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Block the spammer who hides the truth
Since 12/1 ten different posters have put up messaages on this board. 124 of the 234 posts through midday on 12/14 have been by the imposter, dupedbysteve. His efforts to drown out the voices of true investors are not working. The other nine posters are unanimous in their experiences with this company -- not receiving tree maintenance reports, not receiving thinning reports, not receiving any kind of communication no matter how many efforts they have made. This forum of TATF investors has revealed the truth about this company and its despoilment of funds trusted to it. There is no reason to think that TATF is going to care for and harvest investors' trees no matter how long they wait, 25,35 or 50 years.
belmontx
Perfect. Jim Bakker is the model for Steve Brunner, you. He went to prison, under the banner of his church, leaving Tammy behind. He solicited donations through his tele-evangerical empire ,used them for his personal indulgences, was caught after years of greed and pig behavior,was convicted of fraud and spent years in prison. Google it up. Let's hope the disciple meets the fate of the master. I would like to talk to some of the people who made Steve, you, rich in real estate. Heaven help the people who trusted Bakker or Brunner with their savings.
belmontx
So you are admitting that money sent to you is a contribution and any return people who think they are investing will get will be in the feeling of helping the environment. Therefore, you are implying, everything you say on your website meant to attract investors is a lie. Your last two posts erase any shred of credibility you may have at one time had.
belmontx
The owner of TATF, Steve Brunner, is posting repeatedly and deceptively on this investor forum.
Read dupedbysteve saying: "I have built up a business and i only hire people who can react properly the way i want them to. They must put everything into being good salespeople and be 100% for the company." quoted verbatim from entry #2385. Anyone who ever doubted that DupedbySteve is Steve now see it carelessly admitted.
Can anyone imagine that an honest, above-board, owner would fake his identity repeatedly to try to nullify the real voices of real investors? And we are supposed to believe his statements about the value of present investments and the future returns from them?
This has all the earmarks (and substance) of a disgusting scam cloaked under the banner of goodness and God.
belmontx
Read posts with care, especially when written by representatives of TATF
belmontx
101 posters, almost all negative and almost all investors.
Your post is a deliberate lie by a person of questionable origin.
There have been 101 people post on this board and almost everyone of them are investors who have been taken in by this scheme and are speaking out against it.
belmontx
I agree completely, bfl, the reference to"an honorable man" would be comic if it weren't tragic to so many families impacted by this scheme. Brunner's lawyerly setup to all of this gave him an escape clauses at every turn, but the issue you raise could be his undoing if enough people agree to action. To trust his word to honor the spirit of the agreement would be folly. He hasn't honored any of the spirit of his agreement as projected investor returns passed the 7,10,12 and now 15 year points. However, he would like present scammed investors to send him more money for maintenance -- a caretaking operation we have no evidence of occurring.
belmontx
Forums reveal that TATF is a swindle in slow motion.
People who post the truth on this forum have no reason to do this except they are either disappointed, angry, or hurt by their apparent loss of funds. No one else would bother to waste their time and energy. But you, on the other hand, who take the identity of a former crushed investor (who got paid off through threat of legal action through the Texas Attorney General's office), post night and day, up to the limit of 15 posts per day, repeating what a good and God-fearing man the owner is. Nobody believes what you say; you discredit even further the scheme that is TATF because you have become the voice of the owner hidden by the username of a former investor.
Anyone visiting this forum will find 70+ betrayed investors, 7 versions of the owner's voice, and you spouting an endless succession of spot phony commercials. Who are they going to believe? You, and the owner who already are being paid by all of the investors money (over 30 million) and are plenty motivated by wanting to hang onto it, while all the other actual investors have nothing to gain by posting except to warn off others from their fate, and to hope that someday justice will return their money to them.
belmontx
From dmredding on the Simple Machines Tropical Tree Investment Forum
"I own 1994 Teak trees and 1995 Cocobolo trees and to this date 7/27/2010 have not received any money whatsoever, however I have gotten the run around and unfulfilled promises by the boatload. Does anyone know what is going on down there, is it possible to get dateline NBC or someone else that might be able to either help or stop what is going on? Is there anyone out there that has received any payback? my trees are 15 and 16 years old now and i've pleaded with them when I had heart surgery, 2-wrist surgeries, and last year broke my back, this investment would have come in at a very important time in our lives but I could get nowhere. I appreciate any help anyone can give me. Thank You!" dmredding@embarqr
Is he lying too? For what purpose? Email him and tell him when he will get his thinnings and returns. TATF is a cruel, heartless scam aimed at trusting and innocent people, all for material gain under religious banners. And you, duped, show all the signs of a hired gun for the chief instigator of this.
belmontx
What an incredible con job you are capable of! You have taken two of your strongest opponents on this board and signed on to the other board with their usernames (mjb and planb) and have them give lying reports of thinning returns from TATF. These brief, emphatic endorsements on The Simple Machines Forum, Tropical American Tree Farms, are identical to the ones you post on this forum.
I know your goal is to so clutter this and the other board with such an avalanche of repetitive lies that the truth will be buried, but eventually the truth wins out every time. Nobody who finds either forum would touch this company with a ten-foot pole.
belmontx
The way Mr. Brunner apparently got around that after he, as sbrunner -- 2/17/07 to 3/20/08 - 64 posts, was asked to pay up as a commercial interest was to be represented in succession as:
2-happiest tree owner; 3/11/08 to 4/09/08 -13 posts
3-ohio lawyer; 4/17/08 - 1 post
4-fjonas; 10/24/08 to 10/27/08 - 13 posts
5-happy tree owner; 5/4/09 to 7/9/09 - 6 posts
6-abnrgrrvn; 7/9/09 to 8/9/10
7-dupedbysteve (since trees refunded) 9/12/10 to present
Notice, except for a few days for the first pseudonym, there was no overlap among these fictional investors. They all employed the same voice, style, and substance. And they were the only posts to be supportive of TATF -- not just supportive but spun as advertisements. No true investor who reads this forum could be fooled by their posts. They all come from one source.
belmontx
Excellent points, bfl.
The poster you are responding to is, of course, spewing propaganda and is clearly working in the interest of this international scheme. You can be sure he is getting something out of it in his attempt to shut down this forum, the one source of truth about TATF.
belmontx
Who is the present dupedbysteve? Everybody is profoundly unhappy and duped was too, until he threatened legal action and got his refund. If anyone else on this board has tried to get a refund let us know what happened.
To repeat, the person who signs on as "dupedbysteve" sang a different song only a few months ago. In earlier postings read below what he was writing in May.
This blogger was writing then what everyone else on this board has been writing for three years. Nothing has changed about TATF since these were written, but dupedbysteve has dramatically changed. What he is writing now is more than suspect, it is deceptive
For perspective I cite some of dupedbysteve's earlier posts:
(These were written by the same person who is now relentlessly praising this company)
#2113 on 5/11/10 -- The 4 points you cite are not the reason(s) i have chosen to remain anonymous. The many emails and unsatisfactory replies from TATF drove me to seek out other investors opinions first.I chose to remain anonymous because at the time i joined this board i had already decided to seek legal action.
What i read hear led me to conclude that no one has any definite knowledge the trees exist.
I therefor initiated legal action myself, and as a current tree holder, I had that right under Texas law. So the texas attorney generals office is at present in contact with CR OIJ and we will see what becomes of that. I promised everyone I would let you know when i get my answer and i will.
In remaining anonymous..
I prevent TATF from being able to use trees that are "show trees" to be represented as mine. I will have no objection to revealing myself in the not too distant future.
dupedbysteve
#2074 on 5/8/10 Belmont tx, it will only end when investors have brought the law down on steve. For the legitimate investors worried about this taking down TATF, you have nothing to lose. You have valueless pieces of paper, like stock certificates in ENRON!
dupedbysteve
#2066 on 5/7/10 -- There is one indisputable fact about the current state of TATF, if facts are all that count in this discussion: no investor is getting any information about his trees, and this is in spite of the alarms that have been sounding for two years on this forum. Don' think for a minute Steve doesn't continue to compulsively read this forum on a daily basis and make his expressions known regularly through vicarious means. The single fact of his not responding to any of his investors in the face of all this negative coverage is called negligence at best and abdication of responsibility at worst. However you cut it his failure for three years now to answer his individual investors puts this investment in the category of failed.
On top of this, there is the second fact that TATF is making no effort that anyone knows about to market any of the thinned lumber from years ago. This is in the face of several posts here from people who have tried to buy lumber from this company.
And for those who think critical posts are trashing the company and affecting the future of their investment this assumes that these posts cut off new investments (probably true) and that new investments are required to get the trees from old investments maintained and marketed so that old investors can get their projected distributions. It further assumes that the previously invested tens of millions of dollars were not sufficient to create a pool for taking care of the trees sold. If that is true, and endless loops of new investors buying newly planted trees throughout Costa Rica will be necessary, how would this be different from a Ponzi scheme? And how will it end?
dupedbysteve
Why do you suppose he changed completely? What inducements or identity change could account for his astounding reversal from betrayed investor to stauch supporter?
belmontx
Another post from dupedbysteve before he joined the scam:
#2113--5/11/10-- "The 4 points you cite are not the reason(s) i have chosen to remain anonymous. The many emails and unsatisfactory replies from TATF drove me to seek out other investors opinions first.I chose to remain anonymous because at the time i joined this board i had already decided to seek legal action.
What i read hear led me to conclude that no one has any definite knowledge the trees exist.
I therefor initiated legal action myself, and as a current tree holder, I had that right under Texas law. So the texas attorney generals office is at present in contact with CR OIJ and we will see what becomes of that. I promised everyone I would let you know when i get my answer and i will.
In remaining anonymous."
I prevent TATF from being able to use trees that are "show trees" to be represented as mine. I will have no objection to revealing myself in the not too distant future.
dupedbysteve
As you can see, he has become the voice of the scam. No matter how many pop-ups and spam he posts on this forum he is to be disregarded.
belmontx
Speaking of reading earlier postings, read below what the blogger known as "dupedbysteve" was writing in May
This blogger was writing then what everyone else on this board has been writing for three years. Nothing has changed about TATF since these were written, but dupedbysteve has dramatically changed. What he is writing now is more than suspect, it is deceptive
For perspective I cite some of dupedbysteve's earlier posts:
(These were written by the same person who is now relentless praising this company)
#2113 on 5/11/10 -- The 4 points you cite are not the reason(s) i have chosen to remain anonymous. The many emails and unsatisfactory replies from TATF drove me to seek out other investors opinions first.I chose to remain anonymous because at the time i joined this board i had already decided to seek legal action.
What i read hear led me to conclude that no one has any definite knowledge the trees exist.
I therefor initiated legal action myself, and as a current tree holder, I had that right under Texas law. So the texas attorney generals office is at present in contact with CR OIJ and we will see what becomes of that. I promised everyone I would let you know when i get my answer and i will.
In remaining anonymous..
I prevent TATF from being able to use trees that are "show trees" to be represented as mine. I will have no objection to revealing myself in the not too distant future.
dupedbysteve
#2074 on 5/8/10 Belmont tx, it will only end when investors have brought the law down on steve. For the legitimate investors worried about this taking down TATF, you have nothing to lose. You have valueless pieces of paper, like stock certificates in ENRON!
dupedbysteve
#2066 on 5/7/10 -- There is one indisputable fact about the current state of TATF, if facts are all that count in this discussion: no investor is getting any information about his trees, and this is in spite of the alarms that have been sounding for two years on this forum. Don' think for a minute Steve doesn't continue to compulsively read this forum on a daily basis and make his expressions known regularly through vicarious means. The single fact of his not responding to any of his investors in the face of all this negative coverage is called negligence at best and abdication of responsibility at worst. However you cut it his failure for three years now to answer his individual investors puts this investment in the category of failed.
On top of this, there is the second fact that TATF is making no effort that anyone knows about to market any of the thinned lumber from years ago. This is in the face of several posts here from people who have tried to buy lumber from this company.
And for those who think critical posts are trashing the company and affecting the future of their investment this assumes that these posts cut off new investments (probably true) and that new investments are required to get the trees from old investments maintained and marketed so that old investors can get their projected distributions. It further assumes that the previously invested tens of millions of dollars were not sufficient to create a pool for taking care of the trees sold. If that is true, and endless loops of new investors buying newly planted trees throughout Costa Rica will be necessary, how would this be different from a Ponzi scheme? And how will it end?
dupedbysteve
Why do you suppose he changed completely? What inducements or identity change could account for his astounding reversal from betrayed investor to stauch supporter?
belmontx
.
TATF is DupedbySteve who is Steve who owns Tropical American Tree Farms. All are the same entity which is a continuing offshore scheme outside the reach of the law which has resulted in 17 years of investor money never heard from again.
The perpetrator keeps posting continuously under his latest pseudonym in order to attempt to discourage victims from being heard. He would have you believe he changed from angry betrayed investor, who got a refund, to fervent believer in this company.
Newcomers should read the earlier posts to see what the extent of this deception is.
Present holders of TATF paper who request a refund get no response from this company, same as when they try to find out what the status of their tree maintenance, trimming, harvesting and marketing is. Only if someone poses as a prospective buyer of trees is a reply from TATF forthcoming.
The conclusions are obvious and inescapable. Look for dupedbysteve to write multiple short replies to this and every other post, declaring how wonderful and blessed by providence are Steve and Sherry Brunner, and how fortunate we all are to have some of our savings in their hands.
belmontx
Now your story is that you were bought off by this company, and this makes you a believer in how honest and healthy is Tropical American Tree Farms, and Steve and Sherry Brunner, owners and good Christian people.
If you are not Brunner you are a person who demanded a refund because your realized you had been defrauded, tnen got it, and now spend your every waking hour sitting at your computer countering with complete TATF spin every post on this forum. How likely is that?
You have added further disrepute to your company, if that is possible.
belmontx
Outright lies are being posted by TATF on this board.
Three years of posting by over 70 TATF investors have shown that no true investor has ever received anything from this scheme. The fact that the same person has been using alternating usernames to make false company endorsements only shows how deceptive and vile this sales scheme has become, and how utterly immoral he is.... and this person cites his Christian association. How profane can he become?
belmontx
This useful forum is being spammed by TATF in the form of this poster who calls himself dupedbysteve . To perpetuate what is obviously a fraud the company is cyber-attacking our exchanges with endless and meaningless one-line responses to authentic entries -- he has made 59 posts in the past 8 days; all promotional nonsense pumping up this shell of an entity called TATF. It is as if he takes a valuable newsletter and relieves himself all over every page of every issue.
This is why I ask the moderator, a1derfullife, to bar this individual.
If anyone has any doubt left about the legitimacy of TATF its resorting to this reprehensible attempt to bury actual information should be the final evidence. The degree of deception possible for a company operating offshore and attracting investment funds is astonishing.
If he isn't blocked by the moderator I suggest we each either block or completely disregard this person's entries and that we continue to post whenever we have something to say. It won't take long for a new visitor to our message board to discover what is going on and skip over the spam.
belmontx
Last time I heard someone say what was duped's reply to you, I quote, "God keep you, I won't think ill of you no matter what you say, i'll pray for you" I was walking by a county jail cell and had ignored the guy who was locked up and who had just tried to hit me up for a ten dollar bill. Scoundrels come in all forms; especially disreputable are those who put God in their gross messages for purposes of material gain and other forms of chicanery. This is entirely consistent with the hypocrisy of the 20 years of the TATF promotion.
belmontx
Thanks A1. Ever since "dupedbysteve" secured his refund his username has been acquired by a company rep, or the owner himself, and false statements have become daily, including the last that posters have written obscene statements about him. Nowhere in almost 3000 posts has anyone done such toward anyone else. You, as moderator, would not have allowed those to go forward.
He, representing the disreputable leadership of TATF, would have it that his dispute with all others here posits God (he and TATF) vs. ignorant philistines, (all the other 70+ individual investors who have never received even a hint of the returns projected by Brunner) instead of an absent and irresponsible owner of a sales company vs. his wounded investors.
History is replete with the devastation wrought by those who used their version of God as justification for oppressing and vanquishing those they choose as foes. It is disgusting that this would be attempted here for such mean and trivial purposes, and for the perpetuation of material gain on such a miniature scale.
belmontx
Skip over that poster's entries in order to regain the original benefits of this site. Duped attempts to crash this forum of investors in TATF with his continuous, repetitive and phony misrepresentations. He shills for TATF and pretends to be a former investor while hiding his actual identity. This is in the interest of preserving the fantasy of this company in order to hold off investor revolt and attract stray and innocent new sales. His goal seems to be to drive away in disgust all communications between investors and their airing of shared concerns.
The truth is this investment has turned into a nightmare for those who sent money to TATF. The postings on this forum during the past three years reveals that no one has received the benefits advertised and there is every indication they never will. Against this comes the constant shilling of Duped meant to bury the evidence.
References to the poster's and the owner's religious beliefs in the context of this blatant tree-selling scheme are particularly obscene.
Belmontx
ALERT: TATF = DUPEDBYSTEVE = TATF = DUPEDBYSTEVE
New forum visitors be aware they are one and the same. He papers over and shouts out in return to every comment in order to drown out the remarks of real investors. The name dupedbysteve has become the same pseudonym approach used earlier as abnrgrvn, happytreeowner happiest tree owner, fjonas before. It is the latest iteration or a master scheme using words alone to achieve maximum return, beginning with an inspired website and perpetuated with a propaganda ministry.
See below for the dates each pseudonym was used:
1-sbrunner; 2/17/07 to 3/20/08 - 64 posts
2-happiest tree owner; 3/11/08 to 4/09/08 -13 posts
3-ohio lawyer; 4/17/08 - 1 post
4-fjonas; 10/24/08 to 10/27/08 - 13 posts
5-happy tree owner; 5/4/09 to 7/9/09 - 6 posts
6-abnrgrrvn; 7/9/09 to 8/9/10
7-dupedbysteve (since trees refunded) 9/12/10 to present
belmontx
Duped contaminates this board with his continuous, repetitive and phony misrepresentations. He shills for TATF and pretends to be a former investor while hiding his identity. He responds to each actual report of investor experience with nonsense meant simply to obfuscate, prevaricate and smother the truth. This is in the interest of preserving the fantasy of this company in order to hold off investor revolt and attract stray and innocent new sales.
He is the child walking into a meeting of people engaged in a discussion and shouting loud taunts whenever someone speaks up.
Anyone who tries respond to him only gives him undeserved credibility.
The truth is this investment has turned into a nightmare for those who sent money to TATF. The postings on this forum during the past three years reveals that no one has received the benefits advertised and there is every indication they never will. Against this comes the constant shilling of Duped meant to bury the evidence.
Belmontx
A1, if one reviews dupedbysteve's first 73 posts, from 4/11/10 to 9/11/10, then compare the last 40 or so which have occurred after a two-month lapse of entries and after he reported receiving a full refund from TATF, it is clear that the author during those two periods are two different people -- one adamantly negative of TATF (apparently a true investor) and the other completely supportive, in the style of the owner's own writing.
Because of this apparently duplicitous behavior would it not be appropriate to ask this person to identify himself or risk being barred from the forum?
belmontx
So Duped is really Steve Brunner. You must have slipped up and signed your real name. More trickery to snow over the big trickery? Why are we not surprised.
This thinning, the last that anyone on this board knows anything about and the last that I believe you did, has resulted mainly in the rotting wood sitting outdoors now for years under tarps which first-hand observers have told us about.
As for Raleo, if you are God-fearing, using this as your justification for all that you have not done should truly send a shiver through you.
It would be good if you dropped the multiple identities used on this board.
belmontx
Thanks to adding to our store of honest investor experience. Your first post on 1/25/10 was one of the most persuasive of any that have appeared on this forum. Anyone considering responding to the TATF website offer of trees for sale needs to read this. I quote it below in its entirety as it encapsulates the TATF investor experience:
Hello to everyone on this board. Also thank you to all who have been doing all of the research that is a benefit to all of us. I have been reading the posts for quite awhile now but I am just now posting for the first time.
I have been a tree owner for almost 15 years now. I too own 1993 teak as well as several species that are as old or almost as old. I know several other owners also. Neither I nor anyone else that I know has received one penny from the investments. I lost faith in this investment quite awhile ago when I realized that Steve and Sherry stopped communicating with tree owners and refused to come down off of their hill when tree owners came to visit the farms. I have been there and the trees are there but I now realize that I would probably get more money from selling the seven trees in my backyard than I will ever get from the trees I supposedly own in Costa Rica. All we have done is pay for Steve and Sherry to become very rich land owners in Costa Rica. Steve and Sherry, especially Sherry, used to express how blessed they were to have all of us in their lives. It's too bad that none of us have been equally blessed by our association with them. I find it very ironic that before I made my first purchase of trees I would receive phone calls at my house from Sherry encouraging me to hurry and make my purchase, please send us money. Now when they owe all us money it is impossible to contact Steve or Sherry personally or to receive even an impersonal new tree owners newsletter.
I realize that all of this might sound very cynical but I believe that my cynicism is very warranted. I believe that Steve and Sherry are crooks and robbers and I am very willing to participate in any endeavour to recover our money and possibly prosecute Steve and Sherry. Would anyone be interested in purchasing a very large add in the Columbus newspaper telling all of Steve and Sherry's friends and family what a scam these "wonderful and world saving" people have perpetrated on all of us?
Again, thank you to everyone who has spent the time and effort doing the research that is on this board. I do not have the time or ability to do the research. Thank you to all. There is power in numbers and the numbers are increasing on a daily basis.
This post is about Tropical American Tree Farms and TATF.
From your latest message it appears nothing has changed for your investment. Every credible investor who has weighed in on this forum has had a similar experience. After the money was sent - often many years ago .. coninued silence from the company.
belmontx
So it seems you are posting here under assorted usernames.
How credible does this make TATF?
belmontx
Credibility zero. Your words on this post are exactly the ones we would expect from the owner of TATF -- who is playing just enough of a delaying game to keep his sales platform alive while expending no resources to care for investor trees. The statement that Costa Rican government officials have investigated TATF and cleared it is a falsehood, as well. And your suggestion that present investors send more money to keep their contract and investment from expiring introduces a whole new dimension to this brazen scheme.
It is regrettable that a single person, or company owner, can sign onto this forum from several ip addresses, use different usernames, and appear multiple times over to agree with TATF website spin. At least, readers realize that those others who post here are real past or present investors who would have no reason to register negative reports other than their actual experiences.
In the meantime these authentic investors are unable to gain any kind of answers from the owner of this company -- only false reports from ghost investors. Readers new to this forum need to read posts far enough back to realize that no credible member is getting returns or communication from TATF and hasn't for years.
belmontx
You said you were truly duped by Steve but now you are an advocate? What changed? You got your money back. I remind the board again of excerpts from just a few of the many attack-TATF posts you put up on this board. Have you been born again through the purifying effects of being able to have TATF return your funds?
These were all written by you and posted on the dates given:
"I think something is wrong here from reading the postings. Sounds like Steve is an operator,some on here are so sorry for steve that their money is with a poor guy who is over his head. " 4/11/2010
"I wonder how any of us will be able to verify our trees were not culled out in the tree stand thinning as undesirable culls(And were actually sold at top price).
And Steve wants us to pay for the thinning?" 4/12/2010
"I think Steve is already in Rio. Over a year to clean out everything". 4/12/2010
"The last thinning was from all our wallets." 4/14/2010
"Well..I spent 45 minutes with the AG office here in texas and they also forwarded a letter of cause to OIJ. Not sure what will come of it. I will black out just the identifying personal info and post the reply here for you all". 4/25/2010
"I can not say details but I am in contact with the CR OIJ which is the US FBI equivalent ." 5/6/2010
"It will only end when investors have brought the law down on steve. For the legitimate investors worried about this taking down TATF, you have nothing to lose. You have valueless pieces of paper" 5/8/3010
These were all written by you and posted on the dates given, and now you are advising others to send TATF more money. This is identical to the smokescreen used by other pretend investors to deflect the genuine voices of true investors.
belmontx
enforcer -- Your mistake was ours, as well. The hope is that this word (65 unhappy people here, none happy), through the forum and beyond, will get to the other hundreds of investors who know nothing of the experience of the others and think they alone are being screwed. Then maybe there will be enough feathers to hit the fan and bring some justice.
belmontx
Thanks, Marc. This is very likely what has happened. Inhabiting an "investors" identity is completely in character for someone who periodically appears on the forum in various disquises, i.e. happiesttreeowner, lawyerfromohio, abnr, and several others. And who won't answer questions from his investors but only pretend to be other investors who are happy.
It suggests the depth of duplicity possible in a scheme like this.
It is lunacy for anyone to keep believing that there is a shred of possibility they will recoup their money in what has become an evil empire (to borrow from W).
belmontx
Confusing investors? Do you really believe that this is why Mr. Brunner doesn't want his tree owners to know about this board?
You have apparently taken over as the resident spokesperson for TATF corporate interests. Ever since its owner left the board two years ago someone periodically comes along to repeat his assurances. You are the latest and the most puzzling.
Since successfully initiating government action against this company you have refused to explain your emphatic change of heart from wounded investor to now being supportive of TATF. You said you got rid of your trees and got a refund; does this make you think everybody else should keep their trees and their money will be okay in Mr. Brunner's hands without their doing the same? Something continues to not smell right here.
As has been said many times on this forum -- if any actual owner comes to this board and posts specific information about the current status of his trees and describes in detail verifiable activities now going on for maintenance of his and other owner's trees by TATF then the scandalized and betrayed expressions of member-investors will begin to change. That has never happened and it speaks volumes about the lack of TATF credibiliy which now exists.
belmontx
Below are entries you, dupedbysteve, posted on this forum earlier this year. You refuse to explain why your change of heart to now being supportive of TATF. Also, you never delivered on your promise below to post the reply you got from your action through government channels. You said you got a refund; does this make you think everybody else's money will be okay in Mr. Brunner's hands? Something doesn't smell quite right here.
These were all written by you and posted on the dates given:
"I think something is wrong here from reading the postings. Sounds like Steve is an operator,some on here are so sorry for steve that their money is with a poor guy who is over his head. " 4/11/2010
"I wonder how any of us will be able to verify our trees were not culled out in the tree stand thinning as undesirable culls(And were actually sold at top price).
And Steve wants us to pay for the thinning?" 4/12/2010
"I think Steve is already in Rio. Over a year to clean out everything". 4/12/2010
"The last thinning was from all our wallets." 4/14/2010
"Well..I spent 45 minutes with the AG office here in texas and they also forwarded a letter of cause to OIJ. Not sure what will come of it. I will black out just the identifying personal info and post the reply here for you all". 4/25/2010
"I can not say details but I am in contact with the CR OIJ which is the US FBI
equivalent ." 5/6/2010
"Ok steve(AKA David Knight), You came out of the woodwork to prevent serious actions from CR OIJ fraud investigations. Whether or not you deliberately set out to,and regardless of any disclaimer,something stinking is in the CR forest. I can see after all the time justcfrall was looking for a buyer, immediately after he wrote on here he had contacted CR OIJ, you show up counseling patience and offering to buy his trees". 5/9/2010
"Belmont tx, it will only end when investors have brought the law down on steve. For the legitimate investors worried about this taking down TATF, you have nothing to lose. You have valueless pieces of paper" 5/8/3010
end of entries by dupedbysteve, the tone of his recent entries has become quite opposite and are now eerily similar to ab's during his brief but spirited tenure on the forum,
belmontx
Duped , are you an unbiased member of this forum? What you have been advising this board would be, I imagine, exactly what Mr. Brunner, the owner would say. Stay patient, returns will come, just later than was expected. This is what he told individual investors for years and what he posted on this board years ago. His future keeps getting postponed. And he surely, like you, would suggest that he be sent more money to keep the operation going and the investments "viable"
What you steadfastly do not answer is why you have changed your tone so markedly. You are the only one on this board who has received any money from TATF for many years (except for justcfrall who reported getting part of a promised refund before payments were halted with no reason given). Interestingly, you are also the only one who is suggesting likely returns later on and sympathy for the lot of TATF. 2600 potentially satisfied investors who we just haven't heard from? Don't you think one of them, after reading these posts, would report to us their returns, or their specific positive information? We have not heard from any of them except a couple of old friends or relatives from many years ago. The ones who haven't posted are the ones who don't know this site exists.
Apparently you aren't going to divulge to this board what, if not money, caused your striking and abrupt change of heart about TATF, DupedBySteve. Maybe what TeakScam posts is only a little bit of an exaggeration by comparison.
And fawtsc and mattyo5, this dead horse is still very much alive and in business, as Duped's posts show.
belmontx
If you had read previous posts you would know that my family formerly owned a large quantity of TATF trees. My direct experience with this company has gone back more than a few years.
Your posts have run the gamut from severely negative (consider your username) to apologetic to TATF's situation, without explaining what kind of information you have been receiving from TATF since you succeeded in getting them to refund your investment (after apparently getting the Texas Attorney General involved).
All relevant information and opinion is important to this board -- from any and all sources. I continue to be concerned about potential innocent investors who only know what they read on the TATF website.
What is the nature of your "private messages from a source indicated as TATF"? Are you sworn to secrecy? Did you sign a pledge in order to get refunded? If so, what, if any, is your moral obligation to others who read these posts?
belmontx
I agree, justcfrall. Your perspective as a previous owner has been invaluable to this board. It should not be restricted. Anyone who has an interest in commenting on, or providing information relative to, schemes like this should be able to. The proposal to limit participation is misguided, to say the least.
These posts serve as warnings to those innocent investors who may be tempted to send their money to such "companies",
belmontx
Justcfrall asked if you now are going to buy back your buy backs. Good question. You haven't explained why you have suddenly become an apologist for TATF after being dupedbysteve for 70 posts. Whatever specific information changed your mind so decisively would be important for other investors to know. And now you are recommending those investors send this company more money and not necessarily expect anything when their trees become 25 years old!
You inferred several months ago that you obtained a buy-back from TATF after going through the Texas Attorney General. You posted on June 25 that "The continued maintenance of a website spiel on the tree thinnings and payments never received by investors by TATF" was the argument that the "Texas AG used in his brief sent to the CR investigators". This apparently was powerful enough to cause Mr. Brunner to send you your refund and quash the investigation.
Have you changed your mind on this enterprise since getting your money back? What accounts for you now supporting patience and further investment by present investors?
Until now the board has been awash in reports from disappointed and betrayed investors who have not received any positive specific information about their investments. Nothing otherwise has come from credible sources. You would be the first if you tell us what you learned that makes you now think this whole thing is okay and worth further investment.
belmontx
Please share with investors what those particulars are; especially if you are no longer "Duped By Steve". Did the promised check finally get wired?
I think everyone on this board would like to get specific and verifiable information about the state of their trees and of this operation. If you have new knowledge which accounts for your complete reversal of judgement about TATF please share it.
belmontx
How does this post (and your previous one the same day) relate to all of your previous 70 posts which were strongly and consistently negative of TATF investments? What new information changed your mind 180 degrees? Did someone remind you of a non-disclosure clause related to your forced refund?
belmontx