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AZ Im a little confused. its been a long day at the shop... I am just now catching up on posts...I thought WMIIC shut down. Was there equity interests transferred from there to somewhere else before they closed up shop? Thanks in advance...
You mean in 78 months...Because trump isnt gonna do it...
hm, thanks for the reply... Just trying to understand a couple things that are above may pay grade and how others may view it.
You can find it in the LT agreement as well as POR7
Claw, do know or remember if WMIH has any Intercompany Claims In POR7...I havent read that friggin mess for a few years now. Im not 100% sure but I think the answer is no?
If so then I agree that everything goes to Escrows and nothing WMIH...
(e) the equity interests in (i) WMI Investment (all the assets of which shall be
contributed to the Liquidating Trust, including any Intercompany Claims), (ii)
WM Mortgage Reinsurance Company (“WMMRC”), and (iii) Washington
Mutual Bank (the stock in Washington Mutual Bank was worthless and was
abandoned by WMI shortly before the Effective Date).
Im trying to wrap my head around what AZ is trying to say about the New Co. but if its not in POR7 then I cant see WHIH geting any assets...
Below is what AZ MIGHT be trying to prove...Im not sure...
14.1 Intercompany Claims and Obligations
Generally, the commencement of an insolvency proceeding under the Bankruptcy Code does not alter the treatment of valid intercompany claims. Like all other claims against a debtor, claims of a parent, subsidiary or affiliate against a debtor (collectively, “Intercompany Claims”) are entitled to pari passu treatment with claims of unaffiliated third party creditors having the same priority (i.e., secured, unsecured, subordinated, etc.) if the Intercompany Claims are valid.
While Intercompany Claims generally are entitled to pari passu treatment with other claims, they often are separately classified and afforded different treatment under chapter 11 plans of corporate debtors, particularly those with complex corporate structures. In many cases, there are no distributions under a chapter 11 plan on account of Intercompany Claims between and among debtors in the same corporate family who are reorganising in jointly administered bankruptcy cases. Instead, such claims are reinstated. The reinstatement of Intercompany Claims preserves a means for the reorganised corporate family to move cash between related entities on account of the repayment of Intercompany Claims after the company reorganises, which may be more efficient and cost-effective than transferring funds via dividends.
Complications may arise when distinct corporate entities within a corporate family have different assets and liabilities owed to third party creditors. Whether or not Intercompany Claims are recognised and respected may significantly impact the recoveries of third-party creditors. Creditors may insist that Intercompany Claims be taken into account when calculating the recoveries of third party creditors at different corporate entities. Even when Intercompany Claims are taken into account when calculating recoveries to third-party creditors, Intercompany Claims may still be reinstated as part of a chapter 11 plan so that they can be used by the reorganised company to efficiently transfer value within the reorganised corporate enterprise.
https://practiceguides.chambersandpartners.com/practice-guides/insolvency-2018/usa/14-intercompany-issues
I guess it depends if the cash part is taken literaly or not. Who knows.
Yes I agree Bob but, depending on how one interprets the below is could swing both ways maybe? who knows.
WMI Liquidating Trust (the “Liquidating Trust”) serves as a mechanism for liquidating,
converting to cash and distributing the Liquidating Trust Assets (as further described in these
FAQs) to the holders of beneficial interests in the Liquidating Trust (the “Liquidating Trust
Beneficiaries”). The Liquidating Trust will not continue, nor engage in at any time, the conduct
of any trade or business other than the liquidation and distribution of the Liquidating Trust
Assets, and is intended to qualify as a “liquidating trust” for federal income tax purposes under
applicable Treasury regulations.
EscrowDollars, I think AZ is a very smart and likable guy but he really doesnt make it clear what he believes is going to happen. Almost like a secret that we have to figure out...
We do know that the NEW Co. (WMIH) has the potential to be HUGE....
My problem is how do we connect Escrows with the new company?
Can we connect escrows with the new company?
There are only two ways imo to connect them both.
(I am not sold on either on but i am open to it)
1) S4V
2) WMIH pays cash for escrows. (unlikely for obvious reasons)
So what is AZ saying when he says watch the New Co.?
1) Does he mean the new company is going to skyrocket and we will make our money on the shares they have given us years ago??
2) Does he mean somehow WMIH will use escrow assets and pay for them via cash or S4V???
I dont know.......
What I do know is escrow shares were and never will be tradable...You cannot sell/trade your position...Dont confuse escrow markers with shares...You cannot have 120k escrows and end up with 10k escrows...Your escrows cannot be reverse split....Escrows CANNOT be reduced.....
I hope this answers part of your question.
But for how long? Indefinitely? I would think the board could draw it up then put it to a shareholders vote. We know what the outcome of that would be as we retail dont hold many shares/votes...
I think the no brainer from a CEO point of view would be going private in 12-18 month after RS.
Not saying it will happen but looking at the players that own the majority of the company and possible assets coming in and the shear upward potential here why would you even need/want shareholders? Shareholders would be like a jamb car when your on your way to the front of the pack...Just sayin...
How bout now?
I guess we will be seeing Clay's chart soon then...lol
I guess it depends if the WMI Trust has any dibs to SH assets?
1.6 No Reversion to Debtors. In no event shall any part of the Liquidating Trust Assets revert
to or be distributed to any Debtor or Reorganized Debtor.
http://www.kccllc.net/documents/8817600/8817600120507000000000001.pdf
Sounds like a plan. Is there anyone here that can take one for the team?
Im not seeing it...
Yep, I agree. The process sucks and we dont know what we dont know... Great post Biz....
You forgot this one.
25.2 Cancellation of Common Equity Interests: Notwithstanding the provisions of Section 25.1 hereof, on the Effective Date, all Common Equity Interests shall be deemed extinguished and the certificates and all other documents representing such Equity Interests shall be deemed cancelled and of no force and effect.
I Think most people here have been here as long as ten years and I would think Most are watching the (New Co.) like a hawk
There is no question in most of our minds WMIH/COOP will do extremely well...
I do think some here are concerned though because either they dont have a lot of WMIH shares OR they sold their WMIH shares. One poster (fsshon) was here a long time. He posted on 7/31 that he sold all his shares. (some others as well) That is very unfortunate imo but he is banking on escrow payments.
I think most people here are confused what mechanism / vehicle will be used to pay escrows. I think you stated nothing will come through the LT.
Does that mean they all go through WMIH or some other entity?
What is your thought on this?
I agree but, with retail being a small percentage (10%) of ownership with no real voting power to sway anything why would they even bother?
I was looking at those last night. There are a lot of them. Not sure I can identify them for more research.
Yep, lost 80k that day...I remember VERY well.....
Volume was still good. You can have record breaking volume everyday.
Not to mention 4.5% increase
1m volume in the last 20 mins
Thats a real long shot but would not hate it...lol
Yep you were right Bob...
40's almost gone 41's coming up
wow 1.39 on lasted a couple seconds
1.39 now
1.38 just printed nice...
The question remains, IF those are WMI assets how do they come to us? What vehicle will put that cash in our hands?
Not that it matters but I expect we could see some weird after hours trades
Certainly looking that way...
I was gonna say that but I figured it wasnt worth it....LOL
I hear ya Bob. It would have been nice for that to happen before WMIH starts its climb so we can add shares.
ok so follow WMIH is his theory. ok great... Lets do that then since we have not been doing that already.....
Exactly. Is there something he is leaving out of hid riddle??? Who knows...lol
Ok Perfect...Just WHAT is his theory???Thats all I want to know...
No I do not but, but if he has a theory on the new company and us getting paid id really like to hear it...(watch the new co) just isnt doing it for me...
No disrespect to AZ but, I just dont get his riddles....WTF does this mean??? (watch the new WMIH) Im guessing he means WMIH gets WMI assets that will rocket WMIH to the moon??? How does that help us??? All we have is the shares that were issued to us...Does he expect them to give us more??? I dont get the riddles he babbles. Im certainly open to any and all opinions but he leaves everything open ended with no (how) or end result...Does anybody here get it????
Trumpster style...I'll take it...