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We always knew you were special Sewer. What makes a particular UGSI shareholder "special"?
Now now Sewer, give Andy a break. He has been working hard for you and all of us. He deserves to be able to sit on his deck overlooking the Pacific with a glass of a top drawer French wine and fine cigar.
((Sorry, I couldn't help myself.))
Nope, didn't receive it. Anyone know what that means - not receiving it?
I don't know. Its possible the company needed the cash to satisfy debt or cash flow issues, but also possible that management came to the conclusion that the fusible pipe line was not going to provide the bump longer term they had once thought and decided this was a good time to exit that business and focus on other lines.
I believe the jury is still out whether this was, or will be, a good move. I happen to like the other lines they are in, but I suspect those need a lot of growth to make much money.
Nope, don't know "yellowstone".
I tend to agree. Andy didn't just fall off the turnip truck, and neither did his lieutenants.
After the sale of the pipe line, I am taking a deep breathe and giving management a few months to surprise me - in a good way. I believe that, somehow, some way, will happen.
While I, and I suspect most of us, bought UGSI in the first place was because of its fusible pipe business, what we don't know is whether that business could ever sustain UGSI in terms of growth of the product. I don't know the answer to that question, but my point is their sale of that line may not have been a bad thing.
But as far as where we are today with UGSI, there are too many questions - or unknowns - for us "outsider" investors to be able to get a grasp on what UGSI is today, and might be tomorrow, in terms of business lines, possible revenues, profits, etc.
The devil of course is in the details, and hopefully we will obtain those details soon. I am not making any decisions until I gain a better understanding of those details.
But that's just one persons view.
If only the pipe business was sold, I assume the result is UGSI as a company continues (less presumably a large part of its revenue base), but with $80M more cash in the bank.
Those of us who follow and invest in UGSI know (or believe) in the company and its future. I continue to believe the company has not been discovered by those who invest in such companies.
Mark Smith promoted the company but maybe too aggressively. While I don't fault Andy for NOT doing what Smith did, I do sometimes wonder if a little more "selling" of the company might be in order.
Just a thought.
I have to guess those of us on this board look at UGSI alike in some ways, and differently in others. For what its worth, the reason I have invested quite a bit of money in this company over the last ten plus years is primarily because of its potential. That is, its sales potential. Of course, sales without profits isn't worth much, and we don't know what the company's profits are (or aren't), so I am shooting in the dark on that point.
But I continue to believe in its products. We need sales and execution. I have no doubt management wants to cash in on this company and a stock offering WILL happen. It's just when.
Fred, I believe I take a little different view of the Riverwood deal. That deal would never have been done if not for the approval of the UGSI Board of Directors. So, if that deal was (or ends up being) a bad deal for UGSI, I believe UGSI management, and not Riverwood, should be viewed as those responsible.
As to whether the Riverwood deal should have been done, since we little guys know virtually nothing about the company's finances, market position, project forecasts, profits and losses, etc., I don't believe any of us outsiders can say for sure whether the deal was something that was a business necessity at the time of the deal.
What I do know, is that the deal further diluted mine and your stock value. But, I believe no one at UGSI really cares about the healthy amount of equity investment money us outsiders pumped into the company over these many years. Money that likely allowed this company (Mark Smith) to get up and running.
Look, I fully realized then and realize now, the risk related to investing in pennies - and private pennies at that. I've made a lot of money on them, and lost a lot of money on them. We don't know why management hasn't yet taken the company public, but I have to assume they haven't because of either 1) they have no intention of EVER taking it public, or 2) they believe it hasn't reached the point because of failure to reach chosen goals, that investors will have enough confidence in the company to find its public stock attractive enough to buy.
So Andy, which is it? Or is there a #3, or #4, or ???
Sounds like another positive report, but what is the net profit/loss numbers for each operating group Andy?
Fred, who knows if we are trending into a lower price area, but I doubt not.
Can't say my track history in predicting the price movement of UGSI has been good, but I believe at these prices there is a greater likelihood of the price moving up than down further.
I have or know nothing to support that, so its just an opinion.
Fred, the only way I could say anything with any shred of substance would be I got a peek at UGSI's financials. And it doesn't look like that is going to happen anytime soon.
But, while I have mostly been wrong in the past on what the stock price might do in the future, I wouldn't be surprised if we jumped up a little at any time. No particular reason for saying that. You just never know when someone (a well-heeled individual investor) might come by who sees the apparent value in this company and plunks down some real dough.
We shall see…………..
Shooter, thanks for your comments and insights.
I am one of those who has held UGSI for a while. You are correct that we private investors (not the Riverwoods of the world) have invested in this company on a song and a prayer. We have had no choice but to invest basically blindly, as financials are not available to us, whereas I am sure the companies books were gladly opened to Riverwood. So, Riverwood has quite an edge on us little guys.
Right or wrong, I viewed Riverwoods investment as a clue that they (Riverwood) saw something positive in UGSI or they would not have invested the amount they did. Granted, with Riverwood holding the preferred shares (and for the terms they acquired those shares) they have - all things being equal - a much stronger safety net than us common share holders. Additionally, we don't know other enticements UGSi management might have extended to Riverwood for that investment.
All that said, my investments in UGSI have been on my view of the potential value of their products and services (from a revenue-producing viewpoint). As others on this board appear to believe, and only time will tell if it is correct, the current management (or at least those we know or can find history on) appears to be quite capable of making this company a winner. While I agree with your comment that todays numbers must be compared against a baseline to mean anything, if one is to believe the quarterly reports, progress is nonetheless being made in project bookings. Whether those projects end up being successful, both in performance and in profits, is a different matter. I guess Riverwood knows the answers to that, but we must continue to read between the lines and glean what we can from what Andy feeds us.
I've invested too much in this company to bail now, but if I see any sign of stagnation in business activity (yes, how would I know that ?) I will not hesitate to put my money elsewhere. For those of us who invest in such startups, and I've invested in BDC's for a long time, as well as biotech startups, it can be a wild ride, and oftentimes painful. But that's the nature of the beast with such companies.
Anyway, I haven't said much of anything of value here, but do want to thank you for talking in more definitive terms about UGSI than what posters like me usually contribute - which isn't much (no offense intended to my fellow posters).
Fred, I believe Rand Paul either is already or will end up in the pockets of big business interests. The common Joe investors only chance of getting a fair shake in the world of investing with the big boys is the influence of a handful of regulators or lawmakers such as Elizabeth Warren.
I suspect that suggestion will bring some laughs from some of those on this board, but what we do know is that those lawmakers in the past who have drank the big corporation coolaid have done nothing for smaller investors. The vast vast majority of them have succumbed to cash hidden in envelopes passed in the night.
Those who run corporations fear only one thing - prison time. And with the exception I believe of one low level stooge, no one served time for the financial collapse that was fraught with fraud by the biggest of the big corporations.
Sorry to get on my high horse, but investors, and particularly smaller investors, have the odds against them in the world of investing.
Sounds like a shareholder revolt is brewing………….
Do the four or five of us regulars on this board hold enough shares to bring UGSI management to its knees?
LOL
Fred, I am sure no one at UGSI is listening to us on this board.
I am a believer that stockholders need to convey their opinions (whether they be kudos or frustrations) directly to company management. No, they may (and likely will) ignore any negative comments, but they have at least heard from their shareholders.
Fred, it's my opinion UGSI is where it is for the following reasons:
1) it's a penny stock. Most investors aren't going to touch it. We who do are risk takers.
2) the inability of investors to obtain and evaluate the financials kills it.
With that said, I still believe there are a lot of investors (like us) who would invest in the company if they knew it existed. Getting stocks in the radar of investors is no different than promoting a new toothpaste. Manufacturers have to get it on the retail shelf. I believe it's no different with a company like UGSI. Investors with some bit of vision, and an appetite for a little risk in their portfolios, will throw some money at it.
I read Seeking Alpha a lot. Contributing writers write pieces on various investment vehicles. Some (maybe a lot) are pumping the investments write about and support. But one thing is for sure- recommendations on that site move stocks. I've often thought a piece on UGSI would help get the company some well-deserved recognition. But those pieces require - as they should - financials to allow the writers analysis.
I have for some time, and still do, believe UGSI is a growing company, that appears to be gaining market share in its PVC pipe applications, and maybe in its other business lines. But investors need its financials. Until that happens, I believe we will likely remain in this penny environment.
Fred that trade was me. I intended to enter 2,000,000. I need to be more careful.
Even with this long journey I continue to believe this company has "legs" and is moving in the right direction from best I can tell. As I noted, what would give me more comfort is understanding the source and levels of the company's revenues.
But - we all have our limits. Let me ask it like this - will you still be invested in UGSI 10 years from now if it hasn't gone public and you sitting in the same situation as a "blind" investor as you are today ??
Fred, after sitting on a pretty large investment in UGSI for over 10 years, I have to admit my patience is wearing thin. I cannot envision I will wait much longer (and surely not 5-7 years) for positive signs to emerge from this company.
I have no problem cutting and running when it is time. There are other fish in the sea…….
Fred,
Only Andy and UGSI's Board know what tomorrow will bring us dedicated investors who have invested a lot of time and money (that could have went elsewhere) in this company.
Such is the pitfall of investing in a private company traded OTC. Investors in a true private company, in many cases that is closely held, usually are much more aware of the company's plans, successes and failures. With that said, it is my personal opinion management can - if it chooses - disclose much more information than it does and has in regards to future plans and company financials. My biggest aggravation over the ten plus years I've held UGSI is not understanding the source and levels of company revenues and profits.
Without such information we OTC investors are shooting in the dark.
Me too Sewer. I would love to be able to buy at 04, but .08 isn't bad and I am now sitting on a ton of shares. Some may call me stupid for that, but that shows my confidence in the company, I believe.
I don't invest in many penny stocks, but there are plenty to choose from if that suits your fancy. But I do have a friend who buys a lot of unproven biotech's, most of which also sell for pennies. The hope of course is that they develop some magic potion that sells a zillion prescriptions. Every time I think about his biotech investing, I consider a comparison of investing in UGSI. Penny stocks both, but at least UGSI has some successful products and from what I glean continues to build its product lines and has purchasers for those products.
Yep, we've given UGSI a lot of time to reward us, but good things come to those with patience.
UGSI will not be able to pay Riverwood the cumulative dividend when due, and Riverwood won't be able to convert their preferred shares into UGSI common, if UGSI doesn't 1) remain a viable business and 2) doesn't generate the required profits.
Going back to what I've said in earlier posts, Riverwood must be pretty confident UGSI will be able to accomplish both of those goals, or it would not have invested a healthy amount of money into UGSI.
I continue to believe in UGSI. The question remains of how management will grow the company, what its profits will be and when will management take it public (unless someone doesn't buy ii first).
Regardless of the details of what Riverwood achieved by its investment, the fact remains that it invested $45M dollars of investor money into UGSI. I take that as a vote of confidence in UGSI management and the future of the company in terms of its ability to generate profits.
I have to assume Riverwood Capital, or any other investment company for that matter, would not invest $45M in UGSI if it believed it was a bad investment.
No doubt the sale of a ton of shares at .04 is interesting. I don't have a clue about who sold them and who bought them, but I am jealous that someone was able to pick them up at that price. I suspect in the end all or most of those shares found their way back into UGSI as treasury holdings.
I don't see it as anything to lose sleep over. I only care about whether the company appears to be making solid progress - that is, building operating segments that should provide nice revenue in the future, and sound management that captures a large part of those revenues as profits.
Sorry, but I just don't believe that. If someone can give me a valid reason WHY management might do that, then I might be persuaded, but I don't know what that would be.
And if management did want to sell some at .04, I wish they had called me.
Don't know if you are right Sewer, but I bought a bunch of it, and am glad to have it.
I try to not over-think this company, but rather hold my shares, and buy more at these prices.
Well, with the trading volumes continuing to climb, and most of the trades being fairly large blocks, I am changing my tune and now suspect the sellers aren't small fish.
Comments or opinions?
"consideration" should have been "consolidation".
Well, an interesting day so far.
I suspect we have a few smaller shareholders bailing out, with the result to be more consideration of the outstanding shares into even less investors. If so, who knows if that will end up being good or bad, but I bought a bunch today at these prices and hope to buy more in the low .13's.
Well, we just hit .17 with 72K shares traded at that price, and then quickly went to .18 on 10K shares. Might not mean much over time, but better up than down.
M_A_D, with UGSI's price history it takes a lot of intuition. We have all sat here for close to 10 years and pulled our hair out debating why UGSi stock hasn't taken off. Positive news after positive news, and nothing to show for it. And we've seen it perk up and then crater back down to .13.
So, call it intuition, or call it wishing thinking, but I am still holding on. UGSI's story is what many investors in startups - like me - dream about. I've let about $300K sit in this company for over 10 years. And, I still like my odds.
But do your own DD.
I'm not usually this brave (or naive), but I'm going to go out on a limb and make a prognostication on our dear UGSI.
Something tells me (no, not based on any discussions with any insiders - as I am just as uninformed as the rest of you about what is really happening with this company) that we are about to see some upward price movement on this stock. I have no idea why its been happening, but we've had some trading (albeit small, but at least more than usual), and the latest shareholder letter is overall positive, I believe.
My intuition tells me we've languished for far too long in this .13 to .16 range, and whether it deserves to move higher or not - it will. Maybe not a lot, but I am thinking low to mid .20's.
If this happens, you can buy me a beer, and if it doesn't you can rub my nose in it, and remind me every now and then how stupid I am.
But when it is trading at $3.00 you can call me a genius.
PS - Again, I know no more about this company than anyone else on this Board. Do your own DD.
Obama, thanks for posting. A good report in my opinion. No, it didn't move the market, but as we all know the market hasn't found this company.
I'm not going anywhere. Still believe in UGSI and will continue to accumulate shares at what I believe are cheap prices.
Happy trading.
We are all allowed our personal opinions about what we want this board to be. All I want to hear is data and opinions about UGSI and its business operations.
I do not want to hear personal attacks towards other posters. With a couple exceptions here and there, this board has been the best group of posters I've seen on the internet.
PLEASE - lets keep things civil here, and focus on making some gold on UGSI.
Intended to add that I believe you are correct Fred about the lack of shares available to trade. I'm holding more of UGSI that I probably should be and have not sold a single share over the last 11 or so years - only purchased more on dips.
With that said, I believe we would see some sellers come into the market if the price gets above .20 or so just to end their frustration of the price stagnation. But I believe the smart money will hold their shares and possibly buy more below .25 or so. I agree UGSI just hasn't been discovered, and I am not giving up on it.
But do your own DD.