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You're right, something is fishy. I tried to transfer my IRA account from Zecco to TDAmeritrade last week because of Penson and they wouldn't do it. A broker from TDA told me "the committee" rejected the transfer; thought there were too many risk factors.
Didn't make sense to me. It's my money. The risk is mine and it doesn't change because I change brokers.
Too bad for TDAmeritrade.
Ummm...this addresses my original question how?
Original question:
“Just by eyeballing it, I think we are much closer to comprehensive placement in major USA retailers (i.e. profitability) than we are to exhausting our authorized share limit.
Pessimists, what can you factually provide to prove me wrong?”
I stand by all of my posts going back to 2007.
The decline in share price as shown in your linked chart, viewed as a single factor, can counsel against certain types of investing/trading strategies. In certain decision models, it may alter ones buy/sell timing or be enough to discourage one from participating altogether.
It can also be seen as a dormant period in the growth of corporate value while back channel development takes place. This is a basic difference between “technical” trading and following a “story stock” where one evaluates and acts upon perceived longer term prospects and potential.
One has to weigh many factors in the balance. It appears from the chart that ~40% of the authorization has taken about 5 years to issue, leaving us roughly 7 years remaining (BTW, longer than I want to wait for the Promised Land :).
I’m not arguing the validity of one method over another, but in my original post I was stating the case for the company story as I understand it.
That said, I would also like the share price to rise sooner rather than later.
Best to all.
Consider the burn rate on authorized common shares (How many years it has taken to issue ~40% of our share authorization) to start up the company and execute the business plan. At that rate, how long would it take to issue the remaining ~60%?
On the other hand, how far has this carried us towards retail saturation of the North American market? More simply, how far have we progressed?
Just by eyeballing it, I think we are much closer to comprehensive placement in major USA retailers (i.e. profitability) than we are to exhausting our authorized share limit.
Pessimists, what can you factually provide to prove me wrong?
"they are just about 2/3 thru the A/S..."
Since when does ~2.1Million/5 Million = two thirds?
If you are going to spend so much effort trying to destroy this company, at least get help from someone who is not challenged by basic arithmetic.
Is there still an active website or 800# for the $19.95 pkg with the quart bottle, 4 oz., packets and spray bottle?
We just had our stair well done with a decorative finish and the painter is just crazy about Winning Colors (with good reason).
Thanks,
Jim
I think you missed the boat on the Walmart CA delisting.
Here is a repost of #146551:
Some people don’t get it.
The delisting of Winning Colors by Walmart Canada is more about Walmart than it is about Winning Brands. We got caught up in a larger corporate decision to scale down the paint departments. The product itself was doing well with good sales growth prospects.
I live in Michigan in an area that doesn’t currently have any retailers carrying Winning Colors, but I noticed the local Walmart super store downsized the paint department about the time Walmart Canada delisted Winning Colors.
It looks to me like a paint department is not a good fit in their retail business model. From a customer service standpoint, it is way too high maintenance. You have to spend too much time mixing paint, sampling, providing technical support, and emotionally supporting the aesthetic choices of people who really don’t know what they want, etc.
Walmart simply does not make that level of investment in their products or their customers. This scenario is much better suited to Sherwin-Williams, O’Leary, and local full service hardware stores.
Walmart wants to put out some display floor models of something and hope that customers take one home in a box and do their own assembly, or “consume mass quantities” of whatever. No muss, no fuss, never needs ironing. Not an indictment of Walmart, just an observation.
I wouldn’t surprised one day to see Winning Colors show up in Walmart USA’s household cleaners section after WB (along with other big boxes and buying clubs) have done the heavy lifting of introducing the product to a wider consumer base in the U.S.
Good point.
If I recall, Walmart was also trying to reduce their listings (brand choices) not too long ago, and their decision may have been a part of that policy change also.
Bigger companies resisted that and negotiated for continued listings, but obviously WB isn't running with the big dogs just yet.
My main contention was that WC wasn't delisted for any shortcomings of product performance, lagging sales, or WB ineptitude.
These are opinions that inform my investment decision.
Some people don’t get it.
The delisting of Winning Colors by Walmart Canada is more about Walmart than it is about Winning Brands. We got caught up in a larger corporate decision to scale down the paint departments. The product itself was doing well with good sales growth prospects.
I live in Michigan in an area that doesn’t currently have any retailers carrying Winning Colors, but I noticed the local Walmart super store downsized the paint department about the time Walmart Canada delisted Winning Colors.
It looks to me like a paint department is not a good fit in their retail business model. From a customer service standpoint, it is way too high maintenance. You have to spend too much time mixing paint, sampling, providing technical support, and emotionally supporting the aesthetic choices of people who really don’t know what they want, etc.
Walmart simply does not make that level of investment in their products or their customers. This scenario is much better suited to Sherwin-Williams, O’Leary, and local full service hardware stores.
Walmart wants to put out some display floor models of something and hope that customers take one home in a box and do their own assembly, or “consume mass quantities” of whatever. No muss, no fuss, never needs ironing. Not an indictment of Walmart, just an observation.
I wouldn’t surprised one day to see Winning Colors show up in Walmart USA’s household cleaners section after WB with other big boxes and buying clubs have done the heavy lifting of introducing the product to a wider consumer base in the U.S.
I agree with the idea that "1000+" is a better name for the product. It gives it universal brand identity in all markets and it is a great lead in to the discussion of its value.
When I show people what it does they are impressed, but the name doesn't quite seem to take hold the way it should. "1000+" is easier to say (at least in English) and the "+" implies a positive more than meets the eye quality, sort of a built-in promotion.
I have it on good authority that those were buys...
At the ask :)
Maybe we need to put together one of these for Winning Colors:
http://www.bloggingwv.com/45-uses-for-wd-40/
I'm thinking Winning Colors can actually do some of these things too.
Patients demand: 'Give us our damned data'
Today on CNN.com:
http://www.cnn.com/2010/HEALTH/01/14/medical.records/index.html?hpt=Sbin
...but the difference between .0035-.0039 based on a million shares is a lousy $400.00...
I dunno, his math looks pretty good to me.
$990,255 Could we please calculate up our losses ?
Please post your unvested money and sum it up in answer of this post...thanks !
1.Holter -95k$
2._bbb_ -11k$ (around 8k€)
3._bbb_'s two friends -2k$ (around 1.5k€)
4.dav1234 -15k$
5.kyle -10k$
6.JimsZ -4.8k$
7.plan4you -35k$
8. German_Trader -11k$ (around 7.8k€)
9. 0815ax -3.5k$
10.ferryman -10k
11.crooked33 -80k (uncle)
12.penny_in_dime_out -28k$
13.thomas_83 -22k$ (around 16000€)
14.mobrown -16k$
15.olmec - 4.5k$ (around 3.200€)
16.Sangamon Kid -25k$
17.Cpt Snoop -70k$
18.plotzenhotz (ariva.de) -9.4k$
19.kyle's friends -60k$
20.Bagholder34 -20k€ = 30 k$
21.Coop2z -47k$....
22.geoiguy1 -40k$
23.frankiboy & friends -69k$
24.Antwon Predoc -2.5k$
25.PennyNK -1.2k$
26.firebag1 -87K$
27.ajuna -9,5k$ (around 7k€)
28.ldogger -30k$
29.Palmer032 - $20k
30.Lochute -$40k
31.Hunch -2k$
32.iPickWinners -1k$
33.chunky-g -25k$
34.Tommer06 -10k$
35. dr no -3k$
36. Oldestboy -61,154$
The Lowes logo has been on the WNBD website for about a couple of months now. If Winning Brands had no right to place it there as a sales outlet, or make the claim with a reasonably detailed memo to a PUBLIC forum by the CEO, I'm sure we would have had a fairly menacing 'cease and desist' correspondence from the Lowes legal beagles by now. Don't you think?
BTW, my Red Wings will kick your Broad Street Bullys' A$$ anyday.
Kilz and Winning Colors -
Kilz is (or was) a shellac based paint, rather than oil or latex based. Shellac is a common sealer/finish in wood working that's made from bug spit and is a USDA-approved food stuff. They use it to coat M&Ms. "Melts in your mouth, not in your hand."
The solvent for shellac is alcohol, for painting and finishing purposes usually denatured alcohol (grain alcohol tainted with methanol). This is so it can be sold in hardware stores etc. with out a spirit tax.
Grain alcohol or ethanol, found in beer, wine, and spirits, is cheaper/easier to manufacture than methanol and will do the job on shellac just as well.I know folks (woodworking hobbyists) who use Everclear to make their own shellac finish from dry flakes. Different alcohols have different evaporation rates.
Getting a snootful of Kilz fumes in a confined space will make you woozy. There is the added hazard of methanol, which is poisonous and can cause blindess, among other things.
On topic - Haven't tested it personally, but Winning Colors should work as well on Kilz as it does on other paints.
Happy painting/stain removing.
Go WNBD!
Well, I guess he asked for it:
"If anylong knows better, please respond, ON TOPIC...."
Yo Sparky-
If you know as much about investing and finance as you do about geography, you better go back to school. Surefil is nowhere near Northern Michigan. I live in "Northern Michigan" and have to drive over 500 miles south to get to Grand Rapids, at least a full day's drive. From GR to Findlay OH is less than 3 1/2 hrs by freeway. Can you say 'same-day service'? Ideal for an initial roll out, don't you think? Makes perfect sense to me. From there on, it's one regional warehouse after another from sea to shining sea.
Sounds like you went to the Grima Wormtongue School of Financial Counseling. I've never run across a gift for calumny that approaches yours. Eric doesn't want the likes of you messing with his company any more than I want you messing with my investment. I think his email nailed you, fff and crash right between the eyes: "I say this because within the forum environments, the short sellers, flippers and their proxy tend to drag things down by using assumptions to build their house of cards of reasoning. The assumptions about all the bad things that management will do add up nicely in this house of cards to create a compelling tower of fear; all the while it is just a loosely assembled lean-to of possibilities designed to look ominous."
I'm opening the Lagavulin for this one. Twelve years old when I bought it five years ago! Congrats to all longs!!!!!!! Slainte.
Here you are 'beam:
Name Hirshfield's
Address 3640 Mall Dr. Hwy 93
Eau Claire, WI 54701
Phone 715-835-9914
Country United States
Distance ?
A little too far for me. The closest for me is Thunder Bay, ON (across the lake ~90 mi. as the crow flies) or Soo Canada.
Eric replies to email -
Yesterday I posted some remarks about the prospects for Winning Brands and today I passed them along to Eric Lehner to let him and the crew at WB know that I support their efforts. He sent me this reply which he has permitted me to share with the forum.
Dear Mr. XXXXXXX,
It is terrific of you to share your thoughts below. In view of the effort you have made to set out the logic of your thinking, allow me to put some of the already publicly disclosed details into context for you so that you see just how sound your overall assessment is.
For one thing, you mention in your post below that you find the company methodical. This is an insightful observation. There are many "big ideas" out there which do not come to fruition because the conversion of an idea into action is a different activity than merely being creative.
Successful conversion means keeping accurate records, following up with details, preparing presentations, organizing the movement of information and material, forecasting production capacity requirements, acquiring raw materials with sufficient foresight to avoid bottlenecks, developing intellectual property, having personnel policies that are sensible, being realistic about legal matters, acquiring suitable insurance coverage, planning internal information technology for future requirements, and more.
These are the "back office" activities that do not come to mind as readily as visible sales action, but such basic competence is the foundation for growth. Your company is staffed by mature, realistic, experienced people who come to work with a job in mind and apply themselves in an orderly manner for the purpose of achieving specific outcomes. Some of the speculative “bubble bursting” that happens in junior public companies, and many young enterprises regardless of their ownership structure, arises from things happening chaotically.
For example, the commencement of our work with Wings & Ink in-store service group is easily underestimated in its impact. However we have already seen the effect of having orderly site visitation and in-store merchandising audits become an internal policy. It helps our office marketing group to assess measurable metrics and it keeps our products top-of-mind within the retail partner team. In the early days, these are expensive processes but the investment in the quality of our processes is also a way of reducing the costs of error and wasted opportunity.
Not everyone has an appetite for this methodical approach. It’s easy to cut corners when it comes to such back office details, but over the long run it will be an important factor that makes the company attractive to professional valuators because it will mean that the sales and profit figures will be statistically projectable, and reliable.
You also refer to the business plan. Our business model is in my opinion a very efficient way of building shareholder value long term because we are increasing the recognition and value of our trademarks.
An alternative business model that is applied by some firms at our stage of development is to license their intellectual property for the use of others in the promotion of their own brands or for private label production. The drawback of licensing one’s core technology on an exclusive basis is that this effectively converts the licensor to a subsidiary of the licensee’s enterprise.
In other words, the responsibility and accountability for the management of growth possibilities is thus transferred to the licensee leaving the licensor dependent upon the licensee. It’s basically the outsourcing of management. Trying to have a licensee improve their efforts on your behalf is like trying to push a string; it is always difficult, and not very effective.
Winning Brands by comparison would like its proprietary formulations to become highly visible brands and develop a consumer following based on initiatives that Winning Brands can take every day of the year. Whenever a possibility presents itself, we can act on it because the shareholders through their management own the brand names by which the public recognizes the products.
Where would Coca Cola be today if it were not for their trademark? There are many beverages available in the supermarket that compete with Coke, and are even comparable to Coke in all material respects, but there is only one Coke by name. That name is the single most important asset of their organization. Coca Cola marketing is continuously designed to describe a special relationship between the consumer and that product. That is the power of a name and a brand.
There are many other examples of careful thinking that Winning Brands is applying to gradually and deliberately growing its presence in its chosen sectors. These are not highly visible at the moment, but high visibility is better for advertising than competitive strategy discussions. It is not in the competitive interests of the company to be overly talkative about its specific tactics.
The management and staff of your company are investing the next several years of their lives to achieve massive distribution of a select array of key branded consumable products and to manufacture those consumables efficiently so that a portion of every bottle purchased by consumers accumulate by the millions for the benefit of the owners of Winning Brands. This will allow Winning Brands’ increasingly visible trademarks to attract a premium valuation for the firm in due course with their emerging commercial significance.
It’s not complicated, but it is hard work. Ultimately, it can have exactly the outcome that you are envisioning. Thank you for your confidence that this work is to your liking and that you feel the direction is correct.
Sincerely,
Eric Lehner, CEO
WinningBrands.ca
Refer to post #57816.
WNBD on the verge...
There have been a lot of posts recently from longs, traders and bashers alike that are some variation of “Are we there yet? Are we there yet?…”
I want a comfortable retirement (soon) as much as the next guy, but I thought about what got us here and what appears to be our likely outcome both near and long term. I am satisfied that this company is my best opportunity for financial security, in spite of the speculative nature of pink sheet investments.
Winning Brands has a well conceived business plan and has been deliberate and methodical about putting their pieces in place and executing their overall strategy. The key players and long time employees are vested in the long-term success of the company.
The sequence of steps from acquisition, to production capability, to distribution network, to major retail presence are sensible and have sustainable benefit. By contracting with Surefil for production, volume increases (even massive ones) do not adversely affect unit cost or disrupt operations.
Clever and innovative marketing partnerships like the NASCAR promotion will likely pay big sales dividends. In the near term, Winning Colors and Kind Laundry Detergent and Fabric Softener will spring board the company into a nationally and internationally recognized brand. With the brand established, the dry cleaning market may not be too far in the future, with cosmetics and personal care products to follow.
I am long because I think I understand what the company is trying to do, and I think they will be successful. By midsummer, everyone could sell and lock in their profits, but I think at the risk of missing a much greater opportunity.
In my opinion Winning Brands has all the hallmarks of a small company that will be very big in the not-too-distant future.
Here is an excerpt from an article I ran across on the Motley Fool website
The One Stock You Must Buy, by Tim Hanson
http://www.fool.com/investing/small-cap/2009/01/18/the-one-stock-you-must-buy.aspx
“...So the question is: Does that one stock you must buy exist? Of course it does. But can you find it? That's a different matter.
Here, however, is a litmus test to gauge every stock tip you come across. Simply ask: Does this company bear any resemblance at all to Microsoft, Wal-Mart, Adobe, and Dell before they were big names?
That's not to say that one stock will be a discount retailer or a tech superstar. Rather, Microsoft, Wal-Mart, Adobe, and Dell all share a set of remarkable traits that characterized them when their remarkable stock market runs began. All were:
1. Small.
2. Led by a dedicated founder.
3. Fiscally conservative.
4. Profiting from a wide market opportunity.
…This article was first published on Oct. 19, 2006.”
Best of fortune to all.
Jim
"Ask Eric whatever happened to..."
Ask him yourself and post his reply like all the other good faith posters do.
Didn't Warren Buffett say something about how efficient the market is at separating impatient people from their money? ;^)
*QVC*
Does anyone remember when we are supposed to be on QVC? I seem to remember sometime in August, but I can't find the memo.
Thanks
When I was young, Mom bought us clothes that we could grow into. I also think we have a share structure that we will grow into. It has to do with pragmatic planning and having your expectations waiting for you when you arrive. Senior staff has also been hired with the same philosophy. They know how to function at a much higher level and know how to get there.
I am especially pleased to hear that Surefil picked us instead of the other way around. Kind of kicks the bashers in the shorts, doesn't it - you know who you are ;^).
Who knew? (We did.)
Any day now...
Calm before the (buying) storm. Batten down the hatches.
Yes, the "Library" is still here. A fine brewpub and restaurant. A good day to stay home and make money. Go WNBD!
A balmy 0 deggrees F after a bitter weekend below zero with blizzard conditions in Houghton/Hancock MI.
I am usually suspicious of tax abatement schemes by local government because I have seen them get burned too many times. Opportunists take the tax breaks, then move on.
I am more than inclined to make an exception in this case. I don't think Surefil is going anywhere. The logistics are pretty much ideal.
The Kentwood industrial park is in a good location just off the I-96 freeway next to Gerald Ford International Airport. Grand Rapids is less than three hours from Detroit and Chicago. Also most Canada's transcontinental traffic goes through Michigan. I-80/90 is America's crossroads outside of Chicago
Does increasing their production by 85 million units more than double their capacity? I think WNBD may have something to do with that.
No WAGs on pps increase here, but I'm optimistic.
In the Western UP, -8 (wind chill -37), 11:15 am EST
A lot of postings about perc and our 'Wet Cleaning' product.
It seems to me that there is way too much belly aching from some quarters (not here) about environmentalists and 'tree huggers' calling for less pollution, and end to global warming, lower emissions etc.
I recall the first emission regulations for automobiles proposed by Washington back in the day, and the Big Three howled like stuck pigs (like they are still doing today). The American auto industry spent their time money and energy on lobbying efforts to resist the changes. They then had to put several add-on devices on their engines to meet the new standards, sacrificing mileage and engine performance. Honda spent their marbles on engineering and met the regulations with ease, no add-ons, improved mileage and HP.
It's not a socio-political issue. It's an engineering problem. Put the hay where the sheep can eat it and get the job done!
Winning Brands has figured that out. They are putting their R&D and marketing where the consumer dollars want to flow.
Go WNBD!!!
Hello Everyone,
First post, been lurking awhile. Jumped in around New Year's at double zeros for a few mil. It's been an exciting ride so far.
As a long term investor, I've made this one of the cornerstones of my IRA. Based on what I've read about Winning Brands in the Ibox and their website, I expect to retire early.
When I moved my IRA from the company SEP IRA to a discount broker back around Labor Day I went through the alphabet of PKs and OTCBBs from A to Z, making some short term gains and losses along the way. A lot of good ideas that won't pan out, a lot of unrealistic schemes ('sheep farms on the moon'), and a lot of just plain scams. While I was studying WNBD on my short list, I ran across IHub. I believe found a company that is going to go the distance.
This last week made the Mrs. nervous, but I explained to her that it had nothing to do with the way the company conducts its business. What appeared to be a free fall in share price was really a guided tour by the MMs. When the surge in share price ran out of steam at .049, the MMs walked it down until they triggered the stop limits of the day and swing traders and then the panic of the unwashed began. I can't day trade very effectively at my job so I probably missed out on a $20-30,000 opportunity. On the other hand, if I get too cute with this, I could lose it all.
WNBD has one of the best growth strategies and set of long term objectives that I have seen. Many companies get off to a good start, don't know how to grow, and then fail. These folks have a sound premise with eco-friendly cleaning products, a great long-term (ten year) business plan, and a complete play book of tactical maneuvers that move the puzzle pieces when and where they need to be. Their product quality is first rate, they have built and continue to build their distribution channels, having met with initial success in smaller retail venues. They have products in the pipeline, on the shelf, and in development that should sustain growth into the foreseeable future.We are on the verge of national and international retail success with the big box retailers and have ramped up production with a state of the art contract assembly line at Surefil.
Nothing is a sure thing, but I never thought I would find an opportunity this good at just the right time. Thanks to all the Mods, researchers, and frequent posters.
Best of luck to all.