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need a similar pop!!!!
significant work underway in caselton, nevada
pg thanx - looks like there is pretty historical data right here on IHUB- click the charts data and then select historical.
yep price been higher and price been lower - looks like stock price is lower than where it was on the first day, without a doubt. But potential is there as the licensees get the products to the market and the license revenues start coming in!!!!
oh - yep, if EPS ws the 0.0012/share - a guess at a share valuation might be 10 and would get a smart investor to 0.012.share.
FDaddy
what was the first trading date for Cyclone under this symbol and harry's involment??? On the SACA site, harry announced on July 3, 2007, that trading had begun. IHUB historical data shows high $2.05 on that day, and bigcharts has 0.25 close that day. does that match your data, thanx!!!
done - thru the SACA posts and saw only limited even refernces to effcy - 12% on WHE - maybe enough data to get a consistent set to plot on a Mollier and see what likely efficiencies might be - will do that this Pm
you are right site is extensive (but limited real data that could support any of the speculations), did have interesting photos - feedpump appears to be piston pump, yep and can get very high pressure in single stage, not efficienctly but can get the pressure, ...
think yip yap about SC is just that, very very unlikley really has sustained SC steam production with on-off, may not matter but is curious that is one of the focused continuing comments - if look at steam expanion on Mollier, quickly see, why the old technology P/T (now abandoned as obsolete, were just as good for single expanion no reaheat - SC makes great sense if reheat in the classic sense, not some kabuki dance dumping steam into the conbustion are, ....
anyway - will do WHE mollier this PM and report back - waiting eagerly on your calcs!!!
nope - tyou posted data and very little here - have you corresponded with these guys on this board (or elsehere) and have gotten any data or anything outside of pontificating crap?
I had asked you who claim to have done the calcs and got fermi's method I took your data (ever changing) and bothered to throw it on a mollier (that Harry can't spell) and effcy looks much lower than the number(s) spouted and spewed - my increasing sense is that no one flipping knows, the expeerts, many on the Saca (Scama - sorry - bit pissy after the waste of time ) board are the advisors and as you stated they get different answers - none of these pontificators have commercial engines - 30 year old cars with flat tires (but it still loks good stated one poster), .....
in spite of all, I do think there is a possibility of a product, the economics is much more important than the effcy - if WHE engine really weighs 18lbs (per harry's posts) and the materials are as described (per harry's posts) and the parts are even similar to those in the photos (and not plastic mockups that the advisors are fawning over), harry and Cyclone could have a design that a real company (yet to be found among the two guys and dog garage apartment office folks who are licensing this stuff) could turn into a product.
I will hand around SACA until get through all the posts and then see if anything can be distilled from the emissions ofthe posters
B-man I am there because you said lots of data.... harry yip yap but you are right not much data about the engine(s).
don't frankly care where the fipping heads are - not material and yep, you are right without data, who knows? always easy to make any ol'crap up and spount and spew facts (factoids???).
tell you what, now that I have wasted my morning, publish your calcs so I can see what you have done, or for that matter, leave out the heat capacity of air and all the stuff and show me your calced fuel flow and power out along with your boiler effcy/looses calc and your engine expanion/enthalpy calc.
B-man
following harry post is great, how do you interpret this???
Re: cyclone engine
Posted by: HLS (IP Logged)
Date: April 9, 2008 04:08PM
I Guys
We are off to the show in Detroit to show some engines. Hope some of you will attend. Tom Kimmel has been there. It is always nice to have steam people around other wise it is lonely. Of course we are always very busy as the intrest in Cyclone is gaining.
Harry
B-man and in true IHUBer form, the SACA apologists answer real questions from Andy with yip-yap, denials and name calling (seen that - good reason not to post on SACA - what is your alias on SACA???)
what a disapppointment -
B-man - my take is yep lots of test engines or parts of test engines - key I think is how many current functional engines - not commercial 9that's ok) but which engine(s) represent an operating fairly complete system in the shop - not pretty like the mockups but what can harry start and run, aannndd, why the flipping not measure fuel and power???? fuel easy, power, he has the genset right? or is that a mockup like I think Arnold believes.
not slamming you, I am following your suggestion and plowing/wading thru the BS on SACA to see what's there and yep, think very very little meat.
reagrds getting on there and asking, maybe - Mr Crank does lots of pontificating (takes one to see one - beat you to it) buttttt, lots of yip yap.
and not complaining about the goofs - dothem myself in the flow of messages but is a problem if you mean no and leave "no" out of the sentence, numbers and units are important.
B-man
another telling comment from harry (see below) what does hard mean?? yep, makes best I can tell soft claims and lots of mis-direction by references to SC power unit effcy's - and this knind of crap is what I do get concerned about - harry is walking edge of deception with investors, this post is after the merger into the shell(??) and he is selling shares (well harry is not, it is Frankie right???). so he is using investors money.
have to really wonder what is real and what is Memorex? patents are in-place (harry reposnded with yip yap when advocate asked him for the patent numbers - do you have them or they still not issued yet, think H said issued but then yip yapped on numbers, ....????
yeah maybe a bit of a complaint - I have burned bunch of time reading these posts - page 18 of 26 complete and lots of yip yap - best I can tell take H's numbers with a grain of salt, none maybe real, they maybe close, they maybe possible, hard to tell,
he also has a quite normal inventor's attention deficit, too many things happening and limited things finishing - yep happens to me but usual result is nothing really gets finished - several posts that 2 cylinder would be commercial by mid 2008 (I if understoood the posts) and ????
Re: cyclone engine
Posted by: HLS (IP Logged)
Date: February 15, 2008 12:46PM
HI Andy,
I have never made any hard efficency claims,no matter how hard I have been proded. We have real runing engines not cartoon ones. I never asked money from any one but built it on my own money until I got varification from thermo experts from F.A.U. I still did not ask for money as my friends voluntered and I have a good reputation. Cartoon engines always work. When you go through 50 different fuel injectors 5 different head designs many pistons and ring designs and materials. A normal test run is about an hour on a daily basis to gather data, mostly all thermal. Progress has been very positive, and were are gaining a lot of data so when more engines are designed we only have to go to our book and no how to do it. I do what I say, and four years ago I laid out a program of what we were doing and it is happening. At the present time this data is private between us and our licencies.
Harry
B-man
the following is a curiously telling exchange - the guy asks real question and harry does not answer - just yip yap - Bill is advocate/friend and harry blows him off with Yip Yap
frankly disapppointing I am thru just over half of the posts and while there is limited data (curiously seem to change post to post - sure R&D but really), lots of yip yap.
Re: cyclone engine
Posted by: Bill Gatlin (IP Logged)
Date: February 12, 2008 03:46PM
Murphy was misquoted. He never really said that.
Harry, is the 23% efficiency total, from the tank to the dyno? I'm assuming you were around at the time, just to see what those Cyclone raskals were doing. LOL
23% sounds about right for starters from what engine thermo parameters I know of. About 30% + engine efficiency with boiler and pumping losses. Tuning should push it up another couple-three percent. How are the Peek rings holding up?
Keep up the great work. Maybe someday, you, I, and Peter will have a car race. Wouldn't that be fun?
Best Regards, ------- Bill G.
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Re: cyclone engine
Posted by: HLS (IP Logged)
Date: February 12, 2008 04:32PM
HI Bill
The rings are working great. Just a peek ring is not the total answer as it is a total system not just one material. Jim Has been of emence help as there is no substute for experence ,and he will not put his name on wild claims. Yes the calculated efficency numbers are higher, however caution must be excerised and only true tested data be published as such, The theroetical is still the theroetical and is used for calculations and goals.
Harry
another SACA comment - guys are sloppy sloppy with units harry and the rest - sometimes catch the goofs, sometimes not - not complaining just an observation, frankly raises questions on what is being stated and what is real - seems best is to see if a poster syas the same thing three or more times, then likely making firm statement, if less then reader beware
another conecrn - Arnold is correct in questioning what is real and what is Memorex - Harry posts pictures and shows engines that are really just mockups. did in one post actually state mockups and then went right back to the yip yap like they were real engines, never said but the responses are not "heh guys, just mockups" but answers that a reader could assume refer to real devices.
another continuing puzzlement, how many real engines - best I can tell (but not absolutely sure) there is a 2 cylinder operating engine - probably in a state of development (that's ok) but that is the only apparently operating engine 2005-2007 right?
thanx - have to ponder this
post number on the valve control - and how does the cyclone manage the variable volume???
I am on page six of the Cyclone thread going one by one - am pasting harry's posts into file and all the pictures - also the other guys' posts if useful
frankly lots of miss-spelled yip yap - I have the same problem - always miss-spell apprecaite first time - I am ine finger typer and I have brian farts and always do a before i and have to correct if I catch it and care enough - gaian not complaint - makes some of the posts hard to understand -
now into hundreds of posts and you are right, no calc onwater rate - frankly when I see something like that, clearly important to the discussion and no data, likely is bull-feathers - sounds in the right range to fellow faithfuls but may not be real - without some calc and data presented, is heresay
B-man - thanx - my interest also is small gensets and drives that can run on waste heat and solar heat - followed Sterling technology but all of those guys just sell vapor devices (nearly non-existant). Did bunch of work with STM, trying to buy a genset - 55kW on nat gas about $50K, frankly they were not selling, pictures of gensets in the shop but really did not want a real customer, they went bankropt, IP sold to European copany who is doing the same crap - fibreglass mocks and no products
Harry puts out factoids that seem to be data but frankly thin on what it means, --- several posts on router spiining blower at 20,000 rpm for a test, then shows electric motor driving a toothed belt to a blower - belt not tensionable (curious) and picture seems to show belt has same diameter pulley on the motor and within the housing - housing/blower drive pulley not shown, but apparent dia of the belt is obvious - not sure common electric motor can run at 20K and also not sure toothed belt as shown could stay intact at that apparent belt spped - not criiticizing but I have to wonder - Arnold claims all the engines are just mockups, while I see machined parts, I have not seen an engine - very curious
B-man - harry (and the others) talk about apparently variable compression - I assumed that the Cyclone is an expansion engine, high pressure steam is admitted to the cylinder and expands pushing the cylinder down, why is this called compression (could be negative compression - but odd terminolgy???).
and then harry talks about variable compression ration 4 to 1 and 26 to one - any idea what is changing in the piston, crank, cylinder that would make this variable volume??? nothing so far on the SACA blog - is just of out of the blue yip yap, and yep being critical harry has lots of yip yap about various pheonom, and just like on IHUB, the faithful post positively, but, harry is quite obtuse - not complaining, he is a ptalker/poster and I do appreciate the numbers.
just not my kind of get to the meat discussions
B-Man-- one of harry's posts at SACA has two photos of a 2cyldr engine - is that a complete operating engine best you can tell??
while looks great from 50,000 feet, the drive belts cannot be tensioned, none of the pulleys are on a swing arm, all fixed - ??????
will keep looking and see if Harry posted data specific to this engine.
joy returms to SYMXville - closed up of Friday, the $9plus investors are cheering, just days until back positive on their investment, big sigh of relief!!!!
B-man - looking at the forum - do you have suggested individual posts that have key data? while I just saw the 7 lb steam rate (no units curiously), is just out of the air, does harry anywhere actually show data/calc or is only source just his statements? seems to be easy to measure, right? - I did look at the WHE oven jegs(curious terminology BTW) and see temp sensors but no feedwater flow or steam flow measurement - if primary performance indicator is steam rate, wouldn't harry have measured the steam flow? (or feedwater flow if all turns into steam?)
what makes 6.5 lb/???? reasonable or unreasonable???
thanx
B-man - up early!!!
just deciding that a steam rate is good or not good is specultaion, does not Harry have published data on any of his engine tests in his many years of steaming????
reheat only, only, only helps effcy if it is what MechE's call a reversible process - if irreversible really is not that helpful to effcy. --- pulling steam at intermediate presssure and reheating, helps - Cyclone does not do that best I can tell.
FW hetaing can be great but needs to be the reversible type -
one indicator of likely efficient process is to see if the cycle extracts as much usefil/available enrgy as possible in the working fluid and converts to what ever the useful form of energy that is desired - example of poor effcy - incandescent light bulb, goal is light but any heat is not useful (usually damging to the environment around the bulb, incandescent bulb is low effcy - LED, highly efficienct in converting energy to light, very little heat
now steam cycle exhausting at atmospheric is less efficient than at a vaccuum. the steam that is exhausted at atmospheric has remaining energy that could have been used to generate power - if just used for air or feedwater heating, is more irreversible -
lets "test" whether atmospheric is better than vaccuum - if atmospheric better than vaccuum, then, is logical that exhausting at 10 psig over atmospheric would be better, right? and then 20 would be beter than 10 and just exhaust the main steam, that would be best of all??? of course not!!!
yes economics are involved - IC engines use atmosperfic because there is no real pressure 'energy" left, steam cycle always (do not beat me uup with always here - I know of no main stream steam cycle where vac is not important - but am not saying that there are no minor cycles, not well known where vac might not be helpful). do better i.e. are more efficent without a vacuum than with a vaccuum,
inventors have been looking at novel configs for years - and the great conspiracy of the "gods of Rakin" always quash the lowly inventor - bull-feathers - look at novel cycles but get you reversible calcs out so you can quickly assess whther a likely path to effcy or dead-end - lots and lots of dead ends.
as I started, economics often drives how much heat recovery you do, pre-heating combustion air with boiler exhaust probably economical to do, preheating combustion air with remaining temp in condenser, bad thermo so probably not economic
attributes on likely efficient steam engine, multi-stage, reheat between stages, vaccuum condensing, pick good inlet steam temp/press to maximize available enthalpy drop.
thanx
just thought here - while I understand that R&D is going on, should not the cyclone investors be getting company reports on the development - posts/blogs on an engine site are a great place for a backyard inventor to chit chat and yip yap - is not good site for CEO of public company to yip yap IMO
no - never stated your values for Enthalpy were wrong - I do not think you ever posted any enthalpies - please check my posts.
if basing a calc on data other than what you have observed and collected - suggest 1) identify source, 2) provide link (3) complete units and where there could be different ways to calc or define outputs of the calc, maybe definitions - example, net efficiency - should identify the boundaries of the system/cycle that you are calc (power output divided by fuel input = effcy - if net then, usually would subtract any driven loads along with any power supplied by outside sources - Harry's air compressor, ...)
from 50,000 feet effcy you need to say whther the calc is net where is based on lower heating value of fuel which is typical for engine guys (and miss-states the effcy cause is based not on the way users buy fuel)
other board is SYMX
looking forward to sources for the data that you are basing on (still strongly suggest pick your fuel) and, this data is again remarkably different from previous
and always suggest putting the calc down in the post
thanx - lets post at other board
i have only seen what anthony stated in the PR regards ENCS and what he filed with the SEC on BOVD.
gracias!
have chevy 350 for the whe test and dyno for the other
not in this cycle - did get CEO responses last year
I tried no response (phone and email), I believe others have tried (same plus contact to Zenergy) no response I think were the posts. I think we got as good a picture as likely will get from company with the 17MMish in revenue and 12% margin as posted in several PR's - i did the math and published likely net income per share but think it all speculation and as we all know, should have doubts on any financial comments in encs prs
B-man sorry had extensive post but when hit send, disappeared, I guess could have been glitch or my internet - anyway message is lost
will try and respond here point by point - and really thanx for the post
need to pick your fuel to do the calc on - bet fuel would be likely fuel for the Cyclone - likely a fuel that is in liquid state in storage, would be likely real fuel for Cyclone - propane???
thanx
B-man had rely, but IHUB glitch killed the post - will redo reply over at other board thanx
gracias - yep had seen a move of several of the "pop a tops"
thanx
way too opinionated to be calm steady Mod - think we are in good hands!!!
contact page has good info right? I appreciate the conferences - likely ones that BioC would have display tables at, maybe even papers on their plant operations experience, new innovations in conversion of bio-crops into the biulding block chemicals, ... lots can be imagined
and why so negative - ENCS managed a real string of PR's and a 20 bagger pop, lots of buzz on the 0.0001 sheets about "goina' do this and goina' do that", but pop happened and some of us made some bucks!!!!!
some of us have offered tech and management help to AW in the past, all offers refused - best we can do now is to make it happen on our very own - if 4 PR's gets a 20 bagger, let's see 4 new PR's --- brand new BioC website (and come on, he is being economical - where is the official ENCS site hosted? prior question repeated but nobody checked from the group of BioC bashers - a quality hosting service, a quality domian provider - he was lucky to get it, and I am thankful that Go-daddy (or whereever he got it) had it!!!!
vent is great - new Ihub site just for BioC - yep fresh today and I set it up, no subterfuge, no games - I am trying to find the coorelation 'tween new stuff happening and a 20 bagger pop!!!
Greg Evans over at IBGT is doing investor relations thru facebook and U-Tube - and the faithful love it! might only be a matter of time before Anthony follows suit.
GreenXX said to keep the volume down yesterday, need him to sya we are ready to go!
not sure what the IHUB language code BS - would violate TOU if more usual utilization and no Clue what Em might be - enquiring minds want to know?
yep - lots of late/after seesion big blocks in almost all of the stocks I watch - Iguess good does not occur during the heat ofthe session and spook the investors?
so MODC is selling treasury shares - so is a good sign that cash is coming into the company!!! If it was just Anthony selling, then the shares would have already been part of the O/S right? so we should be starting to look for a divi payment - $10K divided by the outstanding shares, right????