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For reading the experiences of still more investors in TATF go to this forum: http://tropicaltreeinvestmentforum.com/index.php?topic=3.15
If the owner is simply struggling and failing letting investors know would at least relieve him of the suspicion that this is a scam of the first magnitude. In the absence of that the worst is believed.
belmontx
Sherry and I thank God every day for the opportunity to dedicate ourselves to such a fulfilling endeavor, and for all of our wonderful tree owners and all of our dedicated workers who together make all of this possible.
Steve and Sherry Brunner
Reprinted as a direct quote from the TATF website "Our Commitment".
To Toby-s Mom and all the others who trusted and believed in these people, and sent them hard-earned money, my sincere concern and hope that somewhere, sometime there will be justice.
belmontx
TS - I don't think anybody reading this board would doubt that you are one savvy investor, a crack professor, and a leader among men (and graduate students) but it really would lend heft to your arguments about TATF if you could give us a fact or two which would buttress your position other than general statements to the effect that investigators have "found" it to be a complete scam from the beginning. What offices did they work from and what did they do to reach this conclusion? I'm inclined to believe the company is no longer viable and to think otherwise is delusionary but we need reports from the scene.
belmontx
Regarding your comments about the TATF website, an "overhaul" underestimates its phony nature. It not only "lacks key information" but it includes much false information which would be removed by now if this were a genuine business. I know you are patient, mattyo5, but what is your limit?
belmontx
mattyo5 - I think we both have tried to be fair in our posts and as our primary goal have continually sought to obtain more information. We have differed mainly on the degree of malfeasance we think Mr. Brunner has been guilty of; your patience and lingering hope has both exasperated and impressed me. It reflects a kinder view of our fellow man.
This forum has been valuable for several reasons. Your reports concerning your trip to the farms and your other contributions have been important in adding to our knowledge and in favoring civility in our discourse.
But let us not relent in keeping TATF's feet (it must have them) to the fire until we are told what really has happened to this former enterprise and receive some form of redress. -- And see its website cleaned up of all its exaggerated, misleading, and outright false material.
belmontx
How do you explain justcfrall's partial, but significant, refund if this operation was never legit in any way?
Your arguments would be more persuasive if they were not imbued with such unyielding certitude. Is there some anger? some hurt? Were you not more personally involved than you have disclosed?
And why do you psycholanalyze those others who are posting and, however misguided they may or may not be, have different perspectives than your own. No question we are all talking about a betrayal, at the very least, of investors who trusted the owner of TATF. We are only differing in the degree of deceit involved.
(I realize I am opening up my persona to your analysis by asking these questions. But, really, we have enough to complain about without including the psyche's of other posters.)
belmontx
It started legit. It now resembles a heartless scam. A scheme which continues for those innocent buyers who have not found this web address. Compare TATF's website to the reported experience of its investors here.
As to the few small distributions you mentioned. There were two reported here (compared to all others (47) on this forum who reported none). They were many years ago, were received by "investors" who appear to have been friends of Mr. Brunner, and one was in the form of free trees.
Without this board arising three years ago none of us would have any idea we were not the only investors receiving nothing. Calls to their office would result in rosy excuses and hopeful promises that weather, the economy, health. etc. are temporarily delaying distributions. Read the praise from the mythical investors on the website, complete with their initials.
From time to time, the owner periodically appears on this forum through proxies (ab, lawyer from ohio, happy tree owner, etc.) and refutes all criticism until member responses with facts drive him back underground. If he were legit he would have long since by now responded to these reports with truthful information and emails to each of his investors explaining the current status of their trees.
belmontx
Thanks for your assessment. It is not incorrect in my opinion and is similar to what I have believed for a long time.
I think sustained evidence that there is no maintenance activity at these tree farms plus the utter lack of communication to investors from the owner is sufficient to suspect that TATF is a teak scam. The latter condition has been met. We all know that. As to the former, you and others have attested. At one point on this forum a person who lives nearby the TATF farms reported no activity for a long time, rundown appearances, etc.
I have long been confounded by the sanguine attitude about his investment which matty holds. What would convince him to believe its gone? The new information he is looking for is, in fact, continued no information. Faith in our fellow man doesn't apply in this situation, as it didn't with Bernie Madoff's believers.
Is there anyone who can give us recent eyewitness reports from Costa Rica?
belmontx
4Rtrees -Well said, you speak for many us.
Deception and apparent betrayal is what investors in TATF have experienced. It is sickening. Your words account for why I have been posting for almost two years on this forum; our family has been deeply and adversely affected by this scheme.
The company's transformation from what was a plan to make a lot of money while planting and maintaining trees for investors, then marketing their lumber appears to have some time ago morphed into this neglected remnant, with trusting people left with empty hopes and their accounts worth less and less as the seasons pass.
Your assumption that Brunner reads this post is correct I think.
Why does he not answer the entreaties of his investors? Where is the influence of his moral compass? His self-proclaimed religious identity?
All the while the content of his TATF promotional website remains largely unchanged from years ago.
With legal remedies so difficult a solution for offshore investors in Costa Rican companies, speaking out to the world on this forum, and knowing that Steve Brunner is one of its readers, becomes the only way we are able to strike back. I believe it is a significant action, clearly expressing the moral issue between TATF's owner and the people who believed in his plan. In time more a practical resolution will arise.
belmontx
I recently sent a purchase inquiry to Finca Leola and received this response: "We regret to inform you that we have filled up all of our available land and have no plans to buy more property. There have not been enough people able to buy trees during the present economic crisis to make it worth while to continue to plant."
Regards,
Amy Morgan
I think this operation has always been on the up-and-up with its investors -- at least we know it isn't trying to sell more trees on its website in order to raise capital. One assumes it has been keeping its commitments to present investors. If anyone knows otherwise (that they, too, have misled their investors)let us know.
It would seem a stretch to believe that this company's website copied TATF's. I do not see that similarity, nor is the exaggerated hype evident. They never presented the projection tables which were the hook that led most of TATF investors to send money to it, believing that a respectable return on investment would be forthcoming at regular intervals.
belmontx
What kind of actual evidence that "business was happening" did you get during your visit some time ago? Other than talking to the owner what proof did you get that anything was going on (i.e. thinning of other trees, general clearing around plantings, storage, milling, shipping to Raleo)? You mentioned in a post at the time that it looked like they had only visited your trees and done a bit of primping just before your announced arrival. What makes you think at this point that there is any possibility that TATF is a viable business? You seemed somewhat dubious at the time; have you heard anything encouraging since? Have you attempted to contact them, and have they responded with useful information?
We have yet to receive a single piece of tangible and credible evidence on this forum regarding the care and upkeep of investor trees.
belmontx
Anyone reading through the three years of bewildered, disappointed, anguished, and unhappy postings by its investors on this forum would believe that the only stewardship going on at the Tropical American Tree Farms of Costa Rica is of the formidable and dynamic website that Mr. Brunner maintains. There is little sign here that it is of the trees on his land which he has sold to investors during the past 17 years.
belmontx
Snap, we haven't heard from you for quite awhile. You last entries some five months ago indicated that you had more-or-less given up on the prospects for your investment with TATF. Have you discovered any other way than this board to prod Mr. Brunner to release information regarding the state of your trees?
Years after we all expressed frustration nothing seems to have changed. No one has signed on to report getting thinning reports during the past four years, much less distributions. Without this board, like footprints in the sand time will wipe away any protests investors once expressed for return of their investments. There is plenty of evidence that the owner of this company reads this forum regularly. Because of this he knows none of the people who trusted him with their savings are forgetting either him or his false projections for returns. This is a moral burden most people would find uncomfortable to carry over the years.
belmontx
Is anyone still minding the store? We don't even know if the store still exists.
Their website exists in an alternate universe.
Anyone thinking of sending Mr. Brunner any money needs to read this forum first.
belmontx
My motives are to keep the buyer side of the TATF experience visible as a counter to the seller side which is expansively presented on the TATF website.
I reviewed your entry and stand corrected; there is one person on this forum who said that they received a cash distribution (you) -- as compared to the rest who have checked in here. How many years ago was this? It appears that it was in the mid-nineties and that you were and are friends with the owner. We have no evidence of any since then. If there are others I wish they would sign in and provide the details. As it is we have only evidence of disappointed investors who are pretty sure they have been snookered.
belmontx
TATF sales promotion details until last year were a lawyer's delight. The way the owner of these farms set up this plan nobody would know for sure whether it is a scam or not for many decades to come. All his clever offer did was "project" returns at different time intervals -- only inferring promises.
The projections which sold trees to investors cited distributions to investors coming at 7,10,14,etc. years. The fact that this forum has uncovered no credible investor who has ever received any of these (while 37 have logged on who have not), even though as long as 17 years have passed for some of them, doesn't mean they won't -- someday. However, it is obvious that no investor at this point should start holding his breath.
If it snorts like an aardvark, waddles like an aardvark, smells like an aardvark -- you might reasonable assume it's an aardvark. But, of course, that rests on an assumption.
belmontx
Contrary to your dismissal of fawtsc' questions (which you avoided answering), the farm where the teak was planted is very important. Anyone who visits the several TATF farms will find that the health and growth rates of the trees are remarkably different for the locales. Favored and tree owners (family and friends?) likely have trees on the most fertile of the soils and most favorable of terrain and slopes. The quality of the soil and average angle of slope varies considerably from one farm to another.
When one of the investors visiting his trees last year attempted to have soil samples taken on site the TATF employee accompanying him phoned the owner and he was told that he could not.
I think you know this, ab, based on your position with the company.
belmontx
The poster who goes by the handle abnr--- writes so much like the TATF owner that it is no wonder he doesn't want to identify himself. Look for him to duck out of sight again following the challenges you and fawtsc have posted. He has never answered your's or fawtsc's questions. However, accusing the victim of fraud is a reliable mark of identification.
We can only hope that prospective customers of this company will find this forum before they wire their money to Costa Rica.
belmontx
I appreciate the explanation, A1, but am confused by the application of the referenced rule to my post.
In ab's last post (the one I was referring to) he included this: "...TATF/Raleo/TAH is in the business of adding value and NOT SELLING LOGS."
Since none of us knows of any value adding TATF has actually done for investor's investments, and the contracts they purchased did not say this but did indicate that sale of product was part of the deal, that statement would seem to be false and might justify the way I characterized its writer since this kind of thing has appeared in many of his previous posts.
Perhaps in the future when referring to ab's assertions I should use passive verb forms rather than direct declarative.
Bottom line is that investors appear to have been snookered by TATF, and this theme which runs throughout our two and a half year discussion should not be submerged by personal remarks. I will continue to try to stay on target here.
belmontx
A1 -- please explain to your forum why post #2424 was deleted and by whom.
belmontx
This may apply to the credibility of abnr's comments on this forum.
belmontx
Has abnr replied to your offer to sell your trees at cost?
He pretends to fawtsc to be an interested buyer as well as a long-standing investor but his relationship with the owner makes him suspect. So much of what he has said here on this forum is spin for the company and flies in the face of reality. For three years now we have no evidence that Mr. Brunner is still operating TATF under the terms of which he sold trees to investors. There is no verifiable reason for anyone who sent him their money to think that it will be recoverable.
belmontx
Let's say a few years back you ran into a friend of a friend who had a detailed plan to legally make lots of money. It is long term and ecologically friendly: for those who will invest early it will start paying great dividends in seven years, then at regular intervals until about 25 years when a huge payout will occur - ten times your initial investment. He seems to know what he is talking about and he's a lawyer who has done well in real estate, so you give him 5k -- or maybe lots more.
Ten, fifteen years go by and no reports come to you but the guy (who happens to unavailable for direct contact) puts out great general notices and updates, still trying to get more capital. He issues general optimistic internet information and keeps assuring worried investors that the first returns are not far away.
He is still continuing his plan and appears to be trying to increase its scope but nothing tangible has yet emerged for his investors. In the meantime his net worth continues to increase as the property involved in this plan appreciates in value, and the money from new investors continues to flow in.
A scam, or merely an extraordinarily prolonged unsuccessful venture, bungled by incompetence and protected by virtual legal invulnerability? Or has it been the latter, gradually morphing into the former?
None of us on this board seem to know for sure. Most members are pretty sure they wouldn't give this guy any more money, and they would dearly like to be able to sell the investment they have. And, by the way, whatever happened to that friend of ours who knew this guy? His name wasn't ab-nr, was it?
belmontx
What present investors can learn from the first Tree Owner's News in 3 years:
1- TATF no longer thinks it much affects the value of your trees whether they are thinned on schedule or not. (Therefore, don't get upset if you never hear from them about thinning your trees, or distributing proceeds.)
2- "Value added" is a mantra which compensates for all changes of company plans as earlier advertised. Count the number of times the phrase is used. Compare it to fairy dust in a children's story.
3- The TON is indistinquishable from the other promotional text on the TATF website itself. It is, apparently, more for the benefit of prospective investors than present ones. There is absolutely no specific news about tree owners' existing trees, by year and by species -- information this forum has been seeking for three years.
4- Most of the "news" on this issue could have been taken as boilerplate from "Adventures in Franchising Tropical Tree Ownership and Maximizing Sales While Holding Off Restless Past Investors."
belmontx
The July 4 "What's New" on the TATF website -- For sheer arrogance check it out. Excerpts follow (bold fonts mine):
"The reason that we have more to do is that this first group of volume processing equipment is sufficient to process only a part of the new thinnings. To achieve our objectives, we need to continue to expand our capacity until we can process and utilize all of the lumber from a full thinning and harvest schedule as well as the previously thinned young lumber in inventory.
As is not hard to imagine, acquiring, setting up and operating additional new equipment will require significant capital, capital that we had not contemplated in our business plan because all of the value adding, both by Raleo and now the high-volume processes, is much beyond our original commitment to simply mill, dry and market the lumber.
The company net worth is many times the capital required for the expansion of the value-adding capacity, but nearly all is presently invested in company trees, land, and for example the more than $1 million advanced on tree owner’s behalf for the harvest and processing costs for their already thinned but not yet sold or utilized lumber.
Sherry and I are committed to be a blessing to every tree owner. I know that may sound corny but that is our in-our-hearts commitment."
They can put these messages up for the next two decades and they mean nothing. Let's look at how this worked out for all the tree owners who for three years cannot get this duo to answer any of their inquiries about the state of their trees.
If people owe you services, are not performing them and have stopped answering you, you likely have been had.
As duped says, "if it quacks like a duck..."
belmontx
These conjectures imply that the burden is on the luckless investors to figure out why TATF isn't communicating with them anymore, in what form and how liquid is Brunner's financial empire, and to hope that somehow everything will work out.
Any entrepreneur who solicits and receives tens of thousands of dollars from individuals took on a moral burden; he should be forced to refund that money if his plan and promises don't work out. He didn't sell shares of stock; he sold trees and an agreement that he was to maintain and nurture them to harvest intervals along the way. Follow duped's and justcfrall's leads and demand refunds.
belmontx
What you haven't considered is in what current state is the 30-60 million dollars investors sent this company (as fawtsc points out, far less was apparently spent on trees and maintenance), and the increasing value of the large tracts of Costa Rican real estate owned by it (far more than those planted for investors). The resulting net worth may very well approach being equal to the outstanding purchase prices of investors. Costa Rican real estate is not illiquid and it will be increasingly valuable despite the recent worldwide dip.
Just waiting 10-30 or more years while being limited to following the TATF website and its 'what's new' page, offers a very low probability of resulting in any return at all.
I don't stop discussing this scheme just because we no longer owns any trees. Harm was, and continues to be done.
If there was a scintilla of direct and informative communication to investors we might believe differently. But there is not.
belmontx
It seems to me that Brunner's not coming to this table has little to do with the criticism he is getting here. He likely would sign on if he had anything at all to say of any direct and meaningful consequence to his investors; he must know that this would immediately lessen the pressure he has faced from them. Review the efforts on this board that Jan, and, before him, Snap, made to get Steve to talk to groups of investors. He did not indicate cooperation.
That for two long years he has not leaves but one conclusion: he has nothing to offer in defense of board accusations that he and his company may have abdicated their responsibilities towards investors.
Investors would be well advised to follow the action of dupedbysteve whereby he asked his state attorney general to contact Costa Rican investigators concerning TATF website statements and projections and the discrepancy of those with the actual experiences of investors. This appears to have motivated the owner to pay duped a full refund rather than face further intercession by the authorities.
Good advice to forum participants is to exert formal pressure on this
company, Tropical American Tree Farms, to get it to refund original investments.
belmontx
Give it a rest. For your health and for the usefulness of this forum, Mr. Knight. You are destroying this as a useful exchange of ideas. What, truly, is your motivation?
Much of what you have said in this recent post is a misrepresentation, an exaggeration or an outright falsehood. It can't possibly be good for you or this venue for you to labor long over tortured responses to each and every post which even slightly questions one of your ideas. Do you have time for any other activities? You are giving the rest of us way too much power over whatever tranquility and peace-of-mind you might have possessed prior to joining this group.
I agree completely with dupedbysteve in his posts and his responses to you, and I stand behind all of my own.
No offense, Mr. Knight, but it might be good for the rest of us to consider skipping over your entries as we go on the subsequent ones by calmer members. And, to you, I advise that you wait a day after each draft before hitting the send button. Maybe, with the coolness of mind after the interval, your expressions might be changed for the better, or perhaps discarded entirely.
belmontx
Excellent summary of the situation for investors, justcfrall.
You, fawtsc, and others have been our most informative and reliable contributors. I hope dupedbysteve resumes his useful posts. From him investors learned what can happen if they go to authorities.
One of his most recent posts contained this, parentheses mine:
"Actually it was justcfrall who gave me the right means to get out of TATF by his statement of (recommending) seeking legal redress. As we know justcfrall had an agreement from TATF to rebuy his investment that TATF reneged on. I refused to stop my legal means until i had cash in hand.
"David (DavidKnight) You have a propensity to attack anyone who would denegrate TATF even though TATF has shown no willingness to commit to even informing investors in their plantation of the state of any trees. You repeatedly attacked me for harming TATF as I went about getting CR authorities to examine TATF.
"I will let Ihub examine all my writings and i know my writings have been above board, i would say yours are dubious at the best in several instances."
Looking at duped's writings it is hard not to agree that they "have been above board". They have likely inspired many other reader-investors on this board to take action. His participation has been what this board is all about -- aid to victimized investors.
Keep up the good work, justcfrall, fawtsc and dupedbystefe.
belmontx
No more personal shots, please. What you have succeeded in doing with your inane, self-centered and repetitive posts is to deflect the attention of this board from its main issue since its inception -- the questionable viability of investments in TATF and the dwindling existence of any hope for investors See fawtsc' latest post for a return to our roots here.
You may want to continue this diatribe. I will not take part in it. Take your diversionary shots at someone else. Preferably take no more shots at forum contributors and start providing information if you have any.
belmontx
You continue to misquote, exaggerate, and misrepresent everything that I and others have said, i.e. "vast majority" in your last missile. I doubt anyone is taking your posts seriously, anymore, Mr. Knight.
It is pretty obvious that others are not agreeing with you or appreciate what you are doing to this board, a board whose members are trying desperately to get some positive information about a company which is looking more and more like it has taken their money and then gradually abdicated all responsibility to them.
belmontx
If this whole thing looks ridiculous, it is. This is childish in the extreme. Like, ALL IN FAVOR OF DAVIDKNIGHT'S VIEWS PLEASE SIGN ON AND SAY SO. This, in turn, is a call for all those readers who think your position regarding TATF represents their views to speak up and register their vote for davidknight on this forum.
You would make a good political pollster because you know how to fashion a polling question. Maybe now with the next question posed we can see who TATF investors feel better represents them. And if we get few responses that doesn't mean they disagree with the question; it could mean this foolishness isn't worth them taking the time to post.
I think I represent investor sentiment when I say they are not interested in the sputtering and fulminating and anguished self-righteousness of the random (and suspicious) forum member, but their primary concern is the lack of any kind of information coming from the company and the owner they entrusted with their money years ago. All those who disagree with this paragraph pleae sign on and say so!
belmontx
Looking beyond the acrimony recently on this board you have given us not only a clear statement of your view but an accurate summary of what seems to be TATF investor sentiment at this time, bfl, when you said:
"...with no info coming from TATF, other than the false projections that they continue to post on their website, my optimism about this venture has severely waned. I really don't believe that this began as a scam but when projections that everyone, especially TATF, knows are not true continue to be posted to attempt to lure more investors in, it looks more and more like a very big scam everyday."
Thanks for getting back to issues and restoring the level of dialog and decorum previously characteristic of this board. And Happy Father's Day back to you.
belmontx
Staying on argument and off personal attack.
When I look at your recent entries this truly seems more like a cat fight, couched in faux academic language, than the useful discussion which has been featured on this forum for three years. Why? What is going on here, and is it inhibiting the healthy flow of information and opinions from others which we have had in the past?
You question my motives, implying I have no genuine interest or stake in purchases of tree contracts from Mr. Brunner. In turn, I question your persistent arguments in favor of the wisdom of investments in TATF trees. I have been asking what it is that gives you confidence in the face of what to most of us see as a surrender of operations and communications by that company some years back
Suffice to say there are moral issues, as well as financial ones, at stake in my engagement in dialog on this board. You seem to want me to divulge personal and family financial matters so as to satisfy your curiosity about my position on TATF and its operation. It appears that you want names, you want amounts, you want to know legal relationships. These are the demands of someone who is grasping at anything to defend his argument, avoiding the central issue.
Obviously I would not be so engaged for so long if there weren't genuine reasons. When close family members appear to be adversely affected by a marketing scheme a certain moral code supersedes the merely pecuniary. I have persistently questioned the practices and lack of responsiveness of this company. In recent posts I have vigorously put forward the challenge for TATF to break its silence and begin informing individual tree owners of the state of their trees. I continue to participate because I feel that prospective investors in TATF should be able to learn from the experiences of present investors so as to counterbalance the misleading promotions and projections this company puts on its website, including anonymous enthusiastic pitches from "present owners of TATF trees". I think of all the people of modest means who have sent Mr. Brunner large portions of their savings because of the case he made for environmental, family, and moral reasons.
Having read all of the posts on this forum I can confidently repeat to you, Mr. Knight, that I feel that I represent a significant majority of those investors in this company who have discovered this venue.
In this, virtually all the participants in the forum have apparently been in agreement. There are many others who are as exercised as me about this seeming breach of faith and contract with investors. You come along a few months back and, for unknown reasons, and almost alone (belying the tone of your entries), argue for patience, restraint, and encouragement, implying that these are wise investments and others would be smart to join in. We disagree, but you, while continuing to avoid citing your primary motivation to defend TATF have decided to put this on a personal basis.
belmontx
Mr. Knight, avoid personal attack on this board.
To answer your last question regarding lies:
"belmontx wrote (to you):
'Why do you make false accusations of others on this board; then, when called on those lies, do not acknowledge having made them?"
(You asked) "Which lies are those? And which "others' on this board did I make them against? You have written several times I am a liar. I have asked you before to show some evidence. I'm still waiting."
I have written it but once. As an example, Consider your latest. Your post #2017 went beyond opinion and contained two lies about me. I did share in ownership of trees, and I do have at heart the interest of the other tree owners. Please stop lying.
You complain that I ignore your spurious questions yet all the while you have refused to answer my questions directed at the unique (compared to the rest of us) nature of your contact and association with Mr. Brunner and his friends and family. All of us would like to know from whence your confidence about this enterprise springs.
belmontx
Two replies to my last comment!- mind your blood pressure! Your continuous retributive venting will soon result in more total posts than even belmontx. Until you joined this discussion group personal attacks on others had not occurred. Now it seems you, Mr. Knight, are the exception. Most of us -- count them -- are very leery of the silence coming from TATF, and are pointedly critical of them. You are virtually alone in continuing to defend the company and its owner; you do this relentlessly by spouting various versions of the website promotional statements. Why?
When you are disagreed with you engage in vitriol (you seem to be hung up on bladder functions). You sputter and you fulminate, you direct invective. I ask again what is your connection with TATF and with its owner? Why do you make false accusations of others on this board; then, when called on those lies, do not acknowledge having made them? You apparently sit around all day looking at the computer screen and waiting for someone to question one of your pronouncements, then you pounce with personal attack.
No offense, please, Mr. Knight, but my guesses: you either have a personality disorder (can't stand to be corrected, or to be wrong), are chagrined at being the only forum member to have made the mistake of actually buying more TATF trees recently, or, ominously, have an undisclosed association with the owner.
belmontx
Relax, davidknight. Your Cargo Cult mentality seems to limit you to a blind faith in the custodians of your purchases. Your emotions override any intellectual process you might bring to bear whenever you are addressing my posts -- again, I urge you to take a deep breath then think before you type after reading my comments.
It can't be useful to expend so much indignant energy when you could be using it for more positive purposes.
I am very familiar with the TATF contract and marvel at its caveats and legal loopholes. Your belief in its sanctity is astonishing.
And, incidentally, your assumption regarding my past ownership of TATF trees, like so much else, is incorrect. I shared with my family in the purchase of 1100 1997 teak trees and over a thousand other TATF trees of various age and species in 2001. If you were half as knowledgable about the state of TATF investments as you purport to be the forum could benefit from your comments. As it is they tend to be either incorrect or misleading. What, exactly, other than being a TATF apologist, is the agenda for your participation in this forum. None of the investors have individually gotten a single encouraging message from this company in years, yet you remain a stout supporter. What connection gives you such a patronizing posture?
belmontx
Discussing the craigslist ad for teak trees @$18 you say; "the pricing info in the advertisement justcfrall provided was for standing 12 to 14 year old teak trees. The buyer has to pay to cut them down, transport them, mill them, dry them, obtain an export permit, load them, ship them, etc. Realistically, that means the buyer will have to travel to Quepos, Costa Rica, several times and spend considerable time finding and hiring (Spanish speaking) workers and equipment providers to do each of those tasks. Much easier said than done. Drying the milled lumber probably takes half a year or more, so there are probably storage costs associated with that, and potential theft issues if the lumber is drying in Costa Rica while the buyer is in the US or wherever they live."
Your point was that one cannot compare this price with TATF prices. How is it going to be any different for you when you want to convert your TATF trees to cash?
May the faith of the Cargo Cult be realized.
belmontx
For more realistic price information consult the market and ITTO, as mentioned by justcfrall. The ad mentioned is:
http://costarica.en.craigslist.org/mat/1763612271.html
All else, I fear, is puffery from TATF geared towards attracting more investors. Nothing is being communcated directly towards current investors, except for you, ab.
Your last disappearance from our discussions came right after some pointed questions were asked regarding status of tree maintenance. Whenever you resurface it seems to be to resume spinning the website promotions, and after you think we have forgotten about the questions you didn't answer weeks earlier.
Your "typical investor" pose doesn't wash, ab. Better to hunker down again instead of posting obfuscations and drivel. This doesn't make TATF look any more legitimate -- less so, in fact.
belmontx