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JWW, if you can get with COOP Executives and find out the time frame for something to happen with Xome, then you will have the answer to the timeframe for our distributions.
My bet is that COOP does NOT actually own Xome. This is why it has never been valued or monetized properly.
I say Xome is tied up in a DST which is owned by the investors who have timely signed releases which will ULTIMATELY be owned by WMI.
Then WMI buys Xome and other assets (cash pile) from investors who signed releases by issuing private placement securities relative to what they owned when they signed releases.
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Bizreader, I have read where this new AI stuff has actually returned confidential/sealed information so maybe this could get fun in the WaMu case with over 800 court-sealed and redacted filings.
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Strike, 800 plus sealed, court-redacted filings...so one or more of these would tell us everything we want to know.
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I wish I knew the answer to your question. There are probably ten or fewer people that know that answer.
However, I believe we see a COOP Material Event that requires an 8K filing between May 11 and June 30, 2023. I will further GUESS, GUESS that it has something to do with those investors who signed timely releases by 3/2012.
As I always say, filings and time passing will show us the way forward.
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Sitting next to Harry in the red headed stepchild section
newflow, you said the following:
They did something between 01/10/2020 and 03/31/2022 in furtherance of Plan and GSA,IMO.
Plan Contribution Assets being retained by the Debtors pursuant to the terms of this Agreement and the Plan
“Purchase Price” shall mean the consideration paid, sold, assigned and
transferred by the Acquisition JPMC Entities pursuant to the 363 Sale and Settlement,
including, without limitation, (a) the contribution and waiver of distributions with respect
to the JPMC Allowed Unsecured Claim, (b) the waiver of any and all right, title and
interest the Acquisition JPMC Entities may have in or to the Plan Contribution Assets
being retained by the Debtors pursuant to the terms of this Agreement and the Plan, (c)
the assumption of the Assumed Liabilities and (d) the payment of certain Allowed Claims
pursuant to the Plan
https://www.fdic.gov/resources/resolutions/bank-failures/failed-bank-list/wamu-global-settlement-agreement.pdf
THEY DID SOMETHING WITH THE RETAINED ASSETS, FOR SURE IMO.
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NEWFLOW, remember WMI was a DST (2/23/2012) BEFORE the (ED) Effective Date of March 19, 2012 when the WMILT came to life so SAFE HARBOR/BK Remote assets may have already been part of the DST BEFORE 3/19/2012, therefor NO ASSETS to distribute from WMILT other than the 7B in assets Rosie discussed
The following is from Amended POR 7 signed by the court on 2/23/2012
set forth in the Confirmation Order, the members of the Trust Advisory Board hereby designate William C. Kosturos in connection with the applicable provisions of the Delaware Statutory Trust Act, 12 Del. C. § 3801 et seq.
4) NOW FORGET WMILT which was canceled on 12/31/2021
5) Remember, A DST CANNOT BE OPENED unless there are assets so what do you have left with the aforementioned facts...The answer is a DST that is funded with assets and to who do those assets belong. In my view those investors who signed timely releases
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newflow, as usual, great diligence and fact-finding. You said the following.
Whoever took care of the assets and the assets were administered and monitored by Trust Advisory Board including 4 common and preferred equity members through Jan 2020 and later monitored by Charles Smith and Doreen Logan pursuant to restated and amended LTA.
Then maybe we can track some facts from the point of WMILT cancelation which happened on 12/31/2021, then through the misc details which were supposed to be completed by 3/31/2022, I believe. Remember, because WMILT was canceled on 12/31/2021 and NOT dissolved this meant one of a few options which include distributions, merger, consolidation, and more. Which route did they take?
I still say DSTs will play a vital role in our future distributions!
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Now what we need to know about the restated and amended LTA is the date which this was amended. I think this can be found with some research in BP as Alice litigated this subject
Remember, Alice fought for all of us to know what was changed/amended in the LTA as we as investors who signed timely releases by 3/2012 had EVERY RIGHT TO KNOW but the crooked Judge slammed Alice, UNFORTUNATELY.
Now, in all honestly to the Judge, did she do us a favor to ward off potential litigation morass if what was changed in the LTA is what we are looking for? There is no way to know at this time, however, we should have had the right to know as investors to ensure there is no nefarious behavior.
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Stox, this is not over until we see distributions and/or releases finally signed and the latest when the Receivership closed/terminated
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COOP 2023 Annual Meeting To be held Thursday, May 11, 2023:
My thoughts are if we are going to see any action regarding shares to be issued, distribution acknowledgment, or other we will see this on or before the second quarter ends which is June 30, 2023.
So, the SWEET SPOT for such an event would be AFTER the meeting on May 11 and on/before June 30, 2023. The new Libor program kicks in on June 30, 2023.
Only time passing and filings will show us the way forward.
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Thank for checking …makes sense
Chaleco, hmmm, hmmm…UWBKQ bk case is still open and not terminated
I wonder if this could be deemed a positive to ultimate closing of UWVKQ bk case very soon then ultimate Fred sponsored distributions?
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Investors were also keeping close tabs on shares of First Republic (FRC) as the struggling lender appeared set to enter FDIC receivership this weekend with reports suggesting the US government has been unable to secure a buyer for the bank.
First Republic stock fell more than 40% on Friday.
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Investors were also keeping close tabs on shares of First Republic (FRC) as the struggling lender appeared set to enter FDIC receivership this weekend with reports suggesting the US government has been unable to secure a buyer for the bank.
First Republic stock fell more than 40% on Friday.
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The Rockefeller tale begins with German con artist Christian Karl Gerhartsreiter (McCormack) coming to the U.S. in 1979 as a foreign exchange student.
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NDT, I would be glad to share it with the group, however, I was told in confidence and I will respect that.
However, if it happens or NOT within that date, I will share it with you post-June 30, 2023.
Just know there is NO WAY to know for sure but it sure looks like a piece that MAY, MAY connect the dots
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EXO, this is truly a GREAT post filled with common sense and in my view spot on correct!
The following is EXOs post:
All here feel the same, we hope this will wrap up soon and payments for those that did what was necessary to get them. You know little things like buy the shares and release the shares on time should get paid. Some think nothing is coming back but that is called a chapter 7 bankruptcy right??? We had a chapter 11 bankruptcy!!!! Please look up the difference... Chapter 11 is an on going concern!!!! It was proved in court... That means more to come people by definition... So simple a concept... I am trying to make it so simple a child can understand, but not come off condescending... If you believe nothing is coming back I am happy for you staying here for no apparent logical reason... remember you, not me think nothing is coming back, so why stay??? I had a friend that used to try to pis$ off others years ago. He held no shares but loved to stir the pot... I firmly believe that old share holders will be just fine.
Remember the judge would not pierce the corporate veil, scolded lawyers to not bring that up again in her court. Shiela went to Congress to change the laws on holding company's. They did change it going forward but that did NOT affect LEHMAN of WAMU. Going forward holding company's do not have the protections we received. Remember this is a Ch 11 so there is a going concern. It may not be an immediate pay day... DOOOUUUGGGHHHHH The company has to deal with their share holders in time but there are many unresolved issues. A HUGE one is the FDIC-R has not been released yet. In turn they have a small matter of $299,000,000,000.00 (299 Billion)... With no losses to the FDIC, hahahahahaha I would guess not... hahahahaha So I could go on but it does not matter what PROOF is provided, we can not say with 100% certainty what EXACTLY my/our company has... While a little frustrating I can not pierce the corporate veil either. We have educated guesses on what there is but after a decade only a few know and they are not talking, are they...
Will LEHMAN be a possible merger for more shareholder value???Maybe... One thing is for certain, this is a going concern per Chapter 11 status. Time will tell us all and our opinions will not affect the outcome!!!
Hero or Zero... you get to decide for yourself... but make no mistake this is NOT OVER!!!!
Have a great Day!!!
EXO
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Ray, honestly for this type of question you should consult a Professional in the tax arena
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Nah, it is NOT over until one crosses the finish line and that would be once everyone is released and the Receivership is officially terminated.
However, based on some information that MAY be correct the sweet spot is between now and June 30, 2023.
Only time passing and filings will show us the way forward.
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Newflow, yes a DAT for LARGE REASONS:
EXPLAIN THE FOLLOWING WITH HONEST DILIGENCE AND/OR FACT-FINDING:
1) AMENDED POR 7 was signed by the court on 2/23/2012
2) WMILT BECAME PART OF THE PLAN on the (ED) Effective Date of March 19, 2012, designed to pay off ALL Creditors with some di minimus shares coming to Tranche Six which is Preferred Equity Interests and Common Equity Interests. This included an OWNERSHIP CHANGE which gave the former WaMu Estate to those investors who signed timely releases by 3/2012 in my view
3) The following is from Amended POR 7 signed by the court on 2/23/2012
set forth in the Confirmation Order, the members of the Trust Advisory Board hereby designate William C. Kosturos in connection with the applicable provisions of the Delaware Statutory Trust Act, 12 Del. C. § 3801 et seq.
4) NOW FORGET WMILT which was canceled on 12/31/2021
5) Remember, A DST CANNOT BE OPENED unless there are assets so what do you have left with the aforementioned facts...The answer is a DST that is funded with assets and to who do those assets belong. In my view those investors who signed timely releases
6) I have always said a DST will play a vital role in our eventual distributions and I think this post proves that but does NOT prove when or how much other than I will say a multitude of tens of billions.
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BBANBOB, exactly and as EXO says ZERO response from the Haters to the following post.
EXPLAIN THE FOLLOWING WITH HONEST DILIGENCE AND/OR FACT-FINDING:
1) AMENDED POR 7 was signed by the court on 2/23/2012
2) WMILT BECAME PART OF THE PLAN on the (ED) Effective Date of March 19, 2012, designed to pay off ALL Creditors with some di minimus shares coming to Tranche Six which is Preferred Equity Interests and Common Equity Interests. This included an OWNERSHIP CHANGE which gave the former WaMu Estate to those investors who signed timely releases by 3/2012 in my view
3) The following is from Amended POR 7 signed by the court on 2/23/2012
set forth in the Confirmation Order, the members of the Trust Advisory Board hereby designate William C. Kosturos in connection with the applicable provisions of the Delaware Statutory Trust Act, 12 Del. C. § 3801 et seq.
4) NOW FORGET WMILT which was canceled on 12/31/2021
5) Remember, A DST CANNOT BE OPENED unless there are assets so what do you have left with the aforementioned facts...The answer is a DST that is funded with assets and to who do those assets belong. In my view those investors who signed timely releases
6) I have always said a DST will play a vital role in our eventual distributions and I think this post proves that but does NOT prove when or how much other than I will say a multitude of tens of billions.
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EXPLAIN THE FOLLOWING WITH HONEST DILIGENCE AND/OR FACT-FINDING:
1) AMENDED POR 7 was signed by the court on 2/23/2012
2) WMILT BECAME PART OF THE PLAN on the (ED) Effective Date of March 19, 2012, designed to pay off ALL Creditors with some di minimus shares coming to Tranche Six which is Preferred Equity Interests and Common Equity Interests. This included an OWNERSHIP CHANGE which gave the former WaMu Estate to those investors who signed timely releases by 3/2012 in my view
3) The following is from Amended POR 7 signed by the court on 2/23/2012
set forth in the Confirmation Order, the members of the Trust Advisory Board hereby designate William C. Kosturos in connection with the applicable provisions of the Delaware Statutory Trust Act, 12 Del. C. § 3801 et seq.
4) NOW FORGET WMILT which was canceled on 12/31/2021
5) Remember, A DST CANNOT BE OPENED unless there are assets so what do you have left with the aforementioned facts...The answer is a DST that is funded with assets and to who do those assets belong. In my view those investors who signed timely releases
6) I have always said a DST will play a vital role in our eventual distributions and I think this post proves that but does NOT prove when or how much other than I will say a multitude of tens of billions.
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Ok, so in the short term, there is a reason that I will not discuss for this to move forward by the end of June 2023. If what I know is accurate, then we will see this by the end of June but at this point, I will say no more other than hope this will be correct.
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stox, you said and ask the following:
LG, All this is Fine..BUT why are we not seeing any "F&R" recoveries for our P, K, &Q holdings, the markers of which have been now taken out of our Accounts? Why was Rosie so intent on getting them 'removed'?...All this points to a BIG Heist of all our "F&R"s promised by BK, MW & JD & the AAOC Hedge Fund Cartel..
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If you understand how some of these very, very few super-rich billionaires think then this takes a new meaning. These kinds of people can never have or make enough, they MUST have it all and then will try to figure a way to make more.
They always say family is number one in their life then everything else falls into line but according to their actions, this is not true rather the following is ACCURATE according to THEIR ACTIONS!
1) Making money...there is NEVER ENOUGH
2) Legally avoiding and/or controlling taxes
3) Family and so on as you get the picture
Stox, now to answer your question. I believe the holdup is waiting on another tax-free windfall as Lehmans has 60B in NOLs which means they could make another 60B over the next ten years and NEVER pay a dime in taxes!
I believe Lehmans is the holdup and we must wait on them to move forward as I believe the Big Money Players want to incorporate Lehmans into OUR ultimate plan before moving forward. I hear Lehmans is close to the end BUT I do not follow nor do I know the details of Lehman's case.
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BBANBOB, you said the following:
WHAT EXACTLY WERE DA BOYZZZ DOING BUYING ON KNOWN POSITIVE INFORMATION or were they selling on known negative information They were buying hand over fist and were even forced to sell on the open market some 800,000 K prefrds
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Great call-out BBANBOB! Now can ANYONE, ANYONE BUELLER answer the question of why would these HEDGEFUND BILLIONAIRES buy worthless and hopeless distressed debt equities UNLESS one believes the HEDGEFUND BILLIONAIRES were taking a fast track to become MILLIONAIRES...WHAT YOU SAY BUELLER?
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Goodie, you are EXACTLY CORRECT and Amended POR7 was signed by the court on 2/23/2012.
If information one is looking for is NOT found in Amended POR7, then it is not a legal part of this POR PERIOD!
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BBANBOB, you said, the following.
ALL ANY HERE SHOULD WANT IS THE TRUTH even ifin it hurts
This is EXACTLY CORRECT and thank you for repeating
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BBANBOB, the following (DSTs yes, plural) probably played the most important role in our eventual returns but many want to ignore this as it does not fit with their investment choices and/or agenda.
The following is from Amended POR 7 signed by the court on 2/23/2012
set forth in the Confirmation Order, the members of the Trust Advisory Board hereby designate William C. Kosturos in connection with the applicable provisions of the Delaware Statutory Trust Act, 12 Del. C. § 3801 et seq.
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Goodie, your summation is exactly what transpired but unfortunately for some THE REAL FACTS as you correctly point out do not fit the agenda!
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Newflow, you posted the following: Thanks for sharing, and now look at what BP, Tako posted on BP and I have placed under your post below.
ARTICLE XXX
IDENTIFICATION OF CLAIMS AND EQUITY
INTERESTS IMPAIRED AND NOT IMPAIRED BY THE PLAN
30.1 Impaired and Unimpaired Classes: Claims in Classes 1, 4, and 7 are not impaired under the Plan. Claims and Equity Interests in Classes 2, 3, 5, 6, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 12A and 13 through 22 are impaired under the Plan.
https://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/933136/000090951812000087/jg02-2712_8ke21.htm
FROM BP Tako: Thanks Tako for sharing. You sure are a numbers Dude!
In my opinion there is no need to the escrows any more
We received 200m shares of WMIH at 2012 turned to be 17m shares of COOP after split that’s including 5% went to creditors
If COOP real value is $1000/share then we legacy shareholders and the creditors receive 17b recovery
Underwriters receive 7.2b plus (no wonder they vigorously fought for it)
Why COOP real value should reach $1000 ?
The answer is ..COOP should own 17.5% of the net worth of the company which is 5.25b (including treasury stock) out of the found value of 30b
That 30b grew to 411b as of 12/31/2022
The max value COOP stock should reach from the holding company assets is $125/share and in my opinion the rest should be realized from XOME’s assets after merging it’s assets with the holding company
Ironically IHUB just discovered and started lately to question the ENCUMBERED assets which we had more than 2 years discussing it on BP
By the way the brake down of COOP’s assets including NSM reported at 12/31/2022 as follow
ENCUMBERED assets =327.4b
UNENCUMBERED assets = 83.6b ..AIMHO
Good luck to all ..Tako
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Great research inswsami and thanks for sharing.
Wow oh wow let us hope inswami is correct.
The aforementioned thoughts from inswami to me is the main reason for delays which MAY, MAY mean MO MONEY
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newflow, very interesting which brings up another interesting point. That is WMILT was canceled on 12/31/2021 which means the trust was NOT dissolved which would have been the total end.
Some of your research showed that means there is more going on which meant, mergers, combinations, distributions, and more.
The problem is they do not have to file anything for us to see what ultimately happened but one of the aforementioned did happen and we are still waiting to see those results which should come in the form of mergers, combinations, distributions, or other.
I suggest WMI is still alive (WMI DST?) and will buy out COOP and POSSIBLY take them private but not totally necessary so hopefully, something happens very soon.
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Ron when you post anything to try and prove your case you MUST use Amended POR 7 signed by the court on 2/23/2012 and do not obfuscate with any previous PORs. However you refuse to do this by cherry-picking items from previous PORs that were denied by the court.
Yes, most of us fully understand some items from previous PORs made it into Amended POR 7 but when you try and make your case YOU MUST use Amended POR 7 and show in the huge document where items are located that proves your case or just move on.
CHEERS...all here will do just fine provided they have timely signed-releases.
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ron, hopefully, we will all soon find out how a DST and CSC TRUST COMPANY OF DELAWARE plays a vital role in our eventual distributions. Many here want to ignore the following.
I suggest you do more work on the Ownership Change that happened on 3/19/2012 resulting in the transfer of the former WaMu Estate to those investors who signed timely releases by March of the year 2012.
However, there is one very important fact that MOST of us agree on that has done any significant research and have timely-signed releases and that is there will be very large monies that get distributed at some point.
***LET EACH SECTION OF THE FOLLOWING SINK-IN***
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From Amended POR 7 signed by the court on 2/23/2012
• set forth in the Confirmation Order, the members of the Trust Advisory Board hereby designate William C. Kosturos in connection with the applicable provisions of the Delaware Statutory Trust Act, 12 Del. C. § 3801 et seq.
http://www.kccllc.net/documents/8817600/8817600120507000000000001.pdf
WMI LIQUIDATING TRUST AGREEMENT WMI LIQUIDATING TRUST AGREEMENT, dated as of March 5, 2012 (this “Trust Agreement”), is by and among Washington Mutual, Inc. (“WMI”) and WMI Investment Corp. (“WMI Investment” and, together with WMI, the “Debtors”), as debtors and debtors-in-possession, William C. Kosturos, as liquidating trustee (together with any successor or additional trustee appointed under the terms hereof, the “Liquidating Trustee”), and CSC Trust Company of Delaware as the Delaware resident trustee (together with any successor Delaware resident trustee appointed under the terms hereof, the “Resident Trustee” and collectively with the Liquidating Trustee, the “Trustees”) of the WMI Liquidating Trust (the “Liquidating Trust”).
WASHINGTON MUTUAL, INC. By: /s/ Charles Edward Smith Name: Charles Edward Smith Title: Executive Vice President & General Counsel WMI INVESTMENT CORP. By: /s/ Charles Edward Smith Name: Charles Edward Smith Title: Executive Vice President & General Counsel WILLIAM C. KOSTUROS By: /s/ William C. Kosturos Name: William C. Kosturos CSC TRUST COMPANY OF DELAWARE, not in its individual capacity, but solely as Resident Trustee By: /s/ Alan R. Halpern Name: Alan R. Halpern Title: Vice President
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Ron, here are some facts.
1) Technically former preferred & common prospectuses were still alive until the (ED) Effective Date of 3/19/2012 then canceled on the ED of 3/19/2012. An Ownership Change happened on 3/19/2012 altering the former WaMu Estate ownership to those who signed timely releases by March of the year 2012 nullifying all former preferred and common prospectuses
2) If you want to believe in the 4.6 par for former preferred, this goes against what Judge Walrath stated in court, "shouldn't I be concerned with someone getting more than they should", so your 4.6 par on preferred goes against what she stated which would not happen
3) If there were monies set aside for preferred then on August 01, 2012, some four-plus months after the ED, an 8K filing was filed discussing Preferred Equity Interests and Common Equity interests would have never been filed to address the message board and other concerns regarding the 75/25. Further, if you want to claim this was done this way to ensure all received monies if not enough then the 8K would have reflected this stating something like once preferred reach Face Value ALL remaining monies go to class 22 however no language exists
4) Judge Walrath was concerned with investors getting more than they should so there is no way the Judge would have allowed the former preferred to get more than Face Value which was $1,000.00 per WAMPQ
5) August 01, 2012, 8K would have never been needed however since it was filed if class 22 was supposed to get the remaining estate/monies, the 8K filing would NOT have been written to show Preferred Equity Interests get 75% and Common Equity Interests get 25%
6) Ron, this case is simple, whatever remains will be returned 75/25 but at any rate, there should be huge amounts distributed at some point so no point in discussing details that we will never get correct in their entirety UNLESS you are AZC who claims he was already paid...now this is really funny
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Some keep ignoring the fact that all preferred and common prospectuses were cancelled along with ALL associated documents by the court on 3/19/2012
How can there be two sets up prospectuses which would mean dual ownership when there was an ownership change signed by the court on 3/19/2012?
Then an 8K filed later on 8/1/2012 showing 75/25 with 75% of every dollar going to preferred equity interests and 25% going to common equity interests
Ron been eating to many dumb pills again…
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Let’s go with box cars and close this mess. I expect to see the distribution on Friday!
What you say?
Fred, where are you getting this potentially great news? Is it credible and reliable on the most part?
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newflow...sounds promising but no way to tell until we see filings or funds deposited into our accounts.
Let us hope there is a connection between this filing and those investors who signed timely releases by 3/2012.
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GOODIE, yes, this is what Royal Dude sent...thanks
Thanks RD. As big as JPM is, very hard to say what they are using the investor funds for and they always use boilerplate language to disguise their real intent.
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