a group of shareholders
Yay..another super group with a web site full of heresay and Grassley's office promising to ask the S.E.C. some tough questions.
Did you know, that if Megas filed a lawsuit against the DTCC, every person on this message board could take a copy of that pleading to their respective Senators office and demand help. 20 or 25 Senators asking the S.E.C. and D.T.C.C. for their explanation.
Actual legal documentation versus heresay is what moves mountains.
...well...smarter than them
Sorry, I have to debate that one.
So, in a perfect world/market, that your post seems to have been conceived in
Actually, try the world where you have certain legal rights as provided by Federal Securities law. Something that some of you continue to ignore. But hey..why file an real legal motion when you can send some emails.
Just my opinion,
But I think part of Tom's problems lie with Stewart Sytner.
Who the hell runs a bogus off-shore bank, mysteriously hooks up with known con-artists like Mario Pino, Louie Lessor (which more and more appears to be another alias for Mark Pedley), actually has the balls to misrepresent his "bank" to help swindle $20 Million from a U.S. based fund, and at one point claims to be the Consul General to Papua New Guinea?
Stew's buddy Lidio Rancharan was caught also pretending to be a General Counsel (to Cuba) and was tagged and bagged for selling bogus life insurance policies via Panama.
Stew quits IBIE around the time the FBI started working with the group suing for recovery of the Sentinel Funds. What has IBIE turned out to be?
That being said, I honestly think Tom was hosed and misled by Stewart, who ironically, has been kind of quiet lately.
ditch..
A formal successful outcome can be relative.
Just the actual filing against the DTCC brings some pressure. It also shows that Megas is for real. As of right now, it's been a series of bumbling efforts.
What do you consider successful? An actual judgment would be cool.
However, how about some public pressure and a little public humble pie? To me, that's just as successful.
Calling the DTCC out in public with an honest legal filing can have a great effect.
ohbull..
but what you have so far laid out is that...nobody...has any responsibility for verifying anything but the T/A. That unfortunately for your arguement is just not the case I'm afraid.
Only (1)The Transfer Agent or (2) The Company (if self-clearing) know if a certificate is real or not. Who else do you think has the ability to verify anything in real time?
Brokerages and broker-dealers....and shareholders rely on the Transfer Agent to police the market. Your fantasy of the DTCC supposedly having some compliance officer to watch for bogus shares does not happen.
The elctronic transfer from the T/A to the DTC is, as you point out
I didn't point out an electronic transfer between the T/A and DTCC. Brokerages electronically ledger their holdings with the DTCC.
The brokerages deal with the T/A.
The T/A deals with brokerages and shareholders.
If the DTC were to find themselves in need of the actual certs they had previously accepted; what/how would they do?
The DTCC does not physically need certs for themselves. They would only request Cede to request shares from the T/A. Or...they issue a blue sheet to all brokers notifying them there are not enough certed shares to back all shares in the market.
Art.
You do not sue the shareholders, you sue the brokerages. You force the brokers to cough up the number of shares they are claiming to have in possession.
Tom knew...or should have known TD Ameritrade sold more shares that what was legally available. That's a start.
Capital Growth hands you the Willy Wonka golden ticket and even admits in writing they need shares. The last thing you do is cut them new certs in exchange for some pocket money.
Camper..
Seriously, no one gives certificates to the DTCC. No one.
The DTCC is an electronic ledger controlled by the brokerages grubby little fingers. The DTCC only sees what the brokerages ledge or report to the DTCC.
means anyone can give certs to the DTCC, and the DTCC will subsequently put those certs into the system.
Brokerages are who enter shares into the system once the T/A validates the shares.
The DTCC has to do the diligence to assure the certs it accepts are valid
No, the compliance officers at each brokerage handle the due diligence.
---why did the DTCC allow bad certs into the system----
Because, the brokerages reported those shares are cleared. So, Tom has to go back and legally prove the shares to be fraudulently issued.
The same reason Marco Glisson was dumping unregistered shares of CMKX long after CMKX was revoked. He had a scammy T/A authenticate the shares he was passing around.
Megas has already proven Mario and Pam were fraudulently dealing with improperly obtained shares. Now, Tom needs a court order...or court judgment showing the rest of the shares in the market were not properly issued. The judgment or order is what the DTCC takes as proof to show the rest of the shares are "bad" as you label them.
camper..
And who is responsible for authenticating the transfer agent?
Usually these situations do not occur because an active Transfer Agent will receive the bogus shares. The answer as to who was supposed to recognize Pam's fraud was....the active Transfer Agent at the time Pam tried to take over.
Who was that? I'd like to know the answer.
As for how Pam and Mario were able to hyjack the shell, that responsibility falls upon either Megas (who was clearly not paying attention) or his buddy Stewart Sytner (who is now in deep crap for his role in the scamming of nearly $20 Million from Sentinel and has a history of hanging with scammy people).
Or can the DTCC just accept certs from anyone who says they are the Transfer Agent for a company?
The DTCC does not "accept" certificates to begin with. The DTCC is a book ledger system. People deposit shares with their broker. Broker compliance verifies with the T/A if the shares are real or not. Your brokerage account posts the shares. The DTCC only knows which brokerages have which share amounts when the brokers posts their positions to the DTCC.
See...that's where I get pissed. Certain people on this board keep acting like the DTCC is some sort of cert holding center when in fact, the pool of shares are actually held by Cede.
Sadly, those "booked ledgers" at the DTCC are 100% controlled by the brokers.