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think is dead area for investing. OriginOil still puts out glowing press reports but they are all crap.
colleague of mine just visited Raptor and then went by EVGI, yep, place is dark and for rent sign. He heard from one of the former EVGI workers that Richard and maybe Rick had spun another venture (scam) up - I will try and get the name - curiously appears there was a trade on the stock today.
I have drawn blanks on getting Washoe data early last year. In chats with EVGI, sounds like they have assumed whatever existed of the original Washoe deal. They own and control (but may not have paid all the RAPT billings) the 5000 ton/yr phase 1 facility, and continue to chat about the expansion. They are runni9ng a material that is called the "Canadian Ore" (may actually not be owned by them). There is about 80 ton of the washoe still around RAPT (bit hard to tell by sight) but none being run through the original 2000 ton/yr facility.
So your trading strategy is to sell on the way down and buy on the way up???
Had another chat with informant within EVGI circle and yet another lead operator has been furloughed. No update on the rumored investment following the Investor Week in Groveland.
Dr Dundore indicates actually two paths from Algea to fuel. One is based on algeas that store energy as sugars - those can be fermented into alcohols. The second path is for algaes that store energy as lipids - those are squeezed to release the bio-oil, the oil transesterfied and then mixed with diesel.
And yes, the sugar route typically yields mostly ethanol (also some methanol) so with differential distillation and processing one could get to several high-valued liquids.
Dr Dundore is a nice guy but obviously stressed. and I agree unlikely that a telephone call will result in any news. While I am convinced RAPT is not a scam, I am unconvinced they have a workable business model. I am also concerned about their press releases and then the lack of followup when there are problems, example, they have been unable to recover and sell any precious metals from the Washoe material.
my data is secondhand but from someoneelse who was there at the same time I was there and whom I trust with significant business. He and I are both RAPT investors (well underwater as are most RAPT investors)
yes within last 30 days
looks like RAPT just had a small pump, friends of the RAPT management team got a heads up to buy when was bouncing at $0.01ish and made some cash by selling to new suckers at $0.04. I would expect at least one announcement of a new biosiesel facility in the near-term (could be the in-complete EVGI facility re-sold and remember the EVGI facility was resold from a earlier sucker who ran out of money trying to have RAPT complete it and get operational - EVGI facility is pristine clean, never has had material run through it).
RAPT also has had a contract for a small mineral processing facility since late spring last year but has not been announced nor have the revenues/expenses shown up in the quarterly reports, How can that be????
Judas/Ebo
Ebo's caution on board posters is a great one. EVGI does not appear to have a cheerleader which is refreshing compared to many of the boards. While I do not live in Florida and have not worked with either EVGI or RAPT, I have had business with both and is a painful process.
The DRR blacks sands starts as most black sands deals as great value that was not recovered in the original processing, cannot be conventionally recovered because it is a complex ore (and interesting how just casually switched from a processed sand tailing to now an ore), DRR sands have been analyzed by independent labs (in this case INX labs that is claimed by RAPT to be independent but is integrally officed with RAPT) and show great value but then no one can find the analyses, Rick Langley cannot, Randall cannot, Dwayne Dundore cannot, the INX lab folks cannot, and also not the DRR folks cannot, ..... suggest asking EVGI as shareholder for a copy of the analyses that they entered into the DRR deal, ... you will hear that "well that is confidiential" but then read the EVGI/DRR agreement filed with SEC and no confidentiality, then you will hear "well the confidentiality is in some other agreement", but then re-read the SEC filing and it superceeds all other agreements so what is the deal????
I think someone(s) are hiding the "monkey". The DRR ore has been tested and is a complete bust. No recovered value but was great story with investors in town the week following the testing. And yep, no confidentiality in my agreement either. Tours were made and lots of boastful talk but the EVGI failure not discussed.
Looks to me like Rick and Randall have spent lots of their own/family money along with close investor friend money but did not "check" the story on any of the ores/sands they have contracted to process. They apparently "believed" the suppliers story and did not get good third party analyses to verify before chunking millions supposedly into facilities. They "believed" the INX lab reports that may have had a significant calibration bust. Curious how none of this is in any of the press releases.
yes, have visited their facilities both the biodiesel and the metal recovery (in two adjacent buildings). Biodiesel quiet as a tomb, metal recovery also nothing happening. Company appears real, offices, receptionist, accountant, ... lights on, cars in staff parking, ...
on precious metal recovered, apparently none. about 14.5 ton have been processed since Nov (very very low capacity for facility capable of 15 ton per day). Some apparent problem with getting the pH and free chlorine/chlorides correct for the ion excahnge to work. No ion exchange beads have been sent out for processing and recovery.
Appears that founders and investors have spent some real fairly sizable money but results are non-existant.
Todd Jones did the website maintenance and is gone, no need for Tom to go back to the "built the website" company. Tom has lost the password to access the website so cannot do an update. Could call the website hosting company and get a new one, but might have a failure to pay issue. Yes, looks like someone is living at the facility, SUV there all night everynight, someone walking a dog (a big dog), same SUV there over the weekends.
biodiesel plants. None in service. One of the earlier announced plants was never completed, owner was forced out of business, Raptor re-acquired and then resold to EVGI. Apparently little to no cash actually paid but indication of some sort of intent document (maybe expired). Plant is still in-complete (although looks great to investors on visits).
metal processing, yeah but, Raptor and Raptor management hold no patents in their names but Wes Berry does hold patents (bbuutt is now somewhat unaffiliated with Raptor). Wes engaged at his K-Technologies work. various links and non-links are available.
http://www.powerprofiles.com/profile/00005146873591/K+TECHNOLOGIES+INC-LAKELAND-FL, http://www.linkedin.com/pub/dir/Tom/Baroody/us-398-Lakeland%2C-Florida-Area http://www.linkedin.com/pub/wes-berry/a/577/956
K-Tech also goes under Process Technologies and maybe Orion Process ... http://www.corporationwiki.com/Florida/Lakeland/orion-process-technologies-llc-5845997.aspx
Biogenerators are not abandoned but not frankly a portfolio product. was old old Dundore effort now gone gone
Ebo
there is some data in the RAPT filings. Looks like three of the biofuel facilities ahve been completed but for some reason RAPT has not received the final payments and that is essentially all the profit from the deals. EVGI apparently purchased a partially completed facility but has not had the cash to have RAPT complete.
Frankly nothing proprietary about the mineral processing besides the claim, all is pretty standard techniques in the business.
The biofuel generators were actually pre-RAPT and no one at RAPT is supporting new sales. Todd Jones (now gone) had attempted to get current quote this spring but management not responsive.
If you read the next to last EVGI PR, you see reference to small processor in Groveland, apparently is at RAPT but RAPT SEC filings are not showing any revenue from a new facility. The 2000 ton Washoe plant is quiet and not capable of running any EVGI materials that require high temperature leaching.
Ebo
yes familar with all the players at the companies. Less so with EVGI, but getting more familar. And, yes, looks like EVGI management has some history and issues with past deals that you appear to be savvey to. and yes, get around there every now and then, is getting more frequent now a days. I have watched and posted for a while, if any of the PR'd deals were to really happen anywhere close to the read between the lines, the stock would soar. Reading the filings just no glimmer of substance that even past deals are paying and the supposed deals for both companies just have not resulted in revenues. EVGI is ina business where deal volume does not help if there is no cash generation. I have to wonder what planet the possible investors are from with nothing operating except on investor vist days. Back in the day, I did those visits on both sides of the transaction and know the tricks. Check the facility operations logs to verify material being run, EVGI would have had blank sheets until Investor day. Check records of lab samples being run. Visit the lab and see if the sample in table has current sample run sheets that tie to the custody chain, check to see if the custody chain log has lab samples from last week. A spic and sapn facility means the staff was cleaning not running. The pnuematic/hydraulic system has no fluid in the open control compartment means has not been run. Nameplates ground off and the location painted over means equipment came from one of the other customers facility and both customers paid for the same equipment (observed behavior!!!).
Ebo I am one of those destitute free IHUB posters, so have to post in public, no problem, I ain't hiding from EVGI.
Lots of holes in each of the posted PR's. Same for RAPT. Both are struggling, is reflected in the non-existant market and bottom-dwelling share price. EVGI has a slim window of opportunity if they can convince the rumored investors to dump money in. Lots of new faces seen in Groveland this week.
Their bio-diesel facility is dead quiet, no trucks coming in or out. Access doors are not even open showing RAPT finishing the facility - likely one needs more cash and the other does not have the cash to provide.
Neighbors to the metal facility are sleeping better because the air compressor is not running. Air compressor not running = facility not pumping process fluids and filter press not opening to collect the valuable precious metals = no liquid to their ion exchange = no possibility of precious metal on the resin.
maybe news on DRR next week.
EboJr
yep, you have good reason to be suspicious. RAPT laid off the guy doing their website updating so Tom has no one to do that.
EVGI and RAPT claim in chats with both sets of executives the Washoe ore actually was and continues to be a EVGI deal (although unannounced). The original 2000 ton/year Washoe plant is dead quiet - parts being borrowed to keep other stuff running.
This is side deal for the DRR folks, if works makes them some cash and they go merrily down the road.
the rest of the PR you started is as follows:
EVGI will initially be using a smaller system located in Groveland Florida, which has been designed to extract rare earth elements from complex ores. Traditional leaching methods have been unsuccessful in yielding significant amounts of precious metals from complex ore bodies. EVGI will be maximizing this opportunity as pilot program to crack these complex ores. EVGI is working with its joint venture partner, Raptor Technology Group, to determine the optimal design and method to process the ore supply. EVGI believes this may represent a tremendous opportunity for the company in developing an affordable, cost effective system that can process complex ores in a commercial setting. The company hopes to develop a system that can process as much as 2 to 3 tons daily of these complex ores representing significant value.
So is in Groveland, is not EVGI's big processor and the only other systems are at Raptor. Would be logical that Raptor would do the processing, we just may not be seeing that facility/processing agreement.
and a yeah but! In Tom's early PR (Feb 9th) he describes INX as follows:"The company has retained INX Labs, who will provide an independent third party analysis of the Washoe Custom Processing site". INX appears to be owned by the Dundore's so is frankly a stretch to call INX an "independent third party" with common ownership and common facilities.
My processing comment comes from a specific discussion I had with RAPT management - "taking longer than expected" was the specific comment regards the leach. Duration of leach processes to acheive desired recovery rates are variable. In my experience, durations that are developed from benchscale and pilot plant tests often are poorer in the commercial scale where effects of in-bed channeling develop and just the fuzziness of processing larger quantities of material. Based on what I heard, I think the economics are not hugely effected if RAPT is seeing even 2-3 times increases in leachtime to get good recoveries. If more than that then might be a problem. My other concern is the impact that the gangue materials may have on "consumption" of the leach liquids. Without more direct insight, speculation is not useful but if it was going very well, I would expect a PR on that success and view the lack of such a PR as not a good sign.
I agree RAPT is in a cone of silence - I also have tried to get audit info and it just is not ready yet from what I am hearing. And I think that is bad news - means to me that their accounting has been messed up and/or there are structual problems with the merger.
Processing of the Washoe material continues. The silence on results both publically and privately indicates it likely is going poorer than planned - could be lower recoveries, tailings not as rich as advertised, problems with the leach and/or problems with the extraction.
Also appears to me that RAPT is too thinnly staffed. The chief techno is part-time contractor and has apparent responsibilities with another firm - that is impacting his RAPT work and therefore our stock value. My guess is that accounting has been also impacted - if poorly staffed then greater likelihood on errors and omissions that get picked up in audit and then slower response to get those corrected when identified.
OS
the INX lab is contigeous with the RAPT offices. They have three lab spaces - a general chemistry lab, a biodiesel lab and a metals separation lab. Bench scale and small pilot plant gear in shop space behind the lab rooms.
INX is in adjacent space to Rapt in the same building but the offices are continuous. In my meeting with Rapt management we were actually in the INX meeting room. and yep, Dundore and Dundore are related.
I am having good luck in getting RAPT staff - talked with T Jones today and am getting emails from Todd, Tom and Leigh. I saw an earlier posting about busted info and IR emails - I tried both and did not get the bad address.
I did also get a note off to John Malone heading up the audit but no response.
Yep, it is a bit confusing. Raptor Technology Group appears to be the former Giddy-up (depending upon where whoever is in the reverse merger process). Raptor Fab appears to be Tom's old company/operations. The Feb 10th announcement appears to point to an audit of Raptor Fab but says nothing about an audit of the RTG/Giddy-up numbers. In the reverse that I was part of, our first audit was of the "shell" we mergered into - here it would be RTG as the shell that would have it's books audited for its prior year - Giddy-up is/was a Sept 1st thru Aug 31st reporting year so the press release of a 2009-2010 year makes sense. We have had no info on the Raptor Fab year but usually the Raptor Fab entity would adopt the "host's" reporting period.
The audir could span this merger period and bring everything up to date but the dates indicated in the release then don't make sense.
so I do not know. I am concerned about the delay frrom the original announcement of March 15 due date, and now the disappearance of the Mar 16th update from the company's website (but still shows on web searchs).
I don't understand - Tom G is passing up great opportunities to tell what is going on and all we get is nibbles. My bigger concern is the continuing delay on audit and quarterly - this long without a release suggests to me problems were found that can not be fixed, bad bad bad.
When I was there in Feb, there were about 50 visible full sacks of likely Washoe tailings. The yip yap was they were processing about 2 ton/day and the system appeared to be running when I was there.
and yep, sure wish they would say what their cut of the supposed $25K might be.
HW and the board
curious that we can have some civility in postings about the subject of this board RAPT but then that can be wiped away with dispareging comments about individuals and some posters can't get past their own rants and raves, coating the message with nice things does not change the bite.
on this board, one poster can rant and rave about me misrepresenting an author that he likes (but can't quite get the name right, and can't quite remember the title of the book and can't quite just shut the rants/raves off when some poor dumb soul tries to fill those blanks in), as best I can tell the author I found in both books and the website is very likely the author mentioned by that poster, this author's website is hawking CD's and how-to's on a particular trading method that was specifically mentioned by our poster. But rather than "yeah that my author" on the positive side, the rant starts that I am mis-representing who this hallowed scion of trading might be, (All hail to his omnipotence) and spends more time repeating ranting berating than contributing to the discource.
just for curiosty I had a psychologist colleague on mine actually look at the posting train that resulted on this board from a pretty simple question of "how can I..." that ended up at the rant and rave stage. His considered assessment (albeit from postings alone) was troubled individual. My colleague does do investing and does post only other boards so is familar with IHUBBERISMS. His and my take is that a lot of IHUBBERS do this for entertainment and some do it to glean what others may catch in news reports about companies of interest that they might miss. Some just enjoy the aninimoty of posting and like to rant and rave - IHUB has lots of board where they can go do that without having to loose their venom on an info board on a particular stock.
lots of off-topic there
RAPT might be able to recover Tellurium, do you have an ore source and could send them samples?
CdTe cells are about a 12% player in the market. First Solar appears to be the only significant company in that business from a quick look.
Big wind is sub-$40/MWhr so is today competitive with natural gas and coal in the USA. Solar is above $150/MWhr even in the biggest installation so is not competitive today (even including sub-$1/Watt cells from FirstSolar).
HW
tagging a comment with LOL does not change what was posted, that, my friend, was a TOS violation, my guess if Todd J, a real person, got that comment, he would be pretty offended, I am offended frankly that you think it is ok to make disparging remarks about individuals. I am guilty also, and I apologize.
I do get frustrated with posters who put info out and then cannot/refuse/get pissy when asked to simply show us where stuff came from. Soneone makes statements that appear factual about opportunities with specific numbers, other posters do investigate and fail to find anything like those numbers and then get rants if just ask "hey where did you get that number", or an example where a poster suggests a book to another, the second party asks a pretty simple question to help him find it and the board is then jumped with rants and raves, I go to the sites that appear to be the author that was suggested, post what is there and get jumped and misrepresenting what is on the site and then personal attacks.
rubidium is about 3 tons a year, so there may be several minerals/metals that might compete for smallest production. Maybe plutonium?
I agree there are opportunities for "rare" stuff - also has to be uses for rare stuff to drive the price!
HW
???
Todd is a pretty great young exec, he has been a good communicator with me, he was in the meeting I had with the team on Feb 23rd, been on all the phone calls and all but two emails, is it material that he did not say the same story to every body, well no, is he lying, I don't think so, I think he is new to the "start a company up" game and has not had the coaching and counseling that I have seen other young guys get.
not sure about lunch but they all play with the lizards in the Chem lab entry.
I think Tom G is a smart guy, I think he will make good decision on what makes sense regards where to locate facilities. A facility to handle a 1% rare earths ore, likely needs to be at the mine. A facility to handle a 20% rare earths concentrate can be whereever you would like it to be. I think Groveland would love to get the jobs but I also think Groveland does not want the wastes off the process so Tom then has to find a place to put what will be pretty large quantities.
my conversation was on Feb 23rd in Groveland, I have no idea about other posts that may say something different. Subsequent to my visit, I have had specific conversations by telcon (and emails) regards processing facilities at specific mine sites and regards possible shipping of concentrates I control to Groveland so is a blend of all. Frankly, if a particular site has sufficient material to involve in the 1000's of tons, really makes more sense to process at the site of the material rather than shiiping accross country. I think their press release style can lead to confusion - They clearly are fabricating and assembling substantially in Florida and then would match mark, tear down, ship to utah for Washoe, reassemble and operate.
All the principals live close by so they want any of the researchy ops and testing of new potential materials to be at Groveland so they can be pretty intimate with how the materials behave and can tune their processing.
IW
If I may, I did talk with Tom G about that and yep, they plan specific customer/JV sites so that the materials can be processed locally and the now really wastes can be disposed of locally usually under the host site's waste permits.
They are also trying to position Groveland as a place where concentrates could be processed as quanities of particularly high value might become available, an example could be ore or tailings re-processed to produce concentartes so the cost of transportation is minimized. Clearly this is then likely to morph into a third party fee for service facility, which could be useful.
I think an old question was about rail in the Groveland area, I did not cross any coming from Orlando and don't see any close on Google earth - likely is available on either the east or west coast corridor and would be easy to truck containers over, that is what I will do with my material RAPT may process but would come in through either Tampa or Jacksonville ports
Whoops I posted too soon!
I take back my appreciation for the increased civility at the RAPT board, it has gone away!!!!
I enjoy many of the posters here and wish great success on the investors in RAPT and other fine companies!!!
that probably will get me into trouble but I am cheap dude so have limited chances each day - happy trading!!!!
would like to learn more about HW's rocks and mines, looks interesting.
I would like to express my appreciation for the improved level of civility by all posters here! and what looks like a good dialog on some of the nuts and bolts of the mineral/extraction business that some of our posters may have limited knowledge on.
Rapt does appear to do leaching of the specific target metals followed by specific extraction of usually metalic salts. and it would appear that their technique can be used for almost all precious metals, the common base metals and rare earths. Likely economic ore and tailings that still have values left in them, can be processed (more metals would be more stages), prior processing tailings from historic mineral processing will work as will mine dump material where the miners discarded then un-economic ore which is economic at today's metal prices - the RAPT technique is more in the concentrated materials rather than the low % ore that the traditional mass heap leachs can process
HW
happy to post links, different boards and mods have different styles - I like links, I don't do them 100% because sometimes i see stuff and can't find it again. Jumping is ok if a poster repeatedly is saying stuff that shoulkd be factual and then refuses to provide basis. tougher to support comments like I have made about visiting RAPT and talking with the management, I don't have tollbooth records to document the travel or a signed in visitor book from the RAPT office (did have receptionist desk with receptionist but no visitor book). I guess I could have snapped a photo of my and my wife in their parking lot with the RAPT sign behind us - next time I will, not sure how to post a pictures???
If a poster says well this company I know has XX,000 tons of YYYY and that may be good for RAPT, it gets my attention - I looked the website up and sought that number, just is not there, I did paste in reply posts on the other board what I found and gernades went off, the story as I repeatly said over is quite good on its own merits, but the numbers just are not there that this poster stated - not a slam, but unlikely those numbers will ever be the subject of a link to the source he used - did get a comment about some "Kinross guy", ok but ????
I was told that audit would be out on a specific date by a RAPT exec, did not happen, another exec is now saying soon but not now, ok, I feelk out on a limb on my post - I can't show a link (it was an email and would reveal who is whom), so fingers crossed that the audit is out soon and no problems, more interested in the quarterly with extensive management notes on what is happening
thanx no apologies required on the links jumping
curious on who this Nisan is, did a search on Nasan candlestick, keeps coming up with Steve Nison and yep, there is a pretty typical website hawking CD and books and whatnot starting at $99 (discounted and that's not all!)and going up. Appears to be the same guy tha authored the book I included in a separate post.
Nison's website http://www.candlecharts.com/index.html
the following is clipped from Nison's about us
While recognized as the authority on candlestick charts, Nison is also an expert on Western technical analysis with over 30 years real world experience. As such, as a result many of his products and services incorporate both Eastern and Western technical trading techniques.
Steve, the very first to reveal the startling power of candlestick charts to the Western Hemisphere, is acknowledged as the leading authority on the subject.
Nison is the author of Japanese Candlestick Charting Techniques" and "Beyond Candlesticks". Sales of over 100,000 copies, in 11 languages, have made these books the “bibles of candlestick analysis” around the world.
Nison’s work has been highlighted in the Wall Street Journal, Barron's, Worth, Institutional Investor, and many other publications around the world.
Nison has appeared numerous times on CNBC, and his segment on FNN (the precursor to CNBC) brought in the most viewers that network ever had.
As a renowned and sought after speaker, Nison has trained professionals in 18 countries and from almost every major investment firm, on how to apply - and profit from - these methods.
Mr. Nison has spoken, by request, before the World Bank and the Federal Reserve, He has taught at numerous Universities, and major stock and commodity exchanges.
“Consider the past and you will know the future.”
(Japanese proverb)
He was among the first to receive the Chartered Market Technician (CMT) designation from the Market Technicians Association (MTA) and was nominated for the MTA's "Best of the Best" for Price forecasting/Market analysis.
Mr. Nison holds an MBA in Finance and Investments and was a Senior Technical Analyst at Merrill Lynch and a Senior Vice President at Daiwa Securities.
I am seeing posts about a Nisan, but can't find such a person in websearchs but think it likely might be referring to Steve Nison
Heya HW
thanks for the calming statements - are we now aware of the disabilities of others, not me, I assume that lots of posters have difficulties that could broadly classed disabilities and I am as a person sympathetic. But disability is not a free pass to be insulting. One of our posters did jump, pretty hard on a repeated question by another following the first poster's comments - it resulted in a pretty good rant when could have been a pretty quick link to a book, The same poster who had given the point to a resource he recos, also used pretty specific comments about quantities of stuff that might be something that RAPT could process but then refuses to show anybody where that data mightbe. I actually went to his recommended stock board and company website to see wher the source of that data might be and failed - the company does not use the numbers this poster states as fact - and then he jumps on anybody for asking.
You jumped me for not posting links, I have tried to do that to the greatest extent possible, for a free exchange of info on RAPT, makes sense, but urge that same attention to detail with all of our posters to do take a bit more energy and fill the blanks in, I am seeing newbys with what appears to be honest seeking of answers and can't fathom why a poster who throws info out can't reasonably providee a limk or just say "wewll that is my recollection but I can't go get the resource right now", the why of why not now does not matter, could be access disabilities, could be at work without the backup data, ... but to start slamming and jamming for any questions, is unfortuantely part of all-to-often IHUBBER behavior and my desire to have all of the RAPTsters avoid that. And it is ok to ignore, never need to have the last word
HW
well in to the terms of service violation with the personal attacks,
I have been appropriately Ihubbed when I got off base (usually trying to "talk" with similar "only source of knowledge on the planet types")
our fellow poster has some interesting contributions but then chooses not to support with links to what is a pretty reasonable question - would have taken less time than his attack to have googled or amazoned and sent back a response, sounds pretty bitter guy - not an attack just sympathy for a troubled soul