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Award is plus a gross-up to cover federal taxes.
Legal fees I thought had been paid by the company all along. It was not on a contingency basis.
BTW, you guys might consider that some of the guys on this board pumping it with predictions of $10, may have sold you your stock.
Whenever I'm on ihub I get the urge to see if you guys are still here, and sure enough you are!
Your old shares are extinguished in a por approved and signed by a judge. They cease to exist anywhere else but on this message board. It is not a shell. It is extinguished. It's all in the filings.
Tax question - Your new WMIH, from whatever security you received it, - Does your account show your cost at zero? Or, dis you retain your old wamu cost?
I show long wmih at zero after owning dime. I obviously don'e want a profit reported when I sell it. Etrade tells me on the 1099 they will not report my cost as zero and I will be able to calculate my actual cost and report that.
Anyone?
Question - Does yout broker have you long WMIH at zero?
Dime conversion hit. I received .056 cents plus .0546 shares WMIH. At .68 last the wmih is worth .0371 making the package worth .0931 cents.
I received .056 cents plus .0546 shares WMIH. At .68 last the wmih is worth .0371 making the package worth .0931.
If you chose, as halffull did, all stock and got .11467 wmi/dime using his numbers, your shares are worth .078 cents using 68 cents last.
At least it's over.
Fine wine?! Are you guys serious here or is this a goof? Your shares are worthless and will be extinguished when the plan is finalized. The por is approved and signed by the judge. It cancels common stock. It's not a shell. It's not a lotto. It's very similar though to finding a losing lotto ticket in your wallet. Think of it that way.
The moderators have left the building.
Doing nothing is an option I've considered. If something happens with an appeal you'd still have them. And you'll still get the class 12 cash unless we've read the gibberish incorrectly.
But, I think it's over, and I'd like to receive the small portion of new stock.
CWG Will do. Thanks.
Brutus -Correct! Do you understand item 3? I can't get a good explanation. By choosing runoff notes in lieu of cash, are we giving up cash from class 12? I want the 5 cents or so from class 12, plus the 8.77% of the equity 30% or whatever portion of new stock. Any idea what to fill in on the form? Kcc was no help.
I have to read the plan sections referenced on the form. I just noticed the long paragraph above the item 3 box is one sentence. It's incomprehensible.
My inclination is to opt in and nothing else but I have to read further.
It also seems that at 5 cents these may be worth buying.
And you are exactly correct. Another portion of the plan states that the cash will be set aside and on three month intervals the debtor will attempt to contact holders.
CWG - Election questions. Our election form is for our class 21 distribution, meaning that the item 3 runoff section only applies to class 21 cash (zero) - not the class 12 (9 minus 3.2), correct?
If we opt in we will receive the 5 cents or so from class 12 regardless of what we check below - is that right?
Since there will be no cash for class 21. I think we want to check both boxes and select "all" or 100%
I know this was discussed before, but I'm not clear on it.
Anyone? KCC has no answers.
Brutus - You are correct as I understand it on the one year to grant release and still receive class 12 cash. It's in the plan. Still trading I don't know.
Dime receives "Pro Rata share of 8.77% of whatever percentage (if any) that Common Equity Interests get under the Plan. Common Equity Interests are currently slated to share 30% of Newco but this is subject to Court approval;"
I think this is correct. 8.77% of the shares issued to equity.
That was quoted from Rodney Mcfadden, not me, http://www.distressed-debt-investing.com/2012/01/advanced-distressed-debt-lesson.html
We do not have to release by Feb 29 IMO. Read section 31.6. and rodney Mcfadden. You will give up your right to new stock but will be entitled to receive class 12 and 18 cash (if there is any) by providing releases within 1 yr of effective date. I can't guarantee this is correct but it's how I read it. Read it for yourself. If you think some other avenue will be pursued this would allow you to participate. Not saying you should.
By the way - I could be wrong. I'd like to see other input.
Certain Holders of Claims and Equity Interests Are Entitled to Wait Until After
the Effective Date to Make Non-Debtor Release Elections Pursuant to Section
31.6(c) of the Seventh Amended Plan
Pursuant to Section 31.6(c) of the Seventh Amended Plan, and notwithstanding anything
to the contrary set forth therein, all holders of Claims who fail to execute the Non-Debtor Release
Election (other than (a) holders that affirmatively elect to opt out of granting such releases, (b) holders in
unimpaired Classes that are not subject to such releases, and (c) holders of Claims in Class 17A and Non-
Filing WMB Senior Note Holders), can make such election at a later date, as long as it is in accordance
with the procedures set forth in Section 31.6(c) of the Seventh Amended Plan and the timeframe set forth
therein (i.e., on or prior to the one (1) year anniversary of the Effective Date). By failing to submit any
Non-Debtor Release Election on or prior to the Voting and Election Deadline, any such holder will
not be eligible to receive a distribution from the Debtors on the Effective Date, and will only be
entitled to receive a distribution from the Debtors if such holder grants the releases set forth in the Non-
Debtor Release Provision within the timeframe set forth in Section 31.6(c) of the Seventh Amended Plan
(i.e., on or prior to the one (1) year anniversary of the Effective Date) and is otherwise entitled, pursuant
to the Seventh Amended Plan, to receive a distribution.
Ty - According to McFadden that's not right. One can provide releases within 12 months following release date and receive the class 12 cash and possible 18 money. You'd receive no new stock. I don't know that he's correct but he's been accurate.
http://www.distressed-debt-investing.com/2012/01/advanced-distressed-debt-lesson.html
Class Representatives' Reply to Objections to Motion for Approval of Settlement Resolving Adversary Proceeding Between Debtors and Class Representatives for the LTW Holders
http://www.kccllc.net/documents/0812229/0812229120130000000000001.pdf
Wow that was fast service. Thanks for the reply and thanks for not guessing.
Catz - Wrong board, but dime holders should have until Feb 28 to opt in or out, correct? We don't have a vote.
Thanks for all the info.
.026 of the 190 number adds about .045 cents in newco stock to the 8 cent cash payment for a total of 12.5 cents.
Holty "8.77% of the Reorganized Common Stock (as such
term is defined in the Seventh Amended Plan),
distributed to holders of Common Equity Interests
(the "Allowed Equity Portion," and collectively"
As Claw said before, I think its 8% of the 30%, or about 2.6% of the whole.
No announcement on what the settlement is. Yet
Settlement.
I think it's wrong to take it as fact that we will be getting 70 something %, or any percent of the newco. We may, but I think the debtors will still be fighting for us to get zero and I would not presume to know what the judge's ruling means exactly for dime. Add in that if given newco stock we may screw up the nol picture and there's reason to settle with us or to give us nothing.
I think there is still risk here of going to zero.
The flux capacitator is signaling STRONG BUY!! Long and STRONG baby! 20 Cents tomorrow! The MM's are holding it down on level 4!
Half - That was good. I guess 8 months isn't so long though in a case from 1995 (I think). The American Savings case was from 1992. They should have flipped a coin on both 15 years ago. Actually they should have decided in favor of the banks who got screwed.
Value - I know it's "clear as mud". But based on the judges decision are we sharing in the 30% of the newco as equity?
Does the madclown value of between 5 & 10 cents make sense based on the currents POR?
Thanks Holty. I just want to make sure we're somewhere in the mix for the 30% of the newco.
This is class 21 right? Subordinated to the level of equity. Not 18 correct?
Smartest post I've seen in a while.
Go Away!
Nascow - Thanks check this please.- If we value the wmi newco at 210 mil and equity receives 30% we theoretically have 60 mill $ in new stock to divy up between us and wamu. By the POR - The amount estimated by the Bankruptcy Court as the maximum amount in which the Disputed Claims relating to the Dime Warrants may ultimately become Allowed Claims times the per share price of Common Equity Interests on a date established by the Bankruptcy Court bears to the market capitalization of all other Common Equity Interests (as determined by the Bankruptcy Court using such same per share price)
So, 350 mil times 5 cents(price wamu) is about 17 million. wamu market cap is about 100 mill. we are about 17%. 17% of 60 mill is 10 mill or about ten cents per dime. That's .10 "worth" of new stock.
If we get 1 share of wamu we're obviously screwed.
Does that make sense? Not fair but does that make seem to follow?
We should be getting 7 billion shares of wamu but that can't happen.
wamuq is actually holding up. It's hard to believe but this is more of a crap shoot than ever. There's no way of knowing what this is worth.
"even if this ruling is wrong, and that ruling is 21 for example, only wager what you are willing to lose as an appeal my not get you a real second bite because the court may not even take the appeal."
Now, that's useful information. Thanks.
I'm hoping my only decision next week will be whether to make a 2.25 sale or hold for higher. Class 18 or 21 will make for tougher decisions.
Anyone have an opinion as to what the immediate price reaction would be to class 18 or 21? I think it was the first POR that brought us down to a penny or so. Class 21 has some value now as equity. 18 still leaves open an appeal.
18 - 10 cents
21 - 20 cents ??? plus or minus a lot.
"It will not be out tomorrow but it "should" be out by Tuesday." Judge's exact words.
As 2011 draws to a close I'd like nominate Jared as the board's Gentleman of the Year for unceasing patience and civility.
My vote for best expressions goes to the Grudge for "be your huckleberry" and "Those who say don't know...."
Best use of color, bold and other boxes on the left goes to Mr Death.
Bluzie gets the Ben Graham award for long term value investing.
If subordination and class 18 has become less likely, and if class 21 with a loss of NOL's has become less likely, it seems the odds of class 12 or a cash settlement have increased.
My uneducated gut feeling tells me something between the current price and $3 has become more likely. But where would it come from w/o upsetting the rest of the cart I don't know.