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I've known for a few months that it is fairly plentiful in PR, but I've not heard anything like that. It would be cool to see proof. If they could show on paper that they are beating all competition, HFBV should eventually skyrocket.
What confirmation? I had confirmation of that in Sept. Not that that did any good. I have an online friend who had seen it there, and the last she told me was that it is more plentiful now. Maybe HFBV should post pics. of the operation in PR. Minimal excitement to get this moving IMO. I mean I was always fairly excited, but I guess some people need a lot more. Profits and building equity should help I guess.
Up 50%. Looks like going for a big run now--Joke. What was that a whole $180.00?
The Dogg?
Oh. I thought you were going to bury something. Usually backhoes are used for digging holes, burying things, and lifting things that eventually come down. Maybe you need a different piece of equipment like a space station that is meant to stay up.
I believe LJ will get involved, but I don't play the low as can go game anymore. RS's are rampant these days. The only thing I like is that 470M is still not that much to RS compared to others I have seen where they have to RS on 1B or more shares. However, an RS w/o other huge news to back it up will kill it IMO. A merger w/ Goya might be good enough too.
That might be big enough if they didn't do some ridiculously huge RS in conjunction w/ it. Even Goya has its price limit. I think Goya is pretty good though. I know Costco sells their products. I'd be nice to go buy HP in just about any Costco. I've never seen Goya beverages in Costco though. Maybe they're fairly maxed out in that dept. I know they do carry a ton of sports drinks/water.
Raising the AS alone should not change the controlling interest. They would have to buy them or sell them I'd think, and they'd have to sell or buy a lot. I'd rather they buy though. That would mean they'd have to keep them to retail full control right? $40K would buy like 20% of this if a person/people could slowly collect at .0002 to .0005. The preferred is included in the OS though, and it is convertible. The convertible it eligible for conversion at 10%/quarter, or is that something else? I guess that is the Restricted that is eligible for conversion at 10%/quarter. I'd probably still bet that they would not sell their restricted shares at .0004 though. I will have to look at the report to see what is tied up in preferred stock.
So did you sell much before we got to 000X's? It was around .000X before we knew of the OS increase right?
How are you sure it is worth that at this moment? Is that why you are still buying, or did you sell higher to buy more now? I might buy more myself, but there is more to consider. I've been burned before on actions other than dilution too. If the AS reduction is so good why didn't they say something? They said nothing of the dilution for several months, and said nothing of the AS reduction. You'd think they'd at lest say something about the AS reduction to bring up something positive. Maybe it is not all that positive. I cannot be sure after past experience.
If it were me, I'd sacrifice what value I have in stock right now to buy the whole stinking co. at .0001. Or at least we could own a voting share at that.
Ya. Some idiot or the MM's decided to offload at .0004 because they did not see any buys at .0005. Mike just happened to be at the right place at the right time. Maybe the MM's are just selling on commission, and they figure they will get what they can. Who knows. Obviously most of us would make nothing selling at .0004. When you don't see immediate, sustained moves on this stock, I think some people just figure it's over too, so they move on. A multitude of possibilities and combinations I guess.
Actually Mike, I would have been better off putting all my $ into a sub distributorship way back when, and if this does nothing, that may still be the case--case of Dogg, you get it? I just thought of that.
What are you trying to accomplish by buying at the ask? Do you think you are going to start a run? Maybe there is a time to buy at the ask, but I'm not seeing it now. Especially when they have an ask at .0005 and then drop it to .0004. They don't want it to run IMO, and I assume they have more resources to keep it from running until a you say something major happens. Major might just have to be huge revs. or some profit because I have seen other good news like business deals do nothing for a long time. I suppose .0005 is still a pretty good price Mike so I don't see a big problem w/ that, but maybe we can take more off the market if we buy lower.
Was that SOON a bit of sarcasm, or do you know something?
I don't think you can tryst the AS just yet. For one thing it does not make sense to make the AS equal to the OS, and another is that there are ways around it. I just want the truth and transparency. Until then, we just don't know. Is that too much to ask for? Not that .0003 is a bad buy. Even w/ an RS .0003 should turn out to be worth quite a bit more, but those who do not have a .0003 average might not be so lucky in the short term. Maybe long term it would be ok, like w/ HANS. Some people in HANS saw over 70% losses, but if they had held, they still be rich. Seems like there is something wrong w/ the way it is at .0003/.0004, but nobody cares to buy back the shares--I mean you'd think that insiders would want them at that. if they know this co. is going to take off. I'd be making sure some insider buying showed up on an Form 4. Holy cow! you can buy 1M shares for $400.00. If there was not going to be more OS increase or some other negative action, I'd be buying back my own co. What would it take to join forces as an entity and buy enough shares to have some voting control here? Couldn't we already have some voting control, or do we have to form a valid co. ourselves first to do that? Just something to ponder.
My posts sounding like a PR had nothing to do w/ him, and other than trying to interject some hope, they were not like PR's. He did not say enough to influence the way in which I said things that much. IR did tell me in July that some big things were coming up, and I assume that was mostly Goya. If that is what you are talking about me sounding like a PR, that is where it came from. It is possible that CR might have mentioned something as well regarding that at one time as well. The other things I had heard are obviously disappointing.
Vote?? Vote for what? I didn't use my position to do anything out of the ordinary other than change the ibox and occasionally erase very few posts that were getting out of hand. You should know that. It's not like I have a bigger voice as an assistant mod either. In some respects, it is better not to be a mod. Let them vote and see if I really give a rip.
CR huh? I have an idea: throw out all the votes who think I'm CR. Do you really think CR has the time to screw around on Ihub all day and learn all the ibox crap, not to mention all the other things? I know you're w/ me on this, but your cronies need to wake up.
Ya Mike. As I said, get the old crap out of the box if you don't like it, or have your assistants do it. I was gone for a while if you did not notice, so I did not do it, and now I can't. I cannot even promise I'll be here every week to update the box.
Well it is when it sounds like I'm getting accused of wanting to add bogus info. If you blame somebody, go to HFBV. One our regular posters had said HFBV told them that the people on their web site were current, or something to that effect. If you want to remove JB, go ahead. As I said, I did not ask for the top mod. spot when I got it, and in all these months other people could have been doing things.
Please just explain yourself a little bit better when it may seen to be accusing me of such things ok? It may not seem much to some on here but I busted my butt for a while trying to get the word out and keep the ibox interesting. Before, I know very little about doing much of anything on the internet, so I had to learn. My effort was my own choice, but it was for the co. and everybody involved. It may have been worthless, but I had good intentions.
Don't do that to me Mike. I was not even questioning what you have in there or do not have in there. You are the top dogg. If you think we do or do not need something there, then fix it or have one of your helpers do so. I was certainly not trying to say that I wanted a spot here so I could post bogus info. in the ibox. However, I think there are some things that could be changed in the ibox whether it be to add or remove. What I really want has nothing to do w/ the mod. pos or the ibox, but I'm not going into detail on that now.
Regards.
P.S. What is Ron Brown doing in the Ibox? I thought I had removed him. Maybe not, but he does not belong there IMO, and I think somebody from HFBV even said that. If it makes any difference to you, fix the thing ok?
I think you would agree that there is a difference between revs. and deficit and revs. and profit. HANS makes a profit. I think that even with less revs than what you are saying we could see more value here if there is a profit, and it would help insure the longevity of the co. On the other hand, high revs and no profit or foreseen profit could mean the obverse. I used to own a co. that had $50M in revs, and were nearly breaking even. At the time last summer they were trading at around .25, but now they are at .05. That was on an OS of about 70M and a float of about 50M shares. There book value at the time was actually around .25 as well because they had a lot of assets. Maybe the market went downhill for them in the last few months, or maybe the stock market just went down as w/ many other co.'s. I think we unfortunately got hit from all sides.
How can they sell anything new though if the OS equals the AS? Does not make sense. Are we now seeing a different game that has more to do with the MM's and shareholders than w/ dilution? I'd like to know. I think we should know. If I were responsible for how stocks and the market work there would be some big changes w/ legal consequences for what goes on. Some of the ring leaders would have a difficult time getting a job flipping burgers after I got through w/ them. Anybody w/ me on that?
Oh. I thought week you or somebody else had said it had been more like 6 days of no T trades. Add another 3 days to get 9 days. Are you saying two full weeks or just 10 days of trading? I cannot see them dropping the AS to equal the OS. For one thing, it gives no buffer in case something were to come up. I don't want to get too speculative, but it seems that there are ways around that issue even w/ equal OS and AS, and I believe that is what I had experienced w/ a couple of co.'s that were much worse than HFBV. Lets just hope they can run it off revs. rather than the alternative.
It did go at least as high as .30 in '96 though.
They could have only legally sold like 20M tops so far. So the OS could equal the AS? doesn't seem right. If they were to RS, they could still keep the same AS right, or is that illegal? I don't know what's going on at all, so I'd like a little clarification on what is going on.
Nobody seems to answer much. Still no answer about the last AH. If we still haven't had one this week, then I suppose it's been about 8 or 9 days. Now if the AS and OS are basically equal, then what were all the AH's since the last share report? Wasn't it 470M? Dead had been religiously counting the AH, and I'm wondering if he or anybody else knows what they add up to since Nov. Did you get the last note I sent you a couple of weeks ago? I really don't need a spot on the mod list. And I never asked for the #1 spot when I had it. As far as I cared #1 was no different from #2. Never asked for the #2 spot when I had it either for that matter. The only thing I really care much about is the ability to update the ibox, and I guess I will just hound you guys about that if I see something. I really don't expect to have as much time as before anyway.
You are correct, and I had said that a few times in the past. He could sell a couple of his high-end cars and buy it for more than this.
Well I don't see it going up too much that fast, but you can't compare apples w/ oranges either. There's a difference between a co. w/ a 1B+ OS trading 100M shares and a co. w/ 500M trading the same. If HFBV has not diluted a whole lot since Nov., we should still be in the 500M range right? That not too bad if it stays there. I'm not going to say that it's worth enough in everybody's eyes to go above .01 any time soon, but it could go a little higher than this I'd think w/ a little more pushing. Somebody w/ real deep pockets could move it more. Will that happen is anybody's guess.
HANS was not at .03 when RR joined them. They actually did an RS back around '88, and they floundered some after that. I think they were more like between .15 and .30 when RR joined them--maybe higher, but I'd bet w/o looking again that they were not at .03, and I don't think they've been at .03 since when they did the RS before 1990.
What can a person do about it though if it were so? Things like that happen all the time IMO. Would the SEC really care about such things as to put off all the bigger fish to deal co.'s like HFBV? If they do, I'd like to know what you do about it, because there is another co. that crewed over investors a lot worse than HFBV, and I'd like to look into the legality of that co.'s actions.
It think that is possible, and .02 would be great, as I had said earlier, as long as it is not done through restructuring/RS. There are good and bad times to RS, and I don't think it is a good time yet.
You're a funny guy motor. Are you trying to tell people here not to sell to see if it holds? For one thing, I doubt that people will hold just to see if it holds. Another thing is that ihubbers are not necessarily the only ones who own stock, so even if ihubbers held, you could still see a drop from a non ihub seller.
They often change the bid and ask in AH. Unless there is some reason for a run tomorrow, you should not have to pay those prices.
What are you talking about $3.50 a share? This will not go above .20 w/o a RS, and the only way it will go to .20 w/ this share structure is if they're getting major sales (like $50M+/ year IMO) and at least breaking even. I know I've mentioned some hyped up figures a long time ago, but never anything above .50 as far as I remember, and that was before they more than doubled the OS. Last spring, w/200M OS, I thought they had a chance to go to .10 and maybe more if they started pumping out business deals. Some deals eventually came, and I'm still pleased, but we have a bigger float, so we have to adjust our predictions. Nobody is going to buy this at 3.50/share. We'd have to be getting millions in profit and 100's of millions in sales to do that. Since it got as low as it has, it will be a while yet before we get back to what it was even in April/May unless you see an act of God IMO. That's not to say that it won't move up or that it cannot recover to those levels. If most of the drop was due to dilution, that is a lot of ground to cover. It would be great if it were due to shorting. It could possibly recover quickly if that were the case, but I think we can be sure that much was not due to that.
Hey at least things are getting interesting right? Seems that people start flipping out after a month of silence, and the recent developments at least adds some new chapters to the HFBV story.
So when was the last AH?
That's right. Good product, but you have to give it some time as you said. As you see, these co.'s don't always trade at their potential until that potential is realized. Once they start getting some huge sales and some profit, we can start saying things like that even in the midst of this screwed up market/economy.
That's a raw deal. W/ that kind of service it should be free.
What do you mean they will not let you? Sounds screwy to me. Who do you use?
If they had started out in the 90's w/ Red Bull, that could have definitely happened. I think it would be possible years down the road if they carve out a market share. That's an if though. A .02 bottom is not a bad goal though. I would hope that everybody is averaged below that by now.
If sources are accurate, they were possibly worth that much, but the economy has changed some. Give them a year to prove it, and I think they could easily be worth that. It's all in the sales--proof is in the pudding ya know.
We could almost buy the co. IMO, but the PPS would probably get much high before we could get a majority. If somebody were to do that they'd probably hit it a little at a time I suppose.
I believe they all could start in Aug. '08, but you're right about the %. I think they can only sell like 10M or so/quarter. Why would that be different for JB? I'm pretty sure he is included w/ the rest of them as far as that goes?
There more than just this incident. I don't think the SEC cares. If they cared MM's would not be getting away with 99% of the crap that they always get away with. Not that I know it is MM's. Point is that it is difficult to get the SEC to do anything IMO. If anybody knows differently, do tell.
What do you mean. Looks like we're going to close even--super high(?)at .0006! That's a lot better than the .0002 dip the other day right?
They're all allowed to sell like 10%/quarter or something like that, and that option was open in August or thereabouts. That doesn't mean they would sell. I'm thinking that RR would have to wait another couple of months to sell his if he has the same conditions to not sell until after a year. Who knows. A lot left to guessing. If they are sticking w/ this, as it appears that they are, I don't know why any of them would sell unless they had figured on buying back lower.