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Will briefs be posted on kccllc?
madclown - Thanks for posting.
Bluzie - It did have to do with 02 vs. 03. Hochman was claiming that one version was never intended to be legal. The signature page was out of place. The warrant agent, I think, didn't have an original. They debated whether it was a copy or a faxed version, Hochman claiming a copy wasn't legal. The judge was confused by the whole distinction but Hochman did put some doubt on the version Strochak wants in place. The whole thing sounded kind of sketchy.
But, I wasn't aware there was an issue.
Walrath just ended it by saying she assumed they'd both cover it in their briefs.
I thought Goulding completely made our case that the board of directors did nothing to protect our interests - never even discussed it. I don't think he rolled over; I think he was just telling the truth.
You've got me wondering how he got his job. Will we ever get "FULL DISCOVERY on these criminals"?
There was an exchange at the end between Strochack and Hochman about which warrant agreement was valid, having to do with whether section 4.2 is fully in the current agreement. I think. I didn't realize there was any issue there. The judge didn't seem too concerned with it though.
I get it now. SNH hedge funds propose "We'll give you, jpm, the entire Anchor proceeds of 400 million. We keep the ltw obligation because we'll call them equity, costing us nothing. In return, wmi will keep assets A, B and C, which will of course flow directly into our pockets, and never reach LTW holders or common shareholders."
This is so incredibly wrong. Somehow the judge has to be made to see this.
I haven't followed the wmi side enough.
Hedge funds are so completely out of control in this country. They really need to be smacked down.
Our side is, of course led by blackwell and nantahala, but they're still the good guys.
"BOD so hosed IMO" This all seems directed at going after the board in the future. How much cash do they have?
Great Thanks. I'll be listening.
We will have audio tomorrow right? Dan, david?
My understanding is that halfull is right that the jpm fdic fight should have no bearing on us. Wmi still has the obligation to pay, because as Bluzie has said, it's already been agreed that they violated the warrant agreement.
That said, additional uncertainty doesn't help.
Thanks Catz for the input.
Jared - That's a clear way to put it.
I thought that she did nothing for their side.
I sold down to about 10% of what I once owned a few months ago when I felt I had lost any idea of our odds in this. I'm starting to think that at this price they may be a better risk/reward than they've ever been. I can't claim to understand the legal issues but most of what I've heard has sounded good for us. BTW I can't claim to have ever understood this.
I also think the judge is inclined to favor a basic "fairness" argument. Smacking down the hedge funds seemed to me a good sign, but who knows.
I'm wondering - What does a price of 70 cents indicate as to the odds the market is putting on us winning.
30% 40? Anyone?
New York Times Dealbook Article ... from wamu page
http://dealbook.nytimes.com/2011/09/14/judge-says-hedge-funds-may-have-used-inside-information/
Judge Says Hedge Funds May Have Used Inside Information
By CHARLES DUHIGG and PETER LATTMAN
September 14, 2011, 9:28 pm
Legal/Regulatory | Restructuring/Bankruptcy
There have long been whispers on Wall Street that hedge funds have hijacked the bankruptcy process, using their influence as debt holders to obtain and trade on insider information about when and how a company will restructure.
A federal court ruling highlighted such concerns late Tuesday when a judge raised the possibility that four large hedge funds might have used confidential information to trade in the debt of Washington Mutual.
The issue was raised amid the derailment of Washington Mutual’s emergence from bankruptcy protection, the final chapter in the largest bank failure in the nation’s history.
Judge Mary F. Walrath, in dismissing a proposed settlement in the federal bankruptcy court in Delaware, wrote that four hedge funds that had played a role in Washington Mutual’s restructuring might have received confidential information that could have been used to trade improperly in the bank’s debt.
The four hedge funds are Appaloosa Management, Aurelius Capital Management, Centerbridge Partners and Owl Creek Asset Management. All have denied any wrongdoing.
The Washington Mutual bankruptcy, and Judge Walrath’s ruling, have slightly thrown back the covers on the sharp-elbowed tactics used by investors in trading the stocks and bonds of companies in Chapter 11 bankruptcy protection. That market has exploded in recent years, driven by hedge funds buying up the loans of companies in bankruptcy at a steep discount in the hopes of obtaining big profits when the companies emerge from Chapter 11.
Judge Walrath’s ruling is a victory for the Washington Mutual shareholders who claimed that hedge funds had been using insider knowledge to influence proceedings and seek profits. And the ruling is a potential blow to the funds — who have long argued they acted properly — and the large law firm Fried, Frank, Harris, Shriver & Jacobson, which was representing some of the funds and is accused of passing them confidential information.
Part of Judge Walrath’s ruling focused on a dispute involving $4 billion held by JPMorgan Chase when Washington Mutual was put into bankruptcy. Early in the bankruptcy proceedings, Washington Mutual claimed ownership of those funds, and in confidential settlement talks, JPMorgan agreed to hand them over.
If the public had been aware of that agreement, the value of Washington Mutual’s bonds would probably rise, since the $4 billion could be used to pay bondholders, including hedge funds that had bought the debt.
The deal, however, was kept secret.
Lawyers representing some Washington Mutual shareholders, in a brief filed this year, claimed that lawyers from Fried, Frank, Harris, Shriver & Jacobson, which was involved in the bankruptcy negotiations, told its clients, the hedge funds, about the secret agreement. As a result, those hedge fund investors were able to buy bonds on the cheap, and then wait for their value to rise when the agreement came to light.
Judge Walrath, in her Tuesday decision, noted that certain shareholders said that Fried, Frank “was under a written confidentiality agreement barring it from sharing information with its clients, unless they were subject to confidentiality agreements of their own. Nonetheless, on July 1, 2009, Fried, Frank shared summaries of the April negotiations with both Centerbridge and Appaloosa, who were not at the time subject to a confidentiality agreement.” Centerbridge, the judge wrote, continued to trade in Washington Mutual bonds, while Appaloosa voluntarily restricted its trading activities.
The hedge funds and others have argued that though they may have had talks with Fried, Frank or others privy to confidential information, they received no “material information” that would rise to the level of insider trading.
The judge did not rule on whether the hedge funds had committed wrongdoing or whether the claims made by shareholders’ lawyers were true. Still, those accusations, she wrote, were “a colorable claim that” the hedge funds had “received material nonpublic information,” that could be resolved only through further inquiry.
But first, the judge wrote, the parties should go to mediation to resolve the dispute.
Representatives of Fried, Frank and Aurelius Capital Management declined to comment on the judge’s ruling. Owl Creek Asset Management did not return phone calls seeking its perspective. Centerbridge Partners declined to comment.
End Of Line.
10:30 on the 20th for 2-3 hours Strochack to question Chamberlain and discussion of how to conduct(?) briefings. The full audio days 1-3 is on the viewip page in its Totality. Sorry.
Convertible bonds are traded on nasdaq. She keeps saying only equity trades on nasdaq.
Drink!
I think she's switched over to our side. She starting to sound like our expert.
Just tuned in and she's used three totalities. One as I'm typing.
If this was PM we could make a drinking game out of this.
I think she was a good witness for them, but it'll be more interesting tomorrow. They're pushing the point that ltw's were issued to specifically pay out in stock because of tax benefits. They could have been structured to pay in cash but weren't. And investors understood that they paid in stock.
She made point that Ltw's were nasdaq traded - debt is traded otc. However, I know convertibles have always been traded with a G on nasdaq. They would be seen as debt rather than equity in bankruptcy right?
The whole point that being covered by equity analysts has some kind of meaning seems silly to me.
I couldn't listen closely but she struck me as sensible and she worried me a little at points. I'm sure it will come across differently with Steinberg asking the questions.
Anyone else?
Phone dial in working now if anyone cares. sound is terrible but working
Thank God! 5 more minutes.
Worked earlier. Not working now. This works. http://www.justin.tv/astockinvestor#/w/1761152336
The
I'm on Justin tv stream. Went out at one point but I think that was all.
This whole correlation segment is ridiculous. Stupid.
I don't know either But I would think if they can't be exchanged or "exercised" the trigger hasn't triggered. It may not matter at all anyway; I just noticed they focused on it for a minute.
Strochack was I think starting to make a point about a distinction in treatment based on the trigger. Levine said Golden ltw's had been seen as debt, but Stro pointed out the triggering event had not yet happened.( He needed Levine to supply him with the term "trigger". In our case the anchor suit isn't done so we haven't had the triggering event. I think he's trying to make the point that once we're triggered we're equity. Before we're triggered there's no money to distribute. I get the idea they're somehow going further with something in that direction.
I thought Levine was fantastic. He made a rock solid case for us deserving to be paid, and I have to believe he swayed the judge in our favor. This may get down to semantics and legal fine points tomorrow, but we are the side that's making logical sense right now. Hopefully that counts.
They've asked him so many times "are you with me?" It sounds like he's dozing off or something.
Wow this guy is good.
He just explained why an equity analyst would cover an ltw. It's not because they're equity.
I thought the most interesting point was that they had not been accounted for as equity in the dime wamu merger. And they are identical to Golden State ltw's which were treated as a liability.
Now it's Strochack's turn.
Thanks Catz and Half. I'm from NJ, more like 2 1/2 hours away. It's unlikely I'll be able to go, but I would like to. To be honest, I usually don't understand enough to provide much useful input on the legal front. I'd like to see expressions and faces though. Just listening to Steinberg is entertaining. STEINBERG COMES ALIVE From Wilmington!
What an ugly market. I may not have money for gas by the end of the day.
Half - Is the courtroom open to everyone? If I drive three hours to get there will I definitely get in?
He sounds like an expert to me. Has the equity committee paid for the audio link thus far? It would be par for the course for them to refuse to pay for us while wmi claims we are equity.
I was never sure why or how we had the audio hookup.
Thanks moderators. I love the ibox headline Washinton Mutual awarded 382 million by court, from March 2008. If only it was that simple. The story of dimez from it's inception, including the winstar story, has to be one of the longest and most bazaar investment stories ever. It's certainly been a lot more interesting than a mutual fund. It'll almost be sad to see it end one day.
It sounds like they spent an hour on how much time they'd each get. If I was the judge I think my head would explode listening to this.
I like the fact that there have been buyers during this stage. It's going well for us in the courtroom.
Dear Irish: Good luck with Syncora. I hope you make a fortune. I'd recommend you put your windfall into BAC but it'll be much higher by then.
I've lost track. When do we go to trial on class status? September something?
Dime benefiting from a flight to quality. Investors are holding on to blue chips like dime.
The inimitable jmbell is in the running for moderator of the year.
11. Conversion of Series H Convertible Preferred Shares
On September 17, 2010, YA converted eighty six (86) shares of Series H Convertible Preferred Stock into 2,866,724 shares of our Common Stock. At September 30, 2010, YA owns 9,574 shares of Series H Convertible Preferred Stock, which are convertible into approximately 319,130,000 shares of our Common Stock
http://www.otcmarkets.com/edgar/GetFilingHtml?FilingID=7557541
Party Pooper Butterknife!
Anyone know anything about a series H prferred convertible into hundreds of millions of shares?